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An Update From Polly


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#1 Polly38

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Posted 18 February 2020 - 07:57 AM

Hi Everyone

A quick update from me. I have been taking Ranitidine for the stomach pains/acid reflux and have been feeling more and more anxious every day and feel like I can't breathe (like someone is sat on my chest). I almost feel paralysed with fear sat in my chair at work! I have been doing some Googling (I know I probably shouldn't) and there are so many people with these symptoms taking Ranitidine (Zantac)! It has to be the tablets making things worse. I have been taking them regularly for the last 10 days or so. I am so sensitive to medication 😓 so am not going to take them any more. I'd rather put up with the stomach issues than feel like this! Does anyone have any thoughts on this theory?

The doctor phoned me with the results of my ultrasound scan on my stomach. My pancreas and gallbladder are fine but they saw a small haemangioma on my liver (cluster of blood vessels) which are normally benign and shouldn't cause any symptoms, so they have referred me for a CT scan. So the saga continues and I'm not really feeling any better. See the gastroenterologist on Thursday so will ask lots of questions. Will update again when I've seen him.

Hope everyone is OK.

Polly

#2 fishinghat

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Posted 18 February 2020 - 09:30 AM

FDA says that around 7% of people have trouble breathing after taking Ranitidine. Of course that itself would set off your fear with the condition you are in. I would agree, stop the Ranitidine.

#3 Polly38

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Posted 18 February 2020 - 09:33 AM

Thanks FH. Do you have any views on the haemangioma on my liver?

#4 fishinghat

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Posted 18 February 2020 - 09:44 AM

Not uncommon. Your dr is right. They are usually benign and seldom present an issue.


#5 Polly38

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Posted 18 February 2020 - 09:53 AM

Thanks FH. The shortness of breath is awful today and it feels like someone is sat on my chest. If it is the Ranitidine making things worse, how long do you think it will take to ease?

#6 fishinghat

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Posted 18 February 2020 - 10:13 AM

It should take around 48 hours. Did your breathing difficulties get worse each time you made a drop in Cymbalta?


#7 Polly38

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Posted 18 February 2020 - 10:28 AM

Thanks FH. I can't really remember if it got worse every time I dropped, but I don't think it did. I think it got worse after I'd stopped.

#8 fishinghat

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Posted 18 February 2020 - 10:50 AM

Thanks Polly.


#9 invalidusername

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Posted 18 February 2020 - 05:41 PM

Further facts about the liver haemangioma state that most people are born with them and go unnoticed for life, but of the 5% of people that find they have them are women and most are diagnosed between the ages of 30-50. It is only when they grow and patients start vomiting as a result that complications can occur so I don't think there is much to concern yourself with there.

 

As you say - still more to find out from the specialist next week - please keep us posted....

 

Thinking of you.


#10 Polly38

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Posted 18 February 2020 - 06:01 PM

Thanks IUN. I will keep you posted.

#11 gail

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Posted 19 February 2020 - 03:22 PM

Thanks for the update Polly. The scan will tell a lot of nothing. Love

#12 Polly38

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Posted 23 February 2020 - 02:33 PM

Hi all.

An update from me after seeing the gastroenterologist the other day. As reported before, the ultrasound scan didn't really show anything and they said that my endoscopy last September showed hyperplasia of the oesophagus (sore patches) but there was no evidence of an ulcer of hiatus hernia. Because I have had an endoscopy recently, they won't give me another one so soon.

So, the consultant is not sure whether it's acid reflux, or her other theory, is that it's sensitive nerve endings in my stomach. She wants me to try Esomeprazole for 14 days to see if it resolves my symptoms. Well I have got to day 4 of Esomeprazole and it is definitely not for me! I have felt so anxious today (much more than normal) and the shortness of breath is much worse! I've also had bad chest pain and backache so I won't be taking anymore! A lot of reviews I've read have reported similar side effects.

The next step, if the pain remains bad, it to take Amitriptyline (at the lowest dose of 10mg), which as you know, is one of the old tricyclic antidepressants. I am not keen on this idea at all, but have actually read good reviews of it for stomach nerve pain.

I would welcome thoughts and opinions on all of this please.

Thanks.

#13 Polly38

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Posted 23 February 2020 - 03:21 PM

Sorry, I meant to also say that the consultant has referred me for a PH manometry test - to check the level of acid in my stomach. I'm actually wondering if I have too little stomach acid, as a hair analysis test I had done identified low zinc, which can be a cause of low stomach acid.

I have also been referred for a CT scan of my stomach and liver.

#14 fishinghat

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Posted 23 February 2020 - 05:11 PM

Theoretically no drug interaction between esomeprazole and Cymbalta.
https://www.ncbi.nlm...pubmed/11475467
Esomeprazole broken down by enzymes CYP2C19 and CYP3A4.

https://www.ncbi.nlm...pubmed/11510629
Esomeprazole does not seem to have any potential to interact with drugs that are metabolised by cytochrome P450 (CYP) 1 A2, 2A6, 2C9, 2D6 or 2E1

https://www.ncbi.nlm.../pubmed/8930576
https://www.ncbi.nlm...les/PMC4139355/
Cymbalta is also broken down by enzyme CYP1A2 and CYP2D6

---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
https://www.ehealthm...sodium/anxiety/
2.1% report anxiety as a side effect of Esomeprazole

https://www.ehealthm...ness-of-breath/
5.6% reports shortness of breath as a side effect of Esomeprazole

https://www.ehealthm...ium/chest-pain/
2.1% report chest pain as a side effect of Esomeprazole
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

I have never heard of using Amitriptyline for pain but as you said there is plenty of evidence.

---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------


#15 fishinghat

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Posted 23 February 2020 - 05:15 PM

"I have also been referred for a CT scan of my stomach and liver."

Serious issue. I had an abdominal cat scan in the winter of 2014. I was not informed to force fluids for 48 hours to get rid of the iodine used. I found out after the fact that if one takes 500 mg of Vitamin C the day before the test, within an hour of the test and the day after the test it reduces the radiation damage by nearly 50%. After the test my white blood well count went from 5.2 to 3.2 within a few days. I have been in reverse isolation since then and have not left the house since. My white blood cell count has recovered to 4.2 but must reach 4.5 before they will release me from isolation.
The radiological societies say prescribing Vitamin C for a cat scan is patient treatment and should be done by the treating physician. The American Medical Society says that is part of test preparation and should be the responsibility of the radiologist. This information has been out there since the 1980s and has yet to be resolved. The FDA says cat scan radiation is responsible for less than 2% of the cancer cases and the benefits outweighs the risks. They said it will respond when the rate gets to 4%. The FDA also states that low blood cell counts due to radiation from medical tests account for a majority of deaths in the elderly from flu and pneumonia.
Also, because I did not force fluids for 48 hours I suffered from "iodine excess" and was put on a special diet for 6 months. My 24 hour urine sample was suppose to be under 500 but was 1238!! High iodine can cause hypothyroidism BUT it is reversible once the iodine levels go down to normal. My dr wanted me to go on thyroid medicine (which is permanent but luckily I found out different and did not go that route.
I am going to attach detailed information on this and I suggest you look at it carefully.
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#16 fishinghat

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Posted 23 February 2020 - 05:19 PM

Iodine Excess


Contrast CT scan - Dec 29th/2014 - Used 100 ml of Isovue 370 which is composed of 370 mg/ml. A 100 ml dose calculates to 37 grams iodine. Which is the same as the daily recommended intake for 250,000 days (685 years).

Two Barium Enemas - Spring 2015 - NO iodine used.

1) Iodine induced hypothyroidism The medical literature well documents that high intake of iodine causes elevated TSH and lowered T3 and T4 (Wolff-Chaikoff effect, references available).

Research shows a 10 to 28% occurrence of hypothyroidism from a single iodine contrast test. (see below)
https://www.ncbi.nlm...les/PMC3976240/Leung
http://www.cleveland...ism/Default.htmSkugor
http://www.ncbi.nlm....pubmed/18618140Lombard
http://www.ncbi.nlm....d?term=15307941Gartner
18% had elevated TSH after 1 cat scan.
http://www.ncbi.nlm....ed?term=3447940Allemand
http://www.ncbi.nlm....pubmed/19575766Ahmet
http://archinte.jama...607&direction=P
Source Reference: Pearce EN "Iodine-induced thyroid dysfunction: Evaluating the risks of iodinated contrast medium "Arch Intern Med 2012; 172(2): 159-161.
Source Reference: Rhee CM, et al "Association between iodinated contrast media exposure and incident hyperthyroidism and hypothyroidism" Arch Intern Med 2012; 172(2): 153-159.

2) Iodine excess may happen if you have been exposed to high doses of radiographic contact dyes. The US Food and Nutrition offices list this iodine excess as anything over 1,100 µg/L/24 hr urine test while the World Health Organization says anything over 1,000 µg/L/24 urine test. Excessive iodine toxicity is considered by WHO as anything over 1,700 mcg/test which has some serious health risks including autoimmune hypothyroidism.

In my case:
Contrast CT scan - Dec 29th/2014 - Used 100 ml of Isovue 370 which is composed of 370 mg/ml. A 100 ml dose calculates to 37 grams iodine. Which is the same as the daily recommended intake (150 micrograms/day) for 250,000 days (685 years).
My 24 hour urine iodine was 1238 on May 29th/2015 and had dropped to 187 by Nov. 19th of 2015.

3) Elimination half-life

The biological removal half-life of radioactive iodine in the body is a 50% elimination every 64 to 80 days.
http://www.sciencedi...123741356000182

Average 57 days with a range of 11 to 4000 days.
http://www.lanl.gov/...RCon-46p027.htm

120 to 138 days http://www.orcbs.msu..._iodine_125.pdf

60 days to return to normal (21 patients)
https://www.ncbi.nlm...pubmed/23599025


FYI; In each of these studies it was noted that in a small percentage of participants 'escape' from the Wolff-Chaikoff effect did not occur and presented as a chronic condition, especially noted in the elderly.
https://www.ncbi.nlm...pubmed/11396709(Full text at....)

http://www.iccidd.or...ism_Thyroid.pdf
Repetitive contrast media exposure in a short period of time eliminates the 'escape' from the Wolff-Chaikoff effect. Resultant hypothyroidism may last for years. Numerous references included.

https://www.ncbi.nlm.../pubmed/1987441
Iodine excess (>1,000 micrograms/day, urine test) eliminates the 'escape' from the Wolff-Chaikoff effect. Resultant hypothyroidism may last for years.

https://www.ncbi.nlm...pubmed/20172475
https://www.ncbi.nlm...pubmed/12448334
https://www.ncbi.nlm...a00086-0216.pdf

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#17 fishinghat

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Posted 23 February 2020 - 05:21 PM

Radiation

Radioactive material is used in the following medical tests:
X-rays
Cat Scans
Angiograms
Fluoroscope


Risk
Significant risk of developing of cancer and low blood cell counts.

How to minimize risks
Take Vitamin C or N-Acetylcysteine
Vitamin C should be taken in 500 mg doses. It reduces DNA damage by around 25%.
One dose the day before
One dose one hour before the test
One dose the day after the test.
Take N-Acetylcysteine
N-Acetylcysteine should be taken at the same dose and schedule as Vitamin C. Reduces DNA damage by 40 to 50%


Ask for sheilding to protect areas surrounding the test location.


#18 fishinghat

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Posted 23 February 2020 - 05:23 PM

Research

https://www.ncbi.nlm...les/PMC4440758/Brand
Test done on humans. For zinc, trolox and lipoic acid regardless of concentration or pre-incubation time, no significant decrease of γ-H2AX-foci was found. However, ß-carotene (15%), selenium (14%), vitamin E (12%), vitamin C (25%), NAC (43%) Q 10 (18%) led to a significant reduction of γ-H2AX-foci at a pre-incubation time of 1 .hour. The combination of different antioxidants did not have an additive effect.

 

Examples
During the Fukishima radiation leak, clean-up and recovery all exposed residents and workers were given Vitamin C to minimize the effects of the massive amount of radiation. As of 3 years after the leak no residents or workers have died or developed radiation poisoning.

Radiation Exposure


Dec 2012 Cat Scan - 27.92 mSv (Average Dosage for C at scan with contrast)
Feb. 2015 Barium Enema - 3.24 mSv (Mininum Dosage)
Mar. 2015 Barium Enema - 20.68 mSv (Over Maximum dosage)*
Total 51.1 mSv
* Maximum Allowed for that equipment is 20 mSv

A class H2 Radiation Exposure
See https://www.remm.nlm...bloodcounts.htmfor a description.

A 1:200 to 1:400 chance of cancer in next 2 to 7 years.


Also given a total of 250 grams of radioactive iodide (I-123). It has a half-life of 13.22 hours and emits beta particles and gamma photons. Total dose of iodine radiation not calculated.

"Usage of CT has increased dramatically over the last two decades in many countries. An estimated 72 million scans were performed in the United States in 2007. One study estimated that as many as 0.4% of current cancers in the United States are due to CTs performed in the past and that this may increase to as high as 1.5 to 2% with 2007 rates of CT usage. A more recent study by the National Cancer Institute in 2009, based on scans made in 2007, estimated that 29,000 excess cancer cases and 14,500 excess deaths would be caused over the lifetime of the patients. Some experts project that in the future, between three and five percent of all cancers would result from medical imaging."
Wiki



Radiation Mitigation

Tablets of prescription-strength N-acetylcysteine are inexpensive -- about 25 cents for a 500 milligram tablet -- and stocked by most pharmacies. It has few side effects. Over-the-counter supplement forms of the drug should not be used for pre-scan kidney protection.

The following references document the effectiveness of NAC for radiation mitigation.

http://www.ncbi.nlm....pubmed/19427509Reliene

http://science.natur...DNA_damage.html
Mansour

http://science.natur...dermatitis.htmlDemirel

http://science.natur...on_induced.htmlKilciksiz

http://science.natur...totoxicity.htmlDemirel

http://science.natur...tosis_in_a.htmlLow

http://science.natur..._porphyrin.htmlHe

http://www.ncbi.nlm....pubmed/25249432Ozgur

http://www.ncbi.nlm....pubmed/25776470Li

http://www.ncbi.nlm....pubmed/23104176Miller

http://www.ncbi.nlm....pubmed/22781576Xie

http://www.ncbi.nlm....pubmed/22289559Demirel

http://www.ncbi.nlm....pubmed/20932892Xue

http://www.ncbi.nlm....pubmed/20336544Wang

http://www.ncbi.nlm....pubmed/19696471Xie

http://www.ncbi.nlm....pubmed/19920101Goodson
Humans 1200 mg

http://www.ncbi.nlm....pubmed/20807176Ozgur

http://www.ncbi.nlm..../pubmed/8881338Hemelaar

http://www.ncbi.nlm..../pubmed/8642044Sminea

http://www.ncbi.nlm..../pubmed/3775078Tarbell

http://www.ncbi.nlm..../pubmed/8449972Selig
Human

http://www.ncbi.nlm....pubmed/10483360Bush

http://www.ncbi.nlm..../pubmed/9679454Steenvoorden

http://www.ncbi.nlm..../pubmed/9648531Steenvoorden

http://www.ncbi.nlm..../pubmed/9043100Garmyn
Human

http://www.ncbi.nlm....pubmed/15246351Salter

http://www.ncbi.nlm....pubmed/10483364Busch

http://www.ncbi.nlm..../pubmed/6296910Verhey
No effect on skin protection topically.

http://www.ncbi.nlm..../pubmed/6403989Kim

http://www.ncbi.nlm..../pubmed/7901297Solen

http://www.ncbi.nlm..../pubmed/9201273Abt
Human, ineffective on DNA damage.

http://www.ncbi.nlm..../pubmed/8310128Spotheim

http://www.ncbi.nlm..../pubmed/3671774Blank

http://www.ncbi.nlm....les/PMC2409148/Cotter

http://www.ncbi.nlm....les/PMC2982793/Jia


Vitamin C

https://www.ncbi.nlm...les/PMC4440758/Brand
Test done on humans. For zinc, trolox and lipoic acid regardless of concentration or pre-incubation time, no significant decrease of γ-H2AX-foci was found. However, ß-carotene (15%), selenium (14%), vitamin E (12%), vitamin C (25%), NAC (43%) and Q 10 (18%) led to a significant reduction of γ-H2AX-foci at a pre-incubation time of 1 .hour. The combination of different antioxidants did not have an additive effect.

 

To assess if the deleterious effects of radiation could be prevented by antioxidants, female mice were fed a diet containing 0.7% N-acetylcysteine (NAC) starting 3 days prior to the first CT exposure and continuing for a total of 5 weeks. NAC prevented CT induced increases in tumor multiplicity (10.5 ± 1.2 versus 20.7 ± 1.5 tumors per mouse; P < 0.0001) back to levels seen in NNK/unirradiated mice (10.5 ± 1.2). Our data suggest that exposure of sensitive populations to CT radiation increases the risk of tumorigenesis, and that antioxidants may prevent the long-term carcinogenic effects of low-dose radiation exposure. This would allow annual screening with CT while preventing the potential long-term toxicity of radiation exposure.

l

Vitamin C Effective against DNA damage due to radiation.

http://www.orthomole...ns/v08n06.shtml
Fukushima nuclear plant

http://www.ncbi.nlm....pubmed/19007656Kanter

http://science.natur...nction_and.htmlOn

http://science.natur..._inducible.htmlNam
(30 or 200 mg/kg/day, p.o., 2 days)

http://science.natur..._damage_in.htmlCai

http://science.natur...eatment_on.htmlRoy

http://science.natur...Status_and.htmlDevrim

http://science.natur...ariffa_and.html

http://www.naturalne...ing_cancer.html
Fukushima nuclear plant
http://jnm.snmjourna...t/34/4/637.longVenkat
http://www.ncbi.nlm....pubmed/23416157
http://www.ncbi.nlm....pubmed/24084715
http://www.ncbi.nlm....pubmed/25868130
http://www.ncbi.nlm....pubmed/25958121
http://www.ncbi.nlm....pubmed/25651298
http://www.ncbi.nlm....pubmed/23567970
http://www.ncbi.nlm....pubmed/25003799
http://onlinelibrary...0122.x/abstract
http://www.ncbi.nlm....pubmed/18361750

http://www.ncbi.nlm....pubmed/25537216
Genome destabilization enhancement of irradiated in vitro human somatic cells under ascorbic acid effect is due to its co-mutagenic properties. The formation of co-mutagenic effects of ascorbic acid depend on its concentration, irradiation dose and the efficiency of repair processes. Co-mutagenes may pose high carcinogenic hazard at low (above background) radiation levels.

 


#19 Polly38

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Posted 23 February 2020 - 05:30 PM

Wow, thanks for all the info FH. I will have a good read and follow the instructions if I have a CT scan. I have had an X ray recently and wish I'd known this. So have you not left the house since? Did I read that right?

I'm not taking anymore of the Esomeprazole as I am suspecting that it's lie stomach acid I have and not high! I may try digestive enzymes and/or apple cider vinegar after I've done more research.

Thanks again.

Polly

#20 fishinghat

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Posted 23 February 2020 - 05:42 PM

I agree with you on the Esomeprazole

I would not suggest the digestive enzymes unless a lab test showed you need them. They can make things a lot worse. Apple cider vinegar has really helped a lot of members with withdrawal symptoms and fibromyalgia but most found it too acid for their stomach to handle.

You read that right. I have not left the house except for drs visits since the winter of 2014. At the rate my wbc is recovering it may be 2 more years can not express my feeling on this without using language that would be offensive. I also can not tell you how many drs say 'Oh, yea, that is common. People just go on with their lives and hope they do not get sick'

I figure I will be free from isolation about the time the coronavirus hits the USA hard. lol

#21 Polly38

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Posted 24 February 2020 - 06:17 AM

I'm so sorry to hear this FH.I really hope it gets sorted soon.

Thanks for your comments. I haven't taken the Esomeprazole today, but I did take digestive bitters and I think I may have made it a whole lot worse! My stomach is cramping badly and I generally feel unwell. I don't think I will try apple cider vinegar as it could have the same effect. I'm not sure if this is from stopping Esomeprazole (as I only took 4) or the digestive bitters. Do you think I've made it worse and how long will it take to settle?

Thanks.

#22 gail

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Posted 24 February 2020 - 07:08 AM

Fishinghat,

You say that you haven't been out of the house since 2014. Is this because of agarophobia? Or something else. Love you

#23 fishinghat

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Posted 24 February 2020 - 09:47 AM

Polly, I would bet it was primarily from the digestive bitters but the experience with the Esomeprazole probably didn't help. I was not impressed with the 2 research articles into the CYP system that Esomeprazole uses. It was based on observation and not direct analytical analysis.

#24 fishinghat

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Posted 24 February 2020 - 09:49 AM

Hi Gail, it is due to a very low white blood cell count from the radiation of a cat scan.

#25 Polly38

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Posted 24 February 2020 - 10:05 AM

I'm waiting in A & E (ER) as the pain got so bad. I expect they will send me home with more tablets🙄.

Thanks

#26 invalidusername

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Posted 24 February 2020 - 11:38 AM

Good grief Polly...

 

Great start to the week. I agree with all that has been said between Hat and yourself thus far. I do not think the Esomeprazole is the best idea, and quite possible that the few doses could have an adverse effect. Recent events in my own circumstances (building work noise) which have resulted in significant physical symptoms have only led me to feel yet further sympathy to your own situation. Having these physical ailments which show no sign of abatement or origin can be one of the most stressful things. 

 

I know that you would only end up at A & E if things have got THAT bad, so I know the place you must be in right now. You really do have my love and support here. I have only endured 2 weeks of consistent symptoms and for what that has done to me, it tells me your strength is really shining through here. 

 

Please give an update of what is suggested as a result of consultation at the hospital.

 

IUN


#27 Polly38

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Posted 24 February 2020 - 01:29 PM

Thanks IUN. I really appreciate all the support you have given me already.

Well, A & E was a complete waste of time, as I thought it would be! They basically told me to keep taking the tablets and Co-codamol for the pain, if I need it. I spoke to my doctor after and he said to try the Amitriptyline tonight as well as it is really good for nerve pain.

I personally think that all the different tablets they tried me on last year have damaged the lining of my stomach so I am going to have to take these to repair it, and the PPI. I will try the Amitriptyline tonight and have booked tomorrow off work in case I feel groggy. I'm really at my wits end and want the pain to go away.😫.

How are you feeling now? Did you manage to get some rest yesterday?

Thanks again.

#28 Polly38

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Posted 24 February 2020 - 02:22 PM

Thanks IUN. I really appreciate all the support you have given me already.

Well, A & E was a complete waste of time, as I thought it would be! They basically told me to keep taking the tablets and Co-codamol for the pain, if I need it. I spoke to my doctor after and he said to try the Amitriptyline tonight as well as it is really good for nerve pain.

I personally think that all the different tablets they tried me on last year have damaged the lining of my stomach so I am going to have to take these to repair it, and the PPI. I will try the Amitriptyline tonight and have booked tomorrow off work in case I feel groggy. I'm really at my wits end and want the pain to go away.😫.

How are you feeling now? Did you manage to get some rest yesterday?

Thanks again.

#29 invalidusername

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Posted 24 February 2020 - 04:02 PM

You are right to say that an abundance of meds can aggravate your stomach lining, which is precisely why Cymbalta has the enteric coating as without it, this sort of thing can happen. Not all pills are treated in the same way. Paracetamol for example. Enough of that, and it will ruin your stomach... and you liver in time. 

 

So, it is wits end time. I'm here with you Pol. Brave girl. Good idea to take the day off tomorrow, but bear in mind that it has a half-life of around a day, so it will build up in your system over the course of the next few days, so any initial symptoms could well get exaggerated up to and including the 5th-7th day even at a low dose. Just a heads up. A good first day might well be a red herring. Again - keep us posted. Hopefully at that small amount, there won't be much to worry about.

 

I did get a bit of rest yesterday, but I never do well having a whole day off. My thoughts start taking over and I get cabin fever. I feel better to have been out to work and done a massive Tesco shop. Feel more in touch with the world. Crazy that it only takes the one day to do this to me!

 

IUN 


#30 Polly38

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Posted 05 March 2020 - 04:17 AM

Hi

Sorry I haven't been around for a while but have been having bad side effects from the new medication the doctor gave me and have just about got through each day😥. I'm sure the Esomeprazole (PPI) is making me feel more anxious, so I'm not going to take it anymore. I've been taking it 2 weeks so will it be OK to just stop it?

I've been taking Amitriptyline for 10 days and the shortness of breath and anxiety have been much worse, so it must be anxiety. I just about managed to get through work yesterday and am working from home today, which is good, although feeling absolutely rubbish.

Should I just take half of the Amitriptyline tonight to see if things ease? I don't want to just stop it as it may make things worse.

Thanks.

Polly



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