469 replies to this topic

[LeVana]

after zero the worst part lasts three months to me...but as a reminder, i took dulox for 10 years.
maybe you'll get over it quicker. looney, it will become less even if you don't believe it.

[looneytune]

Thanks all

[LeVana]

looney, how are you?

[looneytune]

Good days/Bad days LV and one month off dreaded Duloxetine tomorrow!

 

Don't feel quite myself yet....not yet back to old self

 

 

Thanks for asking 

[LeVana]

thanks for answering ;-)

be proud of what you have achieved! hold on

LV

[looneytune]

A month and a day off 

 

Yeah LV, I should be proud and well pleased.

 

Still a bit numb from this experiMENTAL medication journey over the last two years or so with anti depressants

 

They work for some folk but they are not for me....just feeling my way again and finding my feet

 

I am not religious but I am, and always have been a spiritual person ,with a belief in God or supreme being and this Easter

has been important and illuminating to me. My dear sister is gravely ill in hospital and I made a 5 hour round trip to visit her yesterday. The first I have seen her in two years since my move to new lands

 

I Never had a bite to eat the whole day and tension headache was extreme. I thought I was prepared for how my sister would look in hospital but it still took me by surprise

People were talking to me throughout the day and their mouths were moving but the sounds of their voices never registered with me....surreal like a bad B horror movie

 

Yesterday was the ultimate med free day and stress and tension were brutal but I passed the test. My sister is 67 and has the courage of a lion and is neither down or broken

 

She is in a Catch 22 situation of being too weak/underweight for operation and the experts, at this point, are unable to successfully feed her to help build her up for operation but she does not complain. Remarkable and I love her so. I have hope though and I have some faith too

 

I managed not to show my shock at how she looked and I managed to stay composed all the way through the visit but at the end of visit as I readied myself for leaving it all became too much for me as I realised this moment may have been my farewell to my dear sister and I momentarily filled up as I said my goodbyes

 

Still, it is Easter and there is hope for us all

 

Love to everyone

 

John

 

xx

[fishinghat]

"People were talking to me throughout the day and their mouths were moving but the sounds of their voices never registered with me....surreal like a bad B horror movie"

 

Been there and experienced that.

 

John, my heart sympathizes with you. I lost my brother a few years ago to slow progressing cancer. Har to deal with, especially when dealing with these psych meds. A horrible experience and I still miss him very much. He will always be in my heart.

 

God bless

[invalidusername]

Hey John,

 

I am really sorry to hear about the issues that your sister is currently facing and your courage to do such a massive roadtrip to see her! That is truly something to be massively proud of given what you have been through. I sure as hell couldn't have done that a month into my withdrawal, but you can look at the moments and see exactly what you can achieve.

 

It sounds like you hit some kind of derealisation, which given the levels of stress you were hitting, is quite normal. It is our bodies way of coping. It simply cannot take any more and starts to shut stuff down and the result is you feeling like you are in some sort of computer game. Your whole world becomes devoid of reality. But again, you did what you had to and obviously wanted to. 

 

I sincerely hope that things progress for the better - my thoughts are with you..

 

IUN

[looneytune]

Thanks Guys & Gals

 

IUN

 

Y'all think I could still be in the midst of some DUL30 withdraws? I still feel from time to time the hopelessness and anxiety just as fresh as in the middle of WD,the same kinda feeling but perhaps not so intense....sometime I think I am not free yet but others would say..." I came off the tabs with no problem,it's all in your imagination!, you are just looking for excuses for your inability to cope with life"

 

Yes,it's true folks...some folk do thing prolonged WD is just a lark

[invalidusername]

I am not free yet but others would say..." I came off the tabs with no problem,it's all in your imagination!, you are just looking for excuses for your inability to cope with life"

 

Exactly what LV is going through in the clutches of the German medical community.

 

It is pure ignorance.

[invalidusername]

Hi guys... just been sent this by AJ, and it is so moving - the lyrics are amazing (below video).

 

It was written by the artist about dealing with really bad health anxiety...

 

 

Danny says he'll die next week
I said, "Are you sure? Are you planning on it?"
He said "No", but as we speak
He can feel his end time coming on and

 

He thinks he caught a rare disease
I said, "Did you know? Did the doctors prove it?"
He said "No", but as we speak
He can feel a strange death start to move in

 

Danny's mind is good 'til it gets real bad
Skipping through the logic and the basic facts
Danny's just a man whose thoughts fight back
So I said

 

Danny, look me in the eyes
You still have a pulse, and your body's breathing
All your blood is trapped inside
When you go to sleep, your heart still beatin'

 

Danny you have done your time
With fear of losing what you lack control of
If worry cannot fix your life
Then try and lift your head above the hold-ups

 

Danny's mind is good 'til it gets real bad
Skipping through the logic and the basic facts
Danny's just a man whose thoughts fight back
So I said

 

Danny, you are still just fine
Danny, you will be alright
Danny, you are breathin'
Danny, you are breathin'

 

Danny, you are still just fine
Danny, you will be alright
Danny, you are breathin'
Danny, you are breathin'

[looneytune]

IUN

 

Whaddya think...I am frantic with worry and nerves and thoughts over my health....I worry that I have not recovered from a bad chest and head infection early DEC.......

 

I worry that what I am going through just now is ME and my OTT worry and nothing at all to do with two WD's in the past few months

my Mental health pattern is fine (normal even) for a spell and then the shit hits the fan and I can't even get up.....is this REGULAR anxiety and depression works or could I put it down to the meds I withdrew and stopped and perhaps my constant cold head/nose/throat worry and sister too?

 

I am having a fucking miserable time and see no future at all

[LeVana]

looney, you could be sure, it's WD at its best...with waves and windows. i feel different every day. can't plan anything.

LV

[fishinghat]

"could I put it down to the meds I withdrew and stopped"
 

Once again LeVana has it right. So classic a symptom for sure. 

[looneytune]

All through the last few months of taper I felt better then than I do now and it can't be because the small amount of Anti Depressant  DUL30 during last few months were having a calming effect! No

 

So, since finally breaking free I've been anxious and gloomy for many a day since.....way more ratio of bad days to good days now that I am 5 weeks or so free compared to good days/bad days when tapering, even in the final wee small stages of taper. This WD malarky just keeps GIVING

 

Jeez ^ reading that back I hope it make sense

 

PS I have an odd thing to talk about up next.....breathing.....back in a mo

[LeVana]

hi looney,

and this is quite normal, too. after the last dose, the real WD is starting. i reduced from 30 to 20 in 2018. no comparison to my situation now. feels much worse!! i only have bad days since quitting. it will improve faster for you (i did cold turkey)

please hold on.

LV

[looneytune]

xxx

[looneytune]

have I asked this one B4?

 

I know the DUL30 caps are special caps so as not to break down too early in system and to protect the caps themselves from our stomach acid

 

but......when tapering and using ORDINARY gelatine caps is there any danger or chance of mishap to our bodies from the DULOXETINE ingredients in our stomach or bowel?

 

 

I ask because I did the whole tapering business in ordinary gelatine caps and often wonder if my GERD like symptoms I acquired around that time are directly from my capsule taper misuse

 

HAT & IUN hope you are in a good place...you too LV

 

xxx

[LeVana]

as i know, the dulox pellets themselves are enteric- coated.
but it's possible that there is a difference in bioavailability using gelatin capsules instead of original capsules.

[looneytune]

I think my breathing has been affected by either low moods or DUL30 or both

 

When I AM IN THE MOOD and do yoga meditation breathing at night just before bed it is great and I can mange to lower breathing to IN/HOLD/OUT over 30 seconds...on a good night.

I love when I manage to reduce breathing to an almost standstill and breaths are so looooong and slow and peaceful but.....

 

when I am lowly or down and in real need of some relaxing Yoga breaths I just for the life of me can't mange the motivation to get into it and I am convinced it's not just a mood/mental thing there is some physical aspects to it too. When I am anxious my normal breath can be fast,too fast, and some times nearly stopped or holding breath.

 

Even when doing exercises I have to remind myself to put more effort into the breath....they talk about "air hunger" over on Benzobuddies a LOT and say we may just forget how to breath or lose our motor reactions of the physical act of breathing due to the anti meds like Diazepam and perhaps DUL30 too?

 

I think the breath is key to life. Well of course it is, but slower deliberate meaningful breaths can be really therapeutic and relaxing for folks like us...

 

I sometimes think I have lost my way a little with all sorts of body action and breathing is just one of them. When I need the YOGA relaxing breath most of all in times of anxiety I just for the life of me cannot summon up the will or slow that shit down!!!

[looneytune]

Jeanne51 mentions "Air Hunger"

 

https://connect.mayo...ithdrawal/?pg=2

[fishinghat]

"I ask because I did the whole tapering business in ordinary gelatine caps and often wonder if my GERD like symptoms I acquired around that time are directly from my capsule taper misuse"

 

Absolutely.

 

There is a section in the ebook on breathing exercises to reduce stress as well. During periods of excessive stress we have a tendency to breath too shallow and too fast. This leads to build-up of carbon dioxide in the blood which leads to a condition called respiratory acidosis which continues the cycle of carbon dioxide build-up and shallow breathing. There is details on this in the ebook.

[invalidusername]

as i know, the dulox pellets themselves are enteric- coated.
but it's possible that there is a difference in bioavailability using gelatin capsules instead of original capsules.

 

Yes, we have been through this SO many times here on the forum. It is far better to err on the side of safety in using the enteric caps. GERD symptoms will not affect it as this is acid above the stomach and the capsule will go directly past all the acid produced by the GERD itself.

 

Mindfulness breathing is fantastic and there have even been a lot of studies gone into these sort of practises - especially the 4-7-8 breathing technique which I use a lot of the time. 

 

Good link about air hunger too... 

 

It is great how people chose to describe these feelings. 

 

What with LV, Looney, AJ and myself have going on, Hat is the only one with his head above water!! Well done my Texan brother! We'll all be there soon

 

IUN

[fishinghat]

Texan? Oh, IUN you are having a hard life aren't you? I am from Missouri!!  Not that there is a lot of difference.  lol

[looneytune]

Aye, Mr hat amongst us all is doing GREAT!.......... but his country is up Shit Creek without a paddle

 

 

[looneytune]

I am struggly to find the section on breathing in the Ebook.....any help?

[fishinghat]

Deep breathing, sighs, yawns....

 

These activities cause an increase in the release of dopamine, endorphons and serotonin. This fact has been used by psychologists for decades to help control anxiety, depression and sleep. By causing yourself to yawn several time over a 10 or 15 minute period it will release enough of these neurotransmitters to help relax and induce sleep. Sighs work much in the same fashion bugt to a lesser degree, Breathing exercises are the most effective. A good psychologist should be used to teach the most effective techniques.

https://www.ncbi.nlm.../pubmed/9551709

 

Member comments and tips -

deep breathes, breath(ing) - 22 comments all positive

 

Raven - Breathe it deep calming breaths and hold them for about 5 seconds before slowly letting them out.

 

Gail - you need to breathe, yes breathe in and out slowly.

 

FH - Deep breathing. Close your eyes—and try taking deep, slow breaths— making each breath even deeper than the last. If you have a psychologist who could teach you relaxation techniques, controlled breathing and heart rate, etc. These techniques really do work.

 

Raven - Just do you best to stay calm and use breathing techniques. My husband and FH have given me great tips on breathing when anxiety strikes. FH because he is a veteran and my husband because he has asthma. 

Keys to breathing:

** Take slow deep breaths (breath in deeply and slowly)

** Hold for at least 15 secs if you can

** Exhale slowly

***repeat as needed*

 

FN - What helped me the most with this was yoga ...the breathing exercises ... once learned, they can be done anywhere, anytime .... the release of the built up anxiety in my body was tremendous ... 

 

Janson - . i've learned a few breathing exercises via yoga and that helps immensely to calm down those nerves that are about to snap. even without knowledge of specific breathing exercises, just take deep full breaths with hands on your stomach and see your tummy rise on the breath in and then fully breath out. so simple, so effective.

 

Lutzy - Another thing I want to mention that has been really helpful for me is the Wim Hof breathing methods. When I'm really feeling bad I will do 1-2 cycles of the breathing techniques and it usually helps a lot. 

https://video.search...70&action=click

 

Note - There must have been well over 100 members that had posts similar to the one below. Shortness of breath, heart pounding, skip beats, tightness in the chest or chest pain. hese are classic anxiety symptoms and are the result of elevated adrenalin e levels. Adrenaline is a vasoconstrictor and bronchiole constrictor. These shallow rapid breaths allow CO2 to build in the lungs and worsens the symotoms. Alpha-agonists (eg. clonidine) and beta blockers (atenolol) work well t o block the effets of this excess adrenaline. Breathing exercises also help considerably in breaking this Cycle. As you can see below ZA got it really right.

 

Snap87 - Just scared with the shortness of breath and heart palpitations more than anything. 

 

ZA - the 'out of breath' symptom is actually shallow breathing and I had that for about 2days it is very exhausting as it causes your ozygen saturation to drop. what worked for me 'was awareness -slow deep breathing -then a little aerobics. it helped to up my b/p and neuteralize by blood gases.

 

Frog - This article was interesting: https://www.healthli...-breath-anxiety

It shows how to practice diaphragmatic breathing which is a more efficient way of breathing. It also says breathing in and out through your nose is less likely to cause shortness of breath/hyperventilation

frog - Posted 11 March 2021 - 12:53 PM

 

Here are the instructions I got from my PT:

 

Position: Lie face up on the floor (I use my bed) with knees bent. Put a hand on your lower belly (elbow touching the floor/bed) and the other hand on your upper chest (elbow touching the floor/bed). This is just to help monitor that you're breathing with your belly and not your chest.

 

Method: Breathe in through your nose and fill your lower lungs with air. This causes your abdomen to rise as if blowing up a balloon. Let the tummy rise forward, out to the sides, lower back rounds, and the pelvic floor relaxes. 

 

Breathe out of your mouth or nose letting air "fall out." Let your abdomen and lower ribcage begin to fall with your breath. As you breathe and let belly/pelvis/back expand, count your breath in and out making it as long as possible but even (same count in as out). Wait until you feel the need to take another breath naturally, don't rush. But the amount of time between breaths isn't that critical. 

 

Continue this rhythm of breathing in through the nose and out through the mouth, making sure that the only motion that occurs during the breathing is in the lower ribs and abdomen (not in the chest).

 

I find that after a few minutes of doing it the counts become longer and everything feels more even and slower, more relaxed. My chest feels less tight. There's definitely still some tightness in my upper body but I was expecting it to take at least a week or two of sustained breathing practice to see continued relaxation of all the muscle. 

 

-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Respiratory acidosis 

 

Respiratory acidosis develops when air inhaled into and exhaled from the lungs does not get adequately exchanged between the carbon dioxide from the body for oxygen from the air. During periods of high stress people often hyperventilate. This hyperventilation is a fast respiratory rate but shallow. This leads to high CO2 levels especially in the lower parts of the lungs. These high CO2 levels cause a concurrent high CO2 levels in the blood which converts to carbonic acid and low blood pH. Blood with a low pH does not carry oxygen as well and results in a condition called hypercapnia. 

 

The narrow pH range for normal function is between 7.35 and 7.45. 

 

Acidemia, which is highly acidic blood, occurs when pH of the blood is lower than 7.35. 

 

Respiratory acidosis occurs when breathing out does not get rid of enough CO2. The increased CO2 that remains results in an acidic state. 

 

Doctors refer to the increased CO2 level in the bloodstream occurring as a result of respiratory acidosis as hypercapnia. 

 

Symptoms can include: 

⦁ headaches 

⦁ memory loss 

⦁ sleep disturbance 

⦁ anxiety and personality changes 

⦁ confusion 

⦁ drowsiness 

⦁ stupor 

⦁ muscle jerking 

⦁ reduced heart muscle function 

⦁ disturbances in heart rhythm, producing arrhythmias 

⦁ a drop in blood pressure 

 

A person can prevent the onset of respiratory acidosis by maintaining healthy lung function (eg. breathing exercises) 

 

Excerpts from ... 

Chronic Adrenergic State 

(Anxiety) 

Conditions Associated with a Chronic Adrenergic State 

Addresses the breathing difficulties associated with an adrenergic state. 

Hyperventilation Syndrome 

Symptoms 

Dizziness, Lightheaded, Headaches, Presyncope or Syncope (fainting) 

Shortness of Breath, Sighing and Yawning, Dyspnea (difficult or labored breathing) 

Hypocapnia (low CO2 in blood), Respiratory Alkalosis (shift to high pH in the 

Blood due to increased respiration) 

 

Respiratory – The hyperadrenergic state usually produces hyperventilation (an increase in frequency and depth of respiration) in order to supply oxygen for the increase in metabolism. In the chronic adrenergic state the increase in respiration eventually causes hypocapnia (decreased CO2 in the blood stream). This decrease in CO2 levels cause alkalosis (elevated pH) of the blood and respiratory system. At an elevated pH the hemoglobin increases its affinity for oxygen (the Bohr Effect). This causes an increase in the hyperventilation if physical activity continues, thereby continuing or worsening the hypocapnia. Once severe hypocapnia occurs it can be maintained by even normal breathing. Those with a chronic adrenergic state often show this breathing pattern. The increase in hemoglobin affinity to oxygen decreases the amount of oxygen available to the cells and increases muscle fatigue and cerebral perfusion. This helps account for the diagnosis of chronic fatigue syndrome and exercise intolerance in the chronic adrenergic state. The hypocapnia rapidly causes the development of hypophosphatemia (low phosphate in the blood) that further reduces oxygen availability to tissues. Once a hypocapnia state is generated the stresses of everyday life may create the potential for a self-perpetuating cycle. 

 

Acute adrenergic state may cause hypercapnia (respiratory acidosis). In this condition the elevated CO2 in the blood competes with oxygen producing similar effects as hypocapnia. 

 

Patients in a hypocapnia or hypercapnia situation can often correct their blood pH balance by doing breathing exercises. The key parts are.. 

 

Three deep breaths focused on the lower part of the lungs, if done properly the belly should extend out during these deep breaths. 

Each deep breath is taken fairly slowly and deep followed by a 1 to 2 second pause and slowly exhaled. 

After the three deep breaths are done then normal breathing is resumed. 

This may be done as many time a day as necessary as long as sufficient times (s few minutes) are given after each set of deep breaths. 

 

Caution - Due to the bloods poor oxygen carrying ability heavy exercising should be avoided. During heavy exercise the body will run low on oxygen easily and increased adrenaline will be released further aggravating the condition.

 

Symptoms of Respiratory Acidosis

Symptoms may include:

Confusion

Anxiety

Easy fatigue

Lethargy

Shortness of breath

Sleepiness

Tremors (shaking)

Warm and flushed skin

Sweating

 ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

[looneytune]

Wow....much ta my American fiend. Thank you

 

xx Man Hugs

[looneytune]

Hmmm, a confession

 

During the past months of DUL30 taper I had around 12 or so tabs of Mirtazapine in the house....I love these but they don't help my COPD so I tend to stay well clear

 

During the manic nights of DUL WD ( most of these nights I managed well) but on some horror nights, when I could stand it no more, I would take HALF a Mirtazapine tab and it would re set my moods and fears but I ran out of tabs and have decided that they were acting as a prop and only a matter of time until they too became another medication problem....like the Diazepam habit I had due to problems with the Anti depressants ( if y'all have been following this shit you will know what I be talkin' about)

 

Recap, when the taper and especially when I stopped the DUL30 became too much I had a little mirtazapine and now I am not having any more I wonder if my recent trouble of gloom and anxiety are because of the absence of any more  Mirtazapine and I have in reality been not facing the problems and masking it/easing the pain of WD with Mirtazapine IDK

 

Yet I read that folk do use other drugs to help with WD but I feel in my heart that I have been "postponing" the worse of WD's by masking the pain with wee Mirtazapine. I have these past weeks been going through all the post taper and stop on my own with no crutch at all ( I don't drink) 

 

thoughts?

[fishinghat]

What dosage and how often were you taking the Mirtazapine?