[nicr]

I read somewhere on here that Cymbalta can permanently alter your brain chemistry, which of course scared me. I did a lot of searching and didn't find anything to support this claim. Does anyone know the truth???? -- With documentation-- not speculation.

And FYI- I did go to the FDA website to check out cymbalta. There were many adverse effects reported because people opened their capsules when trying to wean off. I would suggest NOT doing this.

Thanks- N

[MaureenV]

Hi Nicr,


Proplems with people opening capsules occurs when little balls get crushed, or when people take them without putting them back in a similar time release capsule. That's why those who originally recommended it here have reiterated that it is important to do it properly and carefully.


There's nothing special about the Cymbalta outer capsule. The correct number of balls inside an equivalent capsule is going to work just the same as a (eg) 10mg capsule provided by Eli Lilly.

With the opening and dividing the devil's in the detail I'm afraid.

I would never, ever, ever, consider swallowing the little balls on their own, which I suspect is what some did.

I'm having extraordinary success doing this - currently down to dividing a 60mg into six other capsules and even though I'm slowly reducing the dose, the withdrawal effects (apart from itchiness grrr) are nothing compared with trying to do alternate days.


For anyone deeply concerned about this, I would suggest going to a chemist and having them do it for you, although if I were a chemist I think I'd want to know that the doctor had OKd it.

I agree speculation is not useful (although speculation is often what starts the process of research); unfortunately with the competition for research funds, the main research comes from: guess who?

I don't know about other countries, but Australia has a poor record on research; we frequently lose our best and brightest to overseas institutions.

kind regards,
Maureen.

[missy]

Maureen-
Thanks for mentioning the itchiness! I have had that ,too, in withdrawal. I didn't realize it could be connected with
withdrawal--I thought it was some other problem! It is gone now...although my skin in general feels better as I started using Aveeno body lotion for Extremely Dry skin. Glad I found out about that anyway!
Missy

[MaureenV]

Hi Missy,


Good! I'm glad someone has benefited from my comment - I've certainly benefited from the comments of others.


Strangely enough, the itchiness while ON cymbalta was one of my problems (I think it IS listed as a side effect), then when I started reducing the dose, the itchiness went away, then came back with a vengeance when I got down to about 12mg.

I've been using those weird looking gloves in the shower (which I always do anyway) but don't know if they're helping. Also strangely, I now find that moisturising my skin actually makes it worse! I had very dry skin due to menopause (I'm 57) and found any old moisturizer helpful then, so perhaps I need to look out for one for sensitive skin at the moment.

I do have an ongoing minor problem with eczema, though. I've read quite a few on here mentioning the itchiness.


Yours in scratchiness,

Maureen.

[mysticcherokee]

I was up and now im down. Im so worried about my brain hurting. Been seeing a psychologist, and I metioned that Id had a cat scan done that showed brain atrophy. Voiced that my brain still hurts and Im really not feeling well. Weak as all get out. Told him that my last appt with my mneuro went something like this: Me to dr k, the neuro: Am I going to get early onset dementia, alzheimers, or am I already init. Do they know such things, do you? Dr k to me: Your worried enough as it is, schedule an appt with a shrink, his name is dr m or something ,down your way, and hes a personal friend of mine. No, I dont think youre crazy and thanks for understanding that Im so busy. WTH! Ive been awfulizing(as fibro people tend to do) ever since! Today I call the neuro: me to nurse on voicemail. Need to know why im being referred, that doc isnt i n network and staff isnt being that helkpful in getting me in or finding out why im being refferred. Nurse calls me back later and says. Doc K. just wants you to talk with someone, but we understand now(pscyhologist requested dementia records per ME) that doc W is seeing you and thatll suffice. Just wants you to talk to someone about how the meds might be affecting you in a bad way(NOT ON ANY)Me to her: I was under the impression that there may be early dementia that Im experiencing, nurse to moi:OMGoodness, no. me to nurse: well thats what Ive been sitting here awfulizing, this is NOT good, please give my best to Dr K.
Folks theres a difference between a shrink and a psychologist right, and I know the diff.I dont see my pschologist for another ten days(hes outta town one week outta the month, I find out after seing him for some time, cancelations and stuff musta fallen right around the time when id sched, ya know what i mean.)outta town for a week a month aint good right now, for me. This is a small town and there arent many psychologists or pill wrtin shrinks. I want to fir em all. Im really upset I cant seem to get momentum of care. Hate dealin with switchin new doctors. Im bumming and down. Needed to vent. Im a fibromyalgia pioneer and was called a liar for more years than it was treated. Ive white coat phobia, and JUST DONT WANTA DO THIS, I HATE DOCTORS. Any suggestions, thanks for letting me vent. Mystic(not so much)Please dont mind if I dont spell check, im bummin!

[mysticcherokee]

I just want to know what neuro saw with the brain atrophy scan, dx, prognosis. Is it perm brain damage from cymbalta. Did I suffer a mini stroke the night i thought i was havin a stroke, and he never called me back, the neuro. I was gonna go to the er but was afraid theyd put me back on the cymbalta. After that was when my brain really started hurting. We are not supposed to be aware of our brains! He blew me off and didnt call to see the matter. did I have a stroke?
was it seratonin toxicity, at any time.Ive SEEN him since all of this, and he said "your worried enough, schedule with a shrink" First thought from me was he doesnt wanta tell me its imminent death.YES I WAS MORE WORRIED and my psychologist is outta town till monday. Nurse said the have Dr. W call dr K at next visit oif mine. WTHHHHHHHHECK. Yes Im awfulizing. We onlky get one brain/one life, that hopefully doesnt endd after a long twilight, not knowing people ya should know and death by neumonia or something, more happenstance. I need structure and a spontaneous death for Heavans sake! Im wiggin! Mystic

[mysticcherokee]

Its not supposed to be Tabby, I just cant seem to get them to talk to me, on my time or theirs. They dont want me to awfulize, but at the same time dont tell me definitively anything. Thanks for your post. I appreciate it very much:) Mystic

[MaureenV]

madtabby said:

Quote

Proplems with people opening capsules occurs when little balls get crushed, or when people take them without putting them back in a similar time release capsule. That's why those who originally recommended it here have reiterated that it is important to do it properly and carefully.

Okay, I was going to pick up gelatin capsules at the healthfood store, is that not a good idea? Do I need capsules that are the same density as the Cymbalta capsules? Because all we get here are the 60's and 30's. I've never heard of empty capsules.

Hi madtabby, I got clear gelatine capsules from a large chemist. I've had a great deal of success operating this way, so if a random sample of one is any use ... :))

The original posts I read didn't comment on density etc, and as there's no comment on the carton etc, can only assume they're adequate for the purpose.

Isn't it because the drug is supposed to reach a certain point in your body before it starts being absorbed ???


Anybody ???


cheers, Maureen.

[MaureenV]

mysticcherokee said:

Its not supposed to be Tabby, I just cant seem to get them to talk to me, on my time or theirs. They dont want me to awfulize, but at the same time dont tell me definitively anything. Thanks for your post. I appreciate it very much:) Mystic

Don't know what to say, Mystic, except feel free to vent here anytime.

I can't comprehend how difficult it must be to not be believed in this area. I've been lucky and only seen a GP, who's believed everything I've said. I HAVE however had two serious health issues in my life where I've been told it was psychosomatic.

(As I said - serious - the first one landed me in hospital for over a month at 13 I was so thin after six months of one doctor not believing there was a problem. We moved, Mum took me to a new doctor who's first words were 'who let this child get in this APPALLING condition'. Even 40 years later I remember the relief at someone believing there was actually something wrong. The second left me unable to exercise properly for 20 years - now it's been solved I'm fitter at 56 than I was at 40.)

So I DO identify with your frustration, which would be even harder in this area.


stay in touch,

Maureen.

[Junior]

Mystic

I cannot believe that the Dr who ordered the MRI hasn't sat down and explained things to you. Surely that is unethical?
FOr what it's worth - and I am no expert - I believe brain atrophy refers to the loss of brain cells, ie, neurons. That is not to say that it is irreversible. It's my understanding that this loss of cells occurs when in a state of Major Depression http://www.psycheducation.org/mechanism ... mIntro.htm (along with reduced dendritic branching - think of tree branches with smaller branches emanating from them and therefore less connections with other cells) and that modern anti-depressants actually reverse the process. (Got this from a journal article that was posted at another forum).

I'm not 100% sure (I don't think anyone is) but I think this cell loss (brain atrophy) can also be brought on by the use of anti-depressants. It is a prime reason, I believe, for the withdrawal problems many of us have.

Now for the good news! The human brain is incredibly plastic and can regenerate - but - it takes time. I don't know if there are any stats but anecdotal evidence suggests that the time spent on a drug makes little difference. It seems to be the way a person's neurochemistry is and how it responds to drug treatment.

Hope this helps :)
Junior

[mysticcherokee]

Wow! Youre all so very kind, it blows my mind:) Ill have to munch on this food for thought, and some other great posts, and perhaps post later. Im not very positive on the subject of late, and dont want to be spouting a bunch of unneeded negativity, so I wont. Thanks for the posts, and the bright side. I truly appreciate them! Mystic

Happy B-Day Junior, and many happy returns!

[mysticcherokee]

Maureen.[/quote]
The second left me unable to exercise properly for 20 years - now it's been solved I'm fitter at 56 than I was at 40.)

So I DO identify with your frustration, which would be even harder in this area.


stay in touch,

Maureen.[/quote]


If I start exercising at fifty, can I still tone my flab. Ive been on the couch since the beginning of the year pretty much, tho Im coming around slowly. I need to do it for my brain/bod/energy level/preparation for a wheel chair eventually. Is it possible to firm bat wings at all. I heard not, and thats seriously gloomy. Dint havem before the couch episode, and most inside mirrors removed due to intermittent renovations. After i got a full length view the first time I had a notion, I almost screamed out loud. Ive got stuff in all the wrong places, and OH LAWD Ive been too vain. Im not willing to gib tHAT completely up just yet. Talk to me Maureen, and tell me the truth, puhlleeeaassee. Mystic ( Lets sue the ba88tards!!!!)brains and beauty, they have messed with the wroing vices!!

[MaureenV]

Er, the truth, Mystic?


I think I value my life too much. If I tell you the truth you might have to kill me.


Any exercise at any age has got to be better than none. I suspect we get to an age though we're you can only back track so far and from what I've seen of people older, that's about 65. If you get to that age and you haven't exercised much or eaten properly for 30 years, well, it ain't looking good. That's just my personal opinion from looking around me. 'They' (who? who?) say that between sixty and seventy is the most dangerous age to be. If you get past that point, you probably don't have a genetic predisposition to many of life's fatal diseases: heart, diabetes, cancer etc. Not saying it's plain sailing after that (ho ho) but you get my drift.

Ah the tatas as my friend calls them (they wave goodbye when you do). I haven't had much luck on that front being fit or not. You'd think that building up muscle would bulk out the fat, but doesn't seem to. I think the only solution is to wave like the queen (top half of arm plastered firmly against body, hand waving limply) or have your arm way up above your head to wave, looking equally stoopid. Or just not wave; say you've developed an allergy to it.

I've now got fat on the inside of my knees, which I never had before (it's there even when my weight's down - as in BMI of 20).

The first time I noticed how bad my neck had become was when I went to the dentist, and at that half reclined position they have you in handed me a mirror. GASP!! I then read a funny story on the English newspaper The Guardian, where the 40 something sex advice writer said she was crawling around on hands and knees picking up toddler toys and happened upon one of those kiddie mirrors. She instantly resolved to never have sex 'on top' again with her husband unless he was wearing a blindfold. Kinky. I notice now if I hang my head to one side my face likes to go for the ride, too.

Then a few months ago I had my eyelashes tinted, and the woman handed me the mirror while I was still lying on my back - it had all gone - I looked 10 years younger!! That's it, I thought! Just spend the rest of my life lying back in bed. No wonder women in the past took to their beds. They knew which light they looked best in!

Sorry to hear that you're going to end up in a wheelchair. I guess that means you have to make the most of any energy you have to build up your strength before that ??? I read a great book recently, by a 35yo bloke who broke his back falling out of a tree when his wife was 5 months pregnant. He doesn't sidestep the awful bits (plenty of tears and feeling devastated) but he writes with such an irreverent sense of humour that his book is a joy to read. It's called 'Looking up' and the author's name is Tim Rushby-Smith.

I must say I find the bike riding one of the most beneficial for me. Being a serious pear shape (when I'm happy with my rear I'm usually looking in the tweenies section for a bra. :) ) I find it leaves my hips a different (better, obviously) shape.

I wouldn't blame the couch for the bat wings. I've found some of these things happen overnight. They obviously can't, I think we just suddenly notice them one (bad) day.


take care, Maureen.

[mysticcherokee]

Thanks Maureen. Hope I dont end up in a wheechair and dont have that dx yet. Thank goodness. Im feeling my age tho and if it is to happen evetually I want to be stronger. If Ive ever had a motto in life its"Prove em wrong" in a good way, and so I wil......I lost a bunch of weight a while back and thats probably contributed to the bat wings. My ta tas dont look so hot(unless Im laying down) either now that you mentiuon it. On another post I mentiuoned the "not belieeing" thing with doctors. I wanted to quantify that that issue was peimarily with the fibromyalgia/chronic fatigue, and primarily with the VA, while I got the fibromyalgaia in the service (when there was no such thing) and was railroaded out with a disability wiout pay for it then and now. In general the fms has given me white coat phobia, and I am very sensitive to Doctors on one hand afraid to take them to task on another. Im strange. Im trying to do a liitle more as I can, each day. Hate house work, but its gone to crap since Ive been ill, and Im the only one that cares. Its exercise and it makes me feel better to see it clean. Pschol said to do something for myself. Voiloi, my dream....HOUSEWORK!! LOL Cracked me up about laying in bed always, that the one thing I havent done. I had a similar experience at the dentist, but it was whitening. they should make those mirrors just big enough to shoe the teeth)in natural light!) Thanks for posting Mystic

[MaureenV]

Mystic, it's quite a task to become self-assured with ALL doctors when you've had bad experiences.


My first experience of being misdiagnosed was mainly due to my mother believing so much in the power of doctors that she never took me to another one until we moved states, despite the fact that there was obviously something wrong with me. She's now 93 and lives in a town of 60,000 people; her specialist is therefore only a five minute taxi ride. He's always running at least an hour, sometimes two hours behind. She'll say 'oh the poor man works so hard, he always looks so tired, he must have had an emergency'. My response is, anyone who's late on a consistent basis just has poor time management skills and they get away with it because of people like her just putting up with it. If his surgery hours keep going till seven every night then that's the way he should schedule his appointments OR get his receptionist to ring people and tell them to wait at home another hour or so. I have one specialist who's never more than five or so minutes late. When he apologized for being 15 mins late one day, I just looked at him and said ... um it's only 12 minutes. His response was 'there's no reason why I should assume my time is more valuable than yours'. When I commented that my current GP was always an hour late (which was tricky with a small baby) he said 'some people were late for kindergarten'.

I know that rant is JUST about timeliness, but I now check when I make the appointment what that person's usually like with time. Of course, things happen, particularly to doctors, but not every time, and not every day. If it does, THEY'RE the ones who are at fault.

I'm sure some of them don't appreciate me being able to question what they're suggesting, but I usually find once I've been seeing someone for a while we get along extremely well, because although I might want a lot of input into what's going to happen, once I agree to take something, or do something, I do it or get back to them if I'm unhappy with how it's all happening.

Ah yes, housework. The joy of it all. My motto is no one went to their grave saying 'I wish I'd kept the house cleaner'.


You do know the dust doesn't get any thicker after four years don't you?


And by the way, haven't seen your joke contribution yet, hmmmmmm?


Maureen.

[snicklefritz]

As I read the post about itchiness I am covering my feet in calamine lotion! Today I bought Probiotics, Fibro response and fish oil.
V

[SarahT]

I am scared......When hubby came off cymbalta we opend the capsules as told and seperated the balls. and he injested just the straight balls off a spoon.

What happens when you do this???

[nursedeborah]

just saw the question "isn't the pill supposed to be in a certain part of your body before it's absorbed"
Everything that goes in you mouth, and down your throat goes into your stomach:)

Debbie

[MaureenV]

Er, yes, but many drugs are designed to not be absorbed until they reach a certain part of your body. In fact many drugs would be dangerous if you crunched them up in your mouth, one of the blood pressure drugs is like that, oxycontin has a warning to take the tablet whole.

Other drugs (which I've also had with extreme BP) are designed to be absorbed in the mouth.


That's my understanding of the main problem with taking the balls on their own - the risk that they'll be floating around in the water used to wash them down, dissolving much faster than they otherwise would with the gel capsule dissolving slowly, or being damaged with teeth.

Some drugs are damaged by the contents of the mouth/stomach/intestines and it depends on the drug which area of the body affects them.


Sarah, was it the doctor or the chemist who said to just take the beads on their own?


Maureen.

[SarahT]

It was his doctor.

[Ammycin]

Cymbalta prescribed to each patient will vary. Note that side effects of Cymbalta cannot be anticipated. Cymbalta can cause side effects such as drowsiness, dizziness, mild nausea, sleep problems, and muscle pain. The side effects of Generic for Cymbalta are most likely to be minor and temporary. Consult with your doctor and follow his directions completely.