Jump to content



Photo

Feeling Suicidal. Not Sure If I Have Any Options Left.


  • Please log in to reply
1589 replies to this topic

#1501 ForLyla

ForLyla

    Like a Family Member

  • Active Members
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 662 posts
  • LocationToronto
  • why_joining:
    It's really difficult finding support for conditions like this. There's really nothing at a local level so the internet is pretty much it.

Posted 24 July 2020 - 06:18 AM

I wish it were the case but I woke up in the middle of the night and knew I was back in a serious wave! The best windows always follow with the worst waves. I'm not sure if it was something I did. I had some cinnamon tea and zinc carsonine before bed. I cant imagine that being it though, probably just natural progression of withdrawal. It's strange the way its occurring right now. It seems like its 50/50. One good day and one bad day. I wouldnt be surprised if I have a good day tomorrow. I'm also extremely sensitive to everything right now. It feels like I've lost all my headway. I could have sworn that just a little bit of honey threw me into my last bad wave.

#1502 fishinghat

fishinghat

    Site Partners

  • Active Members
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 12,312 posts
  • LocationMissouri

Posted 24 July 2020 - 08:12 AM

As you probably know Zinc can cause severe anxiety. It can also build up in the body to heightened levels.  Zinc is not only common in the supplements but also in denture creams, dandruff shampoo and others. A number of class action suits are being pursued against the latter two products for causing severe bouts of anxiety. Zinc has a half life of 47 hours so can build up to excessive levels with time. The RDA for Zinc is 8 mg/day for women. May I ask your dosage?

 

Zinc also competes with copper, iron, and magnesium.

 

Zinc 
 
High dose zinc supplementation induces hippocampal zinc deficiency and memory impairment with inhibition of BDNF signaling.
 
Zinc induces motor neuron death via a selective inhibition of brain-derived neurotrophic factor activity.
 
Zinc treatment induces cortical brain-derived neurotrophic factor gene expression.
We now report that chronic treatment with zinc induced an increase in cortical but not hippocampal BDNF.

#1503 ForLyla

ForLyla

    Like a Family Member

  • Active Members
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 662 posts
  • LocationToronto
  • why_joining:
    It's really difficult finding support for conditions like this. There's really nothing at a local level so the internet is pretty much it.

Posted 24 July 2020 - 09:09 AM

Zinc carsonine is supposed to be really good for digestive issues. I took 20mg last night. That could be it I guess, although I felt fine taking it before this stupid setback hit. I'll stay off it for now and just take probiotics sparingly. I think the probiotics work a lot better for my reflux anyway.

If it was the zinc, I hope that it wouldnt have set me back for too long. This withdrawal thing is so strange. When you go to sleep at night, it's a coin toss how you're going to feel the next morning. When I'm in a window I wish I could just stay awake forever, that way I wouldnt have to worry about sleep sending me back into a wave!

#1504 fishinghat

fishinghat

    Site Partners

  • Active Members
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 12,312 posts
  • LocationMissouri

Posted 24 July 2020 - 11:02 AM

It is good for the digestive system, just may not be good for anxiety.  Does your Zinc Zinc carsonine say how much of it is zinc and how much is  carsonine?


#1505 invalidusername

invalidusername

    Site Partners

  • Site Supporter
  • 5,192 posts
  • LocationKent, UK

Posted 24 July 2020 - 01:49 PM

When I'm in a window I wish I could just stay awake forever, that way I wouldnt have to worry about sleep sending me back into a wave!

 

The amount of times I have thought the exact same thing...


#1506 ForLyla

ForLyla

    Like a Family Member

  • Active Members
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 662 posts
  • LocationToronto
  • why_joining:
    It's really difficult finding support for conditions like this. There's really nothing at a local level so the internet is pretty much it.

Posted 26 July 2020 - 06:54 PM

Do you guys know if histamine intolerance and/or mast cell activation is caused by cymbalta?

Having a really rough day. Wondering if it might be the probiotics, even though they really help me with my reflux. I'm way more sensitive to everything since having my withdrawal meltdown. I hate how long it takes to recover from these things but its somewhat nice to know that I'm never doing anything that affects the absorption of cymbalta again.

#1507 ForLyla

ForLyla

    Like a Family Member

  • Active Members
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 662 posts
  • LocationToronto
  • why_joining:
    It's really difficult finding support for conditions like this. There's really nothing at a local level so the internet is pretty much it.

Posted 27 July 2020 - 05:38 AM

Ok so made an important discovery. I don't think my insane setback was caused by the ppi and antibiotics after all. At least not solely. I thought maybe it was the nasal decongestant I was taking but I'm learning that it was likely the probiotics. I've been in a terrible state the last couple days since I started the probiotics again. All of a sudden, I also feel faint again. Also feeling insanely agitated. However, they're the only things that make my reflux go away.

If we stay on cymbalta and yet have it so nothing sets us back or affects absorption, does this nervous system syndrome ever go away? I've always taken ppi's or something that sets me back so I never fully recover. I'm wondering if I just leave it for a year and be extra safe that maybe I can resume my taper and take another few years to get off this poison. By then I'll probably be dead from throat cancer but oh well!

#1508 fishinghat

fishinghat

    Site Partners

  • Active Members
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 12,312 posts
  • LocationMissouri

Posted 27 July 2020 - 08:11 AM

No indication that Cymbalta causes histamine intolerance and considering it does not react with histamines or the receptors it is doubtful. Of course sibo is a common source of histamine intolerance. 

 

While there is no published link between Cymbalta and Mast Cell Activation Disorders the complexity of allergies and compounds that each person has in there system as well as genetics it can't be ruled out.


#1509 invalidusername

invalidusername

    Site Partners

  • Site Supporter
  • 5,192 posts
  • LocationKent, UK

Posted 27 July 2020 - 09:28 AM

Sorry - aside from the above, just a quick update to say that the wife is now on her PPI every other day and work just as well as every day.

 

She has also now decided to start her Zoloft - her decision as her depression has got a lot worse. She agreed to let me get the PPI dose down before starting, so I am hoping that will help given that the dose is now the equivalent of 10mg/day.

 

Looked online and there were a couple of studies that showed levels to be more or less comparable taking every other day as it was every day.


#1510 ForLyla

ForLyla

    Like a Family Member

  • Active Members
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 662 posts
  • LocationToronto
  • why_joining:
    It's really difficult finding support for conditions like this. There's really nothing at a local level so the internet is pretty much it.

Posted 27 July 2020 - 04:55 PM

If she has unexplained depression, I really think fungal and/or intestinal overgrowth could be it. Histamine intolerance will also cause severe anxiety.

#1511 invalidusername

invalidusername

    Site Partners

  • Site Supporter
  • 5,192 posts
  • LocationKent, UK

Posted 27 July 2020 - 06:07 PM

The depression is explainable - no question, but the anxiety not so.

 

I really wanted to follow up with some of these tests, but the wife has just had enough and insisted on giving the Zoloft a go. 

 

But that said, this doesn't sort the GI issues... but one thing at a time. We'll have to wait and see what the Zoloft does and then look into the stomach further.


#1512 fishinghat

fishinghat

    Site Partners

  • Active Members
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 12,312 posts
  • LocationMissouri

Posted 28 July 2020 - 08:27 AM

Zoloft has been studied in relation to treating IBS with some sign of success. It has been shown to highly control the serotonin in the digestive system as well so maybe this will be a win for her.


#1513 ForLyla

ForLyla

    Like a Family Member

  • Active Members
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 662 posts
  • LocationToronto
  • why_joining:
    It's really difficult finding support for conditions like this. There's really nothing at a local level so the internet is pretty much it.

Posted 28 July 2020 - 09:19 AM

So yup definitely the probiotics. No doubt that the ppi etc were bad news for my most recent setback but the faint feeling and all the scary stuff was strange as that's never happened before with ppi's or antibiotics. So yes, I learned that it's all due to the probiotics. Since I started the probiotics again, the fainting feeling and scary symptoms have come back. I only took them for 3 days and stopped on Sunday so hopefully this wont last very long. I wonder how the heck probiotics could cause me to feel this terrible. They literally stop the reflux but cause death otherwise! What gives?

I'm assuming it has something to do with cymbalta absorption in some way as no one else with sibo gets affected like this. Maybe the reduction in acid and inflammation?

#1514 fishinghat

fishinghat

    Site Partners

  • Active Members
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 12,312 posts
  • LocationMissouri

Posted 28 July 2020 - 09:24 AM

There are over 100 bacteria that frequently occur in the digestive tract. Good ones and bad ones. Their characteristics depend on what compounds they release during digestion and what compounds they directly generate. It is hard to say the exact cause \but I may be able to help. On your bottle of probiotics it should give the specific bacteria that it contains. If you can give me that list I will try and find out which ones should be helping with the reflux and which ones may be causing the side effects. Maybe we can find a better on point product for you.


#1515 ForLyla

ForLyla

    Like a Family Member

  • Active Members
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 662 posts
  • LocationToronto
  • why_joining:
    It's really difficult finding support for conditions like this. There's really nothing at a local level so the internet is pretty much it.

Posted 28 July 2020 - 09:36 AM

Thanks FH! As always your research and expertise is appreciated.

S boulardii
L plantarum
L reuteri
L acidophilus
B lactis

Just the s boulardii and l plantarum seem to be enough to stop my reflux. I'm wondering if its the s boulardii which is actually a yeast based probiotic. Maybe I experience die off from it? Who knows!

#1516 fishinghat

fishinghat

    Site Partners

  • Active Members
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 12,312 posts
  • LocationMissouri

Posted 28 July 2020 - 09:41 AM

Thanks for the info. It may take some time but I will let you know what I find.


#1517 ForLyla

ForLyla

    Like a Family Member

  • Active Members
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 662 posts
  • LocationToronto
  • why_joining:
    It's really difficult finding support for conditions like this. There's really nothing at a local level so the internet is pretty much it.

Posted 28 July 2020 - 09:43 AM

Like how frustrating is that, that the only thing that makes my horrible reflux go away is the thing that makes me feel the worst. Does cymbalta interact with literally everything? This is the worst poison imaginable! I want off of it. How do I get rid of this damm 25mg I'm still on?

#1518 ForLyla

ForLyla

    Like a Family Member

  • Active Members
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 662 posts
  • LocationToronto
  • why_joining:
    It's really difficult finding support for conditions like this. There's really nothing at a local level so the internet is pretty much it.

Posted 28 July 2020 - 10:46 AM

I'd like to still taper despite how awful I feel, no matter how little it is. Would 1% or approx 1 bead every 2 weeks be reasonable to not have long-term reactions?

#1519 fishinghat

fishinghat

    Site Partners

  • Active Members
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 12,312 posts
  • LocationMissouri

Posted 28 July 2020 - 11:38 AM

Reasonable but I would wait a few days until this episode passes a little.


#1520 fishinghat

fishinghat

    Site Partners

  • Active Members
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 12,312 posts
  • LocationMissouri

Posted 30 July 2020 - 07:55 AM

Well, I was surprised. Most probiotic research deals with its antibacterial action against pathogens, stabilizing bacterial populations in the gut and treating diarrhea. In addition, a lot research is on a mixture of probiotic strains not on one strain at a time. There is little information on how individual species affect pH in the GI tract. I did find a lot of interesting info though that may apply to your situation. As most of those probiotic strains encourage good bacteria and may kill bad bacteria you will possibly be exposed to endotoxins from the bad bacteria. Also, a great many of the species you listed have significant impact on digestive neurotransmitters. 

 

Overview

 

The gut microbiota can directly synthesize more than 90% of 5-hydroxytryptamine (5-HT) and dopamine (DA) in the body 
 
Psychobiotics and the Manipulation of Bacteria–Gut–Brain Signals
Neurotransmitters: psychobiotics enhance neurotransmitter production in the gut, including dopamine (DA), serotonin (5-HT), noradrenaline (NA), and γ-aminobutyric acid (GABA), which likely modulate neurotransmission in the proximal synapses of the enteric nervous system. 
 
Lactobacillus probiotics should not be taken in patients who are sensitive to lactose in milk. Most Lactobacillus species effects serotonin. A review of Table 1 in.....
shows all the probiotic strains and which neurotransmitters they effect.

#1521 fishinghat

fishinghat

    Site Partners

  • Active Members
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 12,312 posts
  • LocationMissouri

Posted 30 July 2020 - 08:16 AM

I have more info Lyla but it will not let me post it right now. I will try again later in the morning. Sorry.


#1522 fishinghat

fishinghat

    Site Partners

  • Active Members
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 12,312 posts
  • LocationMissouri

Posted 30 July 2020 - 11:05 AM

Information on your specific species. 
Page 1
 
Saccharomyces boulardii - Yeast
 
Used to treat certain types of diarrhea and some intestinal infestations. 
It does not effect acid generation directly but due to it's increase in release of IgA, an antibody, it can be effective in treating some gastric diseases which can cause increases in acid release. 
 
Other than research in regard to the above mentioned subjects little is known about this yeast.
 
Possible Side Effects
Like other supplements, little is known about the safety of long-term or regular use due to a lack of research.
Saccharomyces boulardii may cause certain side effects (such as gas and bloating, constipation). In addition, there's some concern that use of Saccharomyces boulardii may lead to fungemia (a condition marked by the presence of fungi in the blood).5 Older adults, infants, immunocompromised or seriously ill patients, and people with colitis, cancer, central venous catheters, and any chronic or acute condition should avoid pathway. Saccharomyces boulardii, or use it only after consulting their primary care provider.

#1523 fishinghat

fishinghat

    Site Partners

  • Active Members
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 12,312 posts
  • LocationMissouri

Posted 30 July 2020 - 11:07 AM

Page 2
 
Lactobacillus plantarum
 
It is a lactic acid producing bacteria. Lactic acid has been commonly associated with increased anxiety due to the formation of sodium lactate in the body. L. plantarum has significant antioxidant activities and also helps to maintain intestinal permeability.  It is able to suppress the growth of gas-producing bacteria in the intestines and may benefit some patients who suffer from IBS. It helps to create microbe balance and stabilize digestive enzyme patterns.  Lactobacillus plantarum has been found in experiments to increase hippocampal brain derived neurotrophic factor, which means L. plantarum may have a beneficial role in the treatment of depression. The ability of L. plantarum to produce antimicrobial substances helps them survive in the gastrointestinal tract of humans. The antimicrobial substances produced have shown significant effect on Gram-positive and Gram-negative bacteria.
 
 
Lactobacillus plantarum DR7 Modulated Bowel Movement and Gut Microbiota Associated with Dopamine and Serotonin Pathways in Stressed Adults
We have previously reported that the administration of Lactobacillus plantarum DR7 for 12 weeks reduced stress and anxiety in stressed adults as compared to the placebo group, in association with changes along the brain neurotransmitters pathways of serotonin and dopamine-norepinephrine. Our present data showed that physiological changes induced by L. plantarum could be associated with changes in specific taxa of the gut microbiota along the serotonin and dopamine pathways.
 
Lactobacillus plantarum DR7 alleviates stress and anxiety in adults: a randomised, double-blind, placebo-controlled study
The administration of DR7 enhanced the serotonin pathway, as observed by lowered expressions of plasma dopamine β-hydroxylase (DBH), tyrosine hydroxylase (TH), indoleamine 2,3-dioxygenase and tryptophan 2,3-dioxygenase accompanied by increased expressions of tryptophan hydroxylase-2 and 5-hydroxytryptamine receptor-6, while stabilizing the dopamine pathway as observed via stabilized expressions of TH and DBH over 12 weeks as compared to the placebo.

#1524 fishinghat

fishinghat

    Site Partners

  • Active Members
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 12,312 posts
  • LocationMissouri

Posted 30 July 2020 - 11:10 AM

Page 4
 
Probiotic Lactobacillus plantarum P8 alleviated stress and anxiety while enhancing memory and cognition in stressed adults: A randomised, double-blind, placebo-controlled study
The present data illustrated that L. plantarum P8 is a feasible and natural intervention for the alleviation of selected stress, anxiety, memory and cognitive symptoms in stressed adults.

#1525 fishinghat

fishinghat

    Site Partners

  • Active Members
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 12,312 posts
  • LocationMissouri

Posted 30 July 2020 - 11:13 AM

Page 5

 

Lactobacillus plantarum MTCC 9510 supplementation protects from chronic unpredictable and sleep deprivation-induced behaviour, biochemical and selected gut microbial aberrations in mice
We provide evidence that positive modulation of the selected beneficial gut microbial population could serve as a viable strategy to neutralize day-to-day and SD stress-induced pathological alterations.
 
L. plantarum 299v (DSM 9843) also increases the amount of carboxylic acid, particularly acetic and propionic acids, in the stools of healthy volunteers

#1526 fishinghat

fishinghat

    Site Partners

  • Active Members
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 12,312 posts
  • LocationMissouri

Posted 30 July 2020 - 11:15 AM

Page 6

 

Lactobacillus reuteri 
 
L. reuteri, a lactic acid producing bacteria, benefits its host in a variety of ways, particularly by fighting off harmful infections and mediating the immune system. It is used to treat diarrhea, to produce the antibiotic Reuterin and reduce the occurrence of bad bacteria in the gut.
 
With regard to prevention of gut infections, comparative research found L. reuteri to be more potent than other probiotics.  Animal research found it to reduce motor complexes and thus intestinal motility.
 
Effects of long-term administration of Lactobacillus reuteri DSM-17938 on circulating levels of 5-HT and BDNF in adults with functional constipation
At the end of probiotic administration (V4), 5-HT and BDNF serum levels were significantly lower than the initial values.

#1527 fishinghat

fishinghat

    Site Partners

  • Active Members
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 12,312 posts
  • LocationMissouri

Posted 30 July 2020 - 11:18 AM

Page 7

 

Oral treatment with Lactobacillus reuteri attenuates depressive-like behaviors and serotonin metabolism alterations induced by chronic social defeat stress
The anti-depressive effects of L. reuteri 3 were associated with improved gut microbiota and serotonin metabolism.
 
Beneficial effects of Lactobacillus reuteri 6475 on bone density in male mice is dependent on lymphocytes
May increase bone density.
 
Lactobacillus acidophilus
 
L. acidophilus was found to lower serum cholesterol and raise cholesterol in fecal matter when fed to pigs. It helps balance gut bacteria populations. Digests sugars into lactic acid.
 
Used for treating diarrhea and balancing gut bacterial populations and certain gut infections.
 
L. acidophilus can cause an allergic reaction in some people. Check with your doctor immediately if any of the following side effects occur:
Cough
difficulty with swallowing
dizziness
fast heartbeat
hives, itching, or rash
puffiness or swelling of the eyelids or around the eyes, face, lips, or tongue
tightness in the chest
trouble breathing
unusual tiredness or weakness
 
Constipation and bloating are common side effects.
 
Lactobacillus acidophilus and Bifidobacterium longum supernatants upregulate the serotonin transporter expression in intestinal epithelial cells
 
Bifidobacterium animalis (previously called B lactis)
 
Bifidobacterium Lactis is a very powerful transient probiotic bacteria. Scientific studies have proven that B. Lactis enhances immunity, fights tumor growth, improves digestion and can lower cholesterol.
 
B. animalis/lactis inhabit the intestines & the colon in great numbers. Generally, their job is to break down body waste & aid in the absorption of various vitamins & minerals
 
Bifido Lactis is present in raw milk and is used as starter culture for cheese, cottage cheese and butter milk.
In some people, stomach upset may occur. A person may also experience bloating, as well as gas. In some cases, diarrhea has also been noted. These side effects generally only occur for a few days. Once the body gets acquainted with the change in bacterium species in the gastrointestinal tract, the side effects tend to subside. 
 
 
Study of gastrointestinal tract viability and motility via modulation of serotonin in a zebrafish model by probiotics
The regulation mechanism of serotonin by Bifidobacterium animalis F1-7 was revealed by RT-PCR and the results show that this most effective strain promotes intestinal peristalsis in zebrafish via the modulation of serotonin release and key genes for serotonin synthesis in zebrafish.

#1528 fishinghat

fishinghat

    Site Partners

  • Active Members
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 12,312 posts
  • LocationMissouri

Posted 30 July 2020 - 11:23 AM

Well, I had to post it in small sections but I made it.  lol


#1529 invalidusername

invalidusername

    Site Partners

  • Site Supporter
  • 5,192 posts
  • LocationKent, UK

Posted 30 July 2020 - 06:36 PM

Not that again!! 

 

This needs to be addressed by Ken...


#1530 ForLyla

ForLyla

    Like a Family Member

  • Active Members
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 662 posts
  • LocationToronto
  • why_joining:
    It's really difficult finding support for conditions like this. There's really nothing at a local level so the internet is pretty much it.

Posted 01 August 2020 - 03:43 PM

Thank you FH. A lot of information to decipher here, some of it is very useful after glancing it over. You're the best at finding this info. I'll follow up when I get a chance to sit down and research this further.



0 user(s) are reading this topic

0 members, 0 guests, 0 anonymous users