43 replies to this topic

[Pups4Life]

Hello!  I've been on Cymbalta for just over 1 1/2 years for severe anxiety and panic attacks and depression that followed.  Was on 60 mg, tried to go up to 90mg but couldn't tolerate the fatigue.  This summer I weaned off verrrryyyy slowly (counted more beads than I ever want to count again) and tried to go on Celexa, but the Celexa worsened my anxiety. I went back on Cymbalta, but only at a 20mg dose.  I can't say it ever really helped the whole time I was on it, perhaps somewhat with anxiety, but it seemed to cause worsening depression (my doc won't buy that) and a whole host of other side effects that just wouldn't go away.  I saw a locum in my doc's office who agreed to try something completely different...trimipramine.  He told me I could switch right over because I was on such a low dose of Cymbalta, but I'm extremely sensitive to meds and we agreed I'd wean off over a month's time, but start the new med at a really low dose.  The pharmacist didn't like that and warned me about serotonin syndrome.  So, I weaned off from 20mg over a week's time....10 mg for 4 days, 5 mg for 3 days and then started the new med and quit Cymbalta.  The first day on the new meds I was flat out on the couch (and was on 1/10th of the recommended dose) and couldn't stay awake.  As the days went on, I got every flu like symptom, extreme exhaustion, dizzy spells, brain zaps, shivers.  After 5 days I quit the new drug (I had already decided it was the last kick at the can as far as meds go) and felt a bit better.  The next day the brain zaps and weird spacey head feeling was worse, and while they're a bit better today, I feel irritable and agitated, jittery, feel ready to fly into a rage over the slightest thing (my poor dogs have seen a horrible side of me) and the anxiety is pretty high and I cry over everything.  I've never been a rage-aholic before and not generally this irritable.  I'm on day 9 of being off Cymbalta, day 4 of being off the new drug and still feeling pretty lousy.  Is this normal?  My greatest fear is that the anxiety will come back full force and I'll be in the same place I was when this journey started (I don't know if I can go through that again).  I know I'm not the same person I was before as I've done a TON of work towards working through my "stuff" and healing.  Sorry for the lengthy post...I've wanted off this drug for a long time, but I'm just feeling so anxious and out of control right now.

[thismoment]

Pups4Life

 

Hi, and welcome.

 

"Is this normal?" YES. You're NOT going crazy! ALL of it is normal for discontinuation from Cymbalta at day 9 after that length of time on the med. The short trial with the TCA Trimipramine probably didn't help.

 

Let's address your greatest fear about the anxiety returning. Do you have a benzodiazepine on the shelf for as-needed, should anxiety re-appear? If not, you might consider getting one (just be aware that if you take them every day, benzos are as hard to get off as SSRIs). Also you might consider hydroxyzine or clonidine as non-addictive alternatives for anxiety. Talk to your physician.

 

You could consider re-instating on Cymbalta and then weaning off over a few months, or continue cold turkey. Please let us know how we can help.

 

Take care.

[Pups4Life]

Thanks for your reply God-like (and is it normal to be this weepy?  Your response made me cry!)  I have some clonidine that I tried while I was on Cymbalta, but got really lightheaded...maybe that was the combo of the two?  I might give that a try!  I do have some Ativan and have been using it more over the past week...I'm just really wanting to stay away from any psychiatric drugs.  I just read a book called "Irrational Medicine" and am appalled at the marketing of these drugs and want to stay as far away as possible.  I have considered re-instating Cymbalta, but don't want this to all be in vain as the brain zaps are lessening and I think I want to soldier on.  I know no one has a crystal ball, but is the anxiety I'm feeling part of withdrawal or a sign that it's going to get worse?

[Pups4Life]

LMAO...I see your username isn't God-like, but "thismoment", whoops!  Apparently this is affecting my reading ability too!  
I just did a search on hydroxyzine (I'd never heard of it before) and don't understand why, through this whole thing, none of the doctors I've been to have tried this out!  Instead, they pull out the heavy duty drugs and hand them out like candy, paying no attention to how they can interfere with one's ability to even function!  Do you know if it works along the same lines as Benadryl?  I've been using that to help with the symptoms...and it helps with the insomnia.  

[TryinginFL]

Hi and Welcome Pups4Life!

 

Yes, it is normal to be "weepy" - I still cry easily and I have been off the stuff for a year now!

 

I had never heard of Hydroxyzine either until I joined this forum (and I never used it), but it apparently works well for some.  Many  use/used Benadryl.  

 

I went off of 60mg/day cold turkey and don't know how things would go for you if you continue that route - being that you were on a much lower dose and I'm quite sure that you are rather young (I'm in the "over 50" crowd - it's harder for us!), you have that going for you.

 

Your experience with the Clonidine has been felt by others here - it is up to you what you feel works the best.  You have the Ativan if you need it.  I used/use Alprazolam (Xanax) as needed and have for the entire withdrawal/discontinuation.

 

Please let us know if you need more help with bead counting or be sure to keep us posted as to how you are doing.  If you feel you can ride out the cold turkey, you have a good start.  I wish you well!

 

Liz

[thismoment]

P4L

"I know no one has a crystal ball, but is the anxiety I'm feeling part of withdrawal or a sign that it's going to get worse?"

This is a question you will ask yourself about any number of symptoms that will appear in discontinuation, "is this (achiness, rage, weepiness, nausea, vision problem, dizziness, joint and muscle pain, anxiety, fatigue, headache) part of withdrawal or am I developing something completely new, like fibromyalgia . . . or a heart condition, or a brain tumor??!!

Upon hearing your complaints, it's not uncommon for the physician to immediately recommend another SSRI-- it's what they do-- treat symptoms. But hang in there, you're not dying-- although a trip to the ER is something many of us have done!

How long is cold turkey? After your length of exposure you might have 6-8 weeks of what you have now (the brain zaps should last a week or 10 days), and some improvement over the following few months. 6 months has often been reported as "Hump-Month", and things improve a lot thereafter. It's slow going for many (but others report easier times); it's impossible to plot a standard discontinuation course.

When is it over? That's a hard question to answer for the same reasons-- it just continues to fade and occupies less and less of your mental bandwidth. One day you will just not notice it as much, and you might conclude that it's over.

[lady2882Nancy]

Hello Pups4Life

 

There are so many factors that determine a time line for getting off this drug such as age, general health etc that it's hard to pinpoint a time when you will feel better.

 

I went from 60 to 30 then bead counted to 15mg then due to side effects stopped there and suffered immensely but then I am in that over 50 crowd and I should not have been given an antidepressant without something else for moods. I developed severe anxiety going off but was put on Zoloft for 6 weeks and that took care of the anxiety although again it rev'ed me up so I had to go off it too but at least that was easily done not like that Cymbalta (or Crapalta as I still like to think of it).

 

I can at least tell  you some things that can help with the symptoms if you want to continue off and they are :

Drink lots of water

Take a good Vitamin B complex

Get & take 3000mg/day Omega 3 and if you can find one that is High in DHA with no or low EPA it is calming

Exercise as much as you can - this helps with anxiety too

 

I'm sure there are some others who can add to this list or there may be a post somewhere but I haven't been around as much as I used to be. I have been off the stuff for almost 2 years but had to deal with the full blown BP I was left with due to taking Crapalta

 

All the best and take care of you

 

[FiveNotions]

Hi Pups, welcome !
 
I'll add to LadyNancy's supplement list ... also a good multi-vitamin, and chelated magnesium (helps with the zaps, as does the omega 3, which is the key one for zaps) ... but, before you take the magnesium, check it against this info on possible magnesium interactions with other meds/supps ... https://www.cymbalta...with-some-meds/

 

The effects you felt when you tried the clonidine could have been related to blood pressure ... clonidine is primarily (or was) used to treat high bp ... it short-circuits the adrenaline/cortisol circuits that contribute to stress and thus high blood pressure ... I use clonidine, with excellent results ... but I also have borderline high bp, so it's a good combo ... if you use clonidine, you need to get a blood pressure cuff (one of the wrist ones works fine) and check yourself daily so you don't lower your bp too much ...

 

the crying/rage/anger emotional stuff is par for the course .. just hang in there ! And stay here with us, we'll do everything we can to help you through this ...

[Pups4Life]

Wow!  Thanks everyone for the advice and mostly the well wishes!  I'm amazed how much people have reached out to encourage and support me...wow again!

I have been seeing a naturopath who specializes in mental health so I'm already on a high dose B complex, Omega 3, Magnesium Biglycinate, Niacinamide, Vit D, a sleep aid with 5HTP and probiotics.  Exercise hasn't been happening as aside from walking the dogs when weather permits and my part time work (it's physical in nature) there's not much left in the energy tank.  Before Cymbalta, I was a gym rat, a runner and extremely healthy...I loathe this drug!!

Last night was the first night I slept without the help of a sleep aid, Benadryl or Ativan...so that is my celebration thus far today!  The jitters and agitation are still there, but I also wonder how much of that gets worse because I'm thinking about it so much.  I just feel out of control.  I have to take it day by day, sometimes hour by hour, because I tend to get myself into a frenzy worrying that this will last forever and I'm going crazy!

 

I saw my doc on Friday who told me, based on the half life of the drug, it should take about 3.5-5 days for this to pass (pharmacist says the same thing).  I'm on day 10 and still going strong.  Why oh why is it the very ones who prescribe this stuff that know the least about it??  I've read oodles of stories about the difficulty coming off this drug...I know not everything I read online is truth, but there can't be this many people making stuff up!  My faith in the medical profession has dwindled...drastically!

[fishinghat]

The reason why is that the medical people are trained by the manufacturer when a new med comes out.

[Pups4Life]

Well, I'd like to see the manufacturers of this drug force fed it for 6 months at a high dose and then forced to go off cold turkey.  And that's not even the withdrawal talking!!

[TryinginFL]

You and me both, Pups!!

[Pups4Life]

UPDATE!!  And maybe some help?

 

I don't know how to start a new thread, so I'll continue here.  Today I'm at 3 weeks of being of Cymbalta.  Most of the physical symptoms are gone (such as flu-like symptoms and brain zaps) but emotionally I'm a mess!  The anxiety is brutal and I'm beyond angry and feeling pretty defeated.  I'm not sure if this is withdrawal or a sign that without AD all my symptoms are back and heightened.  I've been on AD for 12 years...was put on them when my mom passed away and when I got through that, I just stayed on a really low dose to prevent that from happening again.  2 1/2 years ago I had a trauma that caused panic attacks and major anxiety and next thing I knew I was on the path of hell dealing with anxiety, panic and depression since.  When I went on Cymbalta, it seemed to help somewhat for the anxiety, but I believe it caused more depression and came with a boatload of side effects.  My doc and I decided enough was enough and I weaned off of 20 mg in a week's time.  Clearly that was too fast, but just wondering what people's thoughts are on the overwhelming anxiety?  I've always been somewhat anxious by nature, but this is horrible.  I'm feeling pretty hopeless these days and yes, having some suicidal thoughts (would never act on them)....and I'm scared of what can still happen and how bad this will get.  I've got some Ativan but it's another psych drug that I'm trying to avoid.  I took a clonidine yesterday afternoon and while it helped with the anxiety, I was pretty groggy for the rest of the day.  I'm so incredibly tired of living like this...this isn't actually living...it's existing and enduring.  I need to see a light at the end of this tunnel.  I'm feeling rather misunderstood as some tell me it's old emotion that I'm actually feeling right now and others say it's simply withdrawal and I have to be patient.  It's hard to be patient when I feel this afraid and sad all the time.  Someone, please tell me this will indeed end and I will feel like a normal person again one day...soon!

[gail]

Hello Pups,

I could have written that post myself. Overwhelming anxiety will lessen with time. This is part and typical of discontinuation.

It can go on for a while, and patience is the name of the game. You have the clonidine to help and the ativan. Most of us had or has to use the benzo to help us through this tough time.

I understand that you are scared, freaked out. You are right about the sense of this is not living, only existing, and this will level out with time.

We all have been where you are at this moment, and some of us are still there. Hang on, what you are going through is the norm in discontinuation. Try to keep your mind busy with whatever till it passes.

There is no easy way out, and you will be OK with time.
Read through the archives about anxiety, you will feel less alone.
And keep posting!

[Pups4Life]

Thank you for the reassurance Gail.  I feel like I'm going crazy at times...I just can't shake the negative thoughts and anxiety...and the fear of how bad this can get.  I really didn't expect this as I was on such a low dose...not even on a therapeutic dose.  I'm trying to be patient, but two + years of this hell and never finding any relief from a med, and then being on one that in turn causes MORE symptoms when coming off...can't help but feel pretty upset.  Does anyone else feel like less of a person dealing with this?  I go out and see so many people who appear to be content (I know, we ALL have our stuff and no ones life is perfect) and I wish I could be the carefree person I used to be...one who wasn't always conscious of my thoughts and feelings before anxiety and depression.

[TryinginFL]

Awww, Pups,

 

I understand the anxiety and feelings of hopelessness...   Are you taking anything for the anxiety?

 

It is not easy to be patient when you are dealing with so many negative feelings, but it really WILL get better - since we are all different, I certainly can't give you any time frame, but you will start having a few good hours at a time, then a day here and there and then several in a row!!

 

You are only 3 weeks off, so it will take a little longer.  Hang in there - better days are coming!

[Pups4Life]

Thanks.  I try not to read through too many stories on here as I tend to take on the negative ones and worry that that'll happen to me.  Do most people who come off of this stuff feel better managing depression and anxiety au natural?  I'm on a bunch of supplements and working closely with a naturopath, a therapist, and am in a healing circle.  I think I've got my bases covered as far as support and working through stuff goes, but worry that maybe it isn't enough.  I don't WANT to go back on medication (I keep my home and environment as natural and chemical free as possible...I really don't want pharmaceuticals in my body) but will do so if I HAVE to.  I feel like so much of this is out of my control.  In my Healing Circle the therapist believes that much of this is old emotions and feelings coming to the surface to be felt and released (in addition to the withdrawal).   Does that ring true to anyone else's experience?

[TryinginFL]

Yes, you certainly seem to have your "bases covered" - I think you're doing great in that respect!

 

Whatever emotions you are feeling now - whether they are from the past or present - are there because you are actually "feeling" again!  I had the same revelation - when we are no longer having everything "numbed" by these horrible meds, there is a feeling of awakening as far as emotions.  I am still amazed at times at how deeply I feel about certain things - so different than before!

 

It's OK - you will be OK - just hang on a little longer! 

[gail]

Hi again,

As Liz said, you have your base covered.

But discontinuation is playing a great part in it. And, somehow, you have no control with this anxiety that is part of the package deal of again, discontinuation.

Your brain is rewiring, and that takes time, even though you were on a small dose of 20 mg.

Gosh, I hate saying this, let time pass! Anxiety is a beast, take what you have to to get it under control.

We all have a cross to bear, or bare, French speaking here, this is yours for the moment and you will see the light eventually. Minutes at a time, then hours, then days.

You will make it, and I am so sorry that you are going through this. I do know what it is, what it feels like, please continue to post.

We are here for you, and we have been there♥

[Pups4Life]

Thanks for your encouragement! I guess I keep scaring myself with thoughts that are not helpful...about this never ending, going crazy or something being wrong with me. I feel as awful as I did when this battle started...and that scares me and makes me feel defeated. The anxiety isn't as bad right now but the dark mood sure is. My goal right now is to stop judging my feelings and let them be. It's like I need to have a great big cry but I'm too exhausted to cry (is exhaustion part of this or a result of fighting anxiety?). I'm just wiped but not sleeping well. Is it common that these symptoms started after the usual flu-like and brain zaps all disappeared? I still get the shivers and freezing cold when lots of emotion comes up....

Well, I will hold onto the wisdom of those who've gone down this road before me....

(And I still wish bad things upon the manufacturers and sales people of this drug who KNOW how awful it is!)

[Pups4Life]

One more question (sorry for being so "needy" today!)  I'm not sure if it's connected to the exhaustion, but is it normal to just not be able to think?  I have a hard time following conversations and find myself zoning out a lot...I've NEVER been like this before and this just started over the past couple of days.  

And...has anyone used any homeopathic remedies?  My naturopath have given me a couple (working with blocked chakras, I think) and the only problem I have with them is the amount of alcohol in them - I'm not a drinker as I can't stomach alcohol and wondering if the alcohol may be adding to the problem.

 

Have I mentioned how much I would like to force feed this drug to those who prescribe it only so I could take it away and then reassure them that they'll be fine in 3-5 days!  
 

(I guess that was more than just "one more" question....) 

[thismoment]

P4L

I think TFL and Gail have given you a lot of extremely wise and helpful information. Their knowledge and insight comes from having endured this horrendous adventure; I can't add much to what they've already said.

You said, "I feel like so much of this is out of my control". You're absolutely correct: EVERYTHING that emerges, including symptoms and thoughts are totally beyond your control. You are not choosing any of these things in advance-- they simply emerge. And as you've already said, judging any of this makes no sense-- it just brings you down because you can't control any of it.

All you can do right now is watch this uncomfortable show unfold-- it's like a sea voyage in rough water-- you simply must endure it, and calmer seas will slowly appear. The rough discontinuation lasts a few months, then it breaks some-- and you're over the hump by six months. Avoid getting hooked on other drugs-- if you can-- but use the meds especially for anxiety. As you know, they're ALL addictive and you will have to wean off them some time in the future too. Some benzos could be worse to come off than Cymbalta. Use anxiety meds as-required only.

Hang in there. Find distractions that engage your mind and stimulate your imagination. These interests and mental engagement will serve to build the mind you will have in the future, when you emerge from this nightmare. We've all been there; you are NOT alone!

[Pups4Life]

Wow, thismoment...thank you so much!  I wasn't aware how much I was beating myself up for being in this place...for not being able to control the thoughts or the anxiety...and feeling like I'm doing it all wrong.  I hope and pray that your time estimation is wrong though...6 months of this is beyond what I can fathom right now.  I'm avoiding Ativan at all costs...maybe once or twice/week at the most.  I'd rather use benadryl or the clonidine...or nothing.  I'm hoping this exhaustion will dissipate soon or that I find the strength to push through it and get myself back to the gym or running outside.  I know how important the physical exercise is, but it just hasn't been happening.  Well, I'm hoping to be able to report back with better news tomorrow!

[thismoment]

P4L

 

Many people have shorter times in discontinuation, and hopefully yours will be short and sweet! It could be done in 6 weeks!! There is no definite rule. Typically though, what we hear following a couple of years of duloxetine exposure is 6-8 weeks of difficult symptoms followed by a month or two of not-so-difficult (but uncomfortable) symptoms. After those first 6 weeks or so you will notice improvement, though generally not a big amount. The 6th month seems to be "hump month", where you know for sure that you are going to be alright.

 

But for some months thereafter there are waves of symptoms that may appear once every couple of weeks. Eventually the waves become ripples and they are fewer and farther between; they are easily tolerated.

 

The symptoms fade and fade and you pay less and less attention to them. Eventually they are not noticed at all.

 

Use the anxiety meds as-needed only. 

[Pups4Life]

Well, I can handle a month or two of "not-so-difficult" and am ok with "waves" and "ripples" too....as long as I know there's an end in sight to what's happening now.  I've got a whole lot of people praying for me, so I'm gonna focus on getting to the 6-8 week mark and imagine myself feeling whole once again.  Does anyone know if doing a cleanse or detox would be beneficial or is that too much added stress to the body?  

[thismoment]

P4L

 

Those timelines I suggested are not science-- they are derived from anecdotal data. You could start to feel better a whole lot sooner; there is no firm rule of time-to-finish. Therefore it is counterproductive to assign an end-date, as that would be an expectation and that could lead to profound disappointment and setback. It just goes day-to-day, and soon there will be brief moments of reprieve-- then after a while longer moments of peace will appear. 

 

It's my opinion that a cleanse or detox is a positive practice anytime-- mostly because cleaner foods (fruits, vegetables, tea, water etc) are eaten, but the most positive aspect is the fact that less food is eaten. For many of us there is a strong correlation between over-eating and the waves of nausea, GI upset, and reflux felt during discontinuation.

 

Please don't focus on the 6-8 week point because it's a future that may not arrive. But on the other hand it could arrive sooner. Just go day-to-day and find distractions to take your brain away from self-analysis and self-criticism. Learn a new skill; get outside often; find someone in need and help them-- your compassion will cause your own spirit to rise.

 

Look into Mindfulness.

 

Take care Pups.

[Pups4Life]

Well, I was hoping to be able to report some sort of improvement, but nope.  I can't believe how ill I feel...it was like this for the first week and then got better and WHAM, back at it.  I can't eat (absolutely no appetite) and when I do eat, I feel sick to my stomach.  I'm on a course of antibiotics right now in prep for a dental procedure, but I've never been sick from them before.  Also, my energy is in the toilet...I'm too tired to think, too tired to cry and it makes working really hard.  Thankfully, I only work a few hours a day, but my job is physical in nature.  I'm feeling pretty afraid of all of this...how much worse can it get?  (Please don't actually answer that...I don't want to know).  I live alone (with my two dogs) and while I have friends and a sister who are supportive, I'm feeling pretty alone as this is my journey and mine alone and they all have lives of their own.  My head goes a mile a minute right now.   I'm considering going back to the doctor and asking for something to take me out of this hell....but I really, really don't want to be back on any of these kinds of drugs.   

[fishinghat]

P4L, the good times don't last long at first but slowly and surely they get longer and more frequent. One thing that helps is not to push yourself too hard on the bad days. That seems to only make the bad days last longer. Patience.

[TryinginFL]

Hey Pups,

 

I can certainly understand what you're going through.  I, too, live with 2 dogs only - my 2 sons live on the west coast and I am alone.  This is not an easy thing to go through without another human for support, but you can do it!  Just remember that if you are irritable or can't say anything nice, the dogs will still love you unconditionally!  I feel badly for the times I hollered at mine...  another person can never understand what is happening with you since they have never experienced it.

 

The withdrawal/discontinuation is a cyclic thing - symptoms disappear and then reappear again, but for a shorter time..   It's just the nature of the beast.  I didn't have any energy for months, and even now it only appears occasionally.  I admire your being able to work at all.  Many have had to take a leave or even quit their jobs in order to get through this nightmare.

 

The no appetite thing is also common - I still (after over a year) don't have much of one, but it's OK with me - I try to eat well, but not very much.  It has also helped to lose the weight I gained while on this poison.

 

You do have the option of going on Prozac or Zoloft - some have done this to help them through this, but bear in mind that it can take several weeks for these to upload in your system and then you will have that to get off of, though much easier than this crap drug.

 

I took/take Alprazolam (Xanax) as my anxiety went through the roof at times and now use it mainly for the sleep issues that still plague me.  Some don't want to use any benzos, in which case they have used Benadryl or Robitussin.  I never used either, so can't speak for their effectiveness.  My anxiety is gone now for the most part but was a real bear to deal with for a couple of months.

 

Please ask whatever you need to - we will try to help!  I wish you the best and try to keep your mind occupied with something - even a mindless movie can help!

 

Liz

[Pups4Life]

Thanks for words of encouragement, Liz.  I had a huge meltdown with my sister on the phone today....I just don't know how I'm going to get through this.  I can't think straight and my mind races a mile a minute with horribly negative thoughts and overwhelming anxiety, shivers and shakes and all the flu-like symptoms.  It's an understatement to say that I'm feeling afraid.  My fear is that I'm going crazy, will lose control and am going to get locked up.  Is this other people's fears too?  I'm not sure how I'm going to keep working...I guess it's a one day at a time thing.  When all this anxiety/depression started, I had to take time off work.  I ended up being off work for a year and when I thought I was ready to go back (I really wasn't) I no longer had a job.  So, I clean houses now in order to pay the bills.  It's not something I enjoy doing, but I'm grateful that I CAN do it and don't have to work many hours to be paid quite well...I see it as a stepping stone.  My doc doesn't want me to try Prozac because I'm so sensitive to meds (can't tolerate most of these drugs) and the half life of Prozac is so long...and I don't want to take that risk either.  I'm avoiding Ativan unless absolutely necessary (haven't used it in three days) as I don't want to withdraw off of that either.  

I'm just curious...did the rest of you on this post feel Cymbalta helped you at all?  When I went on it I felt stoned most of the time (the fatigue never went away) and always told my doctor that I felt it created big dips in depression.  Just when I thought I was starting to feel a tiny bit better, CRASH and I'd be hit with horrible depression.  At Christmas the depression was so bad (could be just cuz that's a hard time of year for me) so my doc agreed to try something else as the Cymbalta just never seemed to help.  What about waking up each morning with that overwhelming dread...dread of having to endure another day.  (This isn't new from withdrawal...but it's something I felt most of the time I was on Cymbalta)  Why I ask this is, I'm feeling so incredibly frustrated that I've fought this anxiety and depression for over 2 years without much relief and now coming off the meds has made things even worse.  I never thought life could be this hard and all I want is to just live a normal life once again, without always being aware of my thoughts and feelings.  

Sorry if I'm sounding whiny....I'm just needing a place to vent...and, well, I'm feeling pretty whiny.