260 replies to this topic

[invalidusername]

I was only thinking along the lines of "adding a few beads", but then again, if the increase in GABA is at the expense of the serotonin, then you are right, this would not be a good idea.

 

Probably best just to tough it out, and not throw anything further into the mix.

[Mxpro32]

So theanine is ok, phenibut is not?

[invalidusername]

Totally different compound. Steer well clear of Phenibut! Although in smaller doses it can be of benefit, it is unfortunately highly addictive and can, unlike theanine, have quite a withdrawal... even at relatively low doses.

[DThiessen]

So are we saying l theanine can mess with the withdrawal then??

[DThiessen]

Or that by increasing gaba it lowers serotonin? Sorry I'm just trying to understand the above

[fishinghat]

L-theanine helps many members because it helps raise serotonin some and significantly increases gaba. Gaba is the main neurotransmitter your body uses to block other transmitters (like adrenaline). Gaba supplements are little help in calming anxiety because it does not pass through the blood brain barrier into the brain. L-theanine can pass through the barrier, enter the brain and form glutamate which is then changed into gaba,

[Driven]

Guys,

 

It appears I'm in another pretty rough wave that has started a couple of days ago.  This is incredibly hard and this w/d is really testing my marriage, etc.  I am so nauseous, my head is spinning, slight vertigo, and my eyes hurt.  I can't understand why this is still happening.  This week marks 7 months off and I was praying that i was past the worst of it.  I'm feeling pretty hopeless right now.  Will I ever improve? Is the Zyprexa making it worse? Will my eyes ever improve and will I see relief from this monsoon of eye floaters?

 

I am really struggling to see any positive right now.  I feel as bad as ever (minus the horrendous head pain) and I'm afraid the drug that I landed on (Zyprexa) is possibly making things worse.  My head just still feels off and cognitive functioning is not great. Also, how in the world do I convince my immediate family that this is truly w/d?  I went from being on the the toughest guys around to what they see as a complete hypochondriac ever since this Cymbalta disaster.

 

 Driven

[fishinghat]

"I went from being on the the toughest guys around to what they see as a complete hypochondriac ever since this Cymbalta disaster."

Totally, I fully understand. Just hold on to the memory of the better days you had recently and be assured they will return.

[Driven]

FH,

I can get on board with that but these better days that I've experienced are still not anywhere near great days.  During good days, my head has still felt weird and I feel a bit off the mark still.  I'm just scared as heck.  Would you say that I may just still be in the mix of w/d at 7 months off?  I know the Prozac added a w/d speedbump as well.

Do you feel quite a bit better now compared to when you were climbing out of the Cymbalta w/d?  I know you said you sufffered terribly for 9 months.  I know you had to taper off many drugs that didn't work.  Have you experienced any brutal w/d effects that you feel are from the tapering off the other drugs?

 

Driven

[fishinghat]

I have recovered from all my withdrawals. (Yea!!!)  It was 9 months before I started feeling better but I had a lot going on with other health issues at the time.

"Would you say that I may just still be in the mix of w/d at 7 months off? "

It is possible. I have meet a couple of members that took a year to turn the corner. Unusual though.

I can't rule out on the Zyprexa effecting your withdrawal and there is so little information about what effects withdrawal. Unluckily this isn't the time to wean off of it right now.

[DThiessen]

Driven - I had the floaters for 5 months, like black snakes in the sky. It was wonderful - NOT. It is totally gone now. I also had paraethesias very terribly for 6 months which is way longer than a lot of people - so everyone's body hangs on to different withdrawal symptoms for different lengths of time. But yes it will go away. I even talked to my optometrist about it and she said she hears that ALL the time with people coming off AD's and she assured me it all goes away. No permanent damage what so ever. Sorry I forgot to share this earlier, sometimes my mind is too focused on other bodily things happening. Bah. These meds are FUGLY, 

[Mxpro32]

I’ve noticed the more I worry about it, the worse it gets by far. I can turn one of my decent days into a horrible one in a hurry by worrying about whether I’m ever going to get better.  I had a few days recently where I was sobbing on and off all day.  My wife had me leave the room cause my kids were worried.  I’ve been off 4 1/2 months.  I’ve tried my best to keep from being irritable at my wife, and I help out around the house as much as I can to reduce the burden of dealing with me.  Not sure how much your other meds are affecting you, but hang in there.  

[invalidusername]

Driven,

 

Apologies for the delayed input, but from my perspective, I stopped Cymbalta in November 2018 and I started feeling myself again by around the same time last year. I went back on Celexa as my system was used to that, but everything that was keeping me in this state was STRESS. It has been a combination of making the right choices, making the right plans and seeking all the help I possibly can. 

 

I sure don't have the same symptoms as you, but today I have had a really spinny head - I don't know why. I went out for an hour and felt I needed a rest. Still not normal, but this is one day. I have to accept that these will still happen. Weekends are generally when my body cries out for relief...

 

You really have my sympathy, but all brains are capable of change, and it changes according to our environment. That environment might take a while to get right. What with my wife, mine is still far from ideal, which is probably why I still get spinning heads and so forth.

 

If you haven't done so already, I think you need to get uber organised and start documenting all these symtoms, day to day and hour to hour, and then present these and don't take no for an answer. And these answers ARE out there. This is what I did. My answer was where I least expected to find it and that was sacking the p-doc, walking away from the NHS, seeing a homeopath and drinking various tinctures and herbs.

 

It won't last forever... I promise you my friend.

[DThiessen]

Question about the L-TheANINE - It REALLY works for the head pain, however, after like 8 hours it wears off and then I feel more withdrawal symptoms like the tingling, eye twitches, etc... is this an indication that I should stay clear of it? 

[fishinghat]

Not really. This is called a rebound effect and is common with many meds as well.

[DThiessen]

IS it bad to rebound? Or is it okay to keep taking - is it making brain changes like the actual SSRIs do?

[fishinghat]

It is OK to rebound. A rebound symptom is a symptom that pops back up right after stopping a medicine and then returns to its normal level after a short time. An example of a rebound symptom is Cymbalta and pain. Cymbalta is often prescribed for fibromyalgia pain. Let say the pain is a 6 on a scale of 1 to 10. The patient starts on Cymbalta and lets say that the pain drops to 4 on a scale of 1 to 10 but the patient has side effects and needs to stop the Cymbalta. When they stop the Cymbalta the pain usually comes back but at a level of say 7 on a scale of 1 to 10. Higher than before it all started, After 2 or 3 weeks off the Cymbalta the pain drops back to the original score of 6 where the patient started. .  

[DThiessen]

Ok. So if I rebound from the L-Theanine every night... is that a bad thing... 

[fishinghat]

No, it will just give you part of the day where you risk a headache. At least it provides some relief. Many members with headaches took 100 mg 4 times a day to keep the headaches away until things settle down.

[invalidusername]

This is EXACTLY what I experienced with the Phenibut last week. It is like a mini-withdrawal but yes is referred to as rebound. This is why it is important to get dosages correct. Typically if you are having a rebound effect, the dose is too high, or the med is simply not going to work for you. 

 

With the Phenibut, the dose was at question. The wife took 1000mg and she was transformed, but in a Paris Hilton sort of way! I have since started her on 200mg twice a day, 12 hours apart. She WILL get rebound if she stops, for sure, but this is a means to an end. She WILL get withdrawal when she decides to stop, but this - done correctly - will keep the withdrawal... and by extension the rebound, to a minimum. 

 

So there are ways around it, but you need to make sure that the drug works for you.

[fishinghat]

"Typically if you are having a rebound effect, the dose is too high, or the med is simply not going to work for you."

Not necessarily. Most medicines that effect nerves directly have a pronounced rebound effect no matter what the dosage. These include Cymbalta (for pain), gabapentin, Lyrica, beta-blockers, Alpha antagonists, opioids, endorphins, and other pain meds even nsaids to an extent. Things like diabetes meds, liver meds, antibiotics, diuretics, and much more do not.

[invalidusername]

Yes Hat - I am probably stuck in my animo acid/supplement head at the moment, while I am working with the wife's dosing.

 

So I would argue that the rule might be the case for supplements, I think medication will be different in this respect. 

 

The issue is whether or not you can avoid the rebound by taking a regular dose, and whether the drug in question is suitable for that purpose. Some drugs/supplements are on an "as-needed", and it is these that shouldn't be taken regularly to avoid rebound, as Hat said, this is far from ideal and will ultimately hold you back.

[DThiessen]

I think then I still stick to it for an as needed basis as I am clearly so sensitive to it at all. Too bad it really works for the head pain like unreal, but then it makes my skin prickle and tingle/burn so that is what I have had under control the last few weeks so it sucks that that brings it out

[DThiessen]

K... if no one knows the answers to these then no worries, I am just going to ask anyways though! So about L-Theanine:

 

When I take it (125mg Suntheanine a day) within 3 hours my head feels amazing but I begin to prickle a lot which happens right now when I take anything that increases Serotonin.. so here are my questions:

 

1. Being that it works so quickly, is this different than Cymbalta/any SSRI in the fact that it doesn't have to actually go and change the shape of all the synapses to work? So could the prickling just be an over excitement of the Serotonin nerves as mine are still so sensitive? Or is it actually changing the synapses shape yet again and is going to ruin my healing....

 

2. Is taking L-Theanine going to slow down my healing or "stall" my healing in any way? Or will it destabilize systems?

 

3. If I continue to take it, even through the prickling will I eventually stabilize on it or is that a recipe for disaster? (Would my body heal from the Zoloft/Cymbalta use in the mean time still or is all healing now off the table?)

[fishinghat]

You are correct that it does raise serotonin but more importantly it raises gaba, the primary calming neurotransmitter, even more.
 
1. It does not change the shape of the synapses. Yes, the increase in serotonin could be causing these symptoms. A slightly lower dose may help.

2. It should not slow down your healing. It should just by you time to heal until your body recovers.

3. If you stay on the current dose it is likely that the tingling will continue.

[DThiessen]

FH your the best - thanks. Ya I kind of figured this, so I am going to dump out half the capsule and see if that helps. 

[DThiessen]

So last night still from all this Serotonin my head pain is virtually gone but the skin is prickling, burning, crawling and tingling now. Have I screwed up my stabilization or is this just how excess serotonin is going to present until my nerve synapses is re shaped? Should I stop the L Theanine altogether bah so frustrated 

[DThiessen]

Honestly though I think I can handle this more than the head pain cuz that was so severe. So if I continue taking it although uncomfortable sensations are happening, am I hurting the nerves/nerve synapses or will it STILL heal in the mean time.... will be constantly over exciting them every day make it not good for healing??..

[DThiessen]

Sorry if I sound like a broken record, but I really want/need to know as this was my largest withdrawal symptom, most uncomfortable and I don't want to start down a path that causes me more harm. Just sucks because like I said, takes the head pain like 95% away. It is unreal. This is kind if bringing up some PTSD for me because of all the months of bad paresthesias.. 

[fishinghat]

I would suggest a slightly lower dose. Instead of 125 mg you might try 100 mg. You should bot be further harming yourself or impeding your recovery.