ironically, as my sleep seems to be improving, I'm groggier in the morning and feel more tired through the day. Its like my body didn't know how to be sleepy before. I've had crazy vertigo for a few days now, but thats not related as I've had it once before. its weird though.
2 Months Off After Somewhat Slow Taper. Really Struggling
Posted 28 October 2021 - 04:52 PM
well, I was doing pretty well for a while. still had some anxiety and such, but it felt appropriate to the stresses I was dealing with. my sleep was getting more normal. now the last three days I started waking up with my nightmarish anxiety after 4-5 hours of sleep again. I've been anxious, agitated and depressed all day. I just feeling like escaping somewhere. I'm miserable doing anything and miserable doing nothing. it feels like its for no reason too. my stressful business situation is actually improving. I've got this angsty lack of motivation too.
Posted 14 August 2023 - 10:26 PM
" in my head, Its inevitable that I am completely screwed...."
I'm relating to this 100% and i dont know how to feel ok and safe regarding the future. All I see is doom or potential doom. There is no balance. I feel like I go from one major thing to be anxious about to the other, no rest inbetween. Then huge anxiety triggers around money are right around the corner that I can't do anything about, I've been in thought cycle hell, and barely keeping it together
Add in the anemic episofdes that have suddenly appeared and the terrible dehydration and all the ailments thats doing to me and I'm a complete freaking mess. I have little to no help here in the real world. today i was barely hanging on and i don't see that light at the end of the tunnel. Help me! Please!!
I want to make big changes in my life that would lead to more stability (hopefully) BUT I CAN'T because of all this damn withdrawl shit! I feel completely trapped! Completely trapped in hell, with no way out! and I'm all alone. trapped in hell and alone.
Posted 15 August 2023 - 07:35 AM
Oh, I remember the severe feelings of doom. I went through that for months on end. I finally couldn't take it anymore and went on Zoloft. Now I am slowly weaning off of it.
You truly feel like this will never end BUT it does. When you feel bad you feel like it will last forever and when you feel good you feel like the bad times will never return. A terrible rollercoaster. And by the way, you are not alone. We are here for you and many others are/have gone through the same thing.
Posted 15 August 2023 - 08:35 AM
"When you feel bad you feel like it will last forever and when you feel good you feel like the bad times will never return. A terrible rollercoaster."
yes, that sums it up, but lately with external major stressors, (which now will be ongoing for life), I'm feeling like shit. I don't see the good times happening because if i can't stop the source of the stress, then i'm out of luck, and forever stressing over it.
it makes a huge difference if i can stop the source of stress. then i have hope. in these 2 cases i am facing theres no way to stop the sources.
Posted 15 August 2023 - 02:46 PM
Redbird, I don't know the sources of your stress but a good therapist can not only help you deal with those sources but teach you coping skills to help you manage the stress that remains. Focus on a therapist that teaches cognitive behavioral therapy or mindfulness. They are very helpful.
Posted 14 September 2023 - 01:23 AM
Respectively, No thank you.
Therapists who actually understand the mind of a person who's on the high functioning side of the autisim spectrum are rare, [if they even exist at all.]
My reply to your post is this: basically 'been there, done that' and I have NOT found it helpful at all, and actually have gotten worse at times as a result of interaction with a therapist due to lost hope and the fall after thinking I had finally found one who could actually help, only to be let down yet again.
I've tried 20+ therapists over the years. Each time it's harder to give into the idea of even meeting with one. When I do give in, I go in with an open mind. I try their processes. None of it works for me because my brain is wired differently enough so the normal stuff doesn't work on me. I see right through it all. I let them know this. Also I tell them that I figure out why they're asking what they're asking, why they're suggesting that I do certin things in certin ways, and I painstakingly tell them why each thing they are suggesting and asking of me doesn't work for me. This educates them on how a brain on this level of high functioning autisim works, but gives me NOTHING in return.
Why pay them $$ to just teach them things and I get no help at all?? I am not alone in my frusterations either. I have connected with many other people on the spectrum who feel exactly the same way I do. So, what I have experienced is not only a very real thing for me, but for countless other people on the spectrum as well. Therapists in the making who are in school, are not taught enough about autisim in order to help people who have autisim. There's outdated research, etc. that is covered, but it's based on a small population and only based on the male version of autisim. I could go on a whole huge tangent about this, but I won't because it makes me too angry, but if you do the research, like I and many others have, the information is out there.
In addition, I am not keen on doing the kind of therapy that is not in person either, so no phone sessions for me, no online sessions for me. Over many years, I've scoured the area I live in with great effort, for a therapist who actually understands my type of brain (the high functioning austitic brain), and I'm convinced that they don't exist. The last one I met with who was supposed to be a trauma specialist told me to eat a certin type of lettuce and I'd magically feel better. Are you kidding me!? I left that day and never came back. It was almost insulting that she suggest something like that!
I've had other therapists that use methods that make more sense for who they understand to be the general public, but the general public is not the category I fall into. By the way, there's a lot of people on the spectrum out there, but are ones who are undiagnosed because even the system of dignosis is broken for this. --don't get me started on that, or we will get another long tangent.
The heck with therapists!!!! I end up teaching them a ton of stuff, and what they give to me is completely unhelpful, and it ends up with me feeling like I've wasted my hard earned $$ & time on schooling them, when I'm the one who is supposed to be getting help here. So, no thank you. I will not be dealing with any therapists, ever again! If anything, they should pay me for what I teach them.
1) I have now entered the phase of cymbalta withdrawl where I'm so stressed, I'm losing my hair, to a worrying enough degree. This happened last time I went off cymnbalta. I have yet to find anyone else mentioning this aspect of the withdrawl process, by the way. Do people who are not on the spectrum, not have this level of stress throughout the withdrawl process? Who else has lost their hair in this process? I'd like to know. No supplements help nearly enough with this.
2) In addition, I'm still dealing with dehydration. Nothing I do helps enough, and I've done EXTENSIVE research on the matter. I'm now suffering with medical issues caused by the dehydration, with no hope in sight to fixing these problems. I've done the research, tried the things that are supposed to help.
Nothing is helping, and with no solid end in sight for when the actual withdrawl process will be over, I'm left to feel completely hopeless, with no where to turn, because again, if I didn't make it clear enough above, therapy, even the kind you suggested, doesn't help me. Been there, Done that. At this point I just have to be my own therapist because I have found no help otherwise.
Posted 19 September 2023 - 09:42 AM
Items Proven to Help Many with Cymbalta Withdrawal.
Diphenhydramine, (over the counter) also known as Benadryl, is an antihistamine and as such is not only used for allergies/colds but also as a sleep aide. It does have a mild anxiolytic effect. May lower blood pressure and cause irregular heartbeats. Your body does build up tolerance to it after a few weeks so use it off and on. This medicine has many drug interactions.
Begins working in 15 to 30 minutes
Peak levels - 2 to 2.5 hrs
Half Life – 4 to 6 hrs
Use by members for anxiety relief and to help sleep is too numerous to mention.
Diphenhydramine should NOT be taken with hydroxyzine. Drugs.com
serendipity - I found Benadryl to produce hangover effects, and cause palpitations when taken long term. Even if you wake up in the middle of the night, and can't get back to sleep, even a teeny amount (say, 15mg) can induce sleep again.
Schmb - Benadryl worked on a limited basis for me, because sometimes it makes me jittery, and that only made the zaps much worse, so just use some caution in case you are sensitive to it.
FH - One caution on benadryl. It is famous for bad reactions with other medicine so check your compatability closely. The maximum dosage of benadryl is 25 to 50 mg every 4 to 6 hours and do not surpass 300 mg in a day.
•Acetaminophen, 500 mg
•Diphenhydramine Hydrochloride, 25 mg
•Pseudoephedrine Hydrochloride, 30 mg
It contains diphenhydramine which is the active ingredient in regular Benadryl and also pseudoephedrine which is common in most cold medicines. The Diphenhydramine helps with sleep and anxiety and the pseudoephedrine helps block the action of adrenaline which produces a calming effect.
FH - a research article where it was shown that taking no more than 0.7 mg of liquid melatonin under the tongue (sublingual) helps with anxiety. Place it under the tongue until dissolved and gone. In case you are not familiar with melatonin it is the chemical your body produces in the evening to make you sleepy and ready for bed. I suggest you start with around 0.1 mg and work up from there. Too much will relax you but it might also make you sleepy.
L-theanine is an amino acid precursor to glutamate (involved in the synthesis of GABA) and glutamine. It can cross the blood brain barrier. It is only produced by plants and fungi and a component in some teas. It inhibits glutamine transporters and glutamate transporters, and thus blocks the reuptake of glutamine and glutamate. Theanine increases serotonin, dopamine, GABA, and glycine levels in various areas of the brain. Caution – Most plants that contain L-theanine also contain caffeine and it can be a significant contaminant in L-theanine supplements. It is synthesized from glutamate using the enzyme glutamate decarboxylase and pyridoxal phosphate (which is the active form of vitamin B6) as a cofactor. This process converts glutamate, the principal excitatory neurotransmitter, into the principal inhibitory neurotransmitter (GABA).
(puritan's pride) 200 mg capsules 2- 3/ day. I have been taking this prior to cymbalta detox. It helped me reduce my dosage of clonazepam. Within 20-30 mins I feel more calm. I do believe it is helping keep the anxiety in check.
Tinabee - For now I have started taking fish oil and a supplement called Theanine Serene that is supposed to help with anxiety. I know it sounds silly since I've only taken the anxiety supplement for a couple days but I really feel like it has helped.
200mg L-Theanine in the morning with a full glass of water on an empty stomach, you can take again in late afternoon 100 to 200 mg if needed (make sure it is suntheanine - it helps with headaches and pain as any painkiller I had just did not cut it)
Member's comments were generally favorable.
Page 1 and 2, detailed information on L theanine and its usage.
The research shows that all green tea leaves contain both L-theanine and D- theanine BUT only the special processing used by the manufacturer produces pure L-Theanine and is the choice of many of the research biologists.
Five of the six products contained significant amounts of D-theanine. Only one product, SunTheanine, appeared to contain only the L-theanine enantiomer. D-theanine is not used by the human body. Suntheanine is the pure ingredient and that is what you want.
Theanine increases serotonin, dopamine, GABA, and glycine levels in various areas of the brain.
A National Standard monograph that reviews current research on theanine reports that it is likely safe in doses of 200–250 mg up to a maximum daily dose of 1,200 mg. Theanine is used to help with anxiety, blood pressure control, mood, and cognition.
(Withania somnifera )
All five studies concluded that WS intervention resulted in greater score improvements (significantly in most cases) than placebo in outcomes on anxiety or stress scales.
Our results provide evidence indicating that key constituents in WS may have an important role in the development of pharmacological treatments for neurological disorders associated with GABAergic signaling dysfunction such as general anxiety disorders, sleep disturbances, muscle spasms, and seizures.
300 mg twice a day.
Final BAI scores (anxiety test) decreased by 56.5% in the Ashwagandha group. Significant differences between groups were also observed in mental health, concentration, fatigue, social functioning, vitality, and overall quality of life with the Ashwagandha group exhibiting greater clinical benefit. No serious adverse reactions were observed in either group.
250 mg 2x/day
500 mg/day for bipolar, effective.
Each capsule contained 300 mg of high-concentration full-spectrum extract from the root of the Ashwagandha plant. Each person took 2 capsules a day. The treatment group that was given the high-concentration full-spectrum Ashwagandha root extract exhibited a significant reduction in scores on all the stress-assessment scales on Day 60, relative to the placebo group. The serum cortisol levels were substantially reduced in the Ashwagandha group, relative to the placebo group. No serious adverse events were reported.
W. somnifera extract is effective in treating obsessive compulsive disorder
The results suggest the protective effect of WS in the management of ethanol (alcohol)withdrawal reactions.
Preliminary results suggest that Withania root extract can be used in the management sleep loss and associated oxidative stress.
Effective for anxiety
WSG also exhibited an antidepressant effect, comparable with that induced by imipramine in the 'behavioural despair' and 'learned helplessness' tests. The investigations support the use of WS as a mood stabilizer in clinical conditions of anxiety and depression
It has a Cognition Promoting Effect and was useful in children with memory deficit and in old age people loss of memory. It was also found useful in neurodegenerative diseases such as Parkinson's, Huntington's and Alzeimer's diseases. It has GABA mimetic effect and was shown to promote formation of dendrites. It has anxiolytic effect and improves energy levels and mitochondrial health. It is an anti-inflammatory and anti-arthritic agent and was found useful in clinical cases of Rheumatoid and Osteoarthritis.
1,250 mg/day × 10 days
All volunteers tolerated WS without any adverse event.
Safety and side effects
This product is comparative to lorazepam in its ability to control anxiety. That is impressive.
250 mg twice a day.
At 6 weeks, significantly more patients met a priori response criteria in the drug group (88.2%) as compared with the placebo group (50%). The drug was well-tolerated and did not occasion more adverse effects than did placebo. It is concluded that this ethanolic extract of Withania somnifera has useful anxiolytic potential and merits further investigation.
This study provides scientific validation to the anxiolytic, anti-inflammatory and anti-apoptotic properties of ASH-WEX, which may serve as an effective dietary supplement for management of SD induced stress and associated functional impairments.
One member reported taking it during withdrawal and said it was very beneficial.
Brz - ashwagandha update:
had to stop - bummer.
definitely allergic. just like sk8ermama. i couldn't figure out why my allergies hadn't gone away even after the pollen count dropped way down. stopped the ashwagandha and my congestion and headaches subsided. not to mention i had a very tight chest feeling. very uncomfortable. my side effects are not uncommon from what i've learned. i may try again way down the road but now that i'm battling reflux, i don't want to complicate things. i've heard rhodiola is a similar adaptogen, but don't want to introduce anything new into my system right now.
Many other members have had good success with it but your body does build up tolerance to it so it must be used for short periods of time.
Posted 19 September 2023 - 11:30 AM
Deep breathing, sighs, yawns....
These activities cause an increase in the release of dopamine, endorphins and serotonin. This fact has been used by psychologists for decades to help control anxiety, depression and sleep. By causing yourself to yawn several time over a 10 or 15 minute period it will release enough of these neurotransmitters to help relax and induce sleep. Sighs work much in the same fashion but to a lesser degree, Breathing exercises are the most effective. A good psychologist should be used to teach the most effective techniques.
Member comments and tips -
deep breathes, breath(ing) - 22 comments all positive
Raven - Breathe it deep calming breaths and hold them for about 5 seconds before slowly letting them out.
Gail - you need to breathe, yes breathe in and out slowly.
FH - Deep breathing. Close your eyes—and try taking deep, slow breaths— making each breath even deeper than the last. If you have a psychologist who could teach you relaxation techniques, controlled breathing and heart rate, etc. These techniques really do work.
Raven - Just do you best to stay calm and use breathing techniques. My husband and FH have given me great tips on breathing when anxiety strikes. FH because he is a veteran and my husband because he has asthma.
Keys to breathing:
** Take slow deep breaths (breath in deeply and slowly)
** Hold for at least 15 secs if you can
** Exhale slowly
***repeat as needed*
FN - What helped me the most with this was yoga ...the breathing exercises ... once learned, they can be done anywhere, anytime .... the release of the built up anxiety in my body was tremendous ...
Janson - . i've learned a few breathing exercises via yoga and that helps immensely to calm down those nerves that are about to snap. even without knowledge of specific breathing exercises, just take deep full breaths with hands on your stomach and see your tummy rise on the breath in and then fully breath out. so simple, so effective.
Note - There must have been well over 100 members that had posts similar to the one below. Shortness of breath, heart pounding, skip beats, tightness in the chest or chest pain. hese are classic anxiety symptoms and are the result of elevated adrenalin e levels. Adrenaline is a vasoconstrictor and bronchiole constrictor. These shallow rapid breaths allow CO2 to build in the lungs and worsens the symotoms. Alpha-agonists (eg. clonidine) and beta blockers (atenolol) work well t o block the effets of this excess adrenaline. Breathing exercises also help considerably in breaking this Cycle. As you can see below ZA got it really right.
Snap87 - Just scared with the shortness of breath and heart palpitations more than anything.
ZA - the 'out of breath' symptom is actually shallow breathing and I had that for about 2days it is very exhausting as it causes your ozygen saturation to drop. what worked for me 'was awareness -slow deep breathing -then a little aerobics. it helped to up my b/p and neuteralize by blood gases.
Posted 19 September 2023 - 11:33 AM
Conditioned Response -
One of the methods that can have a dramatic effect on anxiety is the development of a phrase in association with breathing exercises and relaxation techniques. This usually takes time to develop but is very effective. The process is begun by selecting a phrase...say the word "easy" for example. When you notice that you begin to get too anxious then lay down, close your eyes and begin your deep breathing exercises while also doing relaxation like 'progressive relaxation' all the time repeating the word 'easy' in your mind. With practice this becomes very effective and the need to lay down to achieve success is not necessary. You simply stop in place, close your eyes and say the word 'easy" to yourself while relaxing and breathing deeply. You then proceed on with your activities. This can be further used by your spouse to help you control your anxiety. If your spouse notices you becoming anxious they can simply develop a certain place she/he touches you gently as a signal that you need to stop, breath and relax. With practice this becomes automatic and can easily be done in public without drawing attention to your state of mind. The is a conditioned response so it MUST be practiced until it is a reflex action to be most helpful.
Three members report using this technique with excellent results.
Posted 19 September 2023 - 11:36 AM
Clonidine (Catapres, Kapvay, Nexiclon, Clophelin) is a classic blood pressure medicine BUT it is very effective on anxiety. It is an alpha adrenergic antagonist which means it stimulates the alpha adrenaline synapses located in the frontal lobes of the brain. When these synapses are stimulated by the clonidine the brain thinks that it is due to adrenaline and it tells the adrenal gland to produce less adrenaline. It is a little slow to kick in, about an hour and a half. It has a 12 hour half life. Most drs prescribe 0.1 mg twice a day. One to be taken about an hour before bedtime and the other in the morning. Because it decreases adrenaline it has a strong calming effect which helps a person get to sleep and stay a sleep. It is not unusual for people to have a little drowsiness from clonidine until they get use to it (1 or 2 weeks). It does NOT work faster sublingual (under the tongue) like benzos. These have no withdrawal but your blood pressure may spike for a couple weeks if you cold turkey. Due to the lowering of blood pressure and sleepiness it is common for the patient to start with ½ tablet at bedtime. Once the patient adjusts to the medicine they begin a ½ tablet in the morning. As sleepiness and blood pressure stabilize they are slowly worked up to the 2 tablets (0.1 mg each) a day.
Begins working 60 to 90 minutes
Peak levels – 3 to 5 hrs
Half Life – 12 - 16 hrs
There are too many research articles on clonidine's anxiolytic properties to list here.
FH - I started clonidine but it was a relief to me NOT to be able to feel my heart pound through my chest. As long as your bp is OK you shouldn't have a problem.
That is why the slow start up. This gives your heart a chance to adapt to the new med. I did the same slow start up and my bp stayed within normal range. Just keep monitoring your bp and you should be OK.
FN - clonidine worked wonders for me
Posted 19 September 2023 - 11:42 AM
Hydroxyzine, (Vistaril, Atarax) - is an H(1)R antagonist, is very effective against anxiety in most people but some get no help from it at all. It is not addictive nor does it have withdrawal but it also can lower blood pressure some but that usually goes away with time. This medicine should be started slowly to give your body a chance to adjust to the blood pressure effect. Normal dose is 25 mg four times a day but can go as high as 400mg/day.
Begins working in 30 minutes or less
Peak levels - 2 hrs
Half Life – 15 to 20 hrs
Do not take with cimetidine as it increases hydroxyzine levels in the blood.
For oral dosage forms (capsules or suspension):
⦁ To help control anxiety and tension:
⦁ Adults—50 to 100 milligrams (mg) 4 times a day.
Atenolol is a beta 1 adrenergic receptor antagonist, also known as a beta blocker. It does not pass through the blood brain barrier which limits its side effects compared to other beta blockers. It has been linked to a higher risk of type 2 diabetes. It may cause drowsiness and lower blood pressure. Typical dosage around 25 mg four times/day. Dosage should be slowly increased.
Begins working in 30 minutes to an hour
Peak levels – 2 – 4 hrs
Half Life – 6 - 8 hrs
SF - So now I am on one. It is called Atilonol (Atenolol?) and calms down your heart rate too.
Posted 19 September 2023 - 11:45 AM
Buspirone (Buspar) is a seratonin 5-HT1A receptor partial agonist and a dopamine antagonist at the receptors. It functions as a weak anti-anxiety medication similar to diazepam in strength (a weak benzo). No withdrawal or tolerance issues. Dosage should be kept low if taking a ssri and/or snri or St. John's Wort as it may cause seratonin syndrome. DO NOT take with grapefruit or grapefruit juice. May lower blood pressure. Typical dosage is 10 to 20 mg three times per day.
Begins working 3 to 7 days after begin dosing
Peak levels - 1 hrs
Half Life – 2 - 4 hrs
Buspar (15mg) and Melatonin (3 mg) yielded the best anti-depressant effect of any combination concentration tested. (See Melatonin below)
Buspar and melatonin in combination is anxiolytic.
Dos and Don'ts
take PPIs, acid reducers or antacids with an antidepressant as it will effect absorption of the antidepressant.
take St. John's Wort, 5HTP, tryptophan, SAMe, Dextromethorphan (a cough syrup/cold medicine) with an antidepressant - Serotonin Syndrome.
Don't take Stimulants (Make anxiety worse)
Over-the-counter cold preparations contain phenylpropylamine and pseudoephedrine*
* - Only some people have this reaction.
Things containing caffeine..
List of energy drinks with caffiene. (over 100)
take Depressants (Make depression worse)
Oxalic acid is a depressant found in members of the spinach family and cabbage, broccoli, brussels sprouts, chives and lamb's quarters are high in oxalates, as are sorrel and parsley. Rhubarb leaves contain about 0.5% oxalic acid. Oxalic acid can cause depression, lack of minerals, kidney stones, and more. Cooking does not affect oxalic acid. People with kidney disease, a history of kidney stones or suffer from depression should avoid these foods.
High Fat Dairy
Pesticide residue on foods
exposure to organic solvents (paint, varnish, stains, cleaning solvents, paint thinner, etc).
Do mot take any calcium or magnesium products within 2 hours of a medication as it can effect absorption of the medication.
take 500 mg of vitamin C per day or 300 mg of NAC - (N-acetyl cysteine) an antioxidant
learn Cognitive Behavioral Therapy or Mindfulness
sleep as much as possible
Keeping a Journal - Don't trust your memory during withdrawal.
Posted 19 September 2023 - 11:49 AM
Dose - Omega 3 is recommended at 2000 mg/day EPA and DHA for anxiety, give or take a couple hundred depending on what research you read. It has been shown that only the EPA and DHA components effect anxiety. Any other omega 3 fatty acids don't do anything for anxiety. Life Extensions, Mega EPA/DHA, is distilled (molecularly purified) so you don't get any impurities with your product plus it contains no mercury. Some even provide a certificate of analysis if requested. They also have ones that are enteric coated now that will not irritate the digestive track and has no fish burbs to them.
This thread contains a detailed discussion on use of Omega 3.
Also this thread....
Fishinghat - Omega 3 fish oils can be very high in mercury depending on the type of fish used. Some have tested at over 300 ppm mercury. There are brands out there that are mercury free or low mercury guaranteed. Something to think about. If you have thyroid issues they usually contain high iodine concentrations also. One member had an episode of high iodine toxicity I couldn't find a iodine free product. If your thyroid is fine then this should not be an issue.
FH - Cod liver oil you buy in the store may be high in mercury and pesticides. The liver is the pollutant filter for the body. Cod livers are from the top of the food chain and pollutant levels are usually significant. Be sure to get one that is purified and verified mercury free. But I don't believe there is one verified pesticide free. Great care must be used in selecting one. It also contains fairly significant levels of vitamin A and D and toxic doses are known to occur. Routine blood analysis for Vit A and D should be done every 6 months if using Cod Liver Oil or any Fish oil.
More than 3 Grams of omega 3 per day can worsen cardiac arrhythmias.
Posted 19 September 2023 - 11:51 AM
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