21 replies to this topic

[starlit]

My fiance and I spent quite a lot of time researching this forum and found many topics on rage, but mine seems especially bad. It resulted in the police being called TWICE to my house in four days. My fiance and I have been together 10 years and have had our problems, but never anything like this. I don't want to go into too much detail about what happened in case someone figures out who I am by reading this post, but to suffice it to say, it's BAD NEWS BEARS. I do feel safe to say that the second time the police called, I was sent to the local ER for a mental health evaluation (they scared me terribly by telling me I was being involuntarily committed, which would mean a 72 hour hold and a court date, and I am starting a new job on Monday that was a huge triumph to net, as I have been effectively unemployed for 3 years. However the EMTs explained what was really going on).

 

Like many people on here, I was afraid this was a new personality trait that was developing as a result of my mental illness (I have several diagnoses), but am extremely relieved to find out that it's just the medication and will pass in time. We called my doctor today, and he suggested going back to the full dosage of Cymbalta (30 mg) and adding Xanax and Clemazepam as needed. I don't want to start the withdrawal process over again if I'm nearing the point where I'll start feeling better, but I've added the Xanax and Clemazepam and have started feeling better. There was a rough period this afternoon where I got really upset again at my fiance for calling 911 to report my breakdown, but that passed and I have been feeling much better for the rest of the day. In sum, we are cautiously optimistic. 

 

We are also thinking of filing a lawsuit against the manufacturers of Cymbalta, as no medication should cause such devastating withdrawal symptoms. Let me know if you would be interested in making this a class action lawsuit.

 

Forgot to mention that I have also been experiencing extreme dizziness and nausea as a result of the withdrawal (though it could be anxiety from the stressful week we've been having). No brain zaps or anything like that, though. I was on 30 mg of Cymbalta for less than 2 months. 

 

Forgot to mention that I also experienced hypomania: I went through a phase where I was fixated on joining the Navy. Luckily I did not get in due to my mental health history- that probably would have been bad for everyone, though it *has* been a lifelong dream of mine, but that's a different story for another forum, probably.

[fishinghat]

Sorry you ad such a bout of rage. I am also very glad you did something about it, two benzos. 

 

There is a law firm collecting clients right know. They have a post I believe under "Cymbalta in the News". I will check and ley you know.

 

Yes that is correct.

[FiveNotions]

Hi Lily, I'm glad you and your fiancé have been reading here, and I'm really glad you posted about what you've been experiencing! It's also a blessing that your fiancé is there to help you work through all this!
 
First, about the nausea ... ginger has helped quite a few of us here ... I chewed raw ginger root ... also, ginger ale, ginger tea, and crystalized ginger work well...
 
The dizziness... well, mostly that just takes time ... I used ice packs on my head, neck and wrist/back of knees pulse points... those little silicon pea thingys that can be put in the freezer (or microwave if you need heat) ...
 
Now, most importantly ... I'm concerned about your new job and where you are in the withdrawal/discontinuation process ... this job is a big deal for you (congratulations!), and it will be stressful, even if it's a "good" stress ... is this really the best time to be getting off Cymbalta, which is hugely stressful? Can you handle both? What if a rage hits while you're at work?
 
Two months, at 30 mg, is a pretty brief time and low dose, yet you're having some hard symptoms from getting off it.
 
Did you quit cold turkey or use the bead counting method? How long have you been off? Or are you still taking it, but at a lower dose? Why did you decide to get off? Were you having bad side effects?
  
If you haven't been off the stuff too long, you could go back on it and get yourself stable again ... then begin bead counting at a very slow pace and more gently wean yourself off.
 
If you quit cold turkey, as I did, it can be a very very harsh shock to the brain ... I experienced a couple of "rage events" ... during the worst one I slugged my best friend ... luckily he's a guy, strongly built, and has had incredible patience with me during this whole thing .. but I understand what you've experienced ... the rage hit me totally out of the blue, instantaneously, and I was totally out of control ... thank God it passed almost as rapidly as it appeared, and I cycled immediately into crying hysterically ...
 
All this weirdness is related to the rapid drop in serotonin levels in the brain that results from quitting cold turkey, or even from removing too many beads in too short a period of time .... our brains need time to rewire themselves and try to get back to managing their own serotonin levels without the "help" of Cymbalta....

 

Please keep posting to let us know how you're doing. We'll do everything we can to help you!

[starlit]

Sorry you ad such a bout of rage. I am also very glad you did something about it, two benzos. 
 
There is a law firm collecting clients right know. They have a post I believe under "Cymbalta in the News". I will check and ley you know.
 
Yes that is correct.

Thanks for the sympathy and the info. I will look into it.

[starlit]

Hi Lily, I'm glad you and your fiancé have been reading here, and I'm really glad you posted about what you've been experiencing! It's also a blessing that your fiancé is there to help you work through all this!

First, about the nausea ... ginger has helped quite a few of us here ... I chewed raw ginger root ... also, ginger ale, ginger tea, and crystalized ginger work well...

The dizziness... well, mostly that just takes time ... I used ice packs on my head, neck and wrist/back of knees pulse points... those little silicon pea thingys that can be put in the freezer (or microwave if you need heat) ...

Now, most importantly ... I'm concerned about your new job and where you are in the withdrawal/discontinuation process ... this job is a big deal for you (congratulations!), and it will be stressful, even if it's a "good" stress ... is this really the best time to be getting off Cymbalta, which is hugely stressful? Can you handle both? What if a rage hits while you're at work?

Two months, at 30 mg, is a pretty brief time and low dose, yet you're having some hard symptoms from getting off it.

Did you quit cold turkey or use the bead counting method? How long have you been off? Or are you still taking it, but at a lower dose? Why did you decide to get off? Were you having bad side effects?

If you haven't been off the stuff too long, you could go back on it and get yourself stable again ... then begin bead counting at a very slow pace and more gently wean yourself off.

If you quit cold turkey, as I did, it can be a very very harsh shock to the brain ... I experienced a couple of "rage events" ... during the worst one I slugged my best friend ... luckily he's a guy, strongly built, and has had incredible patience with me during this whole thing .. but I understand what you've experienced ... the rage hit me totally out of the blue, instantaneously, and I was totally out of control ... thank God it passed almost as rapidly as it appeared, and I cycled immediately into crying hysterically ...

All this weirdness is related to the rapid drop in serotonin levels in the brain that results from quitting cold turkey, or even from removing too many beads in too short a period of time .... our brains need time to rewire themselves and try to get back to managing their own serotonin levels without the "help" of Cymbalta....

Please keep posting to let us know how you're doing. We'll do everything we can to help you!

Thank you so much for all your info! I will try to answer your q's as thoroughly as I can.

You make a good point about timing/quitting cymbalta. This job prospect was not even on the horizon when I started taking it, so that's just bad luck right there. Keeping in mind the point you made I might decide to stick to the full 30 mg until I'm used to my job and have some tactics for the rage issues.

I got off it because my doc was concerned that my wanting to join the Navy was a result of hypomania, since it had just started the week I began Cymbalta. I went down from a full dose to half dose, which the doc said might be too much for some people. He recommends going back up to 90% or full dose.

As for the rage . . . My father always had tremendous rage so I was worried that I was just showing signs of what he had. I have some irritability but am mostly a cheerful, pleasant person though, so this was completely out of character for me. Not that it's necessarily a good thing, but I would much rather be crying hysterically than speechless with anger all the time, especially since I care for young kids.

Thanks again so much for your help, support and info!

[FiveNotions]

Lily, thanks for the additional info ... here's what I think / suggest ... be sure to run this past your doctor...

 

Stay on the Cymbalta until you get settled in your job and have time to develop a careful plan/strategy for getting off of it ... you're clearly very sensitive to it, even at low doses for a brief period of time ... the rage and the mania are clear evidence...

 

Go back up to the dose at which you were stable...if it can be less than the full 30 mg, great ... if not, go back to the 30 ... you need to be stable, but without the mania ...

 

Once you're settled in your new job, and settled back on the Cymbalta, start reducing the drug using the bead counting method. Others here who've used that method can tell you more than I can, since I did it the hard way ..   ThisMoment has a very practical plan, which has been posted elsewhere here ... I'll see if I can find that for you and put the link here on this thread...

 

I forgot to tell you in my previous post, I also had an episode of mania, but it happened after I'd quit the drug ... I didn't run off and join  the Navy, but I spent almost 24 hours straight cleaning my apartment ... Lord knows it needed it, but that was not the way to get it done!

 

And, while on the poison, I started drinking heavily and spent thousands of dollars doing bizarre online shopping ... all sorts of stuff I didn't need ... I also failed to file my tax returns for 6 years in a row! (I was on 60 mg for 7-8 years.)

 

Lot's of us here have had manic and rage and hysteria episodes, started drinking, did weird shopping, etc. while on Cymbalta ... so you're definitely not alone in that ...

 

You've got a great doc, which is something most of us do not have ... and you've got a supportive, understanding and loving fiancé ... and now you've got all of us ... so, rest assured, you're going to be able to get off of this awful drug ...

 

And, you're going to have a wonderful new job for the "new you" !!

[thismoment]

Hi starlit

 

I agree with the doc and FN; you've been off a short time and the time on was also short. Go back on and then wean off after you're stable. Consider perhaps a medium taper like 1% per day over 100 days. Many wean off in 2 months, but that's pretty short. 6 months is common, and now we're seeing reports of ultra-slow tapering (about 15 months) that yields virtually no symptoms whatsoever.

 

The rage will pass and the crying will come in due time. And yes, this is a new personality emerging (it's real), but like the rest of us experienced, it will likely be short-lived.

 

"My father always had tremendous rage so I was worried that I was just showing signs of what he had." It's probably straightforward emulation-- we simply repeat the behaviour we've seen. Don't worry, that can be addressed.

 

Welcome, and hang in there!

[starlit]

Thanks, thismoment. I'm undergoing an intensive, 30 mental health "boot camp" next month after some stressful incidents that happened this month, so hopefully they'll be able to effectively manage my medicine. My doc did warn me about tapering off really slowly, but I've never had problems with withdrawal like this before, so I got overconfident and went too fast. 

 

After just a day on the benzos I'm feeling better. Even the dizziness has gone away. 

 

As for the father/rage thing- I've been addressing that in therapy for quite a while now, but it's quite hard to turn off when that's the way you've seen grown-ups deal with stress your whole childhood. Luckily my fiance (too lazy to add the accent) is as patient and loving as fivenotions said, and he's been trying to "re-raise" me from scratch, like teaching me how to argue without losing my temper or seeing it as being disrespected (culturally, everyone I knew growing up saw it like that). So that was a bit of a rabbit-trail, but yes. I've got tons of quality support, and I'm so glad you guys are here, this forum is seriously a lifesaver. I was beginning to think I was seriously losing it. It just seemed so hard to believe that after 10 years of a relatively stable relationship, this was going to be our new normal. 

[starlit]

Still me, I just was worried about my employers finding this post since they have my frequently used usernames and like to friend me on social networking sites. 

[Tinker]

Hi starlit stardust, I just wanted to mention that I can truley relate to you there in regards to watching how your parents result in conflict effects how you react to it later in life. I'm 30, have had many failed relationships because of my anger among other things (insecurity, drinking) and only now have a promising future with a guy by learning how to deal with my emotions properly through his support. I'm glad to hear that your partner is supporting you through this. Coming off such a nasty drug really seems like a test of our abilities, I hope your new prescription makes the process alittle easier for you. Xo

[thismoment]

starlit

 

To change, most of us need assistance-- a program, or intervention or some sort.

 

We are our history: We become what we are shown; we become what we pay attention to, and we become what we practice. History forges our values, and the quality of our behaviour is enabled by the quality of our values. Therefore to change behaviours we need to make new history to create new values to enable the new behaviour.

 

So we must begin by making new history with new content that emulates what we wish to become. However, the ability to embrace the concept of change-- the practicing of new strategies and techniques can only be embraced if our current values support the notion-- a Catch 22.

 

That's why most of us can't get there from here. That's why we need a coach of some kind, a guide, the parent we should have had.

[Carleeta]

Starlistardust, Welcome. As you've already noticed there are wonderful supportive members here on this forum. Sorry to hear you experience such horrible difficulty coming off Cymbalta. Glad to hear you have added benzos to keep you stabilized. It's very understandable why you are careful not to share to much, infact it's a good thing, due to others who may follow you to different sites. It definitely sounds like you have a wonderful partner and one who understands what you are going through.

good luck with your new job...

[equuswoman]

I had to slowly wean off Cymbalta over 4 months dropping only 1 bead per day. Glad you're here with us. Rage yes I had it but I made it through hell and back thx to the ppl here on the this life saving Cymbalta forum. Prayers from TheEquusWoman♡

[brzghoff]

 

Starlit: welcome to the forum. sorry to learn about your situation. while there are no two withdrawal experiences alike, there are some commonalities. rage was a biggie for me, both on and off anti-d's. my p doc put me on a mood stabilizer to help with it 16 years ago since rage is one of several symptoms of hypomania. he didn't know if it was anti-d induced or not but decided to diagnose me as bipolar 2. while that helped my other hypo symptoms, i started to drink heavily while on both effexor and then later cymbalta. drinking heavily is a classic "self medication" symptom of hypomania. when i quit the C may 15 after an attempt at a quasi-taper (a poorly planned every other day strategy) i dropped the alcohol entirely with no problem once the discontinuation symptoms kicked in. the few times i attempted to have a single beer or glass of wine - as the alcohol would "wear off" severe anxiety set in. conversely the rage returned during the discontinuance, but the difference was the cognitive skills i developed during ten years of therapy while on the C. i was much better equipped to manage the rage once i realized what was happening. glad to hear you are getting therapy as well - it will do wonders for helping the rage and anxiety that come with discontinuation syndrome if you have a good therapist.

 

i understand your concerns about not wanting an employer, or anyone else for that matter, recognizing you on-line due to details about your life and/or recognizing your user name. i created my user name by randomly typing on the keyboard and voila! i'm brzghoff!  

[starlit]

Wow, thanks so much guys for the responses! I'll try to respond one by one.

 

Tinker- 

Sorry to hear you've had such trouble. Sounds like we've gone through many of the same issues, but I'm glad you've found a wonderful guy.

 

Thismoment-

You sound exactly like my therapist! In fact, there's a kind of therapy called lifespan integration therapy which tries to integrate your past with your present so that you can move on to the future (ie: past traumas, or maladaptive coping techniques learned throughout the years). I've been giving that a try but I'm not sure I'm behind it 100%. My therapist has been kind of like a second mom, giving me all the lessons I missed in my early years. She teaches from the Christian philosophy of grace, whereas my mom went by the East Asian philosophy of shame-based raising (in fact, she threatened to email my employer with everything that had gone on the last week so that I would lose my job). 

 

Carleeta-

Thanks for your support and understanding. I'm in no way ashamed of what I'm going through because I know it's not me, but others are not so understanding of mental illness (as evidenced by the attitude of the cop that came to my house).

 

Equuswoman-

Thanks for your prayers, I greatly appreciate them. I'm glad to hear that the rage phase is endurable and has been survived by others before me.

 

Brzghoff-

Glad to hear you worked through your issues with the help of a therapist. Mine has been mostly unresponsive and seems more concerned with covering her a$$ than actually helping me (ie: suggesting my fiance and I move apart, insisting I forgo my new job right away to start the intensive mental health program, and actually refusing to talk to me at all because she's not an emergency social worker)

 

UPDATE:
My doc has put me back on the full dosage of Cymbalta and given me strict instructions to wean off even more slowly than I did before, 10% at a time. He also recommends Xanax and Clonazepam as aids to withdrawal symptoms (they've helped my dizziness, too). The first dose of Xanax helped, but subsequent doses did not seem to help- I experienced mania and got in a lot of trouble while I was unsupervised (as I said earlier, my mom had threatened to tell my employer everything because she disapproves of my employment, so I cut ties with her- this has been a long time coming, though). I am doing much better today after a successful first shift, and feel more like myself again.

[thismoment]

starlit

 

That sounds great!

 

And you doctor is one in a million! Fantastic!!

[Tinker]

Starlit, great to hear that your first day went well and you're feeling better! Keep us posted!

[brzghoff]

 

 

Brzghoff-

Glad to hear you worked through your issues with the help of a therapist. Mine has been mostly unresponsive and seems more concerned with covering her a$$ than actually helping me (ie: suggesting my fiance and I move apart, insisting I forgo my new job right away to start the intensive mental health program, and actually refusing to talk to me at all because she's not an emergency social worker)

 

UPDATE:
My doc has put me back on the full dosage of Cymbalta and given me strict instructions to wean off even more slowly than I did before, 10% at a time. He also recommends Xanax and Clonazepam as aids to withdrawal symptoms (they've helped my dizziness, too). The first dose of Xanax helped, but subsequent doses did not seem to help- I experienced mania and got in a lot of trouble while I was unsupervised (as I said earlier, my mom had threatened to tell my employer everything because she disapproves of my employment, so I cut ties with her- this has been a long time coming, though). I am doing much better today after a successful first shift, and feel more like myself again.

a good therapist is hard to find, but a good one is worth his/her weight in gold. if it wasn't for mine, i would never ever have been able to handle coming off the C. i went through several therapists, the 4th was the charm. sometimes i get angry about the missed opportunities, it took 8 years to find the right one, but then what works for one doesn't for another. its nobody's fault. i know its tough trying to find another and building rapport all over again, but if you ever have an opportunity to do so, you owe it to yourself. 

 

glad to hear your doc is working to help you wean from the C in a more healthy manner. i did not and its been very destructive - however, life is getting much better for me the past week.. 

[starlit]

Brzghoff,

 

Thanks for the advice. I'm beginning to think it *is* time to move on and find a different therapist. My fiance and I have a great rapport with the one we're seeing now, and we love her, but it seems she's run the gamut of useful suggestions, and has now resorted to insisting that we "find God" (it's a Christian based clinic) and that we enroll in an intensive mental health care outpatient treatment program, which I've already stated that I'm not really interested in doing. *shrug* 

 

It just seems so tiring to go through getting to know another therapist and explain the situation to them all over again, and to find out whether they're a good fit or not, but as Rafiki said, it is time. 

[brzghoff]

 

 

Brzghoff,

 

Thanks for the advice. I'm beginning to think it *is* time to move on and find a different therapist. My fiance and I have a great rapport with the one we're seeing now, and we love her, but it seems she's run the gamut of useful suggestions, and has now resorted to insisting that we "find God" (it's a Christian based clinic) and that we enroll in an intensive mental health care outpatient treatment program, which I've already stated that I'm not really interested in doing. *shrug* 

 

It just seems so tiring to go through getting to know another therapist and explain the situation to them all over again, and to find out whether they're a good fit or not, but as Rafiki said, it is time. 

 

 

i know that therapists are not one size fits all, but where i found results is with a "skills based" therapist who has helped me challenge my thinking. not a lot of background/story telling is really necessary at the beginning. he wants to get to the core behaviors and coping skills, the ones that work and the ones that don't. 

 

might want to ask a therapist about their methods and how they measure results. just a thought

[thismoment]

starlit

 

". . . she's run the gamut of useful suggestions, and has now resorted to insisting that we "find God". . ." 

 

Therapist: "You see Starlit, your problem is that you have a skewed, distorted, and unreal sense of reality-- we call that psychosis. But we can help you: we know of this magic fellow that lives in the clouds and he can read your thoughts and grant your wishes. When you come to believe this you will be completely normal." lol

[starlit]

starlit

 

". . . she's run the gamut of useful suggestions, and has now resorted to insisting that we "find God". . ." 

 

Therapist: "You see Starlit, your problem is that you have a skewed, distorted, and unreal sense of reality-- we call that psychosis. But we can help you: we know of this magic fellow that lives in the clouds and he can read your thoughts and grant your wishes. When you come to believe this you will be completely normal." lol

Seriously. 

 

Brzghoff,

What you're describing is exactly what I was hoping for in a therapist. This one came recommended as a cognitive behavioral therapist, but she's really more of a talk therapist, which is nice, but not exactly what I need. 

 

Now after reading some posts on this forum, an additional concern is the vertigo, dizziness and nausea. I experienced those symptoms during the few days I was on half my normal dose, but I chalked it up to previous anxiety symptoms (I actually fainted at the transit center a few years ago, to my dismay). Now I'm afraid they were just more symptoms of withdrawal and that I'll be enduring them for months if not years to come- meclizine did no good.