117 replies to this topic

[invalidusername]

LOL

 

That is good information for Hat and myself though - thank you. It is good to know some facts and figures that tie in with withdrawal symptoms.

[DThiessen]

Very interesting about the levels as you say 130 ish is low - she even did a dexamethasone suppression test that tests for tumors (if the test reduces the cortisol in the blood then no tumor - and of course my test reduced it ) all the way back to 135 and she said that it was STILL HIGH so she is "dumbfounded and concerned still - I want you to go on prednisone for as long as you can" - she should change careers. This is an endocrinologist we're talking about here. Ridiculous. I must say my family physician said yah that's pretty high - but you seem to be completely healthy otherwise so I suppose once your less stressed that will come down.. so yah. And here the endo was just awe struck by my morning levels. 

[invalidusername]

Prednisone should be the last call for a number of conditions. It screws up the immune system. This is what they wanted to put me on too. Never went on it and I'm doing just fine...

 

I should say for safety sake that this drug has it place, but not in this instance. Under extreme circumstances where the immunity can be maintained and be a suitable trade-off for the benefit it will give the patient, then so be it. But this class of drug should not be dished out willy-nilly...

[fishinghat]

My phD therapist went to med school in school in 2012. She just finished with her MD in psychiatry. She said even with the specialty of psychiatry the only real emphasis on any withdrawals is for common addictive drugs and little to no information on antidepressant drugs. I am going to be using her services from now in and I have already told her to be ready as I will be teaching her about psychiatric meds and withdrawal. lol

Steroids, idiots. Your response was absolutely correct DT.

[DThiessen]

Haha oh boy, I am sure she will be astonished at some of the info she will learn from you! Crazy but yep I believe there is little to no emphasis on it as it is all I have witnessed in the medical community. 

 

Yes - steroids are so so bad unless they are damn sure they are warranted. And I am 105 lb, thin, small boned woman where osteoporosis runs in the family big time and she didn't even consider that when mentioning the prednisone WHICH IS REALLY NOT GOOD for bones to begin with. Really to be honest and as we have gathered - she considered nothing, not a single thing small or big - when wanting me to take prednisone at the age of 27 until death. Makes me shiver. 

[fishinghat]

"And I am 105 lb, thin, small boned woman"

That brings up another good point doses are based on an average person - male, 150 lbs and around 5' 10".

They sure never saw me. I don't fit that mold. lol

And they wonder why meds work on some people and not others.

[invalidusername]

LOL - you say that Hat - and knowing that we are both well over the average, but how come a 3.25gm dose of Kratom is therapeutic for me, but my 5'4" wife needs 6gm

[DThiessen]

Hahaha all so true. They have to stop treating everyone as if there is only 1 human body type. HONESTLY BRUTAL

[invalidusername]

There are too many variables DT. It is not even a case of body type. When it comes to most medication it is purely subjectivity. Hat has got a few extra pounds on me, but I may well have a higher BMI despite that... 

 

It all comes down to the dollar. It is far easier to consider us as a load of white mice

[Lovey]

Why does withdrawl raise cortisol levels? How is the adrenal gland involved? I will google too but you all have good knowledge. I took 3 extra beads today and a 1mg xanax. In a very very stressful situation and my mental state has been poor last few days. Hopefully it will pass very soon. The xanax helped a lot. I don't remember if I took my p.m. dose of cymbalta so that's a little scary. OVERLOAD!!!!

[Lovey]

I remember that I did not take my 5 pm dose so I did take it a few hours late. An interesting side note- I feel very uncoordinated and clumsy coming off this drug. Which is very opposite to my natural state. I know it will improve in time, when the rewiring job is complete and all the lights are back on. Its a curiosity for sure. I enjoyed reading the comments you all wrote today. I feel quite lonely. Can someone talk to me?

[fishinghat]

"I feel quite lonely. Can someone talk to me? "

You posted that and then everyone disappeared. I feel bad about that. Sorry.

The nights can be terrifying with doubts and fear. I am hoping you feel better today.

"Cortisol is a steroid hormone, in the glucocorticoid class of hormones. It is produced in many animals mainly by the zona fasciculata of the adrenal cortex within the adrenal gland.[1] It is produced in other tissues in lower quantities.[2] It is released with a diurnal (daily) cycle and its release is increased in response to stress and low blood-glucose concentration. It functions to increase blood sugar through gluconeogenesis, to suppress the immune system, and to aid in the metabolism of fat, protein, and carbohydrates.[3] It also decreases bone formation.[4]"

 

Wiki

[invalidusername]

Yes - additional apologies. This post got taken over a bit in the last 24 hours on a tangent.

 

There is a lot in the eBook which explains the above phenomenon. People often forget when they have taken doses of various meds. The odd one here and there isn't a problem, but if you are frequently forgetful then you need a system. Most opt for those pill canisters with the day/time on them.

[DThiessen]

I just seen this now! Had I been online last night I would have replied to you saying I had the same kind of night Hrk, here was my night:

 

Prickling crawling skin

Hynpic Jerks that made my heart rate go up to 120 bpm for 3 hours before it started to come down. The hypnic jerks lasted this long as well. In the middle of the night I finally had to cave and take a seroquel to sleep because the jerks weren't stopping. It literally felt like I was seizuring laying in bed for hours. It was hell. I felt depressed, scared (high heart rate makes me have fear), depressed, borderling suicidal, had a severe migraine and was bawling, over obssesing about my cortisol levels. Yep so that was my night. 

 

In regards to your depth perception- yes TOTALLY normal. I had that so bad that I would go grocery shopping, look at a bunch of bananas, and not be able to grab them because my arm wanted to reach either in front of or too far from the actual bunch of bananas. I thought I was dying. 

 

All normal. I feel you, this week has been rough again. 

[DThiessen]

In regards to the cortisol, here is some interesting stuff. I had this exact testing done and the exact results consistent with AD withdrawal. 

 

https://www.ncbi.nlm.../pubmed/3857651

 

https://deepblue.lib...e=1&isAllowed=y

[invalidusername]

I've not known hypnic jerks be quite that bad. Are you sure it is not a mild form of Psuedo non-epileptic seizure (PNES)?

[fishinghat]

Hypnic jerks, by definition only occur as you are trying to fall asleep where Psuedo non-epileptic seizure can occur any time of day.

[invalidusername]

Yes, absolutely Hat. The name comes from the state at which it occurs known as the hypnagogic state, which is half awake/half asleep, and can be during both morning and night, but generally the jerks occur getting off to sleep. 

 

It is the mention of seizure-type behaviour as jerks tend to be short lived and not anything like as spasmodic as PNES seizures.

 

I have both DT, so feel free to ask questions!

[DThiessen]

Yes it is every time I start to dream and bam I get jolted awake. I probably made it sound super exaggerated no, they're definitely the jerks it was just so brutal because I fell asleep like probably 19 or so different times and was jolted at the same second. There was no shaking no just the sleep starts. Just my muscles got sore after so many of them and I was frustrated

[invalidusername]

Yup - that's the hypnic jerks alright. My combination of meditation and Kratom keeps them at bay for the most part...

[Lovey]

Hi friends, I read about your night DT, sooo sorry to hear! I've been better today. I am leaning on xanax and it is very helpful. Life feels a little more manageable. The personal stress causing crisis of the past week I alluded to, seems to be somewhat resolved, thank God. It really knocked me into a tailspin. I am learning to trust God more. Its snowing here in Illinois on Halloween. I don't mind it. Its pretty. Celebrating my victories. Work is more plentiful, and my body pains have gone down a lot. My rash is almost totally gone too! Thanks for talking to me everyone. even just to say hi. This is a lonely part of the journey, the medicine withdrawl and rewiring process. Love to all.

[invalidusername]

Thanks for the update Hrk, and so very happy to hear about the improvements - especially the stress element. This is, after all, the one thing you really need to keep check on. We often don't realise just how out of control our stress reserves become during withdrawal. Our tolerance all but disappears, yet it is so difficult to draw a line under things and walk away, but you really must.

 

This is the part you have been waiting for - a break in the clouds. Eyes on the end of it now it is in sight, and keep trusting in Him.

[Lovey]

Thx! To clarify, still have the critter crawl on the skin. Just healing from an allergic reaction rash I've had concurrently. Ears high pitched ringing is another miserable woe...

Many successes today. Productive at work, paid bills, was helpful to others, and much more. Hope we all have a good night sleep. DT I am praying hard for you sister!

[DThiessen]

I had an awful night the hypnic jerks were severe again and went to bed at 830 and literally watched the clock until 630. I was at my parents house so I asked my mom for one of her sleeping pills because I thought this is insane already and it gave me hallucinations auditory and sensory and I'm laying here still, awake, and just coming down from it. I am beside myself and bawling. I haven't slept in days and I dont know what to do. The melatonin did not work

[invalidusername]

Whereabouts in the world are you DT?

 

Under the circumstances you so vividly describe, and strictly for medicinal purposes, might I suggest you try Kratom. It has been a lifesaver for the wife and myself. I am convinced you will find it helpful.

 

Just as a disclaimer, if you have previously been partial to addictive substances, I would proceed with caution.

[invalidusername]

Hrk - well done for keeping going - that for sure deserves a good pat on the back.

 

I also know all about tinnitus, but fortunately mine only gets that bad when stress is the same. I do have a high pitched whistle in my right ear all the time, courtesy of using power tools on cars for too long without ear protection, but fortunately I saw sense before it got too bad. Lost 25% that side, so could be a lot worse... but if you did not have it before, then it will pass for sure. There are serotonin receptors in the auditory areas which are affected by withdrawal.

[DThiessen]

I am in Canada, I wonder if they sell it here... I will definitely have to look into that. And no have never had a substance use problem.

[invalidusername]

Yes - you are fine in Canada;

 

https://bestkratomca...-reviews-guide/

 

I am more than happy to talk you through every aspect of this such that it is administered safely. I only condone use of this for medicinal purposes. Those who use it recreationally are just asking for trouble, but if you use it with the express intent to aid your symptoms, then I would certainly recommend it.

 

Again, ask any questions. I went through everything with a fine toothcomb last year before my first order. I have been taking it for a year now and wouldn't (NOT couldn't) be without it.

[invalidusername]

I knew this would happen and I am not going to get involved in a debate. But people who are partial to benzos are partial to getting addicted. They would be the wrong people to use Kratom to withdraw. 

 

People make your own mind up, but I will not be told I am advocating some sort of recreational drug when this is clearly not the case. Take information from the source;

 

https://www.american...org/update.html

 

With greatest respect GardenLady - and I DO mean that - the link you provide is 3 years out of date before any major tests had been made across licensed or academic institutions in America in terms of its medicinal value. Prior to this is was widely known that drug companies would hire such places to purportedly state facts or its toxicity and danger to health. This can all be read on the AKA. 

 

People owe their lives to it, but ONLY WHEN USED RESPONSIBLY.

 

From my own perspective, I use it to control my seizures caused by Cymbalta. My wife cannot hold me during an episode, but a small dose of Kratom cures me in minutes. So it is that, or call an ambulance out, cost the tax-payer over £200 and potentially use a service that could be used to help another person. I just ask people to think... anything used irresponsibly is prone to being addictive, and this is why I add a disclaimer to all of my posts.