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Third Time Withdrawal A Charm?


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#91 kmrekl217

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Posted 04 June 2019 - 04:11 PM

It's been a decent week or so. Withdrawal symptoms have not been bad at all (metallic taste, tingly feet, brain whooshes). Anxiety is there, but I'm managing okay. Doing a lot of mindfulness meditation.

 

I have been working hard to get healthier in my thinking, too. It's a process, but I'm making progress. Really recommend folks here listen to Oprah and Eckhart Tolle's podcast, A New Earth. 


#92 invalidusername

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Posted 04 June 2019 - 06:05 PM

Glad to hear you are doing well. I meant to follow up with this from Tolle after re-reading The Power of Now.

 

For those interested, I have found the podcasts for download - all 10 - here;

 

https://archive.org/...diobook_Podcast

 

Thanks kmrekl


#93 gail

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Posted 04 June 2019 - 07:11 PM

KM,

Good for you. Yes, Toll has been one of my favorite books. Real good during withdrawal to read. It helped me. Thanks for mentioning it.

IUN, thanks for the link. Worth listening.

#94 kmrekl217

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Posted 06 June 2019 - 05:14 PM

I don't have a lot of people in my day-to-day life. One thing I'm working on is making more local friends. It's hard making friends as an adult. I've isolated for so long. The withdrawal is the time when I need social support the most and don't really have any that's local. I am impressed that I'm doing it mostly on my own. But I want to be brave enough to seek out connection. If anyone has any tips (Meetup and Bumble haven't worked)  let me know. 


#95 invalidusername

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Posted 07 June 2019 - 05:12 PM

The further you get into mental health, the more you realise how little people understand. My wife being agoraphobic is far more a blessing than a curse. She is the only person that truly understands... that is local! Of course - everyone here understand far better than anyone - professionals included. It can be very tough and people do indeed feel very alone. You are doing exceptionally well if you have been mostly a solitary goer with all this.


#96 kmrekl217

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Posted 21 June 2019 - 06:30 AM

Soooo anxious lately. Only a few more days at 9 mg. Then down to 6 mg. Withdrawal symptoms have been manageable aside from the anxiety. I wake up with a pounding heart some mornings. I get anxious and have trouble calming down about things that aren't that big of a deal. Before I went on antidepressants 18 years ago (God, I can't believe it's been that long--so much anger about being on them for so long) I was a bit anxious, but nothing like this. Breathing helps. Writing about it helps. Hoping that with mindfulness meditation, relaxation breathing, and writing, I will be able to manage anxiety. 


#97 gail

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Posted 21 June 2019 - 06:53 AM

Km,

That's three mgs down in one shot, brave lady. About 27 beads in one shot. Of course, the choice is yours. You can always go back up if the symptoms are to rough to manage. As you go down, expect the anxiety to go up. I hope you got something to help for that. Bonne chance, love!

#98 invalidusername

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Posted 21 June 2019 - 05:04 PM

Mindfulness is great for anxiety - difficult for depression in my experience though. 

 

L-theanine help a lot of people in place of always reaching for the Xanax/Valium. I rarely use benzos now - and on bad days I'm reach for my Kratom. I try to do as much as I can without these aids so I can see how well I am dealing with it. But sometimes... it of course can get to much - and in these times you have my every sympathy.


#99 kmrekl217

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Posted 26 June 2019 - 05:21 PM

My anxiety has been so bad recently that I'm considering stopping my taper. I meet with my psychiatrist on Friday. I'm afraid I'll cave when he tries to convince me to keep going with the taper. 

 

Anxiety shouldn't be a thing that I have to fight off nearly every second of the day about mundane things. I just can't live like this. I wanted so badly to be free of meds. Especially the last few days I'm just not sure I'm someone who CAN live a quality life without medication. 

 

I realize this is such a switch from what I've been saying all along. It's just when you wake up day after day with a racing heart, worried about literally everything and spend all day trying to manage the exploding feeling in your chest and zooming thoughts it becomes so hard to justify why I am even doing this taper.


#100 fishinghat

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Posted 26 June 2019 - 05:33 PM

That constant daily fight with anxiety lasted months for me even after the withdrawal. There are medications that have no withdrawal that can help. Have we already discussed those. Clonidine and hydroxyzine. There are also some supplements.

If the anxiety is that constant I would say stay at the level you are at until you feel better and then continue weaning.

#101 invalidusername

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Posted 26 June 2019 - 06:11 PM

Kmrek - you have so much of my sympathy here. Your words describe your torment well. The only advice I can offer you is to try to remember as best you can that this anxiety is not you; it is a very tired brain. The brain does adapt, this is without doubt; it is the speed at which it adapts that is always at question. When people go on antidepressants, it is a boost for what the brain can do on its own given time. I rue the day that I was ever convinced to start taking them.

 

I really am with you on whether or not you can live a life without them though. There is a long struggle ahead and even then you are in a place where you cannot convince yourself if all that work would be the best thing. I am not going to try and convince you either way.

 

I am also at a crossroads with my own medication. Having had so many different meds pumped through my system, I have also become over sensitive both physically and mentally. Each feed off each other. It might be that I have to consider "something" to aid me to come off them, but again, I know it is going to be such a struggle, but staying where I am is also not an option. Whilst my mood isn't directly in trouble at present dose, my physical symptoms are, and it is THAT which causes anxiety/depression. 

 

Please feel free to rant away - I am here to listen... and if we can support each other that way, even in the slightest, then all the better :)


#102 kmrekl217

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Posted 28 June 2019 - 10:43 AM

Going back on 30 mg of Cymbalta. Boy do I have feelings about it. I wan to be positive, so I'll say that hopefully this will help anxiety. 


#103 fishinghat

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Posted 28 June 2019 - 11:06 AM

If you are considering going up on the Cymbalta to 30 I would suggest just trying to go up a few beads first. It may be enough to help.


#104 invalidusername

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Posted 28 June 2019 - 03:52 PM

100% agree with Hat here. Few beads may well hit the spot. You are also likely to get unwanted effects of going up too much at once.

 

Never easy I know....


#105 kmrekl217

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Posted 30 June 2019 - 05:44 PM

I've been taking 12 mg of Effexor, from compound pharmacy that I still have, the last two days, and the anxiety is much more manageable than at 9 mg or 6 mg. It's a lot worse in the mornings-- I wake up flooded with every worry I have in my life. I have, granted, felt off. Some brain fog. But I don't feel so on edge with anxiety at least.

 

I haven't gone yet to the regular pharmacy to pick up the 30 mg of Cymbalta. The other day I felt resigned to it, and now I don't want to go up that high nor switch drugs (as similar as they are). 


#106 invalidusername

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Posted 30 June 2019 - 07:12 PM

Glad that you do not feel the need to go back to 30mg. Better that you used the Effexor to take the edge off. Anxiety always will be worse in the mornings, and is often the last part of the puzzle to be put in place. Given that the first hour of the day can generally set you up for the rest of the waking time, it is a real sod. 

 

So what's the plan now? Stabalise on the current Cymbalta level with the 12mg Effexor and continue the taper?


#107 kmrekl217

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Posted 30 June 2019 - 11:27 PM

Glad that you do not feel the need to go back to 30mg. Better that you used the Effexor to take the edge off. Anxiety always will be worse in the mornings, and is often the last part of the puzzle to be put in place. Given that the first hour of the day can generally set you up for the rest of the waking time, it is a real sod. 

 

So what's the plan now? Stabalise on the current Cymbalta level with the 12mg Effexor and continue the taper?

 

I haven't taken any Cymbalta yet. I just upped my Effexor dose only my own from 6 mg to 12 mg to be less anxious (basically I just take two of the compounded capsules). I'm conflicted about switching from Effexor back to Cymbalta and staying at 30 mg of Cymbalta (not tapering anymore). 

 

I really don't know what I want to do. I hate that there's no clear answer. I've had this mind for decades, this personality, these moods for decades and I still don't know what's mental illness, what's withdrawal, what's medication, and what's just life circumstances. Maybe I'm just anxious because I have so much going on in my life. Maybe it's actually chemical. I have no freaking clue, and no one else knows for sure either. I'm sick of playing this game with medication or no medication or less medication. I don't even know what normal is. I've been on meds since I was a teen. I've been anxious before in my life but never this acute. What that says I'm not so sure. 


#108 invalidusername

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Posted 01 July 2019 - 09:03 AM

My goodness - we are right in the same boat here. Not knowing which meds to take, how much to take, whether to take them... am I feeling side effects, withdrawal... or just my own issues?

 

This is why I am trying to stay still. I have had too many pills go round my system and it has for sure had an impact. I think this is what you need to do for now. Find somewhere you are most stable and just sit there and let things settle. As difficult as that might seem. As long as you do not have any issues taking both AD's together - the only issue is serotonin syndrome, but at the current levels you should be fine.


#109 fishinghat

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Posted 01 July 2019 - 09:09 AM

kmrek, you may still yet improve some more from the increase in Effexor.


#110 kmrekl217

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Posted 03 July 2019 - 09:47 PM

Going with that plan for now. 12 mg of Effexor. 

 

I always have been a bit anxious, but it's actually been worse since going on meds as a teen. I wish I could go back in time and remember exactly when I really started having acute anxiety. The past is so hazy now. I'm not completely convinced that I can manage without meds, but I really want to try. Going much slower with the taper, I am hoping, will work. I just can't be disappointed when once off Effexor completely, I have very bad anxiety. But that's looking like a ways away. I think it might be better to take the rest of the year or maybe longer to get off this drug. 


#111 kmrekl217

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Posted 03 July 2019 - 09:52 PM

My goodness - we are right in the same boat here. Not knowing which meds to take, how much to take, whether to take them... am I feeling side effects, withdrawal... or just my own issues?

 

This is why I am trying to stay still. I have had too many pills go round my system and it has for sure had an impact. I think this is what you need to do for now. Find somewhere you are most stable and just sit there and let things settle. As difficult as that might seem. As long as you do not have any issues taking both AD's together - the only issue is serotonin syndrome, but at the current levels you should be fine.

Only taking Effexor. No Cymbalta : ) Never went back to Cymbalta, though that was supposed to be what I did. I just couldn't go through with it.

 

In some ways psychiatry is a very irresponsible discipline coupled with the fact that it relies on the very unscrupulous pharmaceutical industry. Of course a system of medicine beholden to greedy drug companies is going to be problematic. We as patients have to be our own damn scientists, taking data, reporting it to our doctors for them to interpret. It's so flawed. I didn't go to medical school, and while I would like to think I know my mind and my body, someone else can interpret my emotions and thoughts totally differently than I do and advise things that turn out to be damaging. Sort of ranting here, but doesn't it make you so angry? Sometimes I feel like I've started to gaslight myself, unsure what I think and feel is actually caused by what I think it is.


#112 invalidusername

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Posted 05 July 2019 - 09:12 AM

So well put kmrekl. It IS so flawed - in every possible way.And of course, it makes me so angry. All I can do is look out for myself and when those with the prescription pad do not believe/understand me, it only makes it worse. But who better is there to understand the way I feel and know what I need outside of myself?


#113 kmrekl217

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Posted 05 July 2019 - 03:10 PM

So well put kmrekl. It IS so flawed - in every possible way.And of course, it makes me so angry. All I can do is look out for myself and when those with the prescription pad do not believe/understand me, it only makes it worse. But who better is there to understand the way I feel and know what I need outside of myself?

In an ideal world, we'd find psychiatrists who have also experienced mood disorders and tried to wean off medication. I can dream!


#114 invalidusername

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Posted 05 July 2019 - 03:19 PM

You'd be surprised just how many have. Hat knows the statistics... but it is a lot more than you'd think.

 

Still doesn't help why we don't find them ourselves!


#115 fishinghat

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Posted 05 July 2019 - 03:40 PM

The second article is very interesting.

Lisa J. Merlo, Supachoke Singhakant, Simone M. Cummings, Linda B. Cottler. Reasons for Misuse of Prescription Medication Among Physicians Undergoing Monitoring by a Physician Health Program. Journal of Addiction Medicine, 2013; 7 (5): 349 DOI: 10.1097/ADM.0b013e31829da074
"69 percent of the doctors had abused prescription drugs in addition to alcohol and illicit drugs."
"Some doctors used the drugs to gain relief from anxiety or depression, while others used them to relieve stress related to their professional or personal life."

https://www.thedaily...alking-about-it
American Doctors Are Killing Themselves and No One Is Talking About It


#116 invalidusername

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Posted 07 July 2019 - 10:01 AM

Interesting, but that second link has some very graphical references to suicide.

 

Just a heads up.


#117 kmrekl217

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Posted 10 July 2019 - 12:22 PM

Anxiety is still not wonderful, but it's better at 12 mg than it was at 6. At this point, I'd be fine with going on another medication for anxiety and depression. I just want to get off the Effexor/Cymbalta family of drugs. 


#118 fishinghat

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Posted 10 July 2019 - 02:15 PM

If you want to consider that Kmrek I would recommend Zoloft, Lexapro or Prozac. The problem is that it takes 4 to 8 weeks for one to kick in so the dr has to take a wild guess on how much to start with and hope it isn't overkill.


#119 invalidusername

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Posted 10 July 2019 - 02:45 PM

Given the potential for sensitivity, my choice would be Prozac for the protracted half life. Obviously I am going to be biased towards Lexapro *spits*. That is a very powerful drug and difficult to reduce when it comes to withdrawal with water titration... as you know Hat. 

 

I really just don't want anyone to end up with the sensitivity that I now have, so again please proceed with caution Kmrekl...

 

So many people aren't given the facts and thus cannot think these things all the way through - not saying you are one Kmrekl as you do understand. But if the doctor gave you medicine for your arm and he said it might break it, you may loose use of it certain hours of the day, it might itch chronically and it might seem as though it is not there - but it might also work. Just because it is the brain, it is thought of differently. These things need context...


#120 fishinghat

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Posted 10 July 2019 - 03:47 PM

Prozac           120 hrs

Lexapro           30 hrs

Zoloft               24 hrs





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