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Weaning Off My Last 2Mg


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#121 Vinpin

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Posted 14 May 2019 - 08:33 AM

Update on me:

 

Four weeks clear into 2 beads a day (1 bead every 12 hours) .... and I would say I am just "so-so". Week 3 was still pretty bad, but Week 4 was better. Interestingly, was away from home Thurs-Sun last week (week 4) for a niece's graduation in South Dakota, and I was doing fairly well up there. Then, back at home, awoke yesterday - and I was back to the light-headedness and woozy feelings, along with a headache that moved around to different parts of my head. Additionally, I'm feeling a lot of anxiety and nervousness throughout my body.

 

I've decided to go even slower in my tapering process. I want to have at least four straight weeks of no or minimal symptoms before I make the next bead change. Also, I am favoring going with 1 bead every 16 hours for my next change, instead of straight to 1 bead per day.....

 

 

Questions:

  1.  I find that when I am take 0.5mg of Alprazolam it helps with just about all the symptoms - and that's really great. During this 2 bead stint, I decided to take two 0.5 mg tablets per day (1 tablet every 12 hours), instead of 1 tablet per day - so I am relying on it more. My question is - since this is an addictive drug, how concerned should I be that this increase will result in a more difficult withdrawal from the Alprazolam at some point in the future?

      2.  How common is it for Cymbalta withdrawal symptoms to subside for a week or so and then re-emerge? I'm discouraged that this week (week 5 on two beads) isn't as good as last (week 4 on two beads).... but is this "par for the course" at this stage of the game?

 

Thanks all,

 

-Vinpin

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#122 fishinghat

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Posted 14 May 2019 - 10:20 AM

1. At that low dose there can be significant withdrawal BUT there are methods to wean off with little to no withdrawal. I have dome that several times. Certainly easier than Cymbalta.

2. Reoccurrence is par for the course. With tine the downs periods will be shorter and the up periods will be longer. Once comfortably stable you can go to 1 bead a day. Its all about time and patience.

#123 Vinpin

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Posted 14 May 2019 - 02:02 PM

Thanks, FH. :rolleyes:

 

Since the Alprazolam withdrawal is manageable, do you recommend that I go back to taking one 0.5mg tablet of Alprazolam twice daily? Taking it twice a day isn't reckless or unsafe at this difficult stage, correct? 

 

I'm just so fearful of putting prescription meds in my body these days ..... all due to this life altering experience coming off the Duloxetine. However, I have been super nervous and jittery the last couple of days - I think the Alprazolam would be helpful.....

 

-Vinpin


#124 fishinghat

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Posted 14 May 2019 - 02:18 PM

It is not unsafe or unwise. If you get stable try to cut back to 1 tablet a day before you are on it too long. Remember that for most people they get use to it within 4 weeks or so and it takes a higher dosage to have the same effect.

#125 invalidusername

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Posted 14 May 2019 - 03:56 PM

Sorry, IUN - have been absent from the forum for a couple of weeks ....

 

Not sure what you mean by "frequency loss" - can you clarify?

 

-Vinpin

 

Vin - what I meant by that is whether you had any selective loss of hearing, eg, low end, high end, mid frequencies (peoples voices)?


#126 Vinpin

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Posted 14 May 2019 - 10:18 PM

Thanks FH.

 

IUN: In general, I have mild-to-moderate hearing loss in low frequencies, severe loss in middle frequencies, and profound loss in the high frequencies - with deafness in the highest frequencies that are typically beyond conversations (e.g, birds chirping....). I don't perceive any variance in hearing loss changes by frequency range when the brain zaps occur and then morph into tinnitus. But in general, it is definitely more difficult to hear overall when the "after zap" tinnitus takes place....

 

-Vinpin


#127 invalidusername

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Posted 16 May 2019 - 04:28 PM

Interesting... 

 

I have also just started having something similar, but milder, in the last few days. Sort of like when a loud explosion goes off and you have the dulled hearing and tinnitus. It is unlike lack of pressure as I get that during blood tests and there is no tinnitus with that. With tinnitus it is clear nerve based, but I am trying to understand how to auditory nerve might cause that rather than the inner ear. Serotonin levels do affect parts of the ear however, which contribute to  dizziness, so it is very plausible, but I just cannot find any information anywhere. I don't like not knowing what is going on!!


#128 fishinghat

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Posted 16 May 2019 - 04:50 PM

I have read several papers that describe serotonins influence on the Vestibular system.

#129 invalidusername

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Posted 16 May 2019 - 05:14 PM

Quite, but this is all to do with balance and so forth, and has no effect on perception of sound. That is the bit that is still the unknown...


#130 fishinghat

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Posted 17 May 2019 - 09:17 AM

https://www.ncbi.nlm...les/PMC4237057/

I think you will find this article may help clarify your questions about serotonin's role in the perception of sound. Let me kn ow what you think.

#131 Vinpin

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Posted 17 May 2019 - 01:22 PM

FH - excellent article, and very useful for me to know that Duloxetine (even though not, yet, on a list of ototoxic drugs .....), could very well have exacerbated an imbalance of neurotransmitter chemicals (serotonin) and, accordingly, my ongoing tinnitus issues. The connection I've personally found with the brain zaps and the resultant tinnitus makes me even more suspicious that Duloxetine is a culprit - again, despite not being on a list of ototoxic drugs.

 

Even more interestingly to me .... I'm even more convinced that my hyperacusis (my perception of sound as too loud and distorted, even though it is not) is resultant from the long term, 12 years use of Duloxetine. The paper's authors focused on tinnitus - undoubtedly because it is a more common audio-logic issue .... but it doesn't seem to be much of reach that Duloxetine's altering of my neurotransmitter chemistry could have caused my hyperacusis. I've had hearing loss my entire adult life .... it started way before I began Duloxetine. BUT ...... the hyperacusis began about 7 years ago, and reached a peak about 6 years ago, to the point were I became disabled from my occupation. I was on the Duloxetine for a full 6 years before the Hyperacusis reached a crescendo and disabled me.

 

During my intense withdrawal stage currently, my hyperacusis is currently at an all-time high. When I'm in the midst of a "bad spell" from the Dulox withdrawal, it is incredible how intense the hyperacusis can be. A low volume sound from a whole other room in my home can startle me. My spouse must speak softly, clearly and close enough to me so my lip-reading can assist. My hearing loss per se has not worsened during the my time on Duloxetine, but the Tinnitus and particularly my Hyperacusis certainly has......

 

Unfortunately, the prospects of establishing a scientific link between Dulox & Hyperacusis are very, very dim. Not only because Dulox is not on a list of otologic drugs, but also because there is not enough interest in Hyperacusis to fund a study ... nor are there enough test subjects with Hyperacusis to generate a sufficient sample size for a research study.

 

-Vinpin


#132 fishinghat

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Posted 17 May 2019 - 01:36 PM

While subjective, our members have well established that Cymbalta withdrawal causes hypersensitivity of the nervous system. Members have consistently listed that tinnitus, arthritis, neuropathy, migraines, and many more conditions that were present before Cymbalta where greatly heightened during withdrawal. I think your opinion that this is Cymbalta related is probably correct.

#133 Vinpin

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Posted 17 May 2019 - 01:37 PM

Well, it's been a horrific week - unexpectedly so, since the two prior weeks were decent enough. Not sure what changed - was still on one bead every 12 hours. Been at that for almost 5 weeks now.

 

Besides having all the side-effects we've all documented and suffered through - I couldn't believe how intense my feeling of "losing it" was last night. I felt somewhat light-headed again, but more specifically, I was nervous as hell - full blown with trembling, and felt as though I was going through a nervous breakdown or panic attack (not sure of the difference....). I was alone last night too .... so it was very scary.....

 

Besides my regular 7pm bead, I took another at 9:30pm and 0.5mg Alprazolam as well, just to calm down. I was tired enough to fall asleep at 11 .... but woke up at 7am with a very, very intense headache in the front portion of my head. I decided to take 2 beads instead of my regular single bead at 7am and another Alprazolam. It all helped somewhat, but not sure what tonight brings. Also,  I've succumbed to the realization that my body is not ready for 2 beads a day, and I'm going back to at least 3 beads a day (1 every 8 hours). If that does't get me stable in a few days, then back up to 4 beads. Whatever it takes to stabilize .... that seems more important now that coming off this damn poison .....

 

I can't keep living like this. I'm so desperate, would even consider an in or outpatient drug detox facility, if I knew a good one. I realize they'll just up my Duloxetine and/or put me on a cross-taper, plus maybe valium or some other drug to numb my senses ... but I'm so desperate now. Its horrible that I have no good medical treatment option available .......

 

-Vinpin


#134 fishinghat

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Posted 17 May 2019 - 02:14 PM

If you have to go back to 3 beads or 4 beads to stabilize that is Ok. You are so close don't give up now. You have millions of nerve cells that are still covering from the earlier Cymbalta withdrawal. If you are stable at 3 or 4 beads for a couple months that is OK. It gives time for your nerves to heal further.

#135 Vinpin

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Posted 17 May 2019 - 02:31 PM

Encouraging to hear .... thanks FH. I'm not sure I could be achieving all my progress without your input ........... :rolleyes:


#136 invalidusername

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Posted 17 May 2019 - 04:29 PM

Interesting paper, but still doesn't cover the role of serotonin in relation to the auditory system, other than the fact that it is party to its neurological make up, along with the other usual suspects of the amino family. The issue is that glutamine could easily be effected along the same lines and have influence rather than the serotonin, as we know that when one amino is balancing out, the others will join in the act of re-establishing the "norm". It really is a can of worms, and there just isn't the call for it. As the paper opens with... so very few studies. The sole reason being its potential recognition. Authors want widespread recognition and with very little going on in this particular area, funding won't be granted.
 
Sorry to hear about issues of late Vin. I don't think a label will help none too much with what is occuring, but a nervous breakdown is a term usually used to cover an amalgam of conditions (depression, stress, panic etc) which causes the person to suffer to a degree that life is just not sustainable as it once was. Sounds like you had an anxiety attack. These generally have such an intense feeling of continued nervousness which can include shaking. An attack can last quite some time, whereas a panic attack will include a lot of sweating, fast heart rate, palpitations, but generally only last a few minutes at most. I think you are right in maintining stablility for now, but you are such a rare case with this stuff. I don't know what a detox place would do. 
 
As you know, I have quickly become anti-meds given the nightmare I've had over the last 8 months. Meds can help in some circumstances, but the use of psychotropic meds has just got out of hand. When prozac was marketed, it was 6-9 months treatment, but who is to argue when it does further? Doctors want you well, so they throw more pills, pharma's want more money so they develop more ways of numbing the issues rather than fix them. It is a joke. At least with natural meds you can switch doses and treatments with nothing like the side effects and withdrawals that meds bring...

#137 fishinghat

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Posted 17 May 2019 - 05:16 PM

"It really is a can of worms, and there just isn't the call for it. As the paper opens with... so very few studies."

Truly spoken.



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