31 replies to this topic

[xchic22]

Wow, I am so dizzy and "out of it" that it took me 5 attempts at passing the application tests to join this forum.  

 

I have taken Cymbalta since 2006 and would like to stop taking all meds, all together.  I stopped taking the Cymbalta 8 days ago and have done really well up to today.  I am so dizzy and it's really difficult to function in every capacity.  

 

I had very little side effect the first week and it may be because I was also taking tramadol.  I took my last Tramadol day before yesterday, could this be why I am feeling the Cymbalta withdrawal today.

 

Whatever is going on, it is NOT fun and I can not function.  Should I hang in there and continue not to take Cymbalta or should I do this "bead count" technique I have read here.  Help.

 

X

[equuswoman]

Wow, I am so dizzy and "out of it" that it took me 5 attempts at passing the application tests to join this forum.  

 

I have taken Cymbalta since 2006 and would like to stop taking all meds, all together.  I stopped taking the Cymbalta 8 days ago and have done really well up to today.  I am so dizzy and it's really difficult to function in every capacity.  

 

I had very little side effect the first week and it may be because I was also taking tramadol.  I took my last Tramadol day before yesterday, could this be why I am feeling the Cymbalta withdrawal today.

 

Whatever is going on, it is NOT fun and I can not function.  Should I hang in there and continue not to take Cymbalta or should I do this "bead count" technique I have read here.  Help.

 

X

Hi and welcome to the forum. Sounds like you are quitting cold turkey that is a tuff way to get off this drug.

I had to gradually wean myself off this poison by using the bead counting method. You will find instructions in the list of topics on how to do this. However some members here have quite CT and they can share their experiences with you about this if you'd like.

Glad that you found us and please let us know how you're doing.

Much love, support & prayers,

TheEquusWoman

[TryinginFL]

Welcome xchick22.....  we're so happy that you have joined us!  Sorry it took so many tries to get here , but you will be happy that you did!

 

I am just starting my 11th week cold turkey from this poison and the first 4 or 5 weeks were the trip to hell.  I also kept taking my Xanax which helped tremendously,.  I also stopped taking Lyrica at the same time.   I was on both meds for about 4 1/2 yrs and unfortunately did not know about the bead counting method for the Cymbalta (crapalta, as it is known here) until I was already into the cold turkey for 2 weeks.  I decided to continue what I had started but do not recommend it!  Bead counting would be the way to go and others will chime in here (fishinghat, as well as others who have used that).  Please try to be as kind to yourself as you can.  I think that perhaps coming off the Tramadol at the same time is a bit much.  I am still taking the Xanax and also Hydrocodone for anxiety, arthritis and fibromyalgia.  I don't think I would be where I am today if I had tried to eliminate all at the same time. 

 

I now have many good days with a few bad ones thrown in for good measure, but the first 2 weeks I felt as if my head would explode.  I would wake up crying because it hurt so much.  Please feel free to share all of your symptoms and just come on here to vent if you need to!  We all have, trust me.

 

I will give way to others now as you will receive some wonderful information from members who are more knowledgeable than I.  Just know that we are all here - real people who have gone through this hell as well.

 

Hugs,

Liz    

[K8EQ]

I'm so happy I stumbled across this site. I was searching "how long do cymbalta withdrawals last?".....and I happened upon this. It makes me feel 'better' knowing that I'm not losing my mind, and that most of the things I'm experiencing......are being experienced by others too.

 

I haven't really read about anyone suffering from severe joint pain.......MY KNEES are killing me. They are swollen, hurt almost nonstop, and even make it difficult to walk.

 

I've been on Cymbalta for 6 years now.....for depression/nerve pain from chronic pain caused from lumbar and cervical spine injuries. I started on 60 mg........and about 3 years ago my doctor upped me to 90mg. Seemed to really help the depression .....so much to the point that I lost a very dear friend to cancer and was unable to cry. Made me realize that I've been drifting through my life for the past 6 years. Eyes wide CLOSED!!!

 

I have also been on opiates and muscle relaxers (Vicodin 10/325 and Soma 350) for 15 years. Last year (2013) on November 6th, I took my last vicodins and somas and did the cold turkey withdrawals from them. It wasn't fun, but something I knew I had to do if I wanted to continue to live. I went through all the dramatic "junkie" withdrawals........but after about 2 months I started to feel better. And now, 4 months later I KNOW I will NEVER take either of those drugs again.....and any other drug that is as addictive

 

Now I have started my 'journey' of withdrawal from Cymbalta. Being that I was taking 90 mg, I was getting a 30mg and a 60mg prescription every month. My first month I only took my 60mgs and everything seemed okay. Maybe a little spaced feeling, but nothing alarming.  Month two....which is where I am now, for the first 3 weeks I was taking 30mgs......and now this week I'm doing the counting and taking 15mg. This is when my knees started hurting. Just wondering if anyone else has experienced the painful joints???  With the brain "boinking" and the feeling like I'm lost in space and the pain in my knees and the snot bubble crying jags.....guess I'm making up for all the times I should have cried and was unable... I'm thinking of just foregoing the 15mgs and cold turkey the rest of the way.  For those of you out there..........there IS light at the end of the tunnel isn't there??!!! Will the swelling in my knees EVENTUALLY go away???

So glad I found all of you!

Namaste

[thismoment]

Hi xchick22

 

You brave soul! Cold turkey off Cymbalta is an arduous journey, but it CAN be done.

 

Here is my 1.5 cents (inflation): Don't quit the Tramadol until you are withdrawal-symptom-free from the Cymbalta (perhaps 4 or 5 months)-- the pain (if the Tramadol is for pain) may be too much.

 

2 ways to go-- your present course of cold turkey, or a slow linear taper (no steps) over about 90 days. If you choose to taper off slowly, re-instate on the drug now and get feeling stable- maybe several days or a week, then start reducing. The slow linear taper would require bead-counting, whereby you remove an increasing number of beads each day (consider an additional 1% per day over 100 days). If things get rough, you stop removing beads until you feel stable and then continue.

 

You can do this. Welcome; there is a lot of great information on this forum (review the histories), and many wonderfully compassionate people.

[thismoment]

K8EQ

 

Welcome! Yes, indeed painful joints are part of the story, and it does get better throughout withdrawal.

 

It sounds like you are pretty much quitting cold turkey, which is the effect when you taper off in steep steps like from 90 to 60 to 30, then from 30 to 15 in a week. Bead-counting in a linear taper (no steps) is typically done over a few months, regardless of the dosage.

 

You can ice your knees, elevate them and slow down for a while. Also (I mean no disrespect), our weight greatly affects those joints. 

 

Best wishes!

[xchic22]

Wow, I appreciate the quick response.  For the past year, I have been taking 60mg every other day or so. I take Tramadol PRN for pain.   Last week I did not have any withdrawal symptoms and today it hit me like a Mack Truck.  I have to be back to work on Thursday and there is NO way I can work feeling like I do.    I'm stuck.  Should I wait and see if I feel improvement tomorrow or should I take a Cymbalta now and plan on the beading program a few weeks from now.  I'm already a week and a day into this. . . . just now sure what tomorrow will bring.  I can't ask you to answer this for me. . ."what should I do". . . . but "knowing what you know today about Cymbalta withdrawal, what would you do if you were in my shoes? . . .

 

I am SO dizzy!  Just moving my eyes sets it off.

[fishinghat]

welcome xchic 22. Like some of the others before me said. Back up, go back on the tramadol. Handle one withdrawal at a time. For sure bead counting is the best way for Cymbalta.

 

Bead counting, is where you open the cymbalta capsule each day and remove a few beads, usually 2 or 3. So the first day you remove 3 beads, the next day 6 beads, the next 9 beads etc. This provides for a slow steady withdrawal. If symptoms get to bad you just hold at that dosage for a while until you stabilize. Then start dropping again. Be aware that for most the last few beads give the worse withdrawal. Be prepared to slow down when you get to the very end. Now this is just an example. Some can only remove 1 bead a day and others 7 or 8 beads a day. You will have to play with it a little bit to find what works for you. This doesn't mean you won't have withdrawal but it will be lighter and you will have some control over it.

 

DURATION OF WITHDRAWAL

The first 3 or 4 weeks of withdrawal are the worse with some slow, and I mean slow improvements. By the 8th to 12th week usually see signs of good days followed by bad days but at least there is light at the end of the tunnel. Now that is the average. I have known people who actually quit cold turkey without a symptom. And others where the withdrawal last 6 months to over a year but these are rare. Research says between 30 to 80% of people do not experience withdrawal while other research shows that around 7% experience withdrawal of 6 months or more.

.

[thismoment]

xchic22

 

". . . what would you do if you were in my shoes?"  I'd stay on the Tramadol until I was completely withdrawn and stable off the Cymbalta. I would re-instate back on the Cymbalta today, get stable and plan to withdraw slowly by the bead-counting method over 90 days. Allow another 90 days and re-visit the Tramadol question.

 

Take care.

[Jones]

I want to add something that May or may not be of help to someone.
I started my withdrawal in January of 2013. I went to hell like everyone else and half way back. I was put on 300 mgs of Wellbutrin and started seeing a therapist.
Last week I asked my doctor was there anything to add to this big dose to make me feel more "human" and function better. He told me about a prescription vitamin that was available. It is called Deplin. I have looked for side effects and not found any. I thought I had heard of and been on most antidepressants available. After four days on this pill I actually heard myself laughing. I didn't even know I had not laughed in many months. My home situation is very sad and stressful.
I'm throwing this out there just in case it could help anyone else who hasn't heard of it. I am truly amazed and hopeful now.

[Wagtail]

I want to add something that May or may not be of help to someone.
I started my withdrawal in January of 2013. I went to hell like everyone else and half way back. I was put on 300 mgs of Wellbutrin and started seeing a therapist.
Last week I asked my doctor was there anything to add to this big dose to make me feel more "human" and function better. He told me about a prescription vitamin that was available. It is called Deplin. I have looked for side effects and not found any. I thought I had heard of and been on most antidepressants available. After four days on this pill I actually heard myself laughing. I didn't even know I had not laughed in many months. My home situation is very sad and stressful.
I'm throwing this out there just in case it could help anyone else who hasn't heard of it. I am truly amazed and hopeful now.

Jones, Deplin sounds like a miracle .. I wonder if it's available in Australia !.
No side effects sounds to good to be true, do you know if it's addictive ?, & if so I personally would be worried about withdrawal .
I'm hoping the more experienced members like fishinghat, Fivenotions or Thismoment are familiar with it .
I will do some googling & see what I can find out.
Thanks for the heads up Jones... I could sure do with something to make me happy , I'm feeling quite depressed & close to tears the last few days .. :-)

[fishinghat]

Deplin, also called Levomefolic acid, is a manmade form of folic acid.  There has been 5 mentions of it on this forum and some have noted some success with it. More to follow.

[fishinghat]

I am not familiar with this product but these documents are indication it is useful in the treatment of depression. I also noticed there is a heck of a court fight between 6 or 7 companies over the patent.

 

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Deplin

 

http://www.ncbi.nlm....pubmed/21247282

 

http://www.ncbi.nlm....pubmed/20407417

 

http://www.ncbi.nlm....les/PMC3869616/

Full document

[fishinghat]

Oh yea. One reason you can't find any real side effects of this drug is that it has not been tested!!

 

FDA has received two reports from people taking Deplin that it may alter blood sugar readings.

[FiveNotions]

I'm checking.....needless to say, I'm a tad suspicious.... Deplin is the brand name for the "medical food supplement" l/methylfolate ....

So, the first question is, are you getting enough folate naturally via the foods you eat.... That is, are you getting enough frolic acid, from which the body makes folate....and if you are getting enough frolic acid, could it be that your body has a problem turning it into folate....if so, then a medical food supplement might be useful.....

NOTE/ edit: in the paragraph above, I meant *folic* acid, not *frolic* acid .... Hehhe.... Although lots of "frolic" is probably beneficial as well..... ;-D

http://www.psycholog...d-be-the-answer

L-Methylfolate (Deplin®): A medical food for depression?
https://mospace.libr...ndle/10355/7342

Abstract: Limited evidence (from before the adoption of widespread dietary supplementation of folate) suggested that folate might be beneficial in depression by augmenting the effects of antidepressants. However, no direct evidence suggests that the medical food supplement L-methylfolate (Deplin®) is the most effective form of supplementation. It is also unclear whether patients must be deficient in folate to receive benefit or whether this prescription supplement has significant clinical application in an era of widespread vitamin fortification of foods.

Edited by FiveNotions, 01 April 2014 - 12:03 PM.

[TryinginFL]

Good morning Wagtail...  I'm sorry to hear of the way that you're feeling.  I certainly understand - I am now in my 11th week of this trip to hell and having mostly good days, but still plagued by lethargy.  I never get anything done, it seems.  Yesterday was another one of those "teary" days and was feeling pretty down.  Apparently this is normal   I just wonder if and when it will stop entirely.  Well - here we are - one day at a time is the best we can do.

I hope that you are feeling better soon and perhaps you can find this new Deplin down under.  I need to read up more on it...  Sounds good so far.

I hope you have a better time today and remember to not be so hard on yourself - you need to rest and let your body tell you what you are able to do

Hugs and Prayers,

Liz

[FiveNotions]

I just went to the CafePharma.com message boards for drug co.reps..... They have little good to say about the stuff... They do say it hasn't been tested sufficiently and that if anything, it's a placebo....

Remember friends, there is no such thing as a "magic pill".... And if there were, the drug cos. wouldn't offer it, because it'd cure us and put them out of business.....

Here's a thread from CafePharma .....these are comments from drug reps themselves......

------------------
09-09-2011, 08:07 PM

Posts:
need help on understanding Deplin
I am a veteran of the industry. Retired 9 years ago after 35 years with Marion and Marion Merell Dow.

My wife's psych aded Deplin to her routine.

Have looked at all the posts here and feel like it is snake oil: used all the samples and went to get the script filled 120 dollars and no coverage by Medco.

The studies are somewhat suspect, with lots of possibly's. maybe's and probably's. What is the real story. Thanks for al your help and god selling!

#2
Re: need help on understanding Deplin
Vetaran of the industry-

I have a few questions for you. Did the Psych explain how and why Deplin was being written? What other actions have the physicians tried? Have you visited the Deplin website? I have experience in promoting Deplin and can relate to your outcome, seeing that some Psychs have told of the same results. I would suggest asking how and why Deplin is a safe augmentation to enhancing how anti-depressants work in a placebo safe arena. Please let me know if you have any other questions or concerns.

#3
09-13-2011, 10:45 PM
Re: need help on understanding Deplin

Deplin = Placebo
-----------

[fishinghat]

FN, you hit it on the head. Most of the comments I found on forums (present one excluded) was it is ok. No real excitement. If you look at the beginniing of the wiki article it says.... "Another 40% of the population (heterozygous CT) appear to convert only a limited amount of folic acid into levomefolic acid. They cannot fully process supplemental folic acid at RDA or higher dose levels.^{[citation needed]} The remaining population do not have a known MTHFR polymorphism and can therefore metabolize folic acid more efficiently." I think this is the real justification. They are saying even if these people have enough folic acid they can not process it.    HMMM,  40%. I wonder.

[FiveNotions]

Also found this article...shoots holes in most of the hype.... The journal is for psychiatrists....bottom line, tests so far show the placebo works as well as the deplin....and there's no strong indication that the deplin does anything more than a healthy diet, with sufficient frolic acid, does.....

Deplin: Is it Just Folate by Another Name?

http://www.thecarlat...me-free-article

From the article:

Patients are probably asking you about Deplin, or L-methylfolate, a version of folic acid that is being marketed by Pamlab as an adjunctive treatment for depression. In a prior issue of TCPR (June 2009) we reviewed available information on Deplin, concluding that there’s little evidence it is any more helpful for depression than much cheaper folic acid. Have we learned anything new in the last two years?
...

The promotional literature for Deplin, as well as several articles published over the last few years (many underwritten by Pamlab), imply that L-methylfolate is essential for BH4 synthesis, and that it is the only form of folate that can cross the blood-brain barrier. However, neither of these propositions is entirely true.
...
But is any of this even relevant for neurotransmitter synthesis? Probably not, since it’s well known that the CSF folate level stays at a relatively constant concentration across wide variations in the serum folate (and, presumably, L-methylfolate) level (Obeid et al, Clin Chem 2007 53(2):326–333). So for the vast majority of our patients—except for those eating a folate-free diet for four months, perhaps—there’s probably sufficient folate in the brain for monoamine synthesis, regardless of serum folate status.
. . .
In the first study, 148 patients with SSRI-resistant depression were randomized to one of three groups. In each group, patients continued their SSRIs and used Deplin or placebo as an adjunct: 1. Deplin 7.5 mg/d for 30 days, then 15 mg/d for 30 days; 2. placebo for 30 days, then Deplin 7.5 mg/day for 30 days; or 3. placebo for 60 days.

There was no statistically significant difference in outcomes among any of the three groups.

Thus, we have one positive study, and one larger negative study. Neither study compared Deplin with generic folic acid—and such a study is unlikely to be done (presumably because Pamlab is concerned that folic acid would be equivalent to Deplin).
...

[fishinghat]

MTHFR is Methylenetetrahydrofolate reductase and is responsible for the use of folic acid.  Basically they are saying 40% of the population does not have enough of this enzyme to process folic acid and produce their own Levomefolic acid. I am suspicious. That is a high %.

 

I just read FN's information and will note one difference between what he found and I. The medical research article I could get a full copy off showed a mark improvement in depression. I am trying to run down the other two articles.

[FiveNotions]

However, what's most important here is that we are NOT in any way trying to negate what Jones has suggested or is experiencing from using deplin! ! !

If it helps, that's wonderful! And a big thank you to Jones for the information.....

My concern is that we must take the responsibility to research for ourselves everything single thing suggested ... before we put it in our body.....we know that big pharma is not on our side....and we've learned the hard way that many of our docs have sold out to big pharma, or are just clueless....so each of us must be our own advocate....

Depression, pain, anxiety...all can make us desperate...desperate to try anything that will "just make it stop" ..... And that is precisely how I, for one, ended up in the mess I got into with cymbalta....

Are we eating a completely healthy diet, to the extent that our bodies can tolerate specific foods? ...are we taking safe, necessary, vitamins and supplements, to the extent that our bodies can process them?....if we have multiple illness and conditions, do we know as much about them as our doctors? do we know how our various medicines interact?

And are we prepared to educate our doctors? Are we prepared to defend ourselves against the med-pharma leviathan ?

All of this is complicated.... And we are responsible for knowing all this.... I've learned the hard way....damned hard..... I am in this alone....there is no one "out there" who is going to "look after me" ......

I apologize for the rant....I just had another go-round with my idiot witch doc and GP the other day.....

[fishinghat]

You are right FN. Jones is probably correct for his situation. It probably did him/her a lot of good and reporting it here is so important. FN and myself will post as much good and/or bad news as we can find on this product so we can all make a wise choice. By the way, just to be cleaar, this is used on depression NOT anxiety.

 

I have managed to scrap up two more articles on the subject.

 

http://www.ncbi.nlm....pubmed/24372461

 

 

http://www.ncbi.nlm....pubmed/23212058

 

CONCLUSIONS Adjunctive l-methylfolate at 15 mg/day may constitute an effective, safe, and relatively well tolerated treatment strategy for patients with major depressive disorder who have a partial response or no response to SSRIs.

 

[fishinghat]

Hey FN. That article you found from the psychiatrist was a real good one. I have read the abstracts from those research articles I found and I gues the bottom line is if you can't take an ssri/snri for depression then the Deplin will help. One indicated that for an augment it works as well as any. I think this all flows back to the fct this helps people who does not have enough enzymes to process folic acid. They say 40%....I doubt that because there would be a lot of hypofolic people around and the endocrinologists would be a lot busier!!!

[fishinghat]

I want to add something that May or may not be of help to someone.
I started my withdrawal in January of 2013. I went to hell like everyone else and half way back. I was put on 300 mgs of Wellbutrin and started seeing a therapist.
Last week I asked my doctor was there anything to add to this big dose to make me feel more "human" and function better. He told me about a prescription vitamin that was available. It is called Deplin. I have looked for side effects and not found any. I thought I had heard of and been on most antidepressants available. After four days on this pill I actually heard myself laughing. I didn't even know I had not laughed in many months. My home situation is very sad and stressful.
I'm throwing this out there just in case it could help anyone else who hasn't heard of it. I am truly amazed and hopeful now.

 

Good for you Jones. I am glad it helped. It also brings up a good point for anyone suffering from depression. Make sure your dr checks your folate (flolic acid) levels. It can make a big difference.

[Jones]

I saw that test and I will get one. At a certain point I am unable to do anything helpful for myself.
When I am depressed, I am never reaching for a big bowl of folic acid to eat !
Thank you for all the information.
So far = so good

[xman]

Awe yes, well it seems my regular doc. was on the ball, so to speak, when I asked her if there was anything else she thought might help--that was 4 years ago. She immediately names Deplin, without referring to a handbook or app. I took it for several years. At one point I, on my own, decided it was too expensive and stopped taking it and didn't notice any difference. Perhaps if you are not eating very good it may make a noticeable improvement? I don't know but have been there and done that in the process of due diligence-meaning I was trying anything and everything and believed it would all help.  

 

Since starting the journey thru depression, pain and depression--the circle, I had resisted the urge to Googledoc myself since there is too much information out there to process and I know I cannot be objective. I left it in the hands of my doctor, someone I trust-yet I should have researched the Crapalta (SSNRIs). In all fairness there was not a lot of literature at that time...my excuse.  And those dang lying drug reps...won't go there!

 

Since then I have called the Lilly numbers provided by FiveNotions to report adverse events and also the FDA. Here I am...at least I'm alive!

[Wagtail]

Good morning Wagtail...  I'm sorry to hear of the way that you're feeling.  I certainly understand - I am now in my 11th week of this trip to hell and having mostly good days, but still plagued by lethargy.  I never get anything done, it seems.  Yesterday was another one of those "teary" days and was feeling pretty down.  Apparently this is normal   I just wonder if and when it will stop entirely.  Well - here we are - one day at a time is the best we can do.
I hope that you are feeling better soon and perhaps you can find this new Deplin down under.  I need to read up more on it...  Sounds good so far.
I hope you have a better time today and remember to not be so hard on yourself - you need to rest and let your body tell you what you are able to do
Hugs and Prayers,
Liz

Thank you Liz, I'm still battling fatigue & low mood & I think it is exacerbated by loneliness .
Moving to a new area @ my age has it's drawbacks .
I am looking in to DEPLIN & may try it , if it lifts my low mood then that would be a blessing.
Hugs Gail ..

[equuswoman]

I want to add something that May or may not be of help to someone.
I started my withdrawal in January of 2013. I went to hell like everyone else and half way back. I was put on 300 mgs of Wellbutrin and started seeing a therapist.
Last week I asked my doctor was there anything to add to this big dose to make me feel more "human" and function better. He told me about a prescription vitamin that was available. It is called Deplin. I have looked for side effects and not found any. I thought I had heard of and been on most antidepressants available. After four days on this pill I actually heard myself laughing. I didn't even know I had not laughed in many months. My home situation is very sad and stressful.
I'm throwing this out there just in case it could help anyone else who hasn't heard of it. I am truly amazed and hopeful now.

That's wonderful to hear about your laughter! Prayers for your stressful and sad home situation. TheEquusWoman

[xman]

Sending Wagtail peace and hoping you can find strength to lift you up!

 

Moving is a very difficult process-more so the older we get. I am so sorry you are in the process of doing this.  The place you call home...we are here for you!

[Jones]

Thank you e woman