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Withdrawal Getting Worse 3 Weeks In?


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#541 invalidusername

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Posted 24 September 2020 - 06:22 PM

Awesome!! 8 hours kip!! So happy for you my green friend!

 

I remember the bathroom conundrum. Should I go? Will I fall back asleep with a half full bladder? If I get up and go, surely I will wake up? But I have had a rule of no screens at least an hour before sleep. I have also moved my meditation to earlier in the evening as I find myself falling asleep when I do it later on. 


#542 Mxpro32

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Posted 24 September 2020 - 06:44 PM

wow. 8 hours, thats awesome.  I'm a little jealous.  I've been really tempted lately too to try another medication.  I'm miserable and I don't feel like I'm getting better.  the only thing stopping me is how much misery Ive already gone through getting off of cymbalta.  I never want to go through that again. but I guess I'm still going through it.  


#543 frog

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Posted 25 September 2020 - 01:20 PM

Don't be too jealous. I think it was a fluke. I did all the same stuff again last night (although I went to bed a couple hours later) and had a crappy night. I felt very sleepy and fine at bedtime, fell asleep around 1am, woke up at 2am to use the bathroom, fell back asleep, woke up at 6:30am from an anxious dream. Couldn't fall asleep after that, was too tense inside and couldn't relax. I always try to focus on my breathing and count my breaths to chase the anxiety away but it just doesn't work when it comes to sleep. 

 

This week has definitely been a step back in terms of the inner tension and anxiety coming back. I had a stretch of several weeks where I was feeling so much more peaceful and at ease during the day. No chest tightness, no breathing issues,  Now I'm all tense and everything feels scary and impossible again. I'm sure it'll pass but the lack of permanence is frustrating. And now I'm back to feeling crappy as a I wait for whatever this phase is to pass. Today I mostly feel like crying which I haven't felt in a while. I have a haircut appt today and going out to dinner with my husband tomorrow. When I made both these reservations a couple weeks ago I was feeling confident and excited about both. Now they're here and I'm feeling anxious and my chest is fluttering and I'm getting jittery. 

 

I'm just so sick and tired of the emotional rollercoaster. The downs don't make me feel like I've lost utter control of my body and brain anymore, so I feel like I shouldn't be complaining, but it still sucks going through stretches of time where for no reason at all you are drained of your mental and emotional strength and feel weak and literally scared of leaving your house for no identifiable reason. i think this is why it's so difficult talking to doctors about this. They make me feel like I have a permanent anxiety disorder but clearly it's kind of intermittent. I feel like they don't know how to address something like this because it's unlike what they typically see. 

 

Mxpro regarding going on another medication, the way I look at it, that option will always be available. There's no rush to say yes. The answer may become more clear with time. You just got off a benzo, I think it's ok to take pressure off yourself to make any major decision about what to do next. Give it at least a month and see if things are changing. 


#544 invalidusername

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Posted 25 September 2020 - 05:31 PM

Hmmm - define fluke my dear...

 

Neurologically speaking it cannot exist. Try your best to focus on the fact that your brain was wired the right way which let you get that sleep. If it happened once, it can happen again. Not trying to be all "therapist" on you, but this is how it works a lot of the time.

 

But I really understand that it is a case that you feel out of control. I really understand that. Been there of course. And God knows you have been there long enough. Unfortunately you have become conditioned as a result of the damage from the drugs, just like my adrenaline did. I went October through to about June before it settled. I thought it would never end. Regardless, we are here for you - always.

 

"Mxpro regarding going on another medication, the way I look at it, that option will always be available. There's no rush to say yes. The answer may become more clear with time. You just got off a benzo, I think it's ok to take pressure off yourself to make any major decision about what to do next. Give it at least a month and see if things are changing."

 

Very good advice there to MX.


#545 frog

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Posted 26 September 2020 - 12:50 PM

Haha I guess just that it worked once and then the very same things didn't work the next day. You're right that makes me feel out of control. And it sounds like having this level of sleeping issues nearly a year out is rare so it makes me anxious that something is wrong. And of course regardless of the total hours of sleep I can't actually fall asleep without the help of medication. Makes sense though if I can't even stay asleep how would I be able to fall asleep in the first place lol. Last night was a bit better. Was asleep about 7 hours, woke up around 7:30am, had to use the bathroom as always then was lying there with random thoughts starting to creep in as they do, but I must have dozed off for another 30 or so minutes which was super nice!


#546 invalidusername

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Posted 26 September 2020 - 06:33 PM

OK... so that is another good night - so soon after the other. 

 

And try not to think it has been an entire year when there are days where it has improved. Try to think that is has been on and off for a year, rather than a persistent problem for a year. Little positives!!


#547 frog

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Posted 27 September 2020 - 03:18 PM

That's a great point. It's just that it's so up and down and I want so badly to try to pin down what I can do to make it better, but there's been no magic bullet. Last night wasn't that great. I went to bed around 1am (probably too late for me tbh) I was pretty zonked and couldn't keep my eyes open while I was trying to read my book in bed, but still woke up right before 7am. I had 2 glasses of wine with dinner so maybe that was the culprit. 

 

I know all of this ties back to some subconscious anxiety though. I frequently wake up out of unpleasant dreams. Not necessarily nightmares, but kind of anxious uncomfortable dreams. Like my brain is processing all these random things that I don't even necessarily think about generally. Funny enough while on Cymbalta I very rarely had dreams, or at least none that I could remember having. Like I was saying before sometimes it feels like my body now has a different idea of what my "normal" level of anxiety should be, and it's higher than it was before Cymbalta, and is screwing with my body. I've definitely tossed around the idea of taking some low dose of an SSRI to make this all go away and feel normal again


#548 invalidusername

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Posted 27 September 2020 - 05:58 PM

Alcohol can be a funny thing - I can easily stay away from the stuff now. I never know what it might do. 

 

I have exactly the same sort of dreams. And I tell you, after 6 in a row this week, I had just had enough. I would wake up and fear nodding back off. Stress is to blame. Just as is the reason for my staying in bed all day today. Combination of zero energy and very scared of phone ringing, messages coming through, whatsapp pinging at me... I am so bloody fragile. 

 

"it feels like my body now has a different idea of what my "normal" level of anxiety should be"

 

It is not a feeling, that is what has happened. And at present, you are in a position where you are going with it, thus strengthening the synaptic bond. Viscous circle. Its all in the acceptance. But it is so so difficult, and my every sympathy. Even today, I know it will pass and just trying to tell myself that a couple more days like this and I will be back to normal, but I just don't want to be here in this state! It's my own damn fault. Doing 11 hour days - silly IUN.


#549 frog

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Posted 28 September 2020 - 11:26 AM

So I'm reinforcing the anxiety and making it worse? I'm not really sure how I would not do that? I already try to push through it, ignore it, etc. and do whatever it is that I want to do. And every time I do I end up being completely fine in the moment. So it's always just a lot of anticipatory anxiety about nothing in particular. Just the anticipation of "something." I don't really know how to break through it in a more permanent way


#550 fishinghat

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Posted 28 September 2020 - 01:18 PM

Frog

 

I am a little confused why you are worried about the sleep. You dropped your Seroquel from 1 pill to 2 pills on Sept 20th. This is just a typical withdrawal from Seroquel that usually lasted 2 to 3 months for me. It has only been a week so far and of course your nerves are still sensitive since the Cymbalta withdrawal. Hang in there.


#551 frog

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Posted 28 September 2020 - 02:37 PM

I actually dropped the Seroquel from 2 to 1 pill back in July and then came off the night time gabapentin by mid August. So it's been a good while now actually. I was only on 300mg gabapentin and I had pretty much no issues while I was coming off it. But it does seem like it was helping me to stay asleep longer. When I tapered down the Seroquel but was still taking gabapentin at night I was sleeping 7-8 hours every single night. Now over the past month it's been kind of all over the place. 


#552 fishinghat

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Posted 28 September 2020 - 04:04 PM

Thanks for the clarification. getting old is tough. It seems like I am always misinterpreting your posts.  lol

 

So many months off Cymbalta but I am sure the nervous system is still sensitive.

 

Cut Seroquel by 50% about 2 months ago so probably still some after effects from that for about another month.

 

Stopped nighttime gabapentin in mid-August so still have 1 or 2 months of that to deal with. 

 

Now you know why drs say to wait 2 years to do another wean off a drug. With the sensitivity of your nervous system due to the Cymbalta withdrawal those time estimates of mine may be a little quick. Take it easy on yourself and don't fight it. You can do this.


#553 invalidusername

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Posted 28 September 2020 - 05:21 PM

Frog - isn't it always the way! Anxiety is forever having us make us believe that something awful is going to happen and it is "loosing the fear of the feeling" that must be done. It is SO difficult. And you have probably heard it so many times already, but it is just a feeling. Nothing more. Your brain is rewired and you are having to unscramble an egg in effect. You need to get to the point where you are entering a situation thinking "I don't give a f***, what will happen will happen". This is how to get your brain out of this mindset.

 

It is not thinking right because it has been reprogrammed. The chimp paradox is an excellent read if you haven't already been there. It breaks down the psychology of anxiety to amazing bite-size metaphors. It explains why you are cutting out the prefrontal cortex which is the reasoning and going straight to the hippocampus which feeds off stuff that is done by default. The reason being is that the neurons that fire, reach the h/c quicker than the frontal lobe, so it is going to happen.

 

Unfortunately it takes time. I should know, I have been there twice and overcome it. But you have to live it, breathe it - everything until it sticks.

 

If you need reading material, I have stacks that has worked for me. 


#554 frog

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Posted 28 September 2020 - 06:52 PM

I hear ya IUN. And as I said most of the time I feel like I do push through the anxiety and just go do things and they end up being completely fine. Nothing to be scared of, exactly as I predicted. it just doesn't seem like that message sticks. The next time it's exactly the same thing all over again!


#555 invalidusername

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Posted 29 September 2020 - 07:24 PM

Yup - thats it exactly. I have a really good book that I think you will find useful. Very easy to pick up and read little parts.

 

If you are happy to, PM me an email I can send to and I will get a copy over to you. 


#556 Mxpro32

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Posted 29 September 2020 - 11:25 PM

What’s the book?  I might want to read it


#557 frog

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Posted 30 September 2020 - 11:55 AM

Yes curious about the book as well!

 

My therapist suggested to journal more actively. Write about situations where I felt all this anticipatory anxiety and then how I felt during and after and whether anything I was anxious about even happened. The anticipatory anxiety stemming from a need to preplan everything because my brain has determined over the years that this is a beneficial strategy to me to avoid unpleasant situations. The journaling would be to try to internalize that its not actually helpful at all so it is not necessary


#558 fishinghat

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Posted 30 September 2020 - 12:50 PM

My therapist also had me start a journal as well after my nervous breakdown. It really helped me identify patterns of what caused my condition to worsen. It also was very helpful in keeping track of when O changed meds, went up or down on does as I sure couldn't trust my memory.  lol


#559 invalidusername

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Posted 30 September 2020 - 06:22 PM

We can never trust your memory Hat... LOL :D

 

Frog/MX - check your inboxes!





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