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#1 Polly38

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Posted 27 September 2019 - 04:25 AM

Hi Everyone

I'm new here but have been loitering and reading lots of information, which has really helped.

So, my situation is that I was on Duloxetine for 4 weeks (after the doctor tried me on 3 other antidepressants over the last 8 months!). I felt really horrible on the Duloxetine so decided to start weaning off. I was on 30mg for 4 weeks. My doctor suggested I drop to 20mg but that was too big a drop for me so I went back up to 25mg for a out 10 days then dropped to 20mg. I have been bead counting for about 4 or 5 weeks and am down to 32 beads. The worst withdrawal for me are stomach issues. I have a burning pain behind my breastbone and un my stomach for most of every day. I feel lightheaded and weird and have random sweats, then feel cold but am not having brain zaps or any other withdrawals.

My question is - should I keep dropping a bead a day, or is that too fast? I would really appreciate some advice.

I am taking up to 2000mg a day of Omega 3 and 1000mg of Vitamin C. I tried L Theanine yesterday but felt really unwell. Are there any other supplements that would help as well please? I also take magnesium.

Thanks so much.

#2 Polly38

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Posted 27 September 2019 - 04:32 AM

Sorry I forgot to mention that it also feels like I can't catch my breath properly either.

#3 invalidusername

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Posted 27 September 2019 - 08:12 AM

Hi Polly.

 

Stomach issues are very common during withdrawal and for the amount of time your were on the Duloxetine, it sounds like you have had quite a reaction. My advice would be to stay where you are on 32 beads for a few days and see how the symptoms go after that. Ideally we don't want you going higher on the beads unless absolutely necessary. Hopefully, you will start to stabalise on the 32 beads and then I would suggest dropping every other day and seeing how that goes. By the sounds of it, you will probably need to drop further still when you reach the 10-12 bead mark. Listen to your body and it will tell you.

 

Vit C and Omega 3 are the two main supplements, but for your stomach, it might be worth considering something in addition. If you have nausea, then ginger is perfect, but pain is something else. You need to rule out anything more serious, but cramps are quite common. One thing we have learnt recently on the forum is not to use Zantac as there has been issues found.

 

Others will be along later I expect with more input, but hang in there for now.

 

IUN

 

p.s. If you haven't done so already, please download our eBook!!


#4 Polly38

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Posted 27 September 2019 - 08:21 AM

Thanks so much IUN.

The doctor put me on Ranitidine (Zantac) and I have been taking it regularly so it could be that!! I took one before I read your reply unfortunately, so I will have to ride the pain out and not take them again. I will stay at 32 for a few days and see how it goes. I can't believe it's taking me longer to get off than I was on it. What a nightmare!

Thanks again.

#5 Polly38

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Posted 27 September 2019 - 08:54 AM

I also, I had an endoscopy last week which showed I have 2 polyps in my stomach and my oesophagus is inflamed. The doctor said I could take Zantac or Lansoprazole. Is it OK to take Lansoprazole as I need to take something for the acid. Or can you recommend anything natural instead?

Thank you.

#6 fishinghat

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Posted 27 September 2019 - 09:23 AM

Hi Polly

I also agree with IUN on staying on your current dosage until things settle down.

 

By the way, never take magnesium within 2 hours of any other supplement/medicine as it can effect the absorption of that medication. What form of magnesium are you using (eg. magnesium carbonate)? Also, another thing that may help you is to take a Tums (calcium carbonate) and dissolve it in a little but of water and swallow it. Most antacids are taken and travel to the stomach where they dissolve and treat the extra acid that has developed. That is fine but it does not help neutralize the acid that is in your esophagus causing the acid reflux. By taking it in the liquid form it can neutralize that acid as it passes through the esophagus.
Your symptoms, including the difficulty breathing are not unusual and will pass with time.

 

Lansoprazole (same as Prevacid) lists no drug interaction with Cymbalta. Lansoprazole is eliminated from the body by the liver using the CYP2C19 and 3A4 metabolism while Cymbalta is eliminated by the liver using the CYP1A2 and CYP2D6 metabolism so there should be no drug interaction or effects on Cymbalta absorption. I found no conclusive studies in the medical journals however.
As far as a natural antacid I can only pass on what I use. i bought food grade calcium carbonate (same as what is used in tums) from a beer making supply store. I use 1/4 teaspoons in about 50 ml of water, shake and drink. It works well and you miss out on the artificial flavorings, colorings, preservatives etc in the Tums. Also when taking magnesium it will lower calcium levels in the blood (they compete with each other) so taking some additional calcium in your diet is a good idea. To much magnesium in hte blood can increase the risk of anxiety as well so it is a good idea to het your serum levels of calcium and magnesium checked every 6 months.


#7 Polly38

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Posted 27 September 2019 - 09:34 AM

I also, I had an endoscopy last week which showed I have 2 polyps in my stomach and my oesophagus is inflamed. The doctor said I could take Zantac or Lansoprazole. Is it OK to take Lansoprazole as I need to take something for the acid. Or can you recommend anything natural instead?

Thank you.

#8 invalidusername

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Posted 27 September 2019 - 10:05 AM

You are very welcome Polly.

 

Hat has given you a very substantial reply regarding your stomach issues. Your chest and stomach pain will indeed be the acid and you need to make sure that what you take will not disrupt the Duloxetine. Follow the advice above to safely reduce the acid.

 

The polyps generally do not cause any symptoms - it will be the acid causing the inflammation. 

 

I assume that there has been surgery put in place to remove the polyps? You don't really want to leave these in place - they need to be removed at the soonest opportunity.

 

Furthermore, going on the new information, it will be best to leave the ginger as this can cause more discomfort with the acid, but the Zantac is not a good idea. You need to show your Doc the latest on the findings. I will find the post for you so you can print out the references for him/her.


#9 invalidusername

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Posted 27 September 2019 - 10:13 AM

Hat where is that post about Zantac? I can't find it anywhere!! 

 

Won't be helping that I am functioning on 3 and a bit hours sleep today.


#10 invalidusername

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Posted 27 September 2019 - 10:40 AM

Found it :)

 

https://www.cymbalta...s-left/?p=86621


#11 Polly38

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Posted 27 September 2019 - 02:09 PM

IUN and Hat

Thanks so much for your replies. You are both so knowledgeable! Thanks for the advice about getting on top of the acid reflux. I will give it a try.

I have also been taking CBD oil, which is great for the anxiety, but when I took it earlier I noticed the burning pain behind my breastbone got worse. Is it possible that the CBD could exacerbate this symptom?

It's reassuring to know that the shortness of breath is part of the withdrawal. Do you know what causes it and how long it will last?

IUN - you said in your first reply that I had obviously had a bad reaction to Duloxetine with the pains in my stomach. Would it not be better to decrease quicker to get this reaction over with? The other withdrawals I'm getting are quite manageable.

Thanks so much again.

Polly

#12 Polly38

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Posted 27 September 2019 - 02:45 PM

Hi

Sorry me again. I have been looking at natural supplements for my stomach issues as I have had food sensitivities for a few years an I suspect I have a leaky gut. Would the formula below be ok to take whilst weaning off Duloxetine?

https://images-na.ss..._AC_SL1500_.jpg

Thanks again.

#13 fishinghat

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Posted 27 September 2019 - 02:59 PM

"I have also been taking CBD oil, which is great for the anxiety, but when I took it earlier I noticed the burning pain behind my breastbone got worse. Is it possible that the CBD could exacerbate this symptom? "

Sorry, don't know much about CBD oil. I will leave that to IUN, he is our expert on that subject.

"It's reassuring to know that the shortness of breath is part of the withdrawal. Do you know what causes it and how long it will last?"

It is caused by adrenaline and a condition called respiratory acidosis. Breathing tends to become shallower and faster during heavy stress and that leads to CO2 buildup in the body an a decrease in blood pH, less oxygen carried to the body and even faster breathing. Deep breathing exercises help that. It usually fades as the anxiety fades and that can be a couple weeks or several months depending on how bad your withdrawal is.

Supplement for leaky gut. Some of these supplements can cause heart burn (such as the turmeric) others can bring on allergic reactions in some people and others have not been well studied. Just my opinion but there are so many things that can go wrong with starting on a complex supplement. I prefer to take one component at a time so I know what works and what causes more problems. Just my opinion.

#14 Polly38

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Posted 27 September 2019 - 03:08 PM

Thanks so much Hat. I was thinking of trying L Glutamine as that is good for leaky gut. Will do some more research.

As the Duloxetine has upset my digestion for so long would it be better to wean off a bit faster (for example, removing 2 beads a day) or is it better to stabilise for a bit? Sorry to ask again but it is so frustrating that it's going to take me months to wean off something I was only on for 4 weeks. This year has been a total write off for me and I just want to feel well again.

Thanks again

#15 invalidusername

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Posted 27 September 2019 - 04:31 PM

What you are saying about the quicker withdrawal is a bit of a catch 22 situation. There is a fine line between riding the symptoms out and stopping quicker - a sort of tearing off the band aid kind of approach. This comes down to how tolerant you are of the symptoms, but at the same time, you have to be mindful that just because you stop sooner, the symptoms do not necessarily quit sooner. The honest answer is that no-one can be 100% sure. In all probability you might find the symptoms exacerbate quicker on a faster taper, but given your type of reaction, I would more-or-less guarantee that your symptoms would get worse for this briefer time.

 

There is a lot of information about this, and the breathing in the ebook which you can get from here;

 

https://www.cymbalta...tion-the-ebook/

 

Regarding the CBD - can you tell me how you are taking it? Solids, liquid, under the tongue etc... and the strength?

 

We all know just how horrible it can be. I was in your situation only having been on the stuff for 10 weeks - but just imagine if we had stayed on it any longer... we would both be in a real state then. But we have many members who are proof of just how resilient we can be... Hat, Gail and LDN come to mind if you want to feel better about your stories and read other peoples woes :D

 

This forum is a great place, with great people and I am proud to have become a family member here... 


#16 Polly38

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Posted 27 September 2019 - 05:49 PM

Thanks IUN. I am taking CBD drops. The strength is 10%/1000mg. I will take your advice about holding on 32 beads for a few days to see how I go but I thought I would just ask the question. The worst symptoms for me are the stomach pains and shortness of breath but hopefully these will pass soon.

Did you get the shortness of breath? Thanks again.

#17 invalidusername

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Posted 27 September 2019 - 07:33 PM

I sincerely doubt the CBD is causing any of these issues given the withdrawal timing as well. If anything, the chemical compound of CBD should serve to reduce the symptoms as it has anti-secretion properties. That is not to say that it would not have an adverse affect is some people - but again, the odds are very low. 

 

I asked how you administer it as I would be interested to see if there was any difference if taking the oil sublingually (under tongue) or drinking, but I unless you notice some manner of correlation, in that you have the chest pains within 30-60 minutes after taking the dose, this is going to be the withdrawal.

 

No - fortunately, I did not have any shortness of breath...


#18 Polly38

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Posted 28 September 2019 - 05:07 AM

Thanks IUN.

I have been reading about NAC l cysteine (I'm not sure how you spell it) and reports indicate that it is effective for shortness of breath. Do you know anything about this?

FH - you mentioned respiratory acidosis. Does this mean that my body is acidic at the moment and it's worth going down the alkaline route with my diet and supplements or alkaline water?

Thanks.

#19 invalidusername

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Posted 28 September 2019 - 06:40 AM

Hat has read up a fair bit about NAC and will be the one to answer that... he'll be along later.


#20 fishinghat

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Posted 28 September 2019 - 08:01 AM

NAC (N-acetylcysteine is a strong natural antioxidant which helps with many conditions (like most antioxidants). I am not familiar with it helping shortness of breath but I can check into it for you. Many find it helpful when going through withdrawal.

The respiratory acidosis only effects the acidity of the blood not of the rest of the body. Changing to an alkaline approach to your diet will nit help. It is a matter of breathing deeper to get more co2 out of the lungs and that will return the blood pH to a more normal state.

#21 Polly38

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Posted 28 September 2019 - 08:11 AM

Thanks FH and IUN.

FH - interestingly, I have been having breathing physio for shallow breathing and try to practice my breathing exercises every day. It has been harder to practice since coming off Duloxetine.

I held at 32 beads today but my stomach feels worse than ever🙄. It feels like someone is twisting my insides and is making me feel very uncomfortable in my own skin. It's also causing me to breathe very shallow. I have to yawn very hard to take a deep breath. It's like a neverending rollercoaster and I want to get off!

No other withdrawals though😬.

#22 fishinghat

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Posted 28 September 2019 - 08:28 AM

Hi Polly

I couldn't find anything in the medical journals that directly related to the use of NAC to treat respiratory acidosis. But, I did find considerable research that demonstrates its usefulness to help with breathing difficulties from other conditions (COPD, asthma, etc). It shouldn't hurt anything to give it a try. Please let us know how it turns out if you give it a go.

Ahh, those terrible stomach problems. I remember living for a month off of Pepto and Imodium AD. I found that 1/2 tablet of Imodium worked well for me in helping control that pain. Be careful not to overdo it though as it can lead to constipation.

#23 invalidusername

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Posted 28 September 2019 - 09:50 AM

I really feel for you Polly - truly I do. Wishing there was something else I could do to help you with the pain.

 

If you can stay on the present dose for just a few days just to see how things fair - if we don't get any response, it might be a fast track withdrawal, but I really cannot condone that course of action until we have seen if you will stabalise. I do not want it to get any worse for you.

 

So, today is day 1 of holding... if there has been no improvement by Monday evening, I would ask you to add just 5 beads. Then if nothing gets better by Thursday, then we need to discuss moving quicker. If there is no improvement from those 5 beads, that is a good enough indication that the speed of the withdrawal is not a factor in the symptoms.

 

Would you agree Hat? Or do you think there is any distance of raising dose further?


#24 fishinghat

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Posted 28 September 2019 - 10:05 AM

No Monday, sounds good. Meanwhile see if you can make any difference using pepto or Imodium.

#25 Polly38

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Posted 28 September 2019 - 10:14 AM

Thanks so much IUN and FH. I have just bought some Imodium so will try half when I get home. I have also got some Buscopan for IBS cramps, so will try that if the Imodium doesn't work (the pharmacist recommended it).

The best way to describe it is it's like the anxiety is in my stomach and it's making me hold my breath 🙄

#26 invalidusername

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Posted 28 September 2019 - 12:57 PM

The best way to describe it is it's like the anxiety is in my stomach and it's making me hold my breath

 

Now that sounds familiar - it is almost like you forget to breathe...


#27 Polly38

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Posted 28 September 2019 - 01:06 PM

That's exactly it IUN! I have to keep reminding myself it will pass eventually and I'm going to be fine😁🙄

#28 invalidusername

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Posted 28 September 2019 - 01:25 PM

OK then - yes - I did have this! It did pass... :)


#29 fishinghat

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Posted 28 September 2019 - 04:36 PM

There are some things that you can do to further help. Warm pad on the stomach (dry heat and not hot wet towels). Never drink cold or hot liquids when painful. Lukewarm only. Both were a big help to me.


#30 Polly38

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Posted 28 September 2019 - 04:40 PM

Thanks FH and I will let you know how it goes with the NAC.



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