42 replies to this topic

[CSC]

Hi everybody.

 

I'm new here. I've been on Cymgen (Cymbalta) for almost Three years. Sad to say that it feels like it mostly ruined that part of life. I was a student at that time, taking it without realizing the impact it had on my life. I wasn't well informed on this drug, so I didn't take it everyday, unaware of the withdrawal symptoms. I would use alcohol, after all I was a student and never realized that the Cymbalta was the reason for all my acting outs. My Doctor never mentioned that it could be dangerous using alcohol with this drug. I blacked out and behaved very strange, doing things that I would NEVER do before I was taking this drug. My behavior did not only put my life at risk, but also the life's of others.  I didn't give it much thought, and just laughed it of as a typical drunk student. I came to a point where I realized that this was getting out of hand. So, I researched this Drug and was shocked when I realized what I was taking might be the reason for all this. I am now in the process of quitting Cymbalta. I stopped cold turkey after taking 30mg for 2 months after 60mg for almost 3 years. It is the worst time I have ever experienced. The withdrawal are awful. I feel sick to my stomach, hots, colds, liver pain ect. But the worst is a extreme feeling of guilt. I am reliving all the bad experiences and can't understand how I could have been that person. Feels like I'm looking at somebody else's life. Having very bad nightmares. Feels like I have been put in somebody else's body for that time period. Can somebody please tell me this will pass?  Will this feeling of guilt,worthlessness and nightmares go away so I can live my life like normal again before I started taking this drug?

 

Thank you all very much.

[FiveNotions]

CBC, welcome! You've found the best place to be while you're getting off the poison and on into recovery and healing!

You can, and will, get through this, and you'll be so happy you did! I'm almost 7 months off ...and life after the crapalta is worth every bit of struggle I went through!

You've got two basic things going on right now, and they're both huge and overwhelming....the physical withdrawal...and the return of your mental clarity and recognition of what was done to you mentally/emotionally/spiritually by the poison.

Deal with one at a time.

The first thing is the physical. The other part needs to be put to the side for a while. You can't work through that while your brain and body are dealing with withdrawal.

You must get stabilized on the cymbalta in order to wean off it slowly and methodically.

How long have you been off it completely? You're in cold turkey withdrawal hell. And we need to get that stopped if at all possible.

If you haven't been off compelled let for too long, I think, subject to what others here suggest, that you need to go back on it and get stabilized. Then start using the bead counting method, which others can teach you. (I went cold turkey, had no choice, would never recommend it to anyone!)

Were you stable on the 30 mg?

Do you currently have a regular doc and a shrink or therapist? If so, do they know you're trying to get off, and how you've been trying to do it?

Do your friends or family know? In other words, do you have a support network?

Let us know this additional info, we'll help you take it from there!

[FiveNotions]

CSC! Sorry...ipad and fat finger syndrome.... ;-)

[thismoment]

CSC

 

I agree with FiveNotions.

 

You were in and out of withdrawal the whole time you were on the drug (miss a day and you're in withdrawal). Also Cymbalta+alcohol= idiot. You found that out (so did many of us). This routine makes for a pretty stressful lifestyle in the already-demanding role of a university student. When you pull through this (and you will), the sky's the limit!

 

If you are in recent cold turkey now, these bad feelings will continue for some time. You need to taper off slowly and start seeing a psychologist. If that means re-instating on the drug until you are stable before weaning off, you might consider that. 

 

"But the worst is a extreme feeling of guilt. I am reliving all the bad experiences and can't understand how I could have been that person. Feels like I'm looking at somebody else's life. Having very bad nightmares. Feels like I have been put in somebody else's body for that time period. Can somebody please tell me this will pass?  Will this feeling of guilt, worthlessness and nightmares go away so I can live my life like normal again before I started taking this drug?"

 

Regarding the guilt- did you plan that series of events or did it happen because you weren't properly briefed about the medication? Was it your intent to put yourself and others at risk for some perverse satisfaction, or did it just happen? I submit it just happened; how could you know? And the question of "Why didn't you stop?" can be easily answered by anybody who's ever been in withdrawal-- why don't you just stop the brain zaps, or just stop the anxiety attacks, or just stop the nausea, the nightmares, the headaches, the joint pain, the tinnitus and so on? You can't stop it.

 

You'll never solve the guilt issue by beating yourself up-- you're assuming responsibility for something you couldn't control with the knowledge you had; consider this: Here's the formula for making appropriate guilt (the only real guilt)- continue to do something when you know better. I understanding feeling sad toward that period in your life, but guilt isn't yours to bear.

 

If my last sentence didn't gestalt you into spontaneously shedding your guilt (lol), please talk to a psychologist. I assure you that will help you deal with this, and it will help you see that "this will pass". 

 

When did you quit cold turkey? 

 

Get stable, taper off slowly, and see a psychologist. 

 

Take care.

[CSC]

Thank you for all your answers. I have a new doctor who suggested that I stop taking it and prescribed me something to ease the withdrawal. Some kind of calming medication. Seems to be working to some degree.

What I mean by feeling of guilt - since I stopped the drug, I just can't make sense of the way I behaved while I was on this medication. I am experiencing feelings of guilt and worthlesness. Especially guilt towards the people I hurt by my actions while I was on this medication. I wasn't myself. Is it possible for a drug to change a person this way? I am reliving bad experiences from my past leaving my body paralyzed, covered in sweat. Is this also one of the withdrawal symptoms, which shall pass?

Thank you so much for your help. I appreciate it very much.

[FiveNotions]

Yes, CSC, I know that part of what you're experiencing very well...the poison while I was on it caused me to do things that I did not remember, that I would not have done if I had been in full possession of my mental faculties.

What TM says is essential...get yourself a therapist and start talking about this. Otherwise it will fester inside of you and make you more sick.

TM is also correct that it was not your intent, it was not your fault...hell, it wasn't even the real you doing those things!

For example, not too far into withdrawal I realized that I had been drinking like a fish....and prior to cymbalta I had been sober for at least 15 years....that much of a realization was quite enuf of a shock for me while I was still going through hard, cold turkey withdrawal...

Recently, now that I'm pretty much through the physical withdrawal, more of my mental clarity has been returning to me....and with it, some shocking realizations of what my behavior had been while under the influence of the poison...for example, I did not file any taxes for four years, I spent thousands of dollars on weird online shopping, and on and on....several weeks ago the cumulative shock of these realizations threw me into a serious three or four day anxiety episode....for which I'm now on medication...Valium...to help me manage it.

I am a Catholic, so the first thing I did was meet with one of my parish priests to discuss all this and to confess what I had done as sins and receive absolution. He carefully and patiently explained to me, after registering his shock horror and dependpst understanding and empathy for what I've suffered....he explained that I was not in my right mind, I was acting under the compulsion of this drug...I did not intend to do what I did...I did not even have cognizance that I was doing these things at the time I did them. There was no sin on my part. He gave me Absolution and a Blessing, as a way to strengthen me in my healing.

I've now got an appointment with a psychotherapist who I will explain this all to...and she will help me begin to work through all this and, where I can, to try to make things right. I've already begun that process...I've filed those back taxes...and I'm making amends to some friends I treated poorly. In all cases, I've been warmly received, with deep understanding and friendships renewed.

But FIRST, you must focus on getting stable physically...get back on the cymbalta and stay at a level dose for a while. Then begin bead counting down.

You should also immediately speak with your doctor about the anxiety and get something to help you manage it...a benzo might be a possibility but there are other alternatives.

Also, you may want to get to a therapist sooner, rather than later...it just depends on whether you are physically able to do so.

[Clara]

Welcome CSC! Many, many of us have the same regrets of past mistakes on this horrid drug. As you read through the forum, you'll find them. BUT as you get through the w/d process, you will be able to let the past go. As thismoment has said many times, you did not plan on or mean for things to happen. You can and will get through this. Give yourself time, try to remain calm, take time off work or studies if possible, and yes, see a psychologist to help you through this. We're here for you! Others will chime in with loving support and wise guidance soon! Keep us posted with whatever is on your mind!!! Hugs and prayers!!!!

[FiveNotions]

Yes, these feelings pass...they start to do so as soon as you start to talk about what you are realizing about your actions.....and you're doing that already, right here!

Keep talking with us....we've experienced what you're experiencing...and are healing...some of us are right where you are in the process, others of us are a bit further into healing and recovery...we each help each other get through this!

You are completely safe here....you are among friends who understand because we've lived this also!

[thismoment]

CSC

 

 "I just can't make sense of the way I behaved while I was on this medication"

 

Nobody can; the science to answer the question doesn't exist. It is what it is. Let it go.

[FiveNotions]

TM, I'm out of "likes"...... but I definitely like your comment directly above!

[TryinginFL]

Well, I saw my therapist this afternoon which was very helpful even tho I cried most of the time...

He is trying to help me work through the anxiety of making the long trip to my son's wedding.  I will see him at least 3 more times until I am supposed to leave on Aug 2.

 

Afterward, I saw my pcp - crying again, and asked if this anxiety was connected to the Crapalta withdrawal - he said it definitely was.  When I explained how bad it was due to making this trip, he told me to just not go... NOT GO??  Also, he said that when I told him the last time I saw him that I had gone off the poison he already had diagnosed me with clinical depression and anxiety.  WTH?  Also, he said that he only prescribes Valium maybe twice a year and did so for me because I asked for it - I told him what a waste it was and that I had gone back on the Alprazolam.  He said the A. is only for anxiety and I need something for the depression - suggested I go back on a lower dosage of the poison!  I said I did not want to, so he told me to "think about it" - there were a couple of other things that he could prescribe that would cover both the depression and the anxiety.  I asked what they were and he would not tell me - because he knew I would go home and look them up (He told me he knew I would!)   For now, apparently it is ok to up the dosage of the Alprazolam a bit in order to sleep.   I am thinking I want a new doc.   He said he seldom has a patient ask for specific drugs - it is his expertise to advise what is best. BLECH....

[FiveNotions]

Wow TFL! I see much good in all that...and much to mull over...esp. about your doc and not telling you what meds he's thinking of.....I need to re-read your post and think on it....and we need TM and FH to weigh in here....

How are you feeling right now?

[TryinginFL]

FN...thanks for your feedback!

 

I'm very tired but not terribly anxious

 

I'm just so over drs right now - think I'll just stay away as long as I can.  Just hope I can sleep tonite!

[FiveNotions]

TFL, I tried to find your basic info in the archives, but I'm not having any success....

Remind me, us, please.....

How long were you on cymbalta, and at what dose? For what condition?

When did you quit, and am I correct it was cold turkey? Did your doc know you quit? Was he supportive, has he been supportive?

Did your therapist know, was he supportive?

Were you taking other meds for depression at the same time as the cymbalta, or prior to cymbalta? (Alprazolam we know about....)

When were you first diagnosed with depression? When were you diagnosed with Anxiety?

How long has this current extended episode of anxiety been going on? Did something specific trigger it do you think?

Now, about today... did your therapist suggest anything about the medications? Does he think you might need to try another ssri?

Did your doc change the dose of dosing schedule of the alprazolam? Did he suggest anything else instead of it? Was he having a conversation with you, back and forth, or did it feel like he was dictating to you?

I don't meant to drown you with these questions, which I'm sure you've answered elsewhere here multiple times...I just can't find those answers now, when we need the info again.....

Hang in there....

[TryinginFL]

Here goes - was on 60 mg/day for about 4/12 yrs - prescribed after I lost my daughter - had already been on Alprazolam for yrs.   Was not on any other anti-depressant.

 

Therapist was supportive but did not know until I was about 1 month off - quit about 3rd week in Jan of this yr.  Yes, it was cold turkey and I didn't tell my pcp until I had been off for about 4 months - he was not happy that I had not talked to him about it - said he was familiar w/the withdrawal.

 

Think the anxiety started a couple of months ago when I really started thinking about traveling all the way to Hawaii for younger son's wedding.  It kept increasing until the past 5 or 6 days when I actually am unable to sleep much.

 

Therapist did not suggest I take anything else, but pcp and I had a long conversation about it.  I told him how I felt and he interrupted me a couple of times and when he said he thought I should go back on the damn stuff at a lower dose, I felt quite sure that I would not see him again.  He told me to "think about it".  Yeah, right - think THIS!  I did get him to agree that I could increase the dosage of the Alprazolam when needed for sleep.

 

Hope I haven't forgotten anything...

[TryinginFL]

PS  I was also on Lyrica - longer than the Cymbalta, but went off it at the same time

[FiveNotions]

Well, here are my thoughts on all this dear friend......

It sounds like cymbalta was prescribed to help you get through the loss of your daughter, perhaps while you were in therapy to work through that trauma....did you really and thoroughly do that? Maybe it's still there beneath the surface?...

Why did you decide to quit, TFL? Were you having cymbalta side effects? Or Did you think you'd addressed the trauma and loss and had pulled through and were ready to see if you could function without the serotonin boost?

You told the therapist, but not the PCP.... You're one of the lucky ones, dear, whose doctor is aware of the withdrawal.... Wouldn't he have helped you with this? Or didn't you trust him?

I think you may be making a huge mistake by quitting this PCP abruptly....you likely won't find another one who knows about cymbalta withdrawal.....and you'll have to start all over again with building a relationship with a new doc....and he likely won't be in the same building as your therapist....

Changing docs mid stream is going to make your stress much much worse....you will have no one to call while you look for a new doc....and doing this so soon before the wedding isn't prudent....

Look dear one, no one can make you go back on the cymbalta....I think your PCP suggested it because he knows...saw...that you were stable on it....

I think it's time for you to consider going back on an ssri of some sort....your brain and body are starved for serotonin, and aren't able to compensate for it right now without some help....the stress of the wedding is helping to deplete the serotonin your brain does have....

You cannot live on just alprazolam....it's just a bandaid...it does zero for serotonin....

Also, you don't have to go to the wedding....your son will understand completely....you know he will! I think your doc told you not to go because he cares about you.....what good are you to anyone at that wedding if you're in constant panic and crying? You certainly aren't going to be helping yourself....

If you want to go to the wedding, that alone is a reason to allow yourself to go back on an ssri....there are many options other than cymbalta.....

I assure you TFL, if I'm not able to address my anxiety by addressing the issues I believe are behind it, I will immediately go back on an ssri...likely the sertraline that I chose not to start taking just now.....my anxiety began three weeks ago, and lessens each time I take action to clean up one of those crapalta messes I've talked about here...

Yours has been going on for months....and nothing you're doing is helping it.....

Remember that saying....the definition of insanity is repeating the same behavior hoping for a different result....

Please don't make yourself suffer any longer...your brain and body are begging you to help them.....let your doctor help you do that.....

[tria]

CSC - Welcome! Listen to everyone else's good advice here!  You asked if a drug could change a person?  That is a huge yes!! Cymbalta changed my moods and personality more than I can believe.  I've had depression, anxiety, irrational fears, and also feelings of guilt and worthlessness that you mentioned.  I seem to dwell on negative feelings as well, feeling that I am going to die, or something bad will happen to someone close to me, I have a "sense of impending doom" on and off also.  I dwell on things I feel bad about that happened in the past.  I'm sure a good deal of all of this is from the Cymbalta withdrawal, and I am tapering off very slowly. I've felt like an idiot because of the way I acted sometimes, been embarrassed by irrational outbursts, and I know now it was from the Cymbalta withdrawal. Be patient and forgiving with yourself.  I agree with others here, get on a dose you feel relatively stable on and stay there for a bit, then start tapering slowly.  All that you're experiencing won't go away immediately.  It will probably wax and wane as you wean off the Cymbalta but you've recognized the problem and are heading in the right direction!!!

[tria]

TFL - Wow! I don't know how long you've been with this particular PCP or how helpful he's been in the past, but I know if it were me, I'd be doctor shopping.  If your relationship with this doc has otherwise been good, maybe give him another chance and try explaining things again to him.  Tell him plainly what you need and what you expect of him.  (I need something to control my anxiety because I want to attend my son's wedding.  I'm not comfortable with meds in general but realize that I need something.  What are my options?  And so on....)   You need a doctor who is willing to listen to you, to trust you (not telling you the names of the meds is just ridiculous), and to help you get better.  Perhaps he could explain what the other meds are, discuss their benefits and possible side effects so then you wouldn't have to go home and do all the research yourself.  (Although if you're like me, you'd look them up anyway )  It doesn't seem like the Alprazolam is working that well for you so maybe you need to consider something else.  It doesn't have to be another anti-depressant.  I think you've read all the suggestions Wagtail received under Withdrawal or Not?  Maybe your doc would be open to trying clonidine, Inderal, atenolol (not sure on spelling?), and a couple others may have been mentioned there.  Sorry if I'm a little one-sided on this issue but I've seen soooo many doctors over my 20+ years of adulthood, that I have zero patience for doctors who don't respect their patients and their concerns.   Whatever you decide about your doc, don't give up on finding something to help you.  Maybe your therapist can point you in the direction of another doc, if you decide to go that way?  Or ask your therapist about this doctor, maybe they can help you communicate with him better? 

[thismoment]

CSC

 

 "Is it possible for a drug to change a person this way?"

 

Yes, of course-- you're living it! And so was I, and so were most of the people here. The living dead from the past come calling during withdrawal! Memories come back in the Theatre of the Macabre, and the theme is always the same: The Times I Screwed Up. And then you find yourself warping those scenes at light speed into the future where you screw up again, and the ending is always the same-- you lose! Don't worry CSC, you're not crazy, you're in withdrawal.

 

It's like a nightmare-- it's not real but it feels real. Your mind can't tell the difference, and you can verify that by the fact that your heart rate is through the roof and there's a bucket of sweat in the sheets! It will all pass, and one day you will be in a sunny garden and a tiny wren will chirp and you will look back on this and smile. I need you to be brave and without judging, simply watch the your mind's dramatic show, but don't engage it; don't get caught up in the storyline.

 

What you are describing is well-known to us here. You're going to be okay.

[tria]

TM

 

"Memories come back in the Theatre of the Macabre" - I love that description, it is so perfect!  Excellent post!!

[GriffinsGranny]

CSC, FiveNotions, tria, thismoment, I can't tell you how much y'all have already helped me. PLEASE keep the info coming. I'm lost, don't know when or if I'll ever find who I used to be, and HATE not being in control of myself. My mind and body have betrayed me and I'm so mad about it! I want to love again, I would love to be able to make love to my husband again, would love to get dressed in clothes that don't hurt, would love to stop getting hysterical, would love to be able to sleep without having to take meds for it. Any of this sound familiar for y'all?

[CSC]

Thanks for all your feedback. Makes it easier knowing I`m not completely crazy. But I don't understand how doctors could describe this drug so easily? I would get a 6 month prescription over the phone in an instant. I didn't mention that I was taking Cymbalta for severe IBS. It eased the mild depression that came with the IBS, but 60mg is a strong dose. But I guess its not going to help to look for somebody to blame. I just have to move past this.

[gail]

(Also, you don't have to go to the wedding....your son will understand completely....you know he will! I think your doc told you not to go because he cares about you.....what good are you to anyone at that wedding if you're in constant panic and crying? You certainly aren't going to be helping yourself....)

 

Right on!if I would be your son Liz, I would understand your situation and would not like you to get sick over this matter. I am sure he would understand if you explain to him how you are feeling.

 

And who knows, when august comes, maybe you will be OK to just hop on that plane and go. We dont know what today or tomorrow will be made of. Much love.

[fishinghat]

TFL

 

Five months off Cymbalta and Lyrica. Still have serious anxiety, maybe even getting worse because worrying about trip. No surprise on the anxiety at this point. I agree with the thought at this point it would be better to stay at home but I can tell from your posts you are going to go like it or not. Do what you can to remove stress. Try to get someone else to take you. Take breaks every hour. Step outside where it is quiet and take a coule deep breaths. Don't volunteer to help any more than you have too. Don't put that kind of pressure on yourself. Do what you have to do to take care of yourself my freind. And God Bless.

[TryinginFL]

FN, Tria and Gail...

 

Thanks for your feedback.  At this time, I am just angry with my pcp.  I have only seen him 3 times and yesterday he admitted that he did not know me that well.  I think he is not going to get to know me any better. 

 

I am flying to Seattle to stay with my older son for 3 days and then he and I are flying to Honolulu.  We will be on Oahu for 6 days and then flying back to Seattle where  I will stay for 1 day before finishing the trip back to Orlando. 

 

Doc made me so mad yesterday that I am now determined to go.  My therapist will help me to get through this.  He only heard that my pcp was a good one...   I will ask him for a referral to someone else. 

 

There is a serotonin supplement available, yes?  I will try that.  I didn't come all this way to start over.  I wanted to come off most of meds and I will continue to try.  I am already off Lyrica, Crapalta, Simvastatin and Trazodone.

 

I might add, I am happy to have lost 12 lbs. since getting off this crap.  I refuse to take something again that makes me gain weight.

 

Hope this didn't have too much of a nasty tone, but I am SO ANGRY!!!   It would also be nice to sleep more than 5 hrs a nite.

[fishinghat]

You are still in a rough spot TFL. I bet that after you get back and the stress is a lot less you will probably crash.

[TryinginFL]

FH - I am to leave Aug 2 and return on Aug 14.  Now I am scared - what do you mean "crash"?

[fishinghat]

Oh, Sorry. I wasn't talking about the airplane!! Bad choice of words, sorry. Around here 'crash' is when someone lays down and sleeps about 10 hours. 

[TryinginFL]

Oh.... thanks!  I was hoping it was something like that!  Yes, I'm sure you are right!!