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Cymbalta Is Probably Satan (A.k.a. Withdrawal Help Questions)


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#1 Michayla

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Posted 18 February 2020 - 09:24 AM

I’ve been anxiously waiting for my opportunity to post on this forum - so much so, that I’m writing this before I’ve gotten a confirmation email lol (this morning I figured out it was in my spam mail).

 
I’m appalled, just in general, with this drug. The profit-mindedness of Eli Lily is just disgusting, as is the lack of knowledge among physicians about the horrible withdrawals this drug brings.
 
I was put on Cymbalta in Spring 2018 after being hospitalized for a suicide attempt. In Fall 2018, I learned about a little known mental illness called Emotional Deprivation Disorder, and that changed my life (learn more here: https://baarsinstitu...ation-disorder/). Reading the book on this disorder (Healing the Unaffirmed) by Dr. Baars and Dr. Terruwe was like reading a book about myself, and with help from my spiritual director, all the thoughts of suicide I was STILL experiencing for months after being put on Cymbalta just melted away, as did most of my social anxiety. I tried getting off Cymbalta in the Fall of 2018, to no avail. The psychiatrist I told that I would like to get off the medication told me to just stop taking it when I was on a 60mg dose. I had a gut instinct that it would be better to taper down, so I used some 30 mg pills I had to try and do that. Of course once I got off the few days of the 30mg, the withdrawals hit me. I couldn’t handle it at the time, not just because my psychiatrist wasn’t even trying to help me, but because I was a university student and doing school was going to be impossible. So I landed on, and have been taking, 30mgs of Cymbalta from around November 2018, until this past Thursday.
 
Friday, 14th: in the morning everything seemed like it was in slow motion. After lunch I started having extreme nausea. 
 
Saturday, 15th: kind of a blur - extreme nausea (somehow I managed to not throw up this past weekend with peppermint and lavender essential oils, children's pepto, and ginger tea...). I think the brain zaps started in the evening
 
Sunday, 16th: extreme nausea still, brain zaps getting worse - I can’t look left or right without getting them.
 
Monday, 17th: this morning the nausea started to subside, but the brain zaps are pretty bad. I went to see the chiropractor and he does reflexology stuff. As he was adjusting my back he said my liver was working really hard. I found it in me to do some dishes and walk my dog. I can fight through the brain zaps/fatigue for about 20 mins at a time til I need to rest
 
Today so far the brain zaps are present, but aren't debilitating. Typically I feel best right when I wake up in the morning and the symptoms start coming once I'm up and moving.
 
The main two symptoms that have been bothering me, obviously, are the nausea and brain zaps. The other symptoms I’ve noticed are diarrhea, irritability, and the most concerning symptom is slight confusion (not being able to think of words or remember certain things right away, like what I have to do this week). I also woke up with a slight fever yesterday morning, I think just from all the stress my body has been under (I had a slight fever after they put me on this medicine too). The fever is still slightly present this morning (18th).
 
I got off this medicine after telling my doctor on Thursday that I wanted to. He didn’t give me any guidelines for tapering except for replacing with fluoxetine and tapering that, which I declined. He also said a 20mg dose isn’t available in our area (in Texas), which honestly just sounds like a load of crap to me. 
 
Right now I’m taking a vitamin called Optivite PMT which helps with my PMS symptoms of depression and irritability. I’m also taking Symplex F to help with thyroid function, 2000IUs of vitamin D3, and a small amount of Omega 3s (which I plan to increase to the levels I’ve seen people mention here). My main question is how to mitigate brain zaps (I’ve had a hard time reading through the forum today because of the brain zaps so I haven’t gathered much info). I've also realized that the diarrhea is an issue just because my bum is getting irritated - any suggestions for stopping the diarrhea? Also the confusion has kinda scared me - I feel like I have a 50+ year old brain when this happens. 
 
The fact that I’ve gotten through the severe nausea (at least I hope I have) makes me think that I’m getting through the withdrawals - idk, tell me if experience says otherwise? I’ve read here that it’s pretty rare for someone to have an easier time getting off 30mg cold turkey - maybe it’s my spry young brain lol. You have no idea (well, you all probably have a good idea) of how excited I was to discover this forum today after googling everything Cymbalta withdrawal like 100 times in the past week! It feels good to not be alone in this. Thank you in advance for your help!

#2 fishinghat

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Posted 18 February 2020 - 09:39 AM

Welcome Machyala

 

Thank you so much for the detailed post. It helps a lot. I just wanted to let you know we are here for you. I will be digesting your info and posting back shortly. As far as the brain zaps the 2000 mg or more of high EPA and DHA should help relieve that. Be back in a little bit..


#3 fishinghat

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Posted 18 February 2020 - 09:41 AM

Oh yea, Imodium AD worked great for me when I had this issue.

#4 Michayla

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Posted 18 February 2020 - 09:51 AM

Perfect, I'll probably try this!

 

Oh yea, Imodium AD worked great for me when I had this issue.


#5 fishinghat

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Posted 18 February 2020 - 10:10 AM

How much of the Optivite PMT and Symplex F are you taking?

#6 Michayla

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Posted 18 February 2020 - 10:12 AM

I'm taking the full dose of Optivite per day which is 6 tablets, and I take 3 Symplex F tablets a day

 

How much of the Optivite PMT and Symplex F are you taking?


#7 fishinghat

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Posted 18 February 2020 - 10:15 AM

Thank you. this will take a little time so please be patient.


#8 Michayla

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Posted 18 February 2020 - 10:25 AM

For sure! From what I've read on the forum thus far, you're very knowledgeable about all of this stuff, so I'm very thankful for you sort of "taking up my case" as it were lol  :D

Thank you. this will take a little time so please be patient.


#9 fishinghat

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Posted 18 February 2020 - 05:39 PM

Michayla, this is the info on what I found that pertains to this first supplement. I will work on the
Symplex F tomorrow. Just to let you know, there are some serious concerns I have with this supplement. See the bold/underlined areas.

Optivite PMT
Active Ingredients:
Per 6 Tablets: Vitamin A 12,500 IU;

Retinyl Palmitate 5,000 IU;
Doses in excess of 10000 IU per day has been found to promote cancer growth as well as genetic damage to unborn fetuses.
 

http://www.nydailyne...rticle-1.179345
 

Wang, SQ; Dusza, SW; Lim, HW (2010). "Safety of retinyl palmitate in sunscreens: a critical analysis". Journal of the American Academy of Dermatology. 63 (5): 903–6. doi:10.1016/j.jaad.2010.07.015. PMID 20692724.
 

Overconsumption of preformed vitamin A can be highly toxic and is especially contraindicated prior to and during pregnancy as it can result in severe birth defects. The tolerable upper intake level for vitamin A in adults is set at 3,000 μg RAE/day.
https://lpi.oregonst...s/vitamin-A#RDA

(Note - Your product significantly exceeds the rda.)

B-Carotene 7,500 IU;
The proportion of carotenoids absorbed decreases as dietary intake increases. Within the intestinal wall (mucosa), β-carotene is partially converted into vitamin A (retinol) by an enzyme, dioxygenase. This mechanism is regulated by the individual's vitamin A status. If the body has enough vitamin A, the conversion of β-carotene decreases. Therefore, β-carotene is considered a safe source of vitamin A and high intakes will not lead to hypervitaminosis A.
Note - Should not be an issue.

Vitamin E 100 IU;
Note - Should not be an issue.

Folic Acid 200 mcg;
Note - Should not be an issue.

Vitamin B1 (Thiamine Mono) 25 mg;
Note RDA is 1.1 mg/day. At this dose it may cause Vitamin B1 toxicity. At these doses Vitamin B1 has been shown to reduce other B vitamins and homocysteine.

Vitamin B2 (Riboflavin) 25 mg;
Note - Should not be an issue.

Niacinamide 25 mg;
RDA is 14 to 16 mg/day. Intake should not exceed 35 mg/day. Extended release tablets increase the risk of liver toxicity. The FDA does not recommend the taking of niacin supplements.

Vitamin B6 (Pyridoxine HCL) 300 mg;
Note - This and selenium are the two types of poisoning seen in the ER. We have had 3 members who developed Vitamin B6 toxicity. RDA is 1.5 mg/d for women over 50.

https://www.ncbi.nlm...ooks/NBK114313/
Half-Life is 15 to 24 days.
This 300 mg dose is equal to 200 times the daily recommended dose. This is an unsafe dosage!!

https://www.ncbi.nlm.../pubmed/6308447
Although consumption of large doses of pyridoxine has gained wide public acceptance, this report indicates that it can cause sensory neuropathy or neuronopathy syndromes and that safe guidelines should be established for the use of this widely abused vitamin.

Vitamin B12a 62.5 mcg;
Note - Should not be an issue.

Pantothenic Acid (D-Cal. Pan.) 25 mg;
Note - Should not be an issue.


Choline Bitartrate 312.5 mg;
Choline toxicity is fairly common with supplements. This level should be relatively safe.

Vitamin C (Ascorbic Acid) 1,500 mg;
At levels over 1000 mg/day it can cause heartburn, cardiac arrythmias, anxiety.

Magnesium (Amino Acid Chelate) 250 mg;
This is the most highly absorbable form of magnesium.

Magnesium should not be taken as a supplement unless a blood test has shown a deficiency. Magnesium competes with calcium in the body so the more magnessium you take in the less calcium you retain . Magnesium is a common sourde of anxiety. Magnesium is a stimulant. It also can make diarrhea worse. Doctors recommend having your serum magnesium levels checked at least once per year if taking supplements. Doses over 300 mg/day is not recommended unless prescribed by a doctor. Magnesium should not be taken within 2 hours of any prescription as it can interfer with the absorption of medication.

https://www.ncbi.nlm...pubmed/30381673
...although the serum duloxetine level was significantly decreased. However, the antidepressant-like effects of a duloxetine reagent were significantly attenuated by the co-administration of magnesium oxide. These results suggest that duloxetine and magnesium oxide directly interact and that such interactions affect the absorption and antidepressant-like effects of duloxetine.

https://www.ehealthm...esium/cymbalta/
Magnesium and Cymbalta drug interactions - a real-world study
< 1 month:
Somnolence (a state of near-sleep, a strong desire for sleep)
Condition ?
Drug ineffective
Neuralgia (pain in one or more nerves)
Dizziness
Diarrhea
Hypoaesthesia (reduced sense of touch or sensation)
Nerve compression
Peripheral swelling

Note - Magnesium has been a consistant problem with many od our members by greatly exacerbating their withdrawal symptoms. Several found it to cause severe anxiety, diarrhea, and muscle related ailments. Some members have had their magnesium levels checked to find they were elevated and had symptoms of hypermagnesemia. I would strongly advise against taking extra magnesium without a blood test first to see if it is necessary.

Iodine (Hydrolyzed Protein Complex) 75 mcg;
Note Should not be an issue.

Iron (Amino Acid Chelate) 15 mg;
Iron supplements are not recommended by the FDA unless a blood test is done first and a supplement is recommended by a doctor. The reason is that iron can build up to levels in the body that can cause liver damage without any other symptoms.
 

https://www.pnas.org...6/2047.abstract
Iron can cause an elevation in serotonin levels that can effect withdrawal.
 
Members have had an issue with this as well.

FH - I assume you are well aware that iron can be absorbed rapidly, reach toxic levels easily, and destroy/damage liver all without any symptoms. Ferritin levels should be checked prior to and every six months during iron supplementation.
(I) so far have found that the FDA do not find ferrous sulfate safe nor effective. That much is true. The other claims ... seems to show that others certainly have side effects of anxiety/panic when taking iron supplements..
 

Many members have developed low iron levels during withdrawal which made symptoms worse.
 

Iron, copper and zinc are competitive with each other for absorption. Taking extra Iron, copper or zinc will effectively reduce the other two.
 
Vitamin C enhances iron absorption.
Copper, iron and calcium all compete for absorption, so too much of one can lead to low blood levels of the others.

Zinc (Amino Acid Chelate) 25 mg;
Zinc competes with other metals as noted above.
Zinc -
Excess zinc...
⦁ Zinc may accumulate and cause acute kidney injury.
⦁ Those with haemochromatosis may absorb larger amounts of zinc.
⦁ Various pesticides contain zinc salts.
⦁ Compounds used to make paints, rubber and dyes may also contain zinc.
⦁ Zinc absorption from dandruff shampoos and denture creams. (numerous lawsuits pending)
⦁ Supplements, Increasing in occurrence.
⦁ People taking large amounts of iron supplementation (iron can interfere with zinc absorption).
The recommended rda for zinc is 8 mg per day. Thia supplement is 3 times that level.
Excessive zinc can cause extreme anxiety.
 
https://www.ncbi.nlm...pubmed/23383172
High dose zinc supplementation induces hippocampal zinc deficiency and memory impairment with inhibition of BDNF signaling.


Manganese (Amino Acid Chelate) 10 mg;
Calcium, iron and zinc compete with manganese.
The recommended intake is 1.8 mgday for women. This dose is over 5 times that. Excess manganese can cause anxiety.


Potassium (Hydrolyzed Protein Complex) 47.5 mg;
Note - Should not be an issue

Selenium (Hydrolyzed Protein Complex) 100 mcg;
A common source of supplement toxicity.
The dietary intake is recommended at 55 mcg. This product is nearly twice that level.


Chromium (Hydrolyzed Protein Complex) 100 mcg
Note - This dose should be acceptable.


#10 invalidusername

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Posted 18 February 2020 - 05:54 PM

Hi Michayla,

 

I have just opened up this link that you have posted above and I'm going to have a good read - looks interesting. And this talk of a spiritual doctor is interesting - I think all should be considering one...

 

From your drill down, this all sounds relatively run of the mill for the stoppage. 

 

Did you come across our eBook whilst looking through the site? This will give you a lot of information at your fingertips without having to Google your way through everything as everyone here has probably already done it!!

 

Hat has got you off to a good start with the Imodium and the Omega 3, but we need to see what persists over the next few days so we can advise further with regards to supplementation and other such means of reducing the withdrawal...

 

Keep us posted.

 

IUN


#11 Michayla

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Posted 19 February 2020 - 09:16 AM

Hat,

 

I have to say, this was quite concerning. I will likely be going to the doctor soon and I'll see if he has any concerns with this vitamin as well. He knows I'm taking it, but maybe just bringing it to his attention directly is necessary. I will likely get my magnesium levels tested - are there any other tests that I can/should get in your opinion? I have been taking this vitamin since the Summer of last year, and I haven't experienced any side effects that would resemble toxicity, at least not that I've noticed.

 

IUN,

 

Thank you for the welcome! Spiritual director is a Catholic term just meaning a guide or mentor in the spiritual life. Typically they help to assess a person's relationship with God and see if the person has any incorrect ideas about who God is (because this can effect relationship with Him and then directly impact how we feel about ourselves), or about the spiritual life in general. Any person can be given the charism (gift) of spiritual direction, but only people who are part of religious life (meaning nuns/sisters, monks, priests), or people with theology degrees can officially be recommended by the Church for spiritual direction. My spiritual director is a hermit in our diocese, meaning that he's basically a monk. His way of life is particular since he was alone for a very long time, and now God is calling other lay people (people who are not in religious life) to join him in community. The most important thing he's done for me is just receiving me as I am through affirming love - basically implementing the same principles that Dr. Baars and Dr. Terruwe talk about within the context of friendship. 

 

Update for yesterday/this morning:

 

I bought Omega 3s and Imodium yesterday, both of which I think have already helped tremendously. I got 2000mg Omega 3s and the brain zaps have decreased significantly - they're still there, but it's not a debilitating, stop you in your tracks kind of shock. Since they're still there, does this mean I should increase the Omega 3s until they're gone, or is it normal for them to linger? I may just need to wait til the end of the day to see if anything changes. In other news, I took 1.5mg melatonin last night so I feel pretty heavy this morning. I've had trouble the last two nights of suddenly becoming wide awake when it's time to go to bed. Also I have a slight feeling of sickness and a very low fever (98.3), but I'm starting to think I may have a stomach bug or something


#12 fishinghat

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Posted 19 February 2020 - 09:34 AM

Increasing the Omega 3 is an option but I would give the 2000 mg dose a couple more days to see if it does the trick.
 
Studies have shown that melatonin over 1 mg actually interferes with sleep as it eliminates REM sleep and increases serotonin slightly which is a stimulant. The recommended optimum dose is 0.7 mg. When I have trouble sleeping I use a liquid sublingual (under the tongue)  dose of around 0.17 mg (3 drops of my brand). If I wake I can take another 3 drops to get back to sleep with little risky of the melatonin hangover in the morning. You are in a withdrawal so it may take a different amount to bring you relief and you may have to play with the dosage some to find what works the best.
 
I would say that you are probably not having any significant side effects from the Optivite PMT but a lot of this takes time to accumulate. Be sure and post the list of ingredients and doses. I will post them in a minute.

Also, I will be working on your other supplement today as well.

#13 fishinghat

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Posted 19 February 2020 - 09:39 AM

Caution - I have looked at three websites that sell this product and all three list different ingredients. Similar but not the same. This is very worrisome. You will notice this list has several more ingredients listed at the end. I will review those later today and dig further into this.

 

 

Ingredients
Serving Size: 6 Tablets
Servings Per Container: 30
Amount Per Serving / % Daily Value
Vitamin A (as retinyl palmitate and 60% as beta-carotene) 12,500 IU 250%
Vitamin C 1500 mg 2500%
Vitamin D (as cholecalciferol) 100 IU 25%
Vitamin E (as d-alpha tocopheryl succinate) 100 IU 333%
Thiamin (as thiamine mononitrate) 25 mg 1666%
Riboflavin 25 mg 1471%
Niacin (as niacinamide) 25 mg 125%
Vitamin B6 (as pyridoxine HCl) 300 mg 15000%
Folic Acid 200 mcg 50%
Vitamin B12 (as hydroxocobalamin) 60 mcg 1000%
Biotin 60 mcg 20%
Pantothenic Acid (as Ca Pantothenate) 25 mg 250%
Iron (as amino acid chelate) 15 mg 83%
Iodine (as hydrolyzed protein complex) 75 mcg 50%
Calcium (as amino acid chelate) 125 mg 12.5%
Magnesium (as amino acid chelate) 250 mg 63%
Zinc (as amino acid chelate) 25 mg 167%
Selenium (as hydrolyzed protein complex) 100 mcg 143%
Copper (as amino acid chelate) 0.5 mg 25%
Manganese (as amino acid chelate) 10 mg 500%
Chromium (as hydrolyzed protein complex) 100 mcg 83%
Choline (from Choline bitartrate) 313 mg *
Citrus Bioflavonoids 250 mg *
Betaine HCl 100 mg *
Pancreatin 4X 93 mg *
Inositol 24 mg *
p-Aminobenzoic Acid (PABA) 25 mg *
Rutin 25 mg *
*Daily Value (DV) not established

Other Ingredients: Stearic acid, carnauba wax, hydroxypropyl methylcellulose, silica, magnesium stearate, pharmaceutical glaze, titanium dioxide, and natural flavors.


#14 Michayla

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Posted 19 February 2020 - 09:48 AM

I always get my Optivite from this website, the ingredients are posted there as well:

 

https://www.optimox....optivite-p.m.t/

 

The frustrating thing is, I really do think something in this vitamin has been working to help with my depression and irritability during PMS. Potentially having to start from scratch is kind of disheartening. 

 

I forgot to thank you again in my last post Hat! I really do appreciate the time and effort you've put into researching this stuff (and literally everything else you've researched, I appreciate that too). Having a kick in the rear to go see my doctor about this supplement is a good thing. Thank you also for the info on the melatonin!


#15 fishinghat

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Posted 19 February 2020 - 09:57 AM

This is from the manufacturers website (see below) and confirms that the list of ingredients I just posted is accurate.

 

https://www.optimox....optivite-p.m.t/

Optivite® PMT is the first multivitamin - multimineral supplement formulated for use by women with Premenstrual Syndrome (PMS).* Available to PMS sufferers over the past 30 years, Optivite® underwent several clinical studies published in peer-reviewed medical journals: 3 open trials (1-3) and 2 double blind placebo-controlled studies.*(4,5) A 50% reduction of PMS complaints has been observed in those studies following 1 to 3 months on this supplement.* When 313 PMS sufferers were followed for up to 5 years on this program, an interesting observation was that the number of tablets of Optivite required to maintain the improvement in PMS decreased over time:
⦁ 5.2 + 0.36 tablets between 2 and 6 months
⦁ 4.8 + 0.6 tablets between 7 and 12 months
⦁ 4.3 + 0.48 tablets between 13 and 24 months
⦁ 3.2 + 0.34 tablets over 24 months.*(1)
With over 100,000 women on this program during the first 5 years of availability of Optivite®, not a single documented case of Vitamin A toxicity or peripheral neuropathy due to Vitamin B-6 has been reported.*(1) Optivite® is recommended as part of a total dietary program to obtain best results.*(6,7)

Accidental over dose of iron-containing products is a leading causes of fatal poisoning in children under 6. Keep this product out of the reach of children. In case of accidental overdose, call a doctor or poison control center immediately. Store in a cool, dry place.

 

References:
1. Abraham GE, Rumley RE. J Reprod Med. 1987 Jun;32(6):405-22. PMID: 2956416
2. Goei GS, Abraham GE. J Reprod Med. 1983 Aug;28(8):527-31. PMID: 6685186
3. Fuchs N, Hakim M, Abraham GE. J Appl Nut. 37:1 1985.
4. Chakmakjian ZH, Higgins CE, Abraham GE. J Appl Nut. 37:12, 1985.
5. London RS, Bradley L, Chiamori NY. J Am Coll Nutr. 1991 Oct;10(5):494-9. PMID: 1955626
6. Abraham GE. J Appl Nut. 36:103, 1984.
7. Abraham GE. J Reprod Med. 1983 Jul;28(7):446-64. PMID: 6684167

 

Note - I have confirmed their study claims in the medical journals HOWEVER it should be noted that during the medical research none of the studies were longer than 3 menstrual cycles and no blood samples were taken to determine if there was any buildup of components in the patients blood. It is interesting to note the manufacturers statement concerning the effects of iron, Vitamin A and B6 establishes the fact that they were concerned about this as well.

 

You are very welcome. Anytime.

 

More info to follow.
 


#16 fishinghat

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Posted 19 February 2020 - 10:20 AM

https://www.drugs.co...de-effects.html
Optivite PMT Side Effects

What are some side effects that I need to call my doctor about right away?

WARNING/CAUTION: Even though it may be rare, some people may have very bad and sometimes deadly side effects when taking a drug. Tell your doctor or get medical help right away if you have any of the following signs or symptoms that may be related to a very bad side effect:

⦁ Signs of an allergic reaction, like rash; hives; itching; red, swollen, blistered, or peeling skin with or without fever; wheezing; tightness in the chest or throat; trouble breathing, swallowing, or talking; unusual hoarseness; or swelling of the mouth, face, lips, tongue, or throat.
⦁ Very upset stomach or throwing up.
⦁ Severe diarrhea.
⦁ Very bad constipation.
⦁ Muscle weakness.
⦁ Numbness and tingling.

What are some other side effects of this drug?

All drugs may cause side effects. However, many people have no side effects or only have minor side effects. Call your doctor or get medical help if any of these side effects or any other side effects bother you or do not go away:
⦁ Upset stomach or throwing up.
⦁ Diarrhea.
⦁ Constipation.
 


#17 fishinghat

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Posted 19 February 2020 - 01:38 PM

Here is the info on the other ingredients in Optivite PMT.

Citrus Bioflavonoids 250 mg *
Note - Should not be an issue.

Betaine HCl 100 mg *
Betaine hydrochloride - (Trimethylglycine)
https://www.ncbi.nlm...les/PMC4991651/
It is not uncommon to see PPI-induced hypochlorhydria (low stomach acid) in patients on long-term PPIs. The “HCL Challenge” followed by supplementation (HCL/betaine/pepsin) is usually well tolerated and when used appropriately can stabilize physiological processes, support nutrient assimilation, and aid in the digestion of proteins (providing amino acids and preventing food allergies).

https://www.ncbi.nlm...les/PMC3946491/
Gastric Re-acidification with Betaine HCl in Healthy Volunteers with Rabeprazole-Induced Hypochlorhydria
 

Note - Raises stomach acid content.

"The Food and Drug Administration of the United States approved anhydrous trimethylglycine (also known by the brand name Cystadane) for the treatment of homocystinuria, a disease caused by abnormally high homocysteine levels at birth.[11] TMG is also used as the hydrochloride salt (marketed as betaine hydrochloride or betaine HCl). Betaine hydrochloride was once permitted in over-the-counter (OTC) drugs as a gastric aid in the United States. US Code of Federal Regulations, Title 21, Section 310.540, which became effective on November 10, 1993, banned betaine hydrochloride from being used in OTC products due to insufficient evidence to classify it as "generally recognized as safe and effective".[12]

Wiki

TMG supplementation may cause diarrhea, stomach upset, or nausea. TMG supplementation lowers homocysteine but also raises LDL-cholesterol.[13] Wiki

https://www.drugs.co...de-effects.html
Betaine - Side Effects
Diarrhea
nausea
stomach upset
Betaine may cause a body odor. Other side effects not listed above may also occur in some patients. If you notice any other effects, check with your doctor.

https://vitagene.com...e-hydrochloride
Betaine Hydrochloride increases stomach acidity, so antacids will debilitate. For the same reason, H2-blockers and Proton-pump Inhibitors (PPIs) will be less effective. The H2 blockers include cimetidine (Tagamet), ranitidine (Zantac), nizatidine (Axid), and famotidine (Pepcid). PPIs include omeprazole (Prilosec), lansoprazole (Prevacid), rabeprazole (Aciphex), pantoprazole (Protonix), and esomeprazole (Nexium).


Pancreatin 4X 93 mg *
Pancreatic enzymes, also known as pancrelipase and pancreatin, are commercial mixtures of amylase, lipase, and protease. Constipation, diarrhea and belly pain are the most common side effects.

https://www.drugs.co...atin-index.html
Iron, folic acid, magnesium and other minerals may reduce the activity of this component.


Inositol 24 mg *
Inositol is a carbocyclic sugar that is abundant in brain and other mammalian tissues, mediates cell signal transduction in response to a variety of hormones, neurotransmitters and growth factors and participates in osmoregulation. It is a sugar alcohol with half the sweetness of table sugar. It is made naturally in humans from glucose.
Wiki

Recommended dose is 2 to 14 grams. This is significantly greater.

https://www.ncbi.nlm...pubmed/24424706
Our results suggest that inositol may be beneficial for depressed patients, especially those with PMDD.

https://www.ncbi.nlm...pubmed/10847563
...suggesting an anxiolytic effect of inositol.

https://www.ncbi.nlm.../pubmed/9352475
inositol had virtually no effect on these responses

Note - Research is very limited with only a slight effect on anxiety noted in most cases.

Posted by Scuffy1209 on 27 August 2018 - 02:59 PM in Weaning Off Cymbalta
In terms of supplements my Dr has me on: inositol, phosphotidyl serene, magnisium, and LDN.

Posted by gail on 12 April 2014 - 01:39 PM in Weaning Off Cymbalta
Funny, saw my witch doctor this week, explained what I was fealing, and gave me capsules with gaba 100mg combined with inositol 500mg and passiflora to calm the brain, she says.
Will start tomorrow, I researched it, and inositol is good for anxiety. Maybe at much larger doses, but, for the moment, that will be enough for me.

Posted by sk8mom on 08 June 2013 - 05:40 PM in Nutritional Support
I live in Canada too, Naturopathic Doctor told me how B complex is important for our nervous system I am taking a multi B (Genestra brands) and most B's in this one go from 50-150mg, there is also Biotin, choline and inositol in it.

Posted by gsmommy on 04 October 2012 - 10:32 PM in Weaning Off Cymbalta
and 1 tablespoon of soy lecithin for the inositol properties that help with anxiety and balancing blood sugar

Posted by Ih8cymbalta on 06 December 2011 - 09:41 PM in Nutritional Support
I've been taking inositol and choline during this process. Doesn't seem to do much of anything.

Posted by alkirk123 on 28 September 2009 - 06:55 PM in How to Find Support
I've been off about 3 weeks now. I'm taking Inositol supplements, Omega 3, a multi vitamin, St. John's Wort, Valerian. I'm really tiring of all the supplements!



p-Aminobenzoic Acid (PABA) 25 mg *
Generally considered safe.

Rutin 25 mg *
Rutin (rutoside or rutinoside)[10] and other dietary flavonols are under preliminary clinical research for their potential biological effects, such as in reducing post-thrombotic syndrome, venous insufficiency, or endothelial dysfunction, but there was no high-quality evidence for their safe and effective uses as of 2018.[10][11][12] As a flavonol among similar flavonoids, rutin has low bioavailability due to poor absorption, high metabolism, and rapid excretion that collectively make its potential for use as a therapeutic agent limited.[10]

This is a relatively low dose.


#18 invalidusername

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Posted 19 February 2020 - 06:51 PM

Just to confirm the issue with the melatonin. Too much is for sure not a good thing. It has also found to bring on depression the next day in a few members when used in excess. It will also throw your circadian rhythm out of whack if used too frequently at larger doses. Better than z-drugs, but still need to be careful with it.

 

The idea of a spiritual helper is great in my opinion. We all need guidance from time to time - especially at these time when our sense of direction can fail us...


#19 fishinghat

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Posted 20 February 2020 - 09:53 AM

Working on information on the Symplex F. More to follow.

#20 fishinghat

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Posted 20 February 2020 - 11:29 AM

Symplex F

Proprietary Blend: 138 mg total of...

Magnesium citrate
(See previous information on magnesium)

bovine ovary PMG™ extract - 30 mg
No scientific research available.
Sold primarily to increase breast size hand convert testosterone to estrogen in those males wishing to become female.

The following information is from a non-medical website with no references to the source of information.

Side Effects
Even after taking care of all precautions, there are some side effects of the bovine ovary which are mentioned as follows:
1. Increased hair growth
This is usually not a bad side effect as no one will mind an increase in the hair unless on unwanted areas
1. Change in Menstrual cycle
Different women who used bovine ovary have reported that they have lighter and heavier periods. In such cases, if any of the customers start experiencing heavy periods or severe cramping, then it is highly recommended that the customer should stop taking bovine ovary and consult the doctor as soon as possible. You may want to reduce the dosage later on after consultation with the doctor.
1. Allergic Reaction
If there is an allergic reaction to taking the bovine ovary pills, then you should stop taking the pills at once and contact your physician.
1. Frequent Headaches
When you start taking the bovine ovary pills, you will experience enhanced growth of the hormones and your body might take some time in getting adjusted to this increase. If you experience frequent headaches, then it is recommended that you consult a doctor and follow his advice. You might want to stop taking the pills for some time and when you don’t feel any a headache anymore, you can continue taking the pills.
1. Weight Gain
If you want to make the most out of the bovine ovary therapy, then you need to consume sufficient proteins too along with the bovine ovary pills. While this will work great for enhancing your breasts, it will also increase the consumption of protein shakes due to which the other parts of the body where you might not want growth may also gain weight.
1. Acne
Consuming bovine ovary is like re-creating the puberty phase for the second time and stimulating the growth hormones. While it might provide you with improvement in the underdeveloped breasts, but the teenage acne might come straight back which is highly undesirable.


bovine adrenal PMG™ extract - 15 mg
No medical research articles found.

https://www.webmd.co...adrenal-extract
By mouth, adrenal extract is used for low adrenal function, fatigue, stress, lowered resistance to illness, severe allergies, asthma, certain skin conditions such as eczema and psoriasis, and rheumatoid arthritis.
There isn’t enough information available about the safety of adrenal extract when taken by mouth. But, there are serious concerns. Adrenal extract is made from adrenal glands gathered from slaughterhouses, and possibly from sick or diseased animals. Do not use adrenal extract from countries where a condition known as bovine spongiform encephalitis (BSE) has been reported, more commonly known as "mad cow disease." Countries where BSE has been reported include Great Britain, France, the Netherlands, Portugal, Luxembourg, Ireland, Switzerland, Oman, Belgium, and others. If you can't tell if the adrenal extract is from a country without BSE, don't use it.

Note - The bulk of these supplements suggest it is good for a condition called "adrenal insufficiency" a condition promoted by three doctors and which has been disproven by medical research. The evidence shows that taking adrenal extract the production of adrenaline and noradrenaline is significantly increased. It also takes the natural production of these chemicals months to return to notmal after stopping the supplement. The use of this substance during withdrawal could be devastating due to the increased levels of these two components which would seriously increase anxiety.

bovine pituitary PMG™ extract - 10 mg
No scientific research was found.

https://www.livestro...uitary-extract/
Bovine pituitary extract, or BPE, is a filtered, water-based extract of fresh pituitary glands from cattle. As a source of growth factors and hormones, BPE is used in tissue culture research to support various cell lines, such as skin, breast, lung and prostate. You might consider taking BPE to address any number of issues, including thyroid, growth, reproductive or adrenal problems. However, the evidence of benefit from such use is limited, and you could risk exposure to infectious agents, including those that cause "mad cow disease."

No further information found.

bovine thyroid PMG™ extract (processed to substantially remove its thyroxine) - 10 mg
No medical research found.

Most data on bovine thyroid extract reflect the severe health risks and even death but those are mostly atributed to the effects of thyroxine which is supposedly removed from this product. One would assume that other thyroid elements would still be present and could effect health and activity of your existing thyroid.

All doses listed are approximate. (per the manufacturer)


#21 Michayla

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Posted 20 February 2020 - 02:56 PM

Hat and IUN,

 

Thank you for the info. 

Update for today/yesterday: I was just really tired yesterday and I didn't get nearly enough sleep last night, not because I didn't take melatonin, just because I didn't get to sleep early enough. The thing bothering me most today is slow cognition. It's like I have to think really hard about everything. My head feels funny. I have a doctor's appt with my family dr., not my psychiatrist, next week so I'll be bringing some of these things to his attention along with the supplements.

Also I think the Omega 3s are helping still to take the edge off the brain zaps. I may increase the dose sometime in the next couple days still


#22 fishinghat

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Posted 20 February 2020 - 03:44 PM

Sounds good. The thinking part is often referred to as brain fog.  lol Very common.


#23 Michayla

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Posted 20 February 2020 - 03:52 PM

Is it possible to know how long the brain fog will last?


#24 frog

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Posted 20 February 2020 - 03:55 PM

Hey Michayla,

Welcome to the forum.

Are you still taking the 30mg or did you quit them cold turkey?? If you stopped cold turkey and you're only a week off, you might want to consider getting back on a dosage of Cymbalta and tapering the rest of the way. This is just my opinion as someone who cold turkey'd from a dose lower than yours and has paid dearly for it and would hate to see it happen to someone else. It sounds like your symptoms are improving so maybe FH and IUN would disagree with me, but my experience was also pretty manageable initially, just brain zaps, irritability and some diarrhea which were improving at first and then 3 weeks later my adrenaline spiked and I entered a constant fight or flight state and have been recovering from that for 4 months. It's a lot better than it once was but I've still got a ways to go to be completely back on the other side of things. 

 

Just my two cents for whatever they're worth. If you're still taking the 30mg then please disregard!


#25 Michayla

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Posted 20 February 2020 - 03:58 PM

I'm not longer taking 30mg, I did quit cold turkey. I appreciate your input very much. I'm hoping I can avoid a relapse into the withdrawals, it's just so hard to consider getting back on any dose. What made your adrenaline spike, do you know?


#26 frog

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Posted 20 February 2020 - 04:14 PM

I don't think anything triggered it that I can think of. Maybe over those few weeks Cymbalta that was still stored in my body was being released and that kept things mostly afloat. All I know is that I was doing better and I thought I beat the whole thing and one Saturday I woke up and my husband and I walked to a brunch place and I was feeling weird and off and I thought it would settle down but instead it just got worse and worse. I was just overwhelmed with anxiety and restlessness and nausea like I've never experienced before in my entire life and it didn't stop. We had just ordered but my husband had to ask them to pack it to go and get us a Lyft to take us home as fast as possible. From that point on it was just relentless. 

 

It's been 4 months now since that day, and I now take beta blockers twice a day to avoid any major adrenaline/anxiety episodes, as well as some sleep aides because around the 1 month mark I suddenly stopped being able to fall asleep or stay asleep. 

 

I definitely understand the desire to be over and done with Cymbalta, but if I could go back in time knowing what I know I would NEVER quit cold turkey. 


#27 fishinghat

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Posted 20 February 2020 - 05:44 PM

Hi Michayla

 

The brain fog is one of the first symptoms that develops and typically lasts about a 3 to 4 months after your last dose. It is worth pointing out that there are people who have no withdrawal from Cymbalta and many others where the Cymbalta withdrawal only lasts a few weeks so it varies considerably.


#28 Mxpro32

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Posted 20 February 2020 - 06:37 PM

My brain fog was bad during my taper. I would stop mid sentence forgetting what I was saying. It wasn't so bad after I was completely off.

#29 frog

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Posted 20 February 2020 - 07:19 PM

Hi Michayla

 

The brain fog is one of the first symptoms that develops and typically lasts about a 3 to 4 months after your last dose. It is worth pointing out that there are people who have no withdrawal from Cymbalta and many others where the Cymbalta withdrawal only lasts a few weeks so it varies considerably.

 

I very much hope you're in this group Michayla! good luck!


#30 invalidusername

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Posted 22 February 2020 - 06:07 PM

It is always worth noting that the brain fog is often exacerbated by stress. It is a "chicken and egg" situation as it is difficult to know which is leading the other. But the more you can calm yourself when these situations occur, the easier it will become. Accept that this is not your doing, and that it is not premanent. It is no different to the bruise that following getting your hand trapped in the door. When you move your fingers it will hurt; therefore, you think, and your brain will have it equivalency of hurting, which in this case is not being able to thinking clearly. 

 

It is impossible to avoid using it, like you might do with another part of the body, so the key here is to relax and not engage with it as you have to use it. Your neurons are firing off and reaching a proverbial dead end where they were once linked to other parts of the hippocampus and the front cortex (all the areas affected by the drug that become scrambled once withdrawn). 

 

Take things slow, avoid stress, and accept that it will be with you for a while. But even more importantly, keep telling yourself it will pass and not to dwell on the negative. When you break your leg, you don't worry that you will never walk again, because you have faith that bones can heal themselves. So it is with the brain.





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