25 replies to this topic

[Amybc7]

I had been taking Cymbalta (only 20 mg - thank goodness!) since 2009.  It got to the point that I just didn't love it anymore.  It was like a bad breakup.  It wasn't necessarily doing anything wrong, but I just didn't want to be with it any longer.  I've been on medicine of some sort since 2001 so my doctor and I decided to wean off of it and see what we had.  I describe it as "Let's get off the meds and see what kind of crazy we are dealing with!"  (I say this with complete humor...)

 

My doctor has me doing the every other day "weaning" and admits that there is no good way to do it.  I'm on my fourth week of doing this.  Last week my anxiety was sky high and her suggestion was either to wean more or go back to a full dose.  Neither option appealed to me and I just pushed through.  She now wants me to go to every three days of taking a pill - and I admit I am a bit terrified to do this.

 

This hasn't been horrible yet.  Sleeping is awful.  A little bit of nausea.  Mood swings galore.  I can manage it.  

 

It's going to get worse isn't it?  

[air3333]

I personally do not believe you should take the drug every 3 days. This is a serious narcotic labeled as a medication. That is a reintroduction of the toxin every 3 days and could cause other problems. Look for bead counting in some of these forums. Doctors may not even know the best practices for patients because there is no data and information from drug companies and independent studies. Please listen everyone, including people on this forum and your doctor and then make the decision for yourself on what to do. 

 

After you withdrawal completely - You might look like you are in recovery (exuberant) but then depression (from withdrawal) may hit you with a brick. It may get worse, it may not, since you are only on 20 mgs that is good in my opinion. In my experience with Effexor withdrawal (but then treated that condition with cymbalta) I believe it would have taken maybe a year to stabilize with the mood swings. I went from high to low even after the drug left my system. The low point was when I went back to cymbalta. And that was only have taking Effexor after 3-4 years. Nobody, including your doctor, knows the damage what Cymbalta and other drugs do to the mind and body - they see the condition and want to treat with a drug that makes people feel better but causes other dangerous side effects which may interfere with work and life.  

 

I have hope you will get better after the drug has left your system, just as I have hope for everyone. It will take time to recover.

[fishinghat]

Amybc7, welcome. I don't know any way to put this but that your dr (any many others) is a complete idiot. Cymbalta has a half life of 12 hours. If you skip a day by the second day your blood Cymbalta levels have dropped around 90%!! So what do they have you do? Take another pill, jack your Cymbalta levels back up and go through the same withdrawal all over again. Dumb. Most drs don't take this withdrawal seriously because when they are trained by the pharm company they are told it is no be deal. I know that none of the drs I have had was against bead counting. And if they are, so what, it is your health. You have to make the final decision. I would bet that if you explain how you are suffering and how the bead counting works then they won't have a problem with it.

 

Bead counting, is where you open the cymbalta capsule each day and remove a few beads, usually 2 or 3. So the first day you remove 3 beads, the next day 6 beads, the next 9 beads etc. This provides for a slow steady withdrawal. If symptoms get to bad you just hold at that dosage for a while until you stabilize. Then start dropping again. Be aware that for most the last few beads give the worse withdrawal. Be prepared to slow down when you get to the very end. Now this is just an example. Some can only remove 1 bead a day and others 7 or 8 beads a day. You will have to play with it a little bit to find what works for you. This doesn't mean you won't have withdrawal but it will be lighter and you will have some control over it.

[FiveNotions]

Ditto to what Fishinghat and air3333 say!

And welcome to the group!

[thismoment]

Amybc7 and air3333

 

Welcome to both of you!

 

Fishinghat is right. A steady taper, NO STEPS, level off when necessary, stay hydrated, walk a lot, get distracted, and think of discontinuation over a period of months rather than weeks. Don't look back for 6 months!!

[TryinginFL]

Welcome Amybc7 and air3333  and "Ditto" to all of the above!

 

Good luck and please keep us posted!

[Amybc7]

Thank you!  I had read about the counting of the beads and was wondering that.  I'm in that strange place (as I'm sure many of you have been) where I am second guessing everything.  You are taught to trust in the medical community - and suddenly I find myself where an online forum has better information than the people I am paying to care for me.

 

Historically, I'm the person who has a stuffy nose and instantly find six disease on WebMd that I'm certain I have.  I spend so much energy right now wondering if what I experience is real or imagined.  What fishinghat has said makes so much sense!  One day I feel fine - and the next I don't.  I was so sure this was in my head - but it sounds like it coincides with pill days and non-pill days!  

[air3333]

I agree Amybc7. I am taught to trust authority, the government, and others because it is the right thing to do. I don't know if I trust Physicians to tell me that I am depressed and need medication for the rest of my life (60+ years). There is never any discussion of lifestyle factors like excessive media use, sugar intake, exercising and conclude quickly in less than an hour that one needs the drug for the rest of their life. The only person I can trust is myself and what I am feeling. The doctor doesn't live with how you feel every day. 

[Jones]

Curious
Are most people on here of the mindset that NO antidepressants are acceptable ?

[fishinghat]

Not me. When I had my nervous breakdown there was no choice. I had lost it and was laying in the corner of my bedroom and crying. No time for years of therapy. It had its purpose. I just believe that most people don't need them unless they are in such an extreme case as I was. I also think that once on the antidepressant many get comfortable with it even though they have had years of therapy and the original problem is gone or substantially reduced. It is a tool not a solution (except in very rare cases).

[FiveNotions]

I feel as Fishinghat does....i had an extreme breakdown when my marriage broke up....and was put on wellbutrin....it patched me up enough that I was able to get the therapy I needed....the therapy was short- term and the antidepressant should have been, too....but I believed the docs about "for the rest of your life" .....then, I was put on cymbalta a few years later, when the generic wellbutrin caused a psychotic break....again, I should have used the cymbalta short term only, but I believed what I was told ....it was for life...

The irony/sad thing here is that if I'd gotten off the first antidepressant when I should have, the psychotic episode would never have happened...and I'd never have ended up on cymbalta....

So, now that I'm finally off cymbalta, I'm going to give myself a year (or longer) to stabilize, and then I will tackle the wellbutrin withdrawal....

I would love to be able to live the last years of my life free of antidepressants....I'd like to die with a clear mind.... ;-)

[thismoment]

I agree with FH and FN, but I think there needs to be a conversation about the order of treatment- a kind of psycho-triage. Sometimes it's necessary to start with the drug, and sometimes it's not. The system is set up to deliver drugs faster than it can deliver psychotherapy. That first drug to stabilize the patient until psychotherapy begins, hopefully would be something other than a heavyweight like Cymbalta.

[Jones]

Thanks,
I too have had the breakdowns and years of therapy. Was a time when you could only get antidepressants from a physicshiatrist and be in treatment.
I also tried several times to get off all meds because I felt so "well". But that never worked out for me. I doubt I will ever know what my real thinking is unless I get in an ole folks home that won't drug me. I decided years ago to think of them as like insulin to a diabetic. I think there are some permanent problems that can't be addressed without meds. I am however, open to other ways of thinking about this mess.
My husband is now paralyzed and about stage two or so Alzheimer's. I don't think I could even get out of the bed without these drugs.
I have spent many years in the bed just too heavy to move. I absolutely have to be here for him. There may come a day when I could try without, but not anytime soon.
I was sincerely wondering if you all were on No meds.
Thanks for response.

[thismoment]

Hi Jones

 

First off, what a strong, beautiful, and caring person you are! 

 

Medication of any sort from any source is not a moral issue to me. There is no right and wrong, there is only quality of life! I agree that there are some problems that cannot be addressed without meds.

 

I got off the meds because I didn't feel 'well' on them. If you feel well and are enjoying your personal quality of life, don't worry- just take the meds and carry on. Don't give it another thought.

 

I still have a benzodiazepine on the shelf as a hedge against anxiety, but other than taking one of those once in a blue moon, I don't take anything else.

 

I wish you and your husband peace. 

[fishinghat]

I feel like you are one of those where medicine is a solution to a problem. Dealing with your husbands health issues this is certainly not the time to try and come off anti-depressants.

 

I am not medicine prescription med free but I now take about 50% less than when I started. I will continue to try and minimize my usage in the future.

[Amybc7]

I absolutely believe in the power of anti-depressants.  For me .... at a visit my doctor asked me what my symptoms were when I started taking the medication (at that point it was Prozac - which went to Wellbutrin- which went to Effexor - which went to Cymbalta).  I couldn't answer her.  I had reached a point where I assumed the medication was working because I wasn't depressed but it had been so long since I had felt depressed I didn't know.  I had been really looking for that miracle pill that made me happy and full of energy every day.  

 

I may wean off Cymbalta and a year from now realize I need medication.  I'm okay with that.  I need to know within myself that this is something I need - not something I've continued with "just because".

[air3333]

I believe in Anti-depressants as an extreme last resort, not the first resort. 

 

I had never gone to therapy, changed my diet, or was given alternatives before I started on the medications. The risks of the drugs were said to be rare, and that I most likely would not have them. I've had at least 5 side effects from each drug on the FDA label, if not more. 

 

After a decade on these drugs starting at age 15, I realize they have not helped me work better, socialize more effectively, and feel normal. At work, I cannot remember 90% of the work that I did and has harmed my performance. I need my brain to function 100% not at 50%. Sometimes when I am socializing, I have no idea what I am talking about and start making false statements. It impairs judgement similar to alcohol. 

 

I can only remember a few things 10 years ago before I was put on the drugs. I have no idea what it has done to me. 

 

A lot of people have suicidal thoughts, the world that we live in with high sugar and the psychological effects of video games, TV, and other media, any normal person could get disturbed and as a sensitive teenager especially. Somehow that translates into "oh no we must put this person on drugs to pacify his thoughts - there is something wrong with him". Well, I read a lot information and many people have passing thoughts of suicide in their life - job related, work related, debt related. 

 

Maybe if someone actually had a suicide attempt then, likely, they should be put on the drugs. 

 

But this is complicated and sometimes drugs hurt more more than help.

 

As someone who has been on high doses of these drugs for a long time, the drugs have decreased my quality of life - it is that simple. 

[Daybyday]

This forum is amazing! I had no idea some many people were going though the same thing. My doctor thought I was nuts saying I still have all these withdraw symptoms after a month of being off the medication. I was told to go cold turkey and I would be fine in a few weeks which was the case for the other anti-depressants. Also I was experiencing symptoms of withdraw not known to my doctor so I was lead to believe I was developing serious Allergies. But it sounds like it's just the cymbalta after all.

[thismoment]

Daybyday

 

Real emergencies aside, tie yourself to a post (metaphorically speaking, of course) for 6 months before deciding you have other medical issues. 

[Jones]

Thank you for your candid answers.
Spent the morning in prayer.
Spent the afternoon having a hissy fit.
One doctor gave me Zoloft for the crying. I can't function on the wellbutrin 300 and Zoloft.
Day by day you may have company tied to that post.
Thank you for being here.

[fishinghat]

Hi Jones. Zoloft is fine for the withdrawal but it takes 6 to 8 weeks to buildup in the system to full strength. You will still have to go through some rough times before the Zoloft kicks in.

[FiveNotions]

DBD...your doctor is a jackass....you, and the rest of us here, know more about this poison than all the docs combined......what it does to us while on it, how hard it is to get off it, and living a life after it....

[Savia]

I am new to this forum. I have been through hell with my new primary trying to figure out the vague symptoms that have been occurring over the last few months. It all started with the generic prescription of Cymbalta slipped in without warning.  If that wasn't bad enough I was switched back to the the non-generic version. But more and more symptoms kept emerging... as I researched and found most of my symptoms were related to this terrible drug.  I am going to try to get off of this drug...to be truthful after reading some the posts, I am terrified to try to stop this drug.

 

I have been on Cymbalta for 2 years and I take 30 mg daily for nerve pain. I wanted to cut back on the gabapentin but in hindsight I would never have gone on it.  I was never told about what withdrawing might be like.  I am thankful for finding this forum and will begin counting beads tomorrow.  

 

~S

[thismoment]

Savia

Welcome.

Informed Consent from the physician is rarely given to patients who start taking (or withdrawing from) these drugs, so the side effects and withdrawal symptoms come as a surprise to us.

 

It's a little uncomfortable, but you can get through this- don't worry!

I see your plan is to withdraw via bead-counting. Do you have a timeline and tapering schedule in mind? If not, we can help.

Best wishes.

[Savia]

I have not received any phone calls from my physicians today.  I was told by my neurologist not to stop the Cymbalta without a plan... however, as of yet they have not offered me any. My PCP is not in until tomorrow so I have no information from her as well.  I am just afraid the pharmacy will switch me back and the bead-counting will be off.  This is a terrifying thought.  One step at a time. 

[thismoment]

Savia

It would be good if you can get a prescription of the original (Eli Lilly) for your withdrawal- they have more beads.

Here's an example of a tapering-off regimen: Taper off from 30 mg to 0 over a period of 90 days. You will need 45 capsules of 30 mg, 45 empty gel caps (from the pharmacy or health food store), and 45 little envelopes. Let's say (to easily illustrate the math), the 30 mg capsule contains 180 beads- therefore, 180 beads divided by 90 days is 2 beads per day.

Do this:

Day One- take out 2 beads from a 30 mg capsule, reassemble that capsule and swallow it. Put the two beads into an empty gel cap and put that capsule into a little envelope labelled "Day 90".

Day Two- take out 4 beads from a 30 mg capsule, reassemble that capsule and swallow it. Put the 4 beads into an empty gel cap and put that capsule into a little envelope labelled "Day 89".

Day Three- take out 6 beads from a 30 mg capsule . . . and so on. . . envelope labelled "Day 88". All the way to "Day 45", and you're half way done.

If symptoms get rough, stop taking beads out for a few days until you feel stable, then continue removing beads.

Present this plan to your doctor and insist on the Brand Name Cymbalta by Eli Lilly for your withdrawal. Explain the number of beads issue, and I'm sure the physician will help.

You will still have symptoms, and some of them will be challenging, but it's not as rough as cold turkey.

Be prepared to slow down toward the end as symptoms can get stronger at the last few mg. Have a benzodiazepine on hand for anxiety to be taken AS NEEDED.

Take care. We will be here to help you get through this.