8 replies to this topic

[atruestar]

Greetings all. I started taking Duloxetine per recommendation of a university health center doctor, as I've been struggling with constant generalized anxiety forever and began to look into treatment in the past year. Last year for around six months I was on Fluoxetine and it seemed to help, I had no problems missing doses or quitting for periods of time for that one but eventually just stopped refilling it when I moved to uni. 

 

After starting at 30mg and eventually going up to 60mg, I can say the drug definitely helped a ton and let me live a life that felt way more normal. Felt like I had way more control over my anxiety response, and the depression that had developed as a result of anxiety all but disappeared. I didn't like the GI issues and it made me sleep, but I got into supplements to tackle those and other things, and to be honest I kind of liked the dizzy/"high" feeling it tended to give me at random times in the day. 

 

However as I researched more about the drug just out of curiosity I found out about just how bad the withdrawal was, my doctor did tell me not to miss doses or stop taking it, but she had not described anything like the reports I was reading. In addition I became concerned for my liver especially with regards to alcohol even though I rarely drank it. I didn't like that lots of other substances can cause big problems or just not work when taken together with cymbalta. Basically all these factors made me want to just not be on the drug for the long term, and I feel like I would rather just avoid SSRIs in general. So I told my doctor and though she advised I stay on it just because it had only been three months, we agreed to drop down to 30mg and go from there. I noticed some stuff going down to 30mg, like the brain zaps I had become familiar with after occasionally missing doses, but really I felt the exact same in terms of mood. So when the 30mg ran out I figured I had done enough of a taper and quit taking it altogether. That was about two weeks ago and honestly it was a pretty awful decision.

 

Things started feeling bad around three days in. First there are the obvious in your face withdrawal symptoms. These are the ones that get all the attention.

The brain zaps started to happen all day and now would come in threes or fours in quick succession. I can track them down to happening when I dart my eyes, and I get a ringing in my ears and a quick pulsing of my whole head three our four times. My vision has to adjust for seconds afterwards. They definitely get worse when I am in anxiety-inducing situations. Altogether probably the least problematic symptom since it's pretty easy to live with for me. 

Constipation is back full force from when I started the medicine, I take magnesium, probiotics and Omega 3 and they do not help much like they did back then. It feels like a mini IBS because I just always have to go to the bathroom but in a very painful and ineffective way.

Restlessness/twitching/insomnia are so frustrating. It feels like I cannot get comfortable in any position at any time and my muscles are just permanently unhappy. I tend to have some natural RLS anyway but it keeps just happening when I'm trying to fall asleep and I hate it. I also just feel extremely tired at times and awake at others, I just have to sleep when I feel tired and deal with the consequences.

Muscle pain, tightness, and uncomfortableness all over the upper body. Awful aches in my shoulder blades that literally follow me around all day. It is cold here, and when I go out my chest gets extremely tight, tense, and it is very painful. A lot of the pains are definitely the kinds I would associate with stress/anxiety, and the tightness just envelops me in any tense situation. I roll around all night in my bed trying to get comfortable.

 

Those are just the physical symptoms. I haven't been able to find any supplements/remedies that help with these. The mental symptoms are way worse and are the part that makes me feel like I want to die. It's like all the reasons I started taking the medicine coming back full force but worse.

 

Return of anxiety and subsequent depression. It's like I had been looking at the world through a lens and now it's off. Everything just seems so much more real--and dull, and bad, and awful. I tend to just have random introspective stints that leave me sad, confused, and hopeless at random points in the day, and it's so hard to function as a normal human being like that.

Panic attacks, rage, temper, and inability to control stress responses in any way shape or form. Social engagements I normally find myself at every week are just so much more difficult to attend now. I have had panic attacks while on the medicine as well but they are much more frequent and random on withdrawal. It's like my anxiety level is a pot of water on the stove which could at any point in time boil over due to god knows what. And then the physical symptoms start building and I have to run out of the room because I feel like I have stopped breathing and I notice by heart racing for literally no reason. It feels like rage at everything is bottled up inside of me and I frequently find myself yelling/screaming just to let it out to prevent myself from lashing out at my friends. Part of it is due to the awfulness of the withdrawal but a lot of it is just frustration and the alienation this anxiety and withdrawal makes me feel. 

Mood swings and going from laughing to crying and being randomly offended by things in public. I just cannot predict when an avalanche of anxious thoughts is gonna hit and it sometimes amazes me how awful the things that I think about myself are. The whole situation is actually extremely depressing. 

 

I made a mistake by tapering way too fast and basically not at all. I figured the withdrawal just wouldn't affect me this badly and now I'm paying the price. The worst thing is the way it prevents me from living my life. But I hope things get better soon. Thank you all for reading and I hope anyone out there who is going through some of these things tonight feels better too.

[invalidusername]

Hi atruestar and welcome...

 

I have had a good read through your post and bought me right back to the early days of my withdrawal. Absolutely everything you write here is classic withdrawal symptoms, and yes, you are right in that you tapered way too fast. 

 

As it has only been two weeks since you stopped, my immediate recommendation is that you reinstate today - don't wait any longer as it will only become worse. Going back to the same dose you were on isn't always the best idea as your system has been used to zero for a few days, so I would suggest going to 20mg - stabalise and then a slow taper from there. It will probably take 2-3 days for the meds to start kicking in again but you will feel better. Once you are there, we can talk about a schedule of slowly coming off.

 

Regarding the supplements, you already have a good idea, but make sure the Omega 3 you are taking is sufficient to give you around 3000 combined EPA/DHA, otherwise it will do very little - if anything - for your symptoms.

 

Finally, for the anxiety that you are struggling with, I would suggest you get some Suntheanine. A lot of members have tried this with success. You can dose anywhere from 100mg to 400mg, but start low and see how it works for you. It sounds like your depression is triggered by the anxiety and symptoms - just like myself. So, I hope that from reinstating and getting the anxiety under control that we will also get a handle on the depression.

 

Other members will be along later today with their thoughts to, so hang tight and have a rest today - but please feel free to ask any further questions or raise any concerns.

 

IUN

[invalidusername]

Also... just remembered - brain is not the full ticket this week!

 

You mentioned a few times in your post about missing doses. I am sure you are aware, but this is really not good. By having peaks and troughs in your blood level, your body will get oversensitised, and thus symptoms become worse. Each time this happens, you "shock" your system and it puts its guard up. Just be extra vigilant with this. Use an alarm on your phone, or tie your taking of the pills with something you do daily like shower, or breakfast. Three weeks to make or break a habit!

[fishinghat]

I fully agree with IUN. Get reinstated and then slowly wean your way down by bead counting. The Suntheanine and Omega 3 are great ideas. Other things to consider are Vitamin C 500 mg/day or N-acetylcysteine at 500 mg/day. Both are strong antioxidants

 

There are other things to try but that is enough for now. Please be sure and try one thing at a time otherwise you won't know what helped or hurt the symptoms. 

 

You are not alone, we know what you are going through and we will walk you through this process. Hang in there.

[gail]

Welcome Atruestar,

Nothing to add to this, I agree with reinstating at 20, see how goes.

The guys suggested good natural products to help you during this process.

Come by Anytime, Gail

[atruestar]

Greetings all and thank you all for the advice. I will have to admit it came as a bit of a shock that you all suggested reinstating. I totally understand why that's definitely the best way to go but I'm sure you understand just how hard it is to imagine going through this again. I felt so determined to get through this and start treating my anxiety in better ways. But I also understand that recovery is a process that comes with setbacks, and suicidal ideations from withdrawal (though I haven't felt any) are nothing to mess around with. I think you are all absolutely right but it just can't bring me any close to making that decision just yet. I have lots of leftover 60mg pills to bead count from though, so it's always possible to start again. I guess my hangup is that I hadn't really considered the option at all prior to this point. But I can hardly ignore the advice from you three so I think it's what I'll be doing.

 

Hi atruestar and welcome...

 

I have had a good read through your post and bought me right back to the early days of my withdrawal. Absolutely everything you write here is classic withdrawal symptoms, and yes, you are right in that you tapered way too fast. 

 

As it has only been two weeks since you stopped, my immediate recommendation is that you reinstate today - don't wait any longer as it will only become worse. Going back to the same dose you were on isn't always the best idea as your system has been used to zero for a few days, so I would suggest going to 20mg - stabalise and then a slow taper from there. It will probably take 2-3 days for the meds to start kicking in again but you will feel better. Once you are there, we can talk about a schedule of slowly coming off.

 

Regarding the supplements, you already have a good idea, but make sure the Omega 3 you are taking is sufficient to give you around 3000 combined EPA/DHA, otherwise it will do very little - if anything - for your symptoms.

 

Finally, for the anxiety that you are struggling with, I would suggest you get some Suntheanine. A lot of members have tried this with success. You can dose anywhere from 100mg to 400mg, but start low and see how it works for you. It sounds like your depression is triggered by the anxiety and symptoms - just like myself. So, I hope that from reinstating and getting the anxiety under control that we will also get a handle on the depression.

 

Other members will be along later today with their thoughts to, so hang tight and have a rest today - but please feel free to ask any further questions or raise any concerns.

 

IUN

 

Hi IUN, thank you for the work you do here. Found out that my fish oil isn't even close to those amounts, even taking four of them a day it's under 1000mg of both. Will go out and get some stronger stuff. I started 200mg Suntheanine and 600mg Ashwagandha root extract two days ago, since I hear they both can work together to help a GABA deficiency like what's caused by the withdrawal and also they're pretty great supplements on their own. While I didn't really keep tabs on whether they specifically helped withdrawal symptoms, the two together seem very potent and bring a stunningly strong sense of calm and wellbeing. I will have to play around with taking them at different times of the day though since Ashwagandha seems to make me sleepy and theanine should be taken with caffeine. You're very right that the depression is brought on by anxiety/symptoms, especially panic attacks, which just make me feel completely broken and helpless, so hopefully this combo can help.

 

Is it really only going to get worse? Each day I feel like I'm on the verge of recovery only to feel in the dumps again. I have no idea whether me having anxiety attacks and wanting to cry all the time is a result of the withdrawal or just the anxiety symptoms returning since I stopped the medicine. Sure I could reinstate the medicine, but isn't that just putting the bandaid back on? The trouble is how much this very real withdrawal clouds my mind and my ability to think rationally about situations... and sometimes I think the problem is me and my mental health even though I know this withdrawal has everything to do with it. How am I supposed to tell if I'm just a naturally depressed/anxious person or if it's just this damn medicine?

 

Also... just remembered - brain is not the full ticket this week!

 

You mentioned a few times in your post about missing doses. I am sure you are aware, but this is really not good. By having peaks and troughs in your blood level, your body will get oversensitised, and thus symptoms become worse. Each time this happens, you "shock" your system and it puts its guard up. Just be extra vigilant with this. Use an alarm on your phone, or tie your taking of the pills with something you do daily like shower, or breakfast. Three weeks to make or break a habit!

 

Yeah I really had no idea that missing doses of SRIs was a pretty bad thing until friends on them told me and I found out with my own experience. Since this drug has such a short half-life, I would find myself getting brain zaps in the morning whenever I slept in later than the previous day if I took it in the morning. Eventually I was able to link the zaps to not having the drug in my system and that's what started to make me want off.

 

I fully agree with IUN. Get reinstated and then slowly wean your way down by bead counting. The Suntheanine and Omega 3 are great ideas. Other things to consider are Vitamin C 500 mg/day or N-acetylcysteine at 500 mg/day. Both are strong antioxidants

 

There are other things to try but that is enough for now. Please be sure and try one thing at a time otherwise you won't know what helped or hurt the symptoms. 

 

You are not alone, we know what you are going through and we will walk you through this process. Hang in there.

 

 

I do take vitamin C at 1000mg/day. Have never heard of N-acetlycysteine but I will do some reasearch. I agree that one thing at a time is the best way to go here. Thank you for your advice.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

[fishinghat]

"theanine should be taken with caffeine"

First of all be sure it is Suntheanine which is pure L-theanine and is more effective than any other form. Second of all Theanine should NOT be taken with caffeine if you are suffering from anxiety. It is usually taken with caffeine to offset the sleepiness of Theanine if you are suffering from fatigue. One should not take caffeine (coffee, chocolate, etc.). salty food, sugar or other stimulants during withdrawal as they can make your symptoms worse.

[invalidusername]

I truly honestly understand from where you are coming from, and that reinstating seems like such a horrible thing to do once you have seen what withdrawal can do. Of course you want to push through and come out the other side.

 

This reminds me when I was teaching people adavnced driving, and when a front-wheeled drive car looses control at the back, the best thing to do is to accelerate! You can imagine that this is the last thing people think of doing as it goes against your rational thoughts. This is very similar.

 

But with the withdrawal, it might be that you can stick it out and be fortunate to have a less intense recovery, but I have to be honest in saying that is not the way it happens in most cases. People have come here after trying to stick it out only to come to the end of the tether. There is no weakness in going back up a dose - this is running before you can walk. Think of training for a marathon. You could do a few 5 mile runs and think, yeah I could do that 30 mile run now. Course you could, but it will take ages, and you will have a really rough time doing it. In order to make things work in your favour, these things must be done slowly and with patience. Cold turkey is not a short-cut to the end. Trust me.

 

Ash will make you sleepy for sure, so might be better to take at bedtime. Raising the GABA levels will help you relax and reach REM cycles more readily which is paramount for healing the nervous system. You do not have to take caffiene with theanine, although it can help in some cases. Try both and see what works, but give each trial a good 10-14 days for results. [EDIT] Hat is right what he said above - but if you already drink tea/coffee and don't want to stop, then apply my method. But don't start drinking tea of coffee for the purposes!!

 

Anxiety will occur with almost ALL withdrawals. And man is it difficult just to keep telling yourself that it is just the pills. I've been there too many times. I'm currently at the stage where the smallest thing will set off the quickest spiral to an anxious moment. I am very sensitized much like yourself, and this is going to happen. Fighting it won't help as it is the nature of the beast. It can even just come out of nowhere - as can the depression. I will be perfectly distracted like I am now writing to you, and it will just come at me. A sinking feeling in the pit of my stomach and... where the bloody hell did that come from? This is no more than the brain righting itself. It has no idea of what it normal because you had a pill rewriting the rule book. Your brain will now go through a process of recataloging your emotions to arrive at the necessary values for all the chemicals it needs to release. In order to do this, emotions will be up, down, back up and all over until your brain decides what is right. 

 

Bottom line if you are with me so far is that because you have stopped so abruptly, the brain has a much bigger distance to go with this cataloging. In smaller doses, it has less to learn at one time. We try to keep it as painless as possible, and this is the proven way. But whatever you decide, no-one will judge you, no-one will stop talking to you and supporting you. I have come into contact with some of the most loving and amazing people here who want nothing but the best for people like you.

[gail]

Hello Atruestar,

IUN is right in saying that we will support you whichever way you decide to go.

You have good supplements to help you with the withdrawal. We don't judge a person's way of doing. In the long run, you may be just fine. Do come back anytime, we do appreciate updates which may help with the newbee. And us, of course.