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Bead Counting Tapering - New To Me So All Advice Welcome!


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#1 NotMyself

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Posted 02 April 2019 - 07:52 AM

Hi Everybody!

I just joined and this is my first post. I’ve read a lot about people bead counting their taper but am finding it confusing. I’ve been on 20mg Duloxetine for two years now. At first I knew I really needed it as I was severely anxious and depressed with suicidal thoughts. At one point my doc prescribed 30mg Duloxetine but it wiped me out and I was barely aware because I was so ‘stoned’ so have stayed with the 20mg. I also take approximately 10mg of Diazepam twice a week when I’m especially anxious or can’t sleep. I’m aware I may always have to take at least some Duloxetine for my ongoing mental health.

For now, I’m not planning on coming right off Duloxetine but aim to be stabilised on 10mg and see how that feels. I want to know who I am again without this feeling of being overly medicated. Not knowing any better, a couple of weeks ago I started taking 20mg one day and 10mg the next. I realise now I’ve been crashing and bumping my system repeatedly and have been especially stoned on the 20mg days and have horrendous nightmares most nights.

I’d really appreciate any advice regarding a controlled tapering down to 10mg Duloxetine; how to do the bead count and over what sort of time period etc. Also, is there such a thing as an actual bead counter? Are there 90 beads per 20mg capsule? I’m vegetarian so am used to opening the gelatine capsules and tipping them into vegecaps.

Thanks in advance and best wishes to everyone 😃

#2 invalidusername

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Posted 02 April 2019 - 08:09 AM

Welcome Notmyself...

 

It sounds like you have done some homework already, and bead counting is for sure the way to go with this - jumping down 50% of your dose at once is a recipe for disaster! As you have been on Duloxetine for 2 years, you will need to go very slowly, and I would recommend a 1% drop per day which should mean you avoid any major withdrawal effects. You might be able to go quicker, but it sounds like you are in no rush - and that is a good thing!

 

What you will need to do is count the amount of beads in a capsule and remove the relevant amount accordingly. So if you had 200 beads in your 20mg, then this would mean 100 beads would give you the 10mg drop, thereby meaning you would remove 1 bead on the first day, 2 beads on the second and so on until after 3 months you reach your goal.

 

If at any point you start to feel unstable, you can always hang where you are, or go back a bead or two - but hopefully that will not be the case.

 

We also have a number of resources here that will help you counteract any issues such as withdrawal anxiety, head fog, zaps etc. We can help you as and when - but for now, we'll wait for one or two others to weigh in here and offer support.

 

IUN


#3 fishinghat

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Posted 02 April 2019 - 08:47 AM

IUN gave you excellent advice. I can't really think of anything to add.

Welcome to the site and feel free to come back anytime to ask questions or just to vent. we are here for you.

#4 gail

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Posted 02 April 2019 - 04:01 PM

Welcome Notmyself,

Same here, not much to add. We would appreciate an update along the way, thank you!

It's a slow procedure, you may want to try 2-4-6-8 if you feel it's to slow. Just come back to 1-2-3 if you have withdrawal symptoms.

#5 NotMyself

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Posted 03 April 2019 - 04:00 AM

Hi invalidusername, fishing hat and gail. Thanks so much for the great advice and welcome! Am going to do this very slowly as spent years tapering off Dosulepin/Dothiepin - no longer prescribed in the UK - and know how difficult it can be. There are 180 beads per 20mg capsule so will begin tapering soon. Again, thanks for all your help and hope everyone’s doing ok. It’s great to know I’m not alone with this. Will be reporting soon!

#6 fishinghat

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Posted 03 April 2019 - 09:05 AM

Thanks for the info NotMyself. I would recommend no faster than a 1 bead a drop day. At least for a beginning point.

#7 Just42day

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Posted 03 April 2019 - 10:01 AM

Good morning and welcome! I'm a newbie here also,by the grace of God I found this site and can tell you from experience that you are in the right place. Great advice and understanding.
I found the encouragement I needed here, hope you do too.

#8 invalidusername

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Posted 03 April 2019 - 03:28 PM

Good to have another from the UK here!

 

Agreed with Hat - start with the 1 bead and see how it fairs over the first 7-10 days. Please feel free to report back so we can see how you are going.


#9 invalidusername

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Posted 04 April 2019 - 07:33 AM

Lovely avatar NotMyself. 

 

Six years later and FishingHat is still yet to work out how to do this :D :D :D


#10 fishinghat

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Posted 04 April 2019 - 08:03 AM

Not really IUN. That IS my picture I am using. lol

#11 invalidusername

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Posted 04 April 2019 - 08:35 AM

You need to get some sun :)


#12 fishinghat

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Posted 04 April 2019 - 09:10 AM

Not today. Cool rainy and no sun.

#13 NotMyself

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Posted 04 April 2019 - 01:29 PM

Just42today, thanks for the welcome. Am already sensing this is the place to be!
Invalidusername cheers about my avatar and good to find another UK-er. I originally loaded a pic of Bowie revealed as his alien self in The Man Who Fell To Earth but didn’t want to unsettle anyone lol. And fishinghat, I reckon you lend a certain calming zen-like quality to the visuals lol.

So confession. I haven’t even started my taper yet (it was scheduled to start yesterday in my head) as stuff’s happened that’s thrown me for a loop. I’m hyper sensitive to noise and crave peace and quiet. The property adjoining me has been empty for three months but my new neighbours seemed to move most of their stuff in on Monday afternoon. I knew it had to happen. But then they disappeared. Went to bed Tuesday night and was actually having a good kip when all hell let loose - new neighbours had arrived with another van load of stuff at 1.45am! The noise was horrendous and didn’t stop till they left again at 4am. I’ve been in panic mode ever since but it’s helped that I’m now back to taking 20mg of Duloxetine instead of the 10/20mg I was alternating before finding the forum.

The new neighbours have been back again during the afternoon but still not in yet. Am thinking they’ll make the change at the weekend and don’t think I can cope starting the taper till they move in and settle. Am terrified they’re going to be noisy and am actually glad I feel so zonked now. Am already feeling a failure for not even starting yet but my very sensible side knows not to play with fire.

Sorry for all the boring stuff. Was wondering if anyone could advise about splitting my 20mg dose into two 10mg doses a day as I always fall asleep in the afternoon on 20mg and it helps wreck my night sleep. Any advice welcome and hope everyone’s doing ok :D

#14 fishinghat

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Posted 04 April 2019 - 02:25 PM

"I’m hyper sensitive to noise and crave peace and quiet."

Amen to that.

"Was wondering if anyone could advise about splitting my 20mg dose into two 10mg doses a day as I always fall asleep in the afternoon on 20mg and it helps wreck my night sleep."

Excellent idea, should help.

#15 invalidusername

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Posted 04 April 2019 - 02:56 PM

"And fishinghat, I reckon you lend a certain calming zen-like quality to the visuals"
 
Zen master Hat :D :D :D
 
Ooh - lots of reply there!! And first, do not think you are in any way failing as you are yet to start your taper. If anything, it is very wise to pick your time. Regarding the neighbours; I hear you. The apartment block which backs onto mine has been undergoing renovations for the last 4 months! Turning 15 old peoples rooms into 8 apartments. The noise is continuous from 8am-5pm. Some days are better than others. But I hope you get your peace and quiet. That was so wrong that they disturbed at that time of the night. 
 
Splitting the dose is a one way to start. Bear in mind that rather than going 20mg over 24 hours, which will give you 5mg at the point of taking the next dose, you will be taking 10mg which at 12 hour point will be 5mg when you take the next so you will not reach that 20mg "boost", you will have two 15mg "boosts". I hope that makes sense. If not, tell me and I will illustrate further. But expect to have a little wobble for 3-4 days as you adjust, but you shouldn't have any trouble - in fact you might feel better.
 
Finally - Mr Bowie. The legend. That would not be a problem for an avatar. Feel free to change! It would be good to have something like that to look at.
 
[edit] When splitting do indeed makes sure you take 12 HOURS APART. Otherwise, your blood levels will be all over the place!

#16 fishinghat

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Posted 04 April 2019 - 05:17 PM

This apartment thing has me puzzled. Here in the states there is a 'noise curfew' in most towns of 11 pm to 7 am. Excessive noise is not allowed. Moving in to an apartment at those hours is sure to get a call to the police by the neighbors.

#17 invalidusername

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Posted 04 April 2019 - 06:19 PM

We have the same thing, but unless there is violence involved, the Police wouldn't be too quick in responding.

 

The Police here (or fuzz, narks, pigs!) are more motivated by money. They would rather sit by the edge of the road and catch someone speeding than prevent a robbery... or deal with noisy neighbours.


#18 NotMyself

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Posted 05 April 2019 - 06:22 AM

Fishinghat, glad I’m not the only noise averse one here. It follows me around like a bloodhound! That sounds horrendous, IUN. When will the building work be finished? Hope it’s soon. Noise has been one of the major contributing factors to my depression/anxiety, but only tell that to a shrink if you want to see bewilderment :). New neighbours landed in again this morning, this time at 3.20am. One of them left at 4.30am, the other’s still clunking around on bare floorboards. I have a welcome box of shortbread and choccie biccies for them but won’t be delivering today as too groggy and lacking in neighbourly good will just now.

Thanks so much for the info on splitting the doses, IUN. I get what you’re saying and took 10mg this morning and next 10 tonight. I’ll have a Valium if the wobble’s too much. Just hearing from you people is helping. My best friend and only remaining family member live miles away so it’s tricky staying sociable.

Another Bowie appreciator! Yay! Will look out a fave pic for my avatar. Thanks again for all the encouragement, help and advice. So relieved to be here. Hope everyone’s doing ok :) :) :)

#19 fishinghat

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Posted 05 April 2019 - 08:41 AM

Good morning NM

I have one of the top of the line noise cancelling headphones by Bose. It is very effective on reducing noise and I were it nearly all the time I am out in noisy places in public or working around the house with power tools.

#20 NotMyself

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Posted 05 April 2019 - 09:16 AM

Hey fishinghat. I’ve considered the Bose headphones but doubt I could sleep in them as I kip on my side. Do they give you total silence?

#21 NotMyself

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Posted 05 April 2019 - 09:18 AM

And how comfy are they in general? I’m a petite headed woman :)

#22 fishinghat

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Posted 05 April 2019 - 09:35 AM

They are too bulky to wear while sleeping. For that I use a white noise machine which helps cancel some noises and cover up the rest. I find them very comfortable to wear except during hot weather when they will make your ears sweat. I use them when cutting grass and trimming in the summer. The new ones do a good job of cancelling out all frequencies except for the voices of people which it tends to cut in half. They do this so you can still have a conversation while eliminating most noise. I have actually had a conversation with a bull dozer driver with the equipment running.

I am also going to provide a link to a document that has some good tips on getting a good nights sleep. This came from my therapist and has really helped me a lot.

https://www.cymbalta...ght/#entry81862

#23 invalidusername

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Posted 05 April 2019 - 10:07 AM

Hi NotMyself,

 

Building work next door timescale is a piece of string kind of thing. It finishes when it finishes. They had a load of bricks and cement delivered as I went out to my first client, so I guess it is still early stages :(

 

Regarding your hearing situation, the best thing to use is musician's hearing protection. I have a fair bit of background in the field - and i used to work for Bose until I had a falling out with something one of the techs said about digital response stuff. Long story.

 

Anyway - you want these;

 

https://elacin.com/h...tion/elacin-er/

 

Find someone locally who can take molds of your ear, they will send off to have the plugs made, and then you can get the centres which fit in the molds that will reduce 20db, 30db. You can even have it customised to remove low end frequencies so you don't hear drones, but can still hear people speaking. These are what I have and they work amazingly. As they are molded to your ear, they are very comfortable and you can sleep on your sides no problem. They are in the region of £120-130, but well worth every penny.


#24 KathyInFL

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Posted 05 April 2019 - 12:33 PM

Hi NM, welcome! I googled "choccie biccies", now I want some!!!

 

I've been reading about these Bose headphones, has anyone tried them? Before I spend that much money, I'd love some good reviews!


#25 NotMyself

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Posted 05 April 2019 - 01:11 PM

Thanks for all the useful info re the noise and sleeping situ, fishinghat and IUN. Definitely looking into that! Would love to just pop comfy things in my ears and shut it all out! Am already wondering if the new neighbours will be clunking in the wee small hours. Am starting to unravel with the anxiety and lack of kip. Lordy, IUN, it’s so tough when you don’t even have a completion date for the building work. Bummer. I’d request an eardrum/cochlea removal op except they’d section me and I’d never hear the birds (or Bowie!) sing again! :) :(.

Thanks for the welcome, KathyInFL. I would gladly give you the choccie biccies (IUN will know exactly what these taste like) and let the noise free neighbours welcome the damned newbies I’m saddled with! Yup! The longer I go without sleep, the less tolerant I get. But it sounds like plenty of us are suffering from the dreaded noise. Oh for a quiet, nature sounds only, world. That would be my bliss! There’s a blackbird singing outside now as the sun sets. God, it’s beautiful. Wishing you all deep peace and quiet :) :) :)

#26 fishinghat

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Posted 05 April 2019 - 01:16 PM

Hey Kathy, I hope all is well with you. Read my post which is the second one before yours. I have used the Bose for many years.

#27 invalidusername

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Posted 05 April 2019 - 03:15 PM

Hey y'all.

 

I should state for the record that despite my issues with Bose, their products are good - but way overpriced. They are monopolising on their technology. Regarding the earbuds Kathy, you ar paying for the name, but you really cannot get better than molds made professionally. A lot of air pressure can still get around ear buds allowing low end frequencies to disturb. I know it is a pain to have the molds done, but you only need to have it done the once and its job done. 

 

Weekend is here, so noise should be minimal, although Saturday regs state that builders can still make noise from 8am on a Saturday. Sincerely hope that is not the case.

 

Now the choccie biccies. Which brand are we talking here? Foxs? McVities? More info needed :) 

 

Finally, and I know it is off topic a bit - but can I assume you, like I, have a very worn out copy of Labyrinth?


#28 NotMyself

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Posted 05 April 2019 - 03:53 PM

Ah yes, the choccie biccies! McVities milk chocolate digestives, of course!

Labyrinth. Hmmm.... I appreciate it and it’s fun but am an older girl so have different faves. I grew up with Ziggy’s snow white tan and braved the IRA’s threat to bomb Belfast when The Man Who Fell To Earth opened in 1976. Just three of us showed up - two nights in a row! Saw the man himself live twice in 1978 at Earls Court (when the Welcome To The Blackout album was recorded!) and twice again in Manchester in 1987. I have several DVDs of The Man Who Fell To Earth - gotta have back up for my fave film of all time lol. Was born the same day as Bowie (January 8th, several years apart) and never ever saw any humanoid as exquisitely beautiful. Been a lucky creature in many ways :) :) :)

#29 fishinghat

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Posted 05 April 2019 - 05:07 PM

My bad Kathy. I did not open the link and assumes you were talking about the head phones from bose.

#30 invalidusername

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Posted 05 April 2019 - 06:01 PM

I was born when you were attending Earls Court, so I am a bit behind! However, whilst everyone at school was listening to the likes of Wham and U2, I was stuck a few years behind with ELO, Boney M and of course the early Bowie, Kate Bush etc. What I would have given to have seen him live though.





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