11 replies to this topic

[Ohio67]

Hello, I've been on Cymbalta for at least 7 years. This is my second time to wean off..I recall the last time was uncomfortable but doable. Thus far, I've gone from 60 to 30 mg and have been at 30mg for 5 days. Slight "drunken head" sensation when turning my head but otherwise ok. Is it reasonable to believe that if all continues to go well, I could cut the dose again soon? E.g. after two more days, cutting back to 15 mgish (by counting beads)? I'm walking daily, taking probiotics, drinking lots of water, napping when tired etc. to support body through process. TIA

[TryinginFL]

Welcome Ohio67!  We're happy that you have found us!

 

My first question is - if you weaned off this poison once, why did you go back on it?  Most don't want to touch it again!  (Just curious )

 

I am a 60mg cold turkey survivor of 11 months, and must say that this has been the trip to Hell. 

 

Did you wean from 60 to 30?  How are you planning to go off the remaining 30?  It doesn't sound as if you've had many horrible side effects, which leads me to believe that you are young - say 20's or 30's?  Younger people seem to have a much easier time getting off this crap than those of us over 50!

 

Are you taking any other meds?  I only ask the questions so that we can help you!

 

You are also doing well with the exercise, water and supplements - I wish you the best and please post again so that we may help you!  This is a group of caring, supportive, wonderful people here! I don't know what I would have done without them!

 

Liz  

[Ohio67]

Thank you for your response! I went back on when crippling depression returned. However, since that time, I was also diagnosed with having a significant gluten intolerance and anemia...diagnoses that can also be associated with depression. So with an updated nutrition plan on board, solid exercise etc, I wanted to come off the Cymbalta and see how I do. I'm 48... I had been misdiagnosed with an autoimmune disorder for 6 years so am currently being weaned off hydrocortisone. I take Xanax in evening for chronic insomnia because it works. I don't generally feel anxious and only use the low dose of Xanax to sleep. Y thThe steroid weaning is medically supervised. The cymbalta is not add the advise was taking dose every other day. ..and I didn't agree with the suggestion.

[Ablesugar]

Ohio67 I wish you as painless a withdrawal as possible. 

 

Interesting thing about this site is a lot of us disappear after we finally get off the stuff.  Its been about two years for me. 

I am glad people like TryingFL  have stuck around to give support.

I was originally given Cymbalta for my neuropathy and had never suffered much from depression.  I firmly believe Cymbalta screwed up my brain a little.

After I had gotten away from Cymbalta I decided to use alcohol as a crutch because I started having depression after I had gotten past the other withdrawal symptoms.  What a mistake that was.  I am glad I retired a few years ago because I would have gotten fired from a job.

Anyway, I am now away from the booze and go to AA meetings once a week because I really enjoy talking with people who have had addiction and withdrawal issues.

I realize this doesn't help you any but I just wanted to let you know that others are listening to you and to warn you about substituting one demon for another.  Hopefully you wont go down that path. 

[Clara]

Ohio67 welcome to the forum! You've got a good plan going with exercise and good nutrition! Bead counting is the way to go as CT is not! Did it and it was tough! Slow and easy does it! Keep us posted!

 Ablesugar thanks for your input and update. I believe sharing our knowledge in this journey is very helpful. The alcohol can be a substitute, but not helpful at all! Tried that too! OH my, I just cannot do the alcohol any more, thank God! Hugs and prayers all!

[TryinginFL]

Ablesugar,

 

Happy to meet you!  I'm so glad  that you came back with your feedback - invaluable to many, I'm sure!

 

I'm sorry to hear of the problem you dealt with, but apparently you are in good shape now! 

 

I, too, am retired and feel that I may be slipping back into some depression, but am doing the best I can to deal with it.  I think it is caused by the fact that the only family I have left are my two sons both living on the west coast.  Feel lonely much of the time.

 

I wish you the best and hope that you have family and friends to help you through the holidays!  Please come back to visit us!

 

Liz

[FiveNotions]

Ohio67, welcome to the forum, and congrats on getting off the poison ... for the second time? wow!

 

my thought is that you're trying to come down far too fast ... as a cold turkey survivor, I can't speak with experience about bead counting, except to say ... don't quit CT, and don't make big dose drops .. 30 mg to 15 mg will put you right into cold turkey experience ...  ... by bead counting, it means to open the capsule and remove just a few ... or even just one ... bead .. per day ... or every few days ...

 

Do this over a period of months, not weeks, and you'll give your brain and body the time they need to "re-wire" and stabilize ... the huge drop in serotonin levels in the brain that coming down in "jumps" ... like 30 to 15 ... is almost impossible for most people's brains to handle ... and, those who know from experience, say that the lower the doses you get to, the more symptoms there are from the withdrawal ... this is all the more reason to go slow, removing just a few beads at a time over a longer period of time ...

 

I'll rummage around in our archives and get links for a couple of the excellent posts/threads we've had on bead counting ... the nitty-gritty specifics of the process ... use that "recipe" and "tweak it" according to what your own brain/body tell you ... and you'll get off the crapalta just fine ...

 

I've got to head out to visit a friend in a nursing home for Thanksgiving dinner ... but I'll check back in this evening or first thing tomorrow and have the links here for you ...

[Ohio67]

Thank you so much to all of you for weighing in.  The support and insight is so appreciated!  It sounds as if I'm hearing a theme of "be patient" in the weaning process.  I went straight from 60mg to 30mg last Saturday, and continue to do fine overall--beyond that bit of "drunk brain" feeling (I'm not a drinker, so I'm aware the feeling in my brain is related to the weaning down process--not alcohol).  It reminds me that I don't have any medical urgency to discontinue cymbalta--beyond my own desire to be free of that cursed drug in my system--and the side effects it has created in my health.  Truthfully, it did the job of managing my depression well--I just don't like the other health trade offs that come with taking the medication. Also, the recent information that I have a significant gluten intolerance which has impacted by body and its ability to upload vital nutrients, caused me to question the root cause of depression, and in turn, my dependence on cymbalta. I'm hopeful that with the change to a new nutrition plan, I can better manage the old demon of depression through food and exercise.  I realized on some level, as I was reading your comments, that I was wanting to be off the drug entirely by the end of the year--but as far as my health goes, I realize that Dec 31st is an arbitrary "be off the drug by" date--and not necessarily one that is in my best interests.  I think my revised plan is to finish off this week at 30mg--and perhaps stay on 30 for another week to measure my progress.  Then, if all is stable, i can begin the bead counting plan to further reduce the dose over time.  I feel comfortable with the bead counting based on the other posts I've read--and appreciate all the time people have taken to write out their process so that others can learn and benefit from it.  Does anyone have any knowledge of how serotonin levels are impacted by coming off the medication and how long it takes for that process to start back up on its own without the medication?  Thank you again to all of you.  

 

[brzghoff]

Ohio67,

 

As far as the impact withdrawal has on serotonin levels - that's from where the withdrawal comes. Cymbalta, and other SSRI/SSNRI drugs for depression prevent the "re-uptake" of serotonin and in the case of cymbalta, also the norepinephrine. those are the two neurotransmitters (chemicals in the brain that are influenced by the C)

 

SSNRI= Selective serotonin and norepinephrine reuptake inhibitor.

 

someone please correct me where i am wrong in the following explanation, but this is how i understand things:

 

in layman's terms,  the chemicals jump across the nerve synapses/receptors in your brain. the theory is that in depressed patients the "Sero" and the "Nor" jump across too fast, preventing proper absorption. the C "inhibits" or reduces the "reuptake" - or the process of the drug jumping across the synapse too fast. this allows for better absorption of the "sero" and the "nor". as you take the C, it takes over what your brain should be regulating. when you reduce and withdraw from cymbalta, your brain doesn't take back over right away. it takes time - hence the mental and physical pain of withdrawal. even once the drug is out of your system (give or take 10 days) your brain hasn't finished re-learning how to regulate the neurotransmitters without the  C. 

 

serotonin is associated with both mental and physical pain. norepinephrine is associated with fear/anxiety. anti-d's are like a "cast" on a broken leg. the drugs take over specific support/regulatory functions normally performed by your brain - like a cast takes over specific functions normally provided by your muscles to support your broken bone while it heals. when you get the cast off, your muscles don't take over supporting your bone again right away. it takes time - and physical therapy. for the same reason, i recommend psychotherapy while in anti-d withdrawal. 

 

while the drug's developers don't know how they inhibit the reuptake of neurotransmitters, they do know this is what happens. does it really prevent/reduce depression? they don't know that either. there is some scientific debate on whether serotonin levels really influence depression or not. anti-d's may not treat depression any better than placebo. but since they are very powerful drugs they could possibly create it since we do know they mess around with your neurotransmitters. 

 

psychiatry has transitioned to a diagnostic model that involves identifying what a drug treats, giving you that drug, and then if it appears to work, you are diagnosed with the condition that drug is designed to treat. doesn't seem very scientific to me. 

 

i am not a scientist, doctor or expert. i read a lot and this is how i've interpreted what i have read. i may be totally full of $H!T

 

what i do know is that it can take anywhere from a couple months to two years to totally recover from the symptoms of withdrawal - with most folks falling somewhere in the 6 months to a year range. some think they will never recover. i prefer not to have an expectation of my personal time line, but i also refuse to accept that i will not recover. we all change over time with or without drugs. 

 

there is also some evidence to suggest that the longer you were on the drug and ​maybe your age also impact recovery. my observation is that those between the age of 20-40 years of age who did not have a long term history of mental illness prior to taking cymbalta self report a smoother recovery towards the shorter end of the spectrum. the longer you were on cymbalta, it make sense the longer it will take to get off. 

 

i was on anti-d's of one kind or another since 1996, at 36 years of age. i went onto cymbalta in 2004 at 44 years of age. i stopped may 15 2014 at 54 years of age. i still take a mood stablizer, lamictal, from which i also plan to wean in the next 6-12 months. i do not know how much the lamictal helped or hurt my C withdrawal. since the 6 month mark my withdrawal symptoms have declined dramatically. however, recovery is cyclic. 

 

 

i firmly believe that everyone will recover and that you will not suffer permanent brain damage from cymbalta. 

[Ohio67]

Thank you brz,,Every time I see a commercial for a pharmaceutical, I feel my frustration rise. Big pharma has the power to indoctrinate us into believing that there is a pill for everything that ails us--including pills to help us come off of the pills they manufacture!  I'm not expecting the weaning off process to be an easy one.  I'm just hoping to manage the symptoms as well as I can and am learning a lot here and reading through the scientific literature as well. I had not been aware previously that cymbalta withdrawal had its own syndrome name--or that the manufacturer had created such an obstacle to coming off of their medication.  When the money is in keeping people sick--not helping people get well, those wanting to come off these medications are in for a difficult struggle without the big bucks and resources available to big pharma. My greatest blessing so far is walking.  I'm joking with my friends that I'm "walking like a gerbil on a wheel."  So far, it seems the best way to manage the symptoms of the weaning process.  

[FiveNotions]

Hi Ohio, I'm back with a couple of links to threads / posts about bead counting .... here's a thread I started (as I note in it, a bit ironic, given that I went cold turkey, but it seemed like we needed some good bead counting info all in one place, so I started the discussion) ...

https://www.cymbalta...g-how-to-do-it/

In this thread, scroll down to the last couple of posts ....

https://www.cymbalta...ting#entry49683

https://www.cymbalta...+bead +counting

[Clara]

brzghoff, just saw your great post! Don't know how I missed it! Having a brain fog down day and plan to go back and read it again! Thanks for your insight! And yes, we are going to survive this Cymbalta crap and thrive again!!! Your post has given me a much needed boost for today!