260 replies to this topic

[fishinghat]

1. While Prozac has helped some it has also not worked for some as well. If that is what you felt was necessary then so be it. We are behind you 100%. The ups and downs are normal and from where you are at I would say you will feel quite a bit better in about 2 months. Definitely more good days and less bad days. Frog is right. If you had one good day you will have another and another. 
 
2. "She acknowledges post acute w/d and wants me to have a good 3-6 months before we think about a SLOW taper off Zyprexa."

I fully agree.

3. The down turn today was probably not from any Prozac withdrawal. These swings are classic for many types of withdrawal. The body finally was able to control your neurotransmitters for that good day but when the next day came if overcompensated and the neurotransmitters went haywire. This is very common.

4. No damage. You are showing some set improvements and they will continue to improve. Don't worry.

5. I agree with the dr. Should get better in a few days.

Actually, I think you are right on schedule Driven. The coming off the Prozac is not a big deal to me. It is less withdrawal to deal with later and also less drugs for your body to handle in the mean time.

Keep track of the good periods and you will see a steady uptick in those as time goes on. Just remember when you do have a good day don't overdo it and send yourself backwards into a relapse.

[invalidusername]

1. We all have a limited and I can perfectly understand and respect that. You made the decision to do a u-turn as you felt that was the best thing to do. No hard knocks from me about that. Maybe it would have evened itself out, maybe not - but the worst thing you can do is question that further. You did what you felt was the most beneficial in the situation - and that is the right decision.

 

2. This is good news - I am not sure that 6 months would be needed in my opinion. As Hat has said before, once the anxiety levels off, the sleep will be that much easier. I would hope more for the 3 months side of that coin.

 

3. I'v been waiting to hear that your vision has a good day - that really pleases me to hear that. Go easy on the buzz that you have had from this. As you know there will be windows - don't loose sight of the neutrality of the moment. A lot of people get stuck in black and white thinking during protracted withdrawal and they get pulled down just because they are not having a good day - but the day itself might be neutral. By all means enjoy the times, but keep perspective.

 

4. Sincerely doubt that.

 

5. I personally would have done one at a time, You have a lot of stop/starting going on here - but lets see what happens over the next couple of weeks.

[Driven]

Guys,

As always, I appreciate the insight.  Your input has been a real positive factor in my slow recovery w/ this withdrawal.  More than you know.  I am continuously humbled by the power and severity of it all, as well as your willingness to help someone in a time of crisis.  Thank you!  My wife, kids, and other immediate family are all trying to make sense of all this and it is incredibly hard (actually impossible) for them to comprehend.  I pray every day that they continue to have patience as healing happens.  Life is happening all around me and it feels like I am dog paddling to stay alive.  The wave feels pretty intense right now but i think it is partly me parting ways with the Prozac.

 

Couple things on top of my mind...

1. Prozac - I am completely off as of Sunday, after alternating a tiny 2.5mg dose every other day last week.  That was after a week of 2.5/day which was after a week of 5mg per day.  I am feeling pretty intense dizziness, nausea, and a sizable headache (head feels VERY heavy) that feels fairly different than what I'd consider "withdrawal normal".  I'm guessing it has to do with stopping the Prozac and I'm HOPING it will be a bit easy on me and not cause more unwanted grief.  My p-doc stated I may have a rough week or so coming up which is holding true so far.  I just don't want to do more harm to my healing brain and I'm so dang apprehensive about coming off a drug too fast.  Again, I was on it 4.5 weeks total with the first 2 weeks being highest at 10mg, then 5mg...etc.  Let me know if you see anything alarming here...If you have any experience with dealing with a w/d within a w/d.  Ugh. 

 

2. Low mood / Sadness - I've had some pretty intense waves of hopelessness in the last 4-5 days.  I broke down and cried to my wife a couple of times in the last week.  I've really struggled with keeping my hopes up.  I'm hoping this is also a byproduct of my emotions running high with the serotonin changes w/ Prozac..and a short-term issue.  It does pass in time but not completely.  Of course it won't.  I am still in a lot of physical pain/discomfort.

 

3. Vision - This is a tough one.  My vision has gotten a tad worse again...it just feels funky the last few days.  I have MORE vitreous floaters than when I talked about them in earlier posts.  There is a lot of them and it's like I'm fighting through cobwebs when looking at my computer screen.  I am hydrating like crazy to see if that helps calm things a bit.  There are a couple larger floaters that sit right in the center of my field of vision.  My doctor says no correlation with medication but I know that is completely false.  Maybe it has to do with anxiety but it all leads back to medication in my thinking.  I've been told that the floaters will settle with time and be lower in my field of vision which is what I'm hoping for.  The depth perception and other issues have still been a bit better, with the exception of feeling pretty spaced out which I again am contributing hopefully to the Prozac.  My logic is that the my vision improved a bit with the Prozac due to increased serotonin and then digressed a bit again coming off it.  I am thinking that my brain at least had it right for awhile w/ the Prozac and should continue to slowly improve as more slow healing happens with a natural increase of serotonin production w/out any drugs.  I've had a good day or two in the last couple weeks so I'm trying to listen to what you guys are saying..."more good days will come."

 

4.    Fear.  We talk about it a lot but man it is intense for me.  My fear pertains to not being able to recover and not ever being the husband or father that I was before Cymbalta.  I wake up thinking "is this the new normal?"...."why am I not seeing more windows?"..."It seems I'm proving to be on the long end of recovery...it's been 6 months and is still feel like complete hell".I am struggling with any memory of pre-Cymbalta which is pretty much my entire life up until April of last year when I started the drug.  I've learned a bit about myself in this whole process.  I guess I've always channeled and OCD type behavior into work, etc and it has helped in my success.  In this case, it seems any OCD behavior can become heightened in w/d.  I am in constant state of wanting to "fix it" which I don't really know how other than TIME.  I've spent SO MUCH time trying to research what is happening and what various forums are stating that it has spun me out a bit.  I have also struggled with obsessing about the negative.  There are many sad stories on "Surviving Antidepressants" etc that almost take my breath away.  It seems healing happens but there are so many people that seem to take several years to recover that post on that site...and maybe some that don't ever recover.  I try to fend off the negative thinking but it has been a real struggle.  Is this a normal feeling to have?  

 

5.  When will I be over the hump? I keep reminding myself that people have suffered a very long time in some cases.  At 6 months off, I'm so hopeful that you are right FH that I will be feeling better in the next couple of months.  I value your input and IUN, your comment about the neutrality of the moment makes a lot of sense to me.  Being neutral in the moment is a difficult task but i am working hard to practice it.  I read early on about being in an intense wave and not being able to see outside of that.  Seeing only black and white as you stated.  I am getting better...but when the physical symptoms pound down, it is hard.  FH, I know you suffered for an extremely long time.  Did you have the physical discomfort, headaches, cognitive issues right up until the very end before you got over the hump at 9 months or how did your symptoms abate?  I know you cycled through many drugs before you had some relief.

 

6. Ativan - I've had to take a 1mg pill on several occasions.  I've been taking one maybe every three days on average in the last couple of weeks.  I am scared to death of becoming dependent so I a trying to avoid it as much as possible.  I will say that it pretty much calms most every symptom down in a big way.  It is such a relief.  I'm not sure of the properties of Ativan that would explain the major help it gives but I'm guessing you guys know.  It is a nice "safety valve" when in dire straits.  

 

Thanks again you guys...

 

Driven

[fishinghat]

1. I agree with the dr. It will pass.

 

2. That is part of the Cymbalta withdrawal cycle. It will slowly (I bet that is a surprise) go away.

 

3. Pretty common. You have already seen a little improvement and that will continue. The dropping of the Prozac may have added those additional floaters.

 

4. Again Common. The withdrawal is centered in the fear and paranoia section of the brain. So many many members have went through this and it shakes you confidence and perspective.

 

5. 6 Months is a long time to deal with this and my deepest sympathy to you. I still remember how that felt. My symptoms did not start fading until around month 7 or 8th but you have to remember I was also dealing with failure of testosterone production and that causes a lot of fatigue, depression and despair to go along with the Cymbalta withdrawal. Yours should not last that long.

 

6.Good stuff if you can stay on a low intermittent dose like that.

[invalidusername]

Hi Driven...

 

Withdrawal is something that no-one will understand unless they go through it themselves. It is all down to empathy, and in my experience I have found that it dissipates quite quickly with people. Again, they cannot understand that things can be THAT bad for THAT long. 

 

1. I had exactly that coming off Cymbalta and Celexa. I just let whatever happen to happen. No good trying to isolate specifics to see what is being caused by what. Just relax as best you can and wait for it to pass. But I agree that you might have a rough couple of weeks ahead - but you at least know that it will improve.

 

2. I think this has to be expected with the on/off relationship with the drugs. It is all a biological factor and it is hard when you are set to a default level of sadness - you try to tell yourself that it is all the withdrawal, but that in itself brings you down. No easy way through it. Keep the faith.

 

3. I really cannot comment as I do not know, but take solice in what brother Hat has said - a common phenomenon.

 

4. This sounds very remaniscent of this time last year for me. In the thick of it, it is so difficult to see a way out, but it is always a slow start to come out - so slow that we miss the windows sometimes. This is why I maintained a log throughout so I could pick myself up during the lows.

 

5. Seeing black and white is normal at these times because you mood is doing the same thing due to the withdrawal - so it follows suit. Don't be too hard on yourself, but this is where the logs can come in handy. Keeps you mindful that you have had moments that are a lot worse, so there is a gray area in the middle of it all somewhere.

 

6. Exactly what Hat said. But don't get yourself worked up over it. You need it, so you take it...

[Driven]

Guys,

 

Thank you again. I have definitely taken a slight step backwards in the last 4-5 days.  I'm sure it is probably the stopping of the Prozac as of this last Sunday but certainly could be the Cymbalta too.  I just feel out of it.   Light dizziness, entire brain feels slightly numbed, nausea, and way more eye floaters.  My vision also blurred so bad yesterday that I had to step away from work for about a 1/2 hour.  It got better but still scary as heck when it happened.  The symptoms I'm feeling have more of a flu-like feel to it.  I haven't really had the flu feeling throughout my Cymbalta w/d.  

Also, I'm just hoping also that the low dose of Zyprexa isn't the main cause of some of these issues.  My p-doc states that brain fog and weight gain are two of the main symptoms with Zyprexa (which I'm experiencing both).  I'm scared that the Zyprexa might be causing the flu-like feeling and headaches but praying it is just the Prozac w/d or combination of that and Cymbalta w/d.  

 

Within the last week, I have had a few windows where all symptoms have eased up...I'm holding onto those windows the best I can.

Thanks,

Driven

[fishinghat]

Time will tell if the Zyprexa is contributing or not. All things come to him(or her) who waits.

[Driven]

I agree with that FH.  My p-doc did state that the head fog with Zyprexa should ease also in 2-3 months as well.  Hoping that is the case too.  I don't know what to believe at this point however.  

Thanks for your continued insight.

[invalidusername]

Hat... this is exactly like I was this time last year - do you remember?

 

I was just coming off the Cymbalta, then went to Citalopram for a bit, then off it... then we added some pregabalin. I was in such a state!!

 

Driven, it is the same thing. If your brain could talk, it would be screaming at you right now!! LOL. I have been where you are and it sucks.

 

Look at it from a Buddhist perspective if you will. An apprentice goes with his master to a still lake... the master drops a stone into the lake and asks the apprentice to stop the ripples that ensued. The apprentice then reaches into the water to stop the ripples, but even time he did, he created more and more ripples. The master replied... in order to stop the ripples, you must let them dissipate on their own. Whenever you intervene, you only delay the process longer.

 

You see where I am going with this?!

[Driven]

IUN,

You made me smile which is great:)  Yes, this whole ordeal has been such a test of patience and I'm realizing that is a weakness for me.  It has knocked my life sideways and that is also probably a message from above that I needed to slow my role before Cymbalta anyhow.  

Your Buddhist analogy is great and certainly hits home.  I think back about all the changes since stopping the Cymbalta (in then off SAM-e, 5-HTP, supplements, Prozac, etc).  Yes, .  I just hope that staying on the low dose of Zyprexa isn't a mistake.  As FH says, time will tell....

 

Driven

[Driven]

Guys,

 

I'm pleased to report that the headaches have improved quite dramatically in the last 2-3 days.  It is a refreshing change.  it has been a let-up in both pain and some let-up in fog.  

 

That said, a couple of other things are bearing down at the moment. 

 

1.   I am getting these odd emotional waves that are a pretty intense feeling of doom and despair along with some depersonalization.  I had these doom/despair feelings early in the Cymbalta w/d and I'm guessing it is either that again or being completely off the Prozac causing some ripples.  I am trying to tell myself that it could be a bumpy road for a few weeks with stopping the Prozac.  It has been 9 days off that small dose for that short duration.  Hopefully that is all this is... I had some a couple very low moments over the weekend that felt very chemically induced.  Then at the blink of an eye, I get this feeling of anxiousness and the back of my head feels like it is buzzing and I'm nervous/shaky for no real reason.  It is brutal.  

 

2.  Eye floaters are a REAL issue.  I have this new large floater in my left eye that floats around right in the center of my field of view.  My eye doctor says I have had a PVD (posterior vitreal detachment) and the floaters should subside and move lower in my field of view over next weeks/months.  If they don't, then he can treat/minimize them with laser treatment.  I sure hope so.  It's as if I'm looking through cobwebs when I look at a bright surface such as my computer screen.  

 

All said, I think the trajectory is slowly in the right direction but I'm feeling some very strange emotional backlash from the Prozac.  Or maybe just another Cymbalta wave.  Regardless, I am consistently telling myself that it will pass.  It has to pass.

 

Thanks, 
Driven

[fishinghat]

This is a typical pattern for Cymbalta withdrawal. As the headaches, brain fog, brain zaps, begin to fade the emotional issues really start kicking in. This is the time to be the most patient.

[Driven]

Guys,

Well, I'm creeping up on almost 7 months completely off Cymbalta.  I hope you don't mind my continuing to journal my recovery on here...

 

I am pleased to report that at least the headaches have largely improved in the last 7-10 days.  A few "pings" here and they but they have vastly improved.  This is the best that I've felt in terms of the constant headache since the start of my withdrawal.  I am thankful for that.  My head still feels it has suffered brain damage but it appears many folks feel that way during w/d.  I just keep telling myself that all reports are that people often feel like this, but all of them do recover after enough time has passed.  

 

That said, there are still a lot of things going on...

1.  Anxiety/Fear - I keep thinking about FH stating this is all part of w/d and will eventually fade with time.  I'm sure it is since I still don't feel much like my old self.  I can get worked up pretty quickly with anxiety from the simplest of things.  Mostly tied to being scared of any physical symptom that bears down.  Even with the headaches improving, I have not really been able to slow my thoughts down enough to enjoy much of anything since I'm still feeling fairly out of it both mentally and physically.  I am so thankful for my wife and daughters but it is still an incredible challenge every day to keep with the pace of life right now.  

 

2.  Eye issues.  I'm still really battling vision issues and it appears the short stint on Prozac may have worsened it as things slid back again after I ceased Prozac.  I will say that some vision symptoms have definitely improved (depth perception, light vertigo feeling is better) but I am now having to deal with the crazy amount of eye floaters and my left eye hurts and is weeping a bit.  I have a couple of really large (new) floaters in each eye that are really aggravating.  I just keep reminding myself that my eye doc (a great family friend) says he can perform laser vitreolysis if they don't improve over the next several weeks.  It is weird to think this is tied to w/d but I have never had eye issues and have 20/20 vision w/ contacts.  

 

3.  Zyprexa - There is no question this is helping with sleep but it has a very serious "numbing" effect that rolls over into every day.  I just feel "flat" and lethargic.  That could also be part of Cymbalta w/d but I had more pep in my step prior to starting Zyprexa.  I've managed to make myself pretty nervous about this drug which I know is not great for my recovery anxiety.  I'm just so frustrated about being on what appears to be one of the most potent anti-psychotics on the market.  My doctors speak so confidently about it being a low dose at 5mg and that he treats many people with much higher doses and that "most" people don't have issues coming off it.  He keeps reassuring me that it was a good choice to help wit these w/d symptoms.  Knowing that I can't rush this taper, I am considering starting the process soon so I can at least see how I feel when I get to 2.5mg which is the lowest dose offered in pill form.  That should take 5-6 months to reach based on taper schedule.  Regardless, I will go slow and taper over a year or longer depending on how my body responds.  I have also put on almost 25 lbs in the 2 months taking it which is adding to some of the depressive thoughts.  I've always known my body well in terms of what I can and can't tolerate nutritionally and I will say that this medication really screws up the metabolism.  I've eaten relatively clean and run 2.5 miles/day 3-4x per week.  

 

Thanks again for all the help so far.  I am open to any suggestions if something pops out at you.  I can still use some words of encouragement as I'm feeling very flat, I can't see as well, my head still feels "off", and I'm growing out of my wardrobe.  

Thanks,

Driven

[frog]

Hey Driven,

If it's any consolation my doc put me on Seroquel to help with sleep. It is also an antipsychotic. I am also on a "low dose." I'm guessing these classes of drugs are favored off label for sleep because they have sedative properties. Seroquel at least has a pretty short half life so since I only take it once a day I think I'm keeping my blood levels low enough that getting off should be pretty easy. On the other hand it's super hit or miss for me. If I have too much adrenaline it'll either put me to sleep for a couple hours max OR I won't fall asleep at all and just toss and turn all night long. I'm now also taking gabapentin at bedtime to try to lower anxiety/adrenaline and help STAY ASLEEP. This is also hit or miss but last week I had roughly 2 or 3 nights in a row where I slept for 7-8 uninterrupted hours and that was a first for me in like 2 months. 

 

I guess what I'm saying is, if the Zyprexa works well for you with sleep, I would personally stick with it at this point. FH said that sleep is very elusive for most members who have gone through w/d so if you're getting good sleep you're one of the lucky ones! I promise you will be that much more miserable during your withdrawal if you're also not sleeping. 

[fishinghat]

I am afraid I agree with frog. Don't mess with your sleep and you don't need to add another withdrawal on top of thw Cymbalta one.

 

Patience is golden.

[Mxpro32]

Hey Driven,
If it's any consolation my doc put me on Seroquel to help with sleep. It is also an antipsychotic. I am also on a "low dose." I'm guessing these classes of drugs are favored off label for sleep because they have sedative properties. Seroquel at least has a pretty short half life so since I only take it once a day I think I'm keeping my blood levels low enough that getting off should be pretty easy. On the other hand it's super hit or miss for me. If I have too much adrenaline it'll either put me to sleep for a couple hours max OR I won't fall asleep at all and just toss and turn all night long. I'm now also taking gabapentin at bedtime to try to lower anxiety/adrenaline and help STAY ASLEEP. This is also hit or miss but last week I had roughly 2 or 3 nights in a row where I slept for 7-8 uninterrupted hours and that was a first for me in like 2 months.

I guess what I'm saying is, if the Zyprexa works well for you with sleep, I would personally stick with it at this point. FH said that sleep is very elusive for most members who have gone through w/d so if you're getting good sleep you're one of the lucky ones! I promise you will be that much more miserable during your withdrawal if you're also not sleeping.

I haven't had 1 night of uninterrupted sleep in almost 4 months. If you are getting sleep, keep doing whatever you are doing

[Driven]

All,

 

I really appreciate the insight.  I think you are right.  It's probably wise to keep forging ahead with the low dose of Zyprexa as I continue to get more time away from the Cymbalta rapid taper as my brain continues to heal.  I landed on the Zyprexa because I also went through about 3 months of terrible insomnia from the w/d.  I was in REALLY bad shape just two months ago and I agree that I should re-think anything that is going to fiddle with the sleeping.  I just really struggle with the feeling of being on the hampster wheel with these drugs but I must accept that the Zyprexa is helping me slowly heal.  The side effects of feeling emotionally "flat", low energy, and new weight gain is something I'm settling into...knowing that it won't be forever.

I had an appointment yesterday and the doc also agreed that I need a bit more stability before considering starting the slow taper off Zyprexa.  Although very slow, I am seeing some definite progress as I climb away from Cymbalta.  The physical head pain and fog has largely improved.  I've had many days strung together with little/no headache which is just an incredible feeling.  I am struggling with some low mood and odd feelings that pass over me at times throughout the day.  I just listen to what FH says about it all being part of the process and that it too will slowly fade with time.
  
I hope that you others in active withdrawal get some improvement soon.  Healing from this w/d has been unlike anything I've ever experienced in my life.

 

Thanks,
Driven

[DThiessen]

I have the same "head pains" you talk about to the point where some days my head just won't move and they are planning an MRI/CT of head and neck.  But yet I know it is withdrawal related because when I tried going back on it went away 100% after like 6 weeks. But being I am not going back on, it is what it is. I try to make it through every day. I shall never forget this season of my life. The headaches are't even headaches, its like severe head pain. It is awful.

 

I am going to try Clonidine as it is supposed to help with muscle spasticity and I feel like that has a lot to do with the head pain at this point as the serotonin AND dopamine states are hypersensitive (I was also on Zoloft before which has a high affinity for dopamine, but all SSRIs will to some degree) . It is almost like going off these drugs can create a temporary "Parkinson" like state with the muscles and the most sensitive, small and painful ones are of the head and neck as they are in motion basically 24/7. 

 

Also a fun fact I learned tonight - someone correct me if this info is not accurate - but after coming off an SSRI, it's not that you are totally depleted of your serotonin and dopamine, but rather it returns to your normal levels of both, and has to get used to not having an inflow of readily available serotonin and or/dopamine which apparently SSRIs are grotesquely overpowered for. 

[DThiessen]

Do the EPS and basically all and any dyskenesia's go away eventually 

[fishinghat]

Headaches

Bonine (the one that contains meclizine)

Naproxin, advil, tylenol, ibuprofen, aleve, aspirin, motrin, acetaminophen, excedrin and other over the counter analgesics do not fair well for body aches and headaches during Cymbalta withdrawal. Just as many say they don't work as say they help. No clear cut option here.

L-theanine (The pure L-theanine type called suntheanine) has been very successful for many members.

Low blood sugar can develop during withdrawal and cause headaches. A simple 1/4 teaspoon of sugar can be taken to see if that is the problem. It should be in effect in 15 minutes. If no effect by then then that is not the issue.

Clonidine
Clonidine is one of the primary treatments for anxiety as well.

Caution - It also lowers blood pressure.

Serotonin levels after stopping Cymbalta.

Complicated issue.
First, studies have shown tremendous variation from patient to patient in levels of serotonin and norepinephrine after coming of an snri.
Second, most snri and ssri work by binding with the transporter that carries the neurotransmitter across the synapse. Un luckily those transporters are not efficient in picking up the medication as the medication is not exactly the right shape 9stereochemistry) to fit the transporter. The transporter will adjust its shape as will the receptor to accommodate the new combination. This is why it takes antidepressants weeks to become effective. Once the medication is removed it can take the transporters and synapses up to 2 years to return to their original functions.

EPS/dyskinesia

Dyskinesias do typically fade with time.

EPS - Are you refering to excitatory post-synaptic potential (EPSP) signals OR Electrophysiology study OR Extrapyramidal symptoms (EPS), also known as extrapyramidal side effects (EPSE)? I assume you are talking about the last one and yes they do fade over time typically.

[DThiessen]

I think I will try L-Theanine - I will pick some up today. I see the doctor tomorrow about Clonidine as well.

 

Yes I was meaning movement disorders yes. I read somewhere that half the time they are permanent, but that can't make sense as I have noticed SLIGHT improvement over the last 6 months. It is definitely headed in the better direction than worse (the odd random day is bad) but I have to remember that none of this is linear!

 

Perhaps if the individual is maybe in their 70's etc I can see how it can last indefinitely but being I am 27 I am more hopeful bah I just fell down the rabbit hole of reading negative stuff again last night by Dr. Breggin who has a whole guide published on drug withdrawal of this type. 

[Driven]

DThiessen,

 

I can completely relate to your comments about the severe head pain.  I finally found relief at about 6.5 months off.  I am 7 months off now and the head pain has been very minimal the last couple weeks.  NOTHING near as intense as it was the several months before.  I don't know if it is the Zyprexa helping or more time away from Cymbalta.  My family as well as doctors also want to pursue a brain MRI which I expect is a waste of time since it has got to be w/d.  I'm deferring that as long as I can in hopes of continued improvement.  Hang in there on the head pains.  Everything that I researched as well as have experienced so far is that it will minimize with time.

Driven

[fishinghat]

DT - The studies indicate (but don't prove) that Dys caused by medications is usually ones that may become permanent however the Dys caused by withdrawal is seldom permanent.

[Driven]

Guys,

 

Sometimes I think my google research has gotten me down a road of more trouble than not.  It makes me scared as heck and anxious at times.  I reached out to Ann Blake-Tracy in my quest to better understand her thoughts on my w/d and next steps.  Some of you may have already heard of her...she is very active in trying to help w/ anti-depressant w/d and advocating for drug awareness support groups, etc.  I was thinking about getting a phone consultation with her as she's consulted with hundreds of people in similar situations.  I have not done that yet, but in my messaging with her, she stated that by being put on Zyprexa it has kept me in a state of w/d since there is no way for the Cymbalta to flush out of my system (while taking Zyprexa).  Her point is that starting any anti-depressant/anti-psychotic during w/d just drags out the healing process.  I can see the point about perhaps the same serotonin receptors that both Cymbalta and Zyprexa touch but I can't totally understand it beyond that.  That is frustrating news after just starting the low (5mg) dose of Zyprexa and consulting with several doctors about being on a "low dose" as a solid approach to help me ride through this w/d.

 

FH or anyone...any thoughts on this?  I'm a bit scared about feeling like crap for years since I'll have to slow taper off Zyprexa when that time comes too.  

Thanks,
Driven

[fishinghat]

She is right that any additional antidepressant just extends the withdrawal BUT it can take the edge off enough so you aren't suffering too much. And yes you have to come off that later but it does give you a chance to heal some in the meantime.

Schwenger E, Dumontet J, Ensom MH (July 2011). "Does olanzapine warrant clinical pharmacokinetic monitoring in schizophrenia?". Clinical Pharmacokinetics. 50 (7): 415–28. doi:10.2165/11587240-000000000-00000. PMID 21651311.
"Although Zyprexa (olanzapine) metabolism includes the minor metabolic pathway of CYP2D6" it does not compete with Cymbalta to a significant degree.

Zyprexa is easier to wean off of than Cymbalta. For right now all you have to do uis wait while your body heals. I know it takes time but it will get there.

[invalidusername]

Hi Driven,

 

The anxiety/fear thing is perfectly normal. As soon as I get something going on with my health, it sends my head off in a tailspin and I cannot stop thinking, so thoughts do not slow down during these times. It is like there is someone following you around all day holding up a sign telling you there is something wrong. It just cannot be ignored. It sucks. I have been waking up the last few days with a very strange head fog and ringing ears and a bit weak... don't stand a chance!

 

I will again advise against the laser vitreolysis. The technology is all too new - one slight slip onto the retina and its a blind spot in your vision for life. Just not worth the risk for someone playing space invaders with your floaters. I looked into it a number of times as I would love nothing more than to look towards the heavens and see sky without all this black smoke everywhere...

 

Think the rest of the guys have the Zyprexa stuff covered - so nothing to add there from me...

 

IUN

[DThiessen]

Thank you for the information about L-Theanine - works wonderfully! My question is, is this not like an antidepressant therefore messing with the withdrawal? As it appears that it also increases Serotonin and Dopamine... and o boy can I feel it about 2 hours after taking it. It is crazy

[fishinghat]

L-theanine

L-theanine is an amino acid precursor to glutamate (involved in the synthesis of GABA) and glutamine. It can cross the blood brain barrier. It is only produced by plants and fungi and a component in some teas. It inhibits glutamine transporters and glutamate transporters, and thus blocks the reuptake of glutamine and glutamate. Theanine increases serotonin, dopamine, GABA, and glycine levels in various areas of the brain.

 

Its primary action is to produce more GABA in the brain, GABA is the main control neurotransmitter in the body. The increase in serotonin and dopamine is moderate at best. There is no withdrawal from L-theanine that I know of.

[invalidusername]

Just wondering whether I should try some theanine to accelerate this horrible withdrawal from the Phenibut.. given that has messed with my GABA receptors. Sure it was only two doses, but you know how sensitive I am to all of this. 

 

Worst day by far today. I feel like such an idiot. I didn't even need the damn stuff - it was pure curiosity. 

 

I hope from my example, that no-one goes near the stuff.

[fishinghat]

Phenibut raises gaba levels...Theanine raises gaba…  Probably not a good idea. just an educated guess, maybe and maybe not.