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Iun's Withdrawal After Last Dose


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#511 invalidusername

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Posted 23 January 2019 - 12:32 PM

Im not sure if this is the iron i took yesterday or the fact that i noticed i only took 10mg lexapro instead of my 15mg - also yesterday. But i am having horrible anxiety again as i had this time yesterday. I'm at work but am only just holding out. Edge of panic and just don't know why? Trying to just accept it but very difficult while in the middle of it all... Palpitations, shakes and laboured breathing. Again. Not had this in such a long time...

#512 fishinghat

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Posted 23 January 2019 - 01:14 PM

If it is the low dose of Lexapro then it could take a couple days to calm down. Always hard to say what causes these times but in your situation it wouldn't take much to relapse.


#513 invalidusername

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Posted 23 January 2019 - 02:05 PM

Thanks Hat. There is nothing on the horizon that will have caused a spike. Perfectly normal day and week. Just out of nowhere and it is this that i blow out of proportion as i have no control over it and nothing i can do to calm it. Write today off and start again tomorrow i guess...

#514 invalidusername

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Posted 23 January 2019 - 04:21 PM

Sorry to harp on about this, but I finished work, and even went to the grocery store and there were no heightened symptoms per se, but I got home and things started to get worse... and are now a LOT worse.

 

I am shaking all over and absolutely petrified - worse than before. 

 

I really do think this could be an interaction with the iron yesterday and possibly again today (although I have not taken any more since). 

 

Just for info, I bought something called Active Iron which is a new super absorbent formula - trialed to be twice as absorbent as Iron sulfate and targets DMT-1?? 


#515 fishinghat

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Posted 23 January 2019 - 05:20 PM

Remember iron half life is from 6 hours to 3 days so it may take awhile. That is why iron toxicity is fairly common for those who take a daily iron supplement.  Just my opinion, if iron effects serotonin levels it may be wise to avoid it just incase. I must admit though it is more likely from the low dose of Lexapro you took. It may take a couple of days to stabilize and considering how much your body has been through it would take very little to upset things. It still think it will fade over the next few days..


#516 invalidusername

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Posted 23 January 2019 - 05:30 PM

That's what i was trying to find out about this supplement. I don't know exactly what it has in it, other than it being super absorbent. 

 

I know that I had an issue when I took liquid iron about 3 years ago. I was not suffering with anxiety for a long time then, but the doc kept me on the citalopram all the same. I started getting head zaps and feeling on edge - and that was when I was "normal". 

 

Think you are right that it is the low dose that has thrown me off. And if this low dose was prematurely absorbed like the above, then I could have had a very low dose. And yes, I am still very fragile with my progression at present. 

 

I put your faith in your diagnosis Hat. I have done well over the last 3-4 weeks, I just need to be careful. I did say I wasn't going to take any other pills... and look what happened!!


#517 fishinghat

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Posted 23 January 2019 - 05:47 PM

Hey IUN, you posted this a while back. Is this the incident you were talking about? It sounds like you were convinced at that time that the Citalopram was absorbed by the iron. Do you remember?

Posted by invalidusername on 25 November 2018 - 06:02 PM in Weaning Off Cymbalta
"I have experienced brain zaps before with the Citalopram. Every day when I forgot a dose, they would be there, and then when I started taking liquid iron at the same time I had a load because the iron was absorbing most of the Citalopram before it hit my liver!! Had to work that one out on my own... But strangely enough, aside from a very slight one here and there, I have not have any zaps at all coming off Duloxetine. "

By the way, that iron supplement you took, what was the mg of iron?

#518 invalidusername

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Posted 23 January 2019 - 05:54 PM

Yes - that was the one! Exactly.... the doctor was about to up the dose before I found that out.

 

This is what I bought - ferrous iron sulphate 14mg;

 

https://www.amazon.c...y/dp/B071DTT3BG

 

I can't find any more other than this....


#519 fishinghat

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Posted 23 January 2019 - 06:40 PM

Well 14 mg isn't a terribly high dose, especially for just the first dose. I am really thinking that the iron effected your serotonin level and in combination with the low dose Lexapro, well you just took a step backward.

#520 invalidusername

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Posted 23 January 2019 - 06:50 PM

Makes sense. 

 

It is for sure something out of kilter as there is nothing that would cause me to get that anxious. It is when I am not thinking and it is "just there", I know it has to be pill related. Either way, I'm not going near another pill other than my Lexapro for some time.

 

Anyone want some Iron supplements?? :)

 

Been talking to our Kathy on FB trying to help her forget about her anxious week before off to work, but she has done her bit for counselling me instead, bless 'er....


#521 gail

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Posted 23 January 2019 - 06:53 PM

My dear Scrat,

Having a rough time, but this time you know what's causing it. Can you believe what those so simple product can do to us?

A little way to go, and you'll be back to your young self. Lovage and lovage.

#522 invalidusername

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Posted 23 January 2019 - 07:04 PM

Lovely Gailage...

 

Thank you. I certainly hope things continue on the up! And yes, the smallest thing and we are in a right pickle!! Who'd have thought it right?! Really didn't think something like that could have had such a profound effect, but with the useful find by Hat, it does make sense. Its all commercial hype a lot of it. 

 

Hope you are doing well and are busy preparing more apple pies! So many things always making me think of you now! It's nice when that happens :)

 

Not that I need reminding of course!

 

Love love love


#523 invalidusername

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Posted 24 January 2019 - 08:54 AM

Woke early and without so much of a warning, anxiety has hit me like a brick wall. 

 

26 days without anything bad happening - I've been keeping so positive. 

 

Feel exactly like I did 5 weeks ago. Dizziness, nausea, fatigue and so scared. Regardless of what the low dose/iron has done, my natural anxiety defense has kicked in. I'm so scared.

 

My anxiety has always been about my continuing mental health, so setbacks are going to spiral, that is what makes me so scared, which in turn makes things worse.


#524 fishinghat

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Posted 24 January 2019 - 09:34 AM

"Its all commercial hype a lot of it. "

A very accurate statement for sure.

#525 gail

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Posted 24 January 2019 - 09:58 AM

Sweet Scrat,

And life continues to remind us that nothing is perfect! Life says //Don't look for perfection, this is not meant for these times//.

Could this have to do with the 5mg that you didn't take? I remember Hat saying that you could have a few days feeling off. Just knowing brings us a kind of peace.

You've been doing good with ups and downs, in case you don't remember. That morning anxiety has been hitting you on off. It will fade, just don't expect perfection.

What you are living is real tough. The morning anxiety is so paralising. And then when it's dance is over, it's over. Till the other dance. I just wish you could take a benzo, Gravol or Benadryl for this pain. Are you sure that you are allergic to Dramamine and dyphenhydramine?

I know that you are allergic to some antihistamine, but those two? Gravol is what we take for nausea and dizziness caused by motion sickness, it contains dimenhydrinate USP. Benadryl contains dyphenhydramine. As for Dramamine, I don't know where I took that name.

Could you look those two up for yourself and see if your body could take it. Hat has lots of research on this, you know where to find this library, can't remember the topic name.

Those two continue to save my sanity, in the morning. Alternating from one to the other.

Be strong Scratage, lovage, by the way, it's date squares for the moment!

#526 KathyInFL

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Posted 24 January 2019 - 10:03 AM

:)

 

Been talking to our Kathy on FB trying to help her forget about her anxious week before off to work, but she has done her bit for counselling me instead, bless 'er....

 

You are helping me more than you know, IUN! Just talking about non-mental non-medical things is so calming to me. I didn't wake up until 7:30am today, I just made myself get out of bed at 9:30am! My anxiety was/is there, but I didn't take a xanax. 


#527 invalidusername

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Posted 24 January 2019 - 10:50 AM

Hi Siddage,
 
Thank you for your kind words - your support is comforting. I am really working on my perfection - as you will see in previous posts when I have had mediocre days that I have just written them off and accepting they will not be perfect.
 
My issue came when I woke early - I saw the time and thought... "that's it, I'm not going to get back to sleep... I am back to where I started". I reach a point where I tip over, and this is why I have been shaking since I woke and fighting off the seizures that often follow. 
 
I am allergic to H1 antihistamine, and both dimenhydrinate  and dyphenhydramine are H1 antagonists, so I would have a reaction to it unfortunately. I was too worried to take a benzo - I am getting a real phobia of pills now, which is probably not a bad thing. 
 
Maybe date squares would help??
 
Much Lovage
 
Scrat

#528 invalidusername

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Posted 24 January 2019 - 10:53 AM

Kathy - so glad that I could help. Talking always helps me. And no Xanax - brilliant! Hope the rest of the day goes well for you...


#529 invalidusername

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Posted 24 January 2019 - 12:04 PM

"The FDA have issued statements in the past linking a definite side effect of increased anxiety when taking ferrous gluconate, ferrous fume rate and ferrous sulphate. The anxiety itself is harmless but horrible to endure. It is a rare side effect and less than 10% of people taking an iron supplement suffer from it"

 

(https://www.anxietyu...me-anxious.html)

 

Well that is reassuring - and I wouldn't say 10% is exactly "rare" for a side effect. Trying to substantiate this and so far have found that the FDA do not find ferrous sulfate safe nor effective. That much is true. The other claims on the above page seems to show that others certainly have side effects of anxiety/panic when taking iron supplements...

 

Hat - maybe you would know where to find the FDA statement??


#530 fishinghat

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Posted 24 January 2019 - 01:21 PM

I went to the FDA site and did a search for the key word combos...

iron anxiety
Ferrous sulphate anxiety
ferrous sulphate warning
and just ferrous sulphate
I found nothing that propose a link from iron in any form and anxiety.

#531 invalidusername

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Posted 24 January 2019 - 04:03 PM

No - I couldn't find anything directly related to anxiety, but there was a warning against ferrous sulfate tablets for labeling for decreasing efficiency with various meds - thyroid in particular. 

 

That said... there is clearly something odd for people to have had similar reactions, but as you say, given the smaller dose and everything else that is going through my system at present, nothing should come as a shock.

 

I managed half a days work I am glad to say. I really do not like cancelling work.

 

Home - fragile and very weak. Time to rest.


#532 invalidusername

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Posted 25 January 2019 - 10:28 AM

So the anxiety from yesterday seems to have reduced. That in itself is a big relief. What I am left with is my chronic adrenaline, but obviously it has spiked. I have been reading my previous posts from a couple of weeks ago, and it is still exactly the same. To summarise the symptoms;

 

  • tensing all over.. all the time - I acknowledge it and stop, but within second I am doing it again
  • headache and/or head fog - and always there in the morning
  • churning stomach - feeling of hunger, but no appetite
  • legs and arms shaking and twitching - occasional whole body jerk
  • sweating more than normal, yet feeling the cold worse?
  • very incredibly drained, which is the worst.

 

I want to do stuff, but I have zero energy. I am removing as much stress as possible, meditating, eating well, sleeping well (although waking still very tired). I can't exercise, and sitting around and resting is getting me down! 

 

Hat - I know I have asked about this before - and I clearly made a mistake with the iron, but having read everything I could on the site it seems that this is hardwired into my amygdala and hippocampus? So now at 6 weeks of 15mg Lexapro and a continued adrenergic state for 2 weeks, can I assume this is something I will have to sit out and wait to pass? Nothing more I can do??

 

Also confuses me why this suddenly came out of nowhere after 2 months withdrawal - could it not be the Lexapro?


#533 fishinghat

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Posted 25 January 2019 - 11:06 AM

"I assume this is something I will have to sit out and wait to pass? Nothing more I can do??"


A few choices...

Wait for it to pass
Up the dose of Lexapro to 20. If it is the Lexapro causing the anxiety it will get worse, if not the Lexapro then thangs should get better.
Lean more on the L-theanine

I really wish you could get some Clonidine as it is sooo good at controlling adrenaline.


#534 invalidusername

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Posted 25 January 2019 - 11:19 AM

Thanks for response Hat.

 

1 - waiting for it to pass I worry will only cause a circle of being anxious about the condition, although there have been better days in the last 2 weeks

2 - wanted to hold out for 3 months if I can, but it is an option for sure

3 - i need to know more on l-theanine, and obviously worried about taking any more tablets!

4 - see above!! Although if not an H1 antagonist, they might not cause a problem.

 

but to be correct in this - these symptoms are for sure a common cymbalta withdrawal??


#535 fishinghat

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Posted 25 January 2019 - 11:27 AM

"- see above!! Although if not an H1 antagonist, they might not cause a problem"

It is not an antihistamine. It is an alpha adrenergic agonist. It tells the adrenaline receptors in the frontal lobes that there is too much adrenaline in the blood stream and production must be reduced. It reacts with adrenaline receptors only.

"these symptoms are for sure a common cymbalta withdrawal??"

For sure. Usually 5 to 8 months to begin clearing up after your last dose BUT the Lexapro should be helping more than this by now.

#536 fishinghat

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Posted 25 January 2019 - 11:33 AM

FYI


https://www.ehealthm...exapro/anxiety/
59,014 people reported to have side effects when taking Lexapro.
Among them, 4,802 people (8.14%) have Anxiety

Top other side effects:
1. Pain: 1,703 people, 35.46%
2. Fatigue (feeling of tiredness): 970 people, 20.20%
3. Nausea (feeling of having an urge to vomit): 962 people, 20.03%
4. Insomnia (sleeplessness): 929 people, 19.35%
5. Injury: 887 people, 18.47%
6. Breathing Difficulty: 769 people, 16.01%
7. Headache (pain in head): 764 people, 15.91%
8. Dizziness: 755 people, 15.72%
9. Weakness: 754 people, 15.70%
10. Emotional Distress: 747 people, 15.56%


#537 invalidusername

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Posted 25 January 2019 - 01:08 PM

Thanks ever so Hat.

 

I have had a quick read up and I can see that the alpha adrenergic receptors are targeted by the norepinphrine. So am I right in thinking that this is all a byproduct of my brain having a hard time trying to balance the norepinephrine... and overstimulating the receptors, which then release too much adrenaline into the blood stream?

 

So my question is therefore, if I opt for the Clonidine, will this confuse the brain further? Or is it a case that the Clonidine will balance the levels WHILST the brain is still learning the balance of neopinephrine?

 

What I don't want to do is interfere with the process of the brain getting the balance correct - although any relief would be welcomed at the moment!


#538 fishinghat

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Posted 25 January 2019 - 02:00 PM

OK, here goes. The alpha 2 adrenergic receptors in the frontal lobes are sensitive to the level of norepinephrine on the blood. You are right. This area of the brain only has a sympathetic nerve going to the adrenal gland. The greater these receptors are stimulated the frontal lobes interpret as having more norepinephrine in the blood and it therefore reduces the signal to the adrenal gland to produce norepinephrine. Clonidine being an alpha 2 agonist therefore stimulates these alpha 2 adrenergic receptors just like norepinephrine. The frontal lobe thinks "Oh shoot, We have too much circulating norepinephrine in the blood so I better slow the signal down going to the adrenal gland and reduce the production of norepinephrine."

By the way the alpha 2 adrenergic receptors are also stimulated by adrenaline as well. Remember that when norepinephrine is high then adrenaline production will be high as well. Clonidine fools the brain into thinking both are two high and production needs to slow.


#539 fishinghat

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Posted 25 January 2019 - 03:05 PM

You know, something you may try is this N=Acetylcysteine at 500 or 600 mg twice a day. I have been impressed with its help. Not a huge improvement but a consistent and noticeable improvement. I notice some relief starting around an hour after taking it and it lasts for about 3 or 4 hours.


#540 invalidusername

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Posted 25 January 2019 - 04:46 PM

Think I followed your explanation there, and despite going to an nth degree with the details, it was worth it!

 

I had forgotten about the NAC that you were trying. I think that is a really good idea. Having read all the bumpf last week when we were discussing, it does seem relatively safe. Might be wise to start on a low dose just in case my stupid system decides to throw a spanner in the works. 

 

Will grin and bear through this weekend so make sure all the iron and/or low dose of Lexapro is dealt with, and then I shall investigate further and report back.

 

Thanks again.





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