27 replies to this topic

[Katness777]

Hi All-

 

I have been on Cymbalta for a year and 1/2 now (for anxiety and panic) and have been trying to wean off for 6 months.  I got down to 20 mg and stayed there for a few weeks and then started to go a tad lower and BAM!!! MAJOR symptoms.  My doc just gave me Brintellix 5 mg (4th day now) and said to go back on Cymbalta 20 mg for 4 weeks as he slowly ups the dosage of Brintellix to 20 mg and slowly lower the Cymbalta (after 4 weeks of both).  He said I should be off of Cymbalta in 6 weeks and then wean off of Brintellix.  Anyone hear of this?  I know a few posted but I wasn't ale to see any successes. (New to forums in general).

 

Also- has anyone heard of the Road Back?  Supplement program for weaning off of Cymbalta.

 

Take care!!

[gail]

Hello Iam777,

Wellcome to the forum, I cannot help you with the Brintellix. Just heard about it a few times in the forum, I am not familiar with this, benzos yes, but not this.

As for the road back, there were a few mentions about it, look it up in the nutritional support. I know it is from the church of Scientology, some say they would not touch it with a ten foot pole and others are good with it.

I would suggest that you start a new post with Brintellix as a title to get more answers from those being on it. And perhaps another one with Road to recovery, you will get more answers.

Yeah, they say that the last 15 or 20 beads are the hardest to get off from. But you are talking about mg.

Wish that I could help you more, as I said, do start a new topic with Brintellix as title. And the other one in supplement board.

And I would suggest bead counting from the twenty mg.
It's the best way to go. Any questions about this, feel free to ask.
Post as often as you wish, see you!

[TryinginFL]

Welcome iam777!

 

We're so happy that you have found us..  this is a wonderful, caring, supportive group of the most helpful people I have ever met!  I am a cold turkey survivor of over 11 months now and don't know how I could have made it without them!

 

I agree w/Gail - stabilize at the 20mg and then bead count down - as slowly as you need to!  If you start to feel withdrawal symptoms, stop where you are and stabilize and then pick up where you left off and go down slowly - your body will let you know, believe me!

 

As far as The Road Back, as soon as I found out it was from the Church of Scientology, I didn't even look at it!

 

I wish you the best and please keep us posted!  (Sorry, I can't help with the Brintellix - I have no experience with it...  someone will chime in soon to help you with that!)

 

Liz

[lady2882Nancy]

Brintellix (vortioxetine) is a SSRI antidepressant with the half life of 66 hours.

To put this into terms those of us on here use -  the longer the half life of an antidepressant the easier it is to stop taking it.

 

Cymbalta has a half life of approx. 12 hours which is why it is so incredibly hard to get off of so with Brintellix having a half life of 66 hours stopping it should be quite easy though I would not expect you to need to go up to a 20mg dose of the Brintellix to stop the Cymbalta especially with only needing a 2 week period to reach a steady blood level of Brintellix.

 

You may still have some mild symptoms due to the norepinephrine portion of discontinuing Cymbalta but as I said they should be very mild at most or you may have no symptoms at all. Then once you have been off the Cymbalta for 6 weeks or so you can taper off the Brintellix. 

 

You are so fortunate to have a doctor that understands how difficult it is to stop Cymbalta and although I think this is drawing it out longer than I would do it, I'm not a doctor and your doctor knows you best.

 

Take care and let us know how it goes for you

[lady2882Nancy]

Oh yes and I know someone who used The Road Back program to try to get off of Cymbalta and the last time I had any contact with her she was doing everything the book said to do and taking all the supplements and still not off it so unless you just like to pray a lot then in my opinion you should just go out and buy some Omega 3, a good Vitamin B complex and drink lots of water.

I haven't found anyone who had severe symptoms that found the program very helpful in actually getting through withdrawal symptoms.

Take care of you

[gail]

Lady Nancy,

Great info on Brintellix, thanks!

[Clara]

Hi ladynancy! So glad you came back to help with your wisdom and knowledge! You have been off the crap drug for some time now, correct? Just wanted to ask how long and how you are doing. Still praying for all on the forum! Love  and hugs!

 

clara

[Nicole80]

Hi. I am new too. I don't have any advice to offer, but I just wanted to wish you good luck and all the best in this journey that we are on. I hope that it will go well for you and that you have great success. I look forward to hearing more about how things go for you.

[Katness777]

Thank you all so much for your replies, help and understanding.  This drug is scary for sure and sometimes you feel so alone.  I will stay away from the Road Back if it is related to Scientology. Not for me.  So far with the Brintellix (today is day 7) I feel some better with 5 mg of it and 20 of crapalta. More energy but still weird stuff during the day like my face is on fire but it isn't red. I had that before the Brintellix. Withdrawal from cymbalta I am sure.  I hope you all have a good night. Take care, Lauren 

[gail]

Iam,

Glad you are feeling a bit better.

Keep us posted concerning the Brintallix and the way you feel.

This could be helpful for others that are stuck at 20 or so mg.

Face on fire, you can expect anything from withdrawal.
Would take a face on fire anytime, instead of anxiety or depression.

See you!

[TryinginFL]

Iam,

 

So happy that you are feeling better!  Hang in there - believe me, it will get better, even though it doesn't seem so now...

 

Much love and hugs,

Liz

[Clara]

Hi Lauren! Hang in there! You can do this!!! God bless! Hugs and prayers!   It will get better as time goes by! Take care of you!

[Katness777]

Thank you all   Well, face on fire was a symptom that was new.  Did have some anxiety yesterday and had to take a bit of something to calm down.   I will say that the combo of the two has given me bad dreams.  Not nightmares per se but definitely dreams that I do not like and are disturbing.  Still on 20 mg crapalta and 5 mg of Brintellix.  Has been 10 days.  Supposed to start weaning off of the crapalta this Saturday.  Nervous to say the least. Doc says just to go down to 15 mg but I am wondering if I should bead count...and if so, how many?  Does anyone know how many beads are in 20 mg of generic Cymbalta (duloxetine)?

 

Blessings to you all

[TryinginFL]

Iam,

 

Just so you don't feel alone - most of us have experienced very vivid, strange dreams - very real!  Some had nightmares, but I must say that mine were usually enjoyable - I rather missed them when they went away!  They will go away, cuz they don't last all that long.  Just another one of those s/e's.  There's always a new surprise waiting..

The anxiety will usually hang around for a while.  For some it's longer than for others, so don't try to judge what is "normal", because there is no "normal"!

 

I suggest you start bead counting, the amount being up to you - start low  -  say 3,6,9, etc. You can stop whenever you feel uncomfortable and then pick up where you were when you stopped after you stabilize.  As far as how many beads in 20 mg, I can't help you there.  I did the cold turkey thing.  I'm sure someone here can help you with that - hopefully they will hop on here soon.

 

Good luck and thanks for keeping us posted! 
 

[gail]

IAM,

This morning someone said that his 60 generic had 12 beads. And someone else mentioned hundreds. So, as I can see, there are different generics.

Open on up and count. Could be 4 or more than a hundred.

Those dreams, I know what you are talking about, not exactly nightmares, but it leaves me in an uncomfortable mood when I get up.
Can last for a few hours or more, and I hate it.

So, how many beads are there? I would bead count. As for the Brintellix, you take that in the morning?

I am not familiar with cross tapering. And I do not know if Brintellix is making it easier or harder here.

Ah Fishinghat, your wisdom is needed, how I miss you!

FYI, fishinghat was a member that knew so much about these things and he took a vacation from the forum. You would have loved him.

IAM, keep posting, we don't know everything, but our heart is at the right place, we care.

[FiveNotions]

Hi IAM, I'm arriving at your thread late (have finally been able to go back to work, ended up with 2 jobs, temporarily, so haven't had much/any time to keep up on the doings here) ... just want to give you a belated welcome, and tell you how great you're doing!
 
I gather that you're on duloxetine (the generic crapalta), at 20 mg, have started on Brintellix (cross-tapering, right? to help you get off the crap?), and that your plan is to start reducing the duloxetine this Saturday ... (if I've got any of that wrong, please correct me) ....
 
I'll add my voice to the chorus here ... please bead count, if at all possible! I ended up going cold turkey (health insurance/doc issues), from 60 mg of the brand.... it was pretty awful ...
 
Two big pluses in your favor, however ... you're at a low dose of the duloxetine, and, you've got the Brintellix in your system ...
 
The generic does indeed vary in terms of how many little beads are in a capsule ... depending on what company makes the particular generic that you're taking ... so, you'll need to open one of the capsules and count the beads (yeah, just what you really feel like doing right now ... counting itsy bitsy little balls of poison  ...)
 
The more beads you've got in your capsules the better. That means that each bead has a smaller dose of the Cymbalta ... and it means that you can reduce the dose (number of beads) more gradually ....
 
It would help to know who makes your generic ... the company name should be on the bottle ... if you post that here, along with the number of beads you've got per capsule, we can help you work out a bead counting approach ... and, I can check the archives to see if anyone else has posted about taking the same brand generic as you and has given any information about how they got off it, bead counting, symptoms, etc....
 
You're doc means well, but reducing from 20 mg to 15 all at once is way too much, too fast ... that's a 25% reduction in dose ... all at once ... and it will very, very likely put you into cold turkey withdrawal ... although the Brintellix may mitigate it .... it would be far more prudent to go much slower ...over a longer period of time ...
 
Here's a link to a thread we put together with all the info we could find about bead counting ... FishingHat had been our "go to guy" for this info, but in his absence we needed to try to pull together all the best info we had ... this might help you a bit ... it includes links to several discussions of generic bead counting ...

https://www.cymbalta...+bead +counting

I also just read up a bit on Brintellix (Vortioxetine).... it's got an incredibly long half-life ... 66 hours ... compared to Cymbalta's 12 hours ... wow! ... here's the link to the Wikipedia article about it ... with a long half life like that, it will be a piece of cake to get off of compared to crapalta ...

http://en.wikipedia....ki/Vortioxetine

And here are links to a couple of discussions about it from our archives ...

https://www.cymbalta.../?hl=brintellix

https://www.cymbalta.../?hl=brintellix
 
I'm so glad you found the forum ... I never would have made it if it hadn't been for this place, and all the wonderful people here who helped me and encouraged me  every step of the way ... it took me 9 months, but as I noted above, I'm finally able to work again ... and, don't take that "over a year" comment as a marker for yourself ... I'm in my early 60's, had been on 60 mg for 7-8 years, and was (am still) in lousy general physical shape .... and, I went cold turkey ... so, all those factors were not in my favor ...
 
My point here is, you've made one of the best decisions of your life, to get off this stuff ... and, you're going to succeed in doing so ...

[Katness777]

I wanted to let you all know that I changed my name as I feel odd with "I am".  It is just personal for me and so please do not take it personally. 

 

Thank you all so much for taking the time out of your lives to help, motivate and encourage.

 

Gail- I am taking the 5 mg. of Brintellix at lunch as I take the crapalta in the morning and I don't want to combine the two, thinking it may be too much to take two at the same time.  My Doc did not tell me what time to take it.  Just a gut feeling on my part.

 

Trying In FL- I am a Floridian as well  

 

Five- thank you for the welcome and encouragement.  Yes, you are correct.  I am on the generic. I get it from Canada.   It is called Duzela 20.  Made in India by SUN Pharma.  I just counted and there are 120 "balls of poison" ;-) in the little yellow and white capsules. 

 

I was not aware that what I was doing was cross tapering but I guess that is what it is called   My psychiatrist would not hear of me tapering off so I quite going to him and told my regular Doc who is also a licensed active pharmacist, that I wanted to get off of crapalta and so he said Brintellix would be much easier to get off of than crapalta and gave me samples.  I may have to see if he can give me more samples so I can go off a bit slower by bead counting.

 

Let me know what you think and thanks again!

 

Blessings

[brzghoff]

Katness,

 

glad your primary doc is willing to work with you. your psychiatrist doesn't want to wean you off because if he doesn't have something to prescribe - there is no need for you to be a patient. the more meds, the more you are locked in. that's all a psychiatrist does. prescribe meds. they only track your progress relative to the meds you are on. they are not about looking at the whole person and making the best recommendations for your recovery. it is in their best interest to keep you on meds. i hate to be so negative about psychs - but that is the nature of their specialty. unlike other specialists who work with you regardless of if the treatment is related to diet, physical activity, OTC drugs, etc - most psychs believe their only purpose is to write a 'scrip for a drug - preferably a new brand name. 

[Katness777]

I agree brzghoff.  I also find it interesting that the psychiatrist didn't bring up the Brintellix.  I had to hear it from my regular Doc (he is also a pharmacist).  I know that Brintellix is new and I don't want to be on either one but he said at least the B is easier to get off of.  I just hope the transition is ok.  I cannot find anything about cross-tapering from crapalta to Brintellix.  Guess I am being a guinea pig as usual. 

 

I am having some symptoms but let me tell you it is so much easier when there are people like you and everyone else who has posted that it gives me hope that I can get through this.

 

I am supposed to go down on the crapalta this Saturday and up the Brintellix to 10 mg and I have to say that I am a bit nervous about it.

 

I completely agree with your post!

 

Take care

[brzghoff]

I agree brzghoff.  I also find it interesting that the psychiatrist didn't bring up the Brintellix.  I had to hear it from my regular Doc (he is also a pharmacist).  I know that Brintellix is new and I don't want to be on either one but he said at least the B is easier to get off of.  I just hope the transition is ok.  I cannot find anything about cross-tapering from crapalta to Brintellix.  Guess I am being a guinea pig as usual. 

 

I am having some symptoms but let me tell you it is so much easier when there are people like you and everyone else who has posted that it gives me hope that I can get through this.

 

I am supposed to go down on the crapalta this Saturday and up the Brintellix to 10 mg and I have to say that I am a bit nervous about it.

 

I completely agree with your post!

 

Take care

 

the people on this forum are amazing! it has made all the difference in my on-going recovery. having a doc that is also a pharmacist is awesome. he has a clue about what he prescribes! the B plan sounds like a good one. i had not heard of brintellix until it was mentioned on this forum a couple months back. i did the cold turkey thing and it has been rough. i feel i am "coming out the other side" now. the past week i've taken a nose dive back into anxiety and some depression which is actually very normal, even after 7 months off the C. of  course it doesn't feel normal in the throes of anxiety, but each up swing after a downward cycle is better than before. hopefully that will be how it is on your journey as well. however with a cross taper - you are likely to feel much less severe symptoms.

 

as for not finding info about cross tapering with brintellix, i am not surprised. there is little medical information about weaning off SSRI and SNRI drugs at all. most doctors don't believe its a problem because that's what the manufcturers tell them. for some reason they think its okay to taper by taking a med with a half life of 12 hours or less every other day - as a means to wean. even though that obviously puts the patient into and out of withdrawal every other day. i guess doctors can't do math, there is no gradual reduction of the drug in the blood stream when a patient is told to go from 20 to 0 to 20 to 0. its just up and down and up and down and then a jump off a 20 mg cliff.  it must be reduced gradually in the same direction and/or crossed tapered onto a different drug that is easier to get off, and then still a gradual taper from the 2nd drug. some doctors are just now becoming aware of the real challenge with the dependency issues caused by SSRI/SNRI drugs and are willing to dig deeper, do some research and work with each patient as though they are an individual rather than treat them one size fits all. however, that takes work. its easier for doctors to simply tell the patient that the symptoms mean they must be on the drug for life because the depression is coming back. that's another way of the doctor saying: "i have to put my head in the sand because if i acknowledged these drugs create a dependence which make withdrawal difficult i'd be admitting i didn't give you proper informed consent before i prescribed it and therefore am setting myself up for a lawsuit" i have no idea how doctors who prescribe cymbalta/duloxetine as a pain med to patients with no mental illness explain the prolonged withdrawal symptoms. no doubt, treating their resulting anxiety is the same (I am a fan of cognitive behavaioral therapy) but the appearance of anxiety and depression in patients who were being treated for neuropathic pain and/or arthritis speaks volumes about the harm these drugs do.   

 

sorry if i sound angry, but i am. <sigh> vent over. 

[Katness777]

brzghoff-  Inever thought of it that way...that they are covering themselves because of being liable.  It amazes me the world we live in.  We are live guinea pigs!!!  Don't worry about your venting.  It helps me to hear that others are as frustrated as I am. 

[iammiserable2014]

Welcome Katness,
I'm pretty new at this also..so I understand your frustration. I quit cold turkey a month and a half ago. It's been very rough, and still is.
This is a great group of people here though. They are very helpful and understanding. Good luck

[Katness777]

Thanks!!!  You take care of yourself.  Those of you who do cold turkey...WOW!!  Strong, that's what you are!!!

[Tammi]

I'm not strong. I have had to cold turkey 90 mg daily of Cymbalta due to finances. Chills, fever, oh sooo bad nausea and stomach cramps, unable to think, foggy, feeling like my insides are a cyclone, agitation, crying, having nightmares, shaking, having no filter on my mouth----awful, horrible things come out and I just cannot stop it when this happens, Tv is too much stimulation for me to handle and wanting to die at times when overwhelmed, my whole body hurts---muscles , bones skin All of these things happening and it's just 11 days today. I'm horrified of losing "myself" when this crying stuff happens, usually in the evening I'll just start shaking and then all hell breaks loose.
I'm at my wits end. My poor husband.
The more I read the more afraid I'm getting. Months, years of this stuff?????? I'm having a hard time holding myself together.
I'm unable to go to a doctor and I really don't want to get on anything else.
Can someone give me guidance as I'm so lost as to what I can do to make me feel better????

[Tammi]

Insomnia and my Hair even hurts sometimes.
Thanks for any and all help.
Tammi

[fishinghat]

Hi Tammi. Welcome to the site. I identify with your story and sympathize. Only two things really help. Come off slowly (sounds like not possible for you) and time. By the end of the second or third month things slowly begin to improve. In the mean time you need to reduce as much stress as possible. I too couldn't watch TV. Try to rest and relax as much as possible and don't put too much pressure on yourself.

 

Remember you are not alone. We are here any time to help out.

[FiveNotions]

Tammi, thank goodness you found us!
 
Is there is any way, any possible way, that you can scrape together the $$ to buy the Cymbalta ... just enuf to allow yourself time to get back on it, get stable, and then count down off it by bead counting? (opening the capsule and removing a few beads, or even 1 bead, at a time)? You could set the removed beads aside, and use them for upcoming doses (by putting them in empty gel caps that are available at health stores)..... if yes, get back on it and get stable ... would take a couple of days ... then, we can teach you how to bead count ...
 
This would stop the cold turkey withdrawal, which is what you're experiencing now ... I went cold turkey, as did a number of us here ... and yes, it's hard. .... we all made it, and you will too ... it's just that it can put your brain and body through the wringer for the first few weeks ...

 

If you have children to care for and/or a job, bead counting would really help ... children come first ... and working while going through cold turkey ... well, not easy ...
 
The things you're experiencing, emotionally and physically .... remember, you aren't "crazy," you aren't going to feel like this forever, it's NOT permanent ...

 

The reason for all these symptoms is serotonin ... it's a key "neurotransmitter" in the brain, and Cymbalta artificially regulates/increases the serotonin level in the brain ... so, quitting cold turkey is a real hard shock ... the brain suddenly, without any warning, finds itself without enuf serotonin to keep all the key body functions (everything from emotions to muscles, to digestion, to vision) operating smoothly ... so, the result is all the awful hard stuff you're feeling ....
 
There are some basic supplements we recommend that do seem to help most of us: multi vitamin, B complex, Omega 3 fish oil, and chelated magnesium.
 
Before taking it, be sure to check to see if the chelated magnesium interacts with any other meds you're taking ... here's a link to a list that Fishinghat posted a while back ... https://www.cymbalta...-with-some-meds
 
The magnesium helps a lot with the muscle aches and pains ... you can also use Epsom salt hot soaks/baths, it's a form of magnesium and it can cross the dermal barrier and get straight into the muscles....

The fish oil seems to help with what we call "brain zaps" ... also the vision issues that some of us get ...
 
I found that taking Robitusson cough syrup and/or Nyquil helped me a fair amount ... both of them contain a substance called "DMX" ...    ..... it has a short term effect of boosting serotonin in the brain .... the Nyquil also helped me to sleep .... BUT do NOT take either of these in excess, or if you need to drive, take care of children, etc ... they can be dangerous ...
 
Dramamine may help with nausea .... I didn't use it, others here did. What worked great for me was ginger ... raw ginger root, sliced and chewed, ginger tea, ginger ale, and ... what I really loved ... the crystallized ginger ... you can get it at most health food stores and some grocery stores (Giant near me carries both the root and the crystallized) ...
 
Drink lots of fluids ... herb teas also ... try to stay away from caffeine ... and alcohol ... and white sugar/candy ... honey is better ... eat light in general, as your stomach isn't likely to digest foods easily ....

Another "home remedy" that really helped me (still does, I'm still taking it) is Bragg's Apple Cider Vinegar ... it's also available in most health food stores, as well as from the internet (Amazon, and Bragg's directly) ... can be put in water, with honey, etc.... during early withdrawal, I drank it straight ... my food cravings were totally weird, and at the time it actually tasted great just like that ... blech ... there've been studies (which I now can't find, typical) that indicate it's a food that naturally increases serotonin levels ... it also cured my arthritis ... (Grandma knew more than I gave her credit for!)

 

There are lots and lots of other "tips and tricks" to deal with each of the various "symptoms" that you experience ... just tell us what they are, and we'll give you suggestions ...

 

The important thing is this .... getting off this drug is a GOOD thing, and you've made a GOOD decision ... if you have to stick with the cold turkey approach, so be it ... you will get through it ... the hardest is the first 2 weeks ... and you're 11 days in, so hang in there ...

 

Please stay with us, and keep us posted on how you're doing. We're here to help!

[thismoment]

Tammi

 

Yes you are in full-blown Cymbalta Cold Turkey! It's a tough go, but many before you have struggled through this; it CAN be done!!

 

As FH and FN have said, the best way to discontinue is by slow reduction of the dosage over a long period of time. For example you might reduce by 1% per day over 100 days (1% on day one, 2% on day two, 3% on day three and so on). You open the capsule and count the beads and figure out the reduction dosing based on the number of beads in a capsule.

 

Even longer weaning periods have been reported with very good results: 6  months, a year, and even longer. In general, the slower you go-- the fewer the symptoms you will have to endure.

 

I understand your position of not being able to purchase more C, but just one more month's prescription would help a lot when used to taper off and alleviate suffering.

 

Note-- Perhaps the best you can do is find distractions to take your mind off the symptoms- but NOT passive distractions like teevee because that is too non-interactive, and you still focus on your suffering. Do things that require some physical activity, like chores and projects that give you satisfaction when you do them to your own good standards.

 

Foster your dignity: Stay clean and neat; I know even this can be a struggle, but it will help.

 

Everybody is different, but this is common: Cold Turkey will yield at least 6 weeks of challenging symptoms with improvement appearing thereafter, but still a struggle for a couple of months. After 3 months things get better. By 6 months you've learned coping strategies, and there is a lot of improvement. If your physician hasn't started you on another antidepressant, you'll know you can make it.

 

The only thing that matters is quality of life. Best wishes!