43 replies to this topic

[Pups4Life]

Well, today is a new day and so far it's a bit better.  I cancelled all my plans today in order to take the day to rest and sleep as much as possible...I'm not sleeping much at night.  I took some Benadryl early this morning and it seemed to help.  It seems like I wake up feeling alright, but then the thoughts start and whammo, anxiety hits.  Is this common?  This is where I get frustrated because it's like my own thoughts are causing the angst and I want to be able to control the thoughts.  Someone sent me a link yesterday for a book call "The Road Back"....written specifically for getting off psychoactive drugs and supplements to use along the way.  I've sent a message to the author and hoping to hear back soon.  I'm horrified at what I've read about the affect these drugs have on the body and how so many people are put on them, when their symptoms are really signals of other things that need to be addressed such as nutrition, toxicity in the body, psychological issues, etc.  This was certainly the case with me...was put on them when my mom passed away as a way of managing my grief.  Gosh, if only I'd known then what I know now....but I didn't, and there's certainly no sense in beating myself up about it, but I hope that I can help even one person with my experience and keep them from walking down this road.  

[TryinginFL]

Hey Pups,

 

A word about that book - if I am correct, this a Church of Scientology publication, and I wouldn't touch it, but that is my choice.  Just an FYI.

 

I am very much like you, as I was given this poison drug after I lost my daughter and never asked nor researched...at that point I just took what my PCP gave me.  I wish I had known, too!

 

Just as a bit of reassurance - everything you are experiencing is typical withdrawal - many of us have been there! You will be OK!  Just hang in there and keep posting to let us know of your progress!!   

[Pups4Life]

Oh Liz...thanks for telling me that...I will stay far away from it then!  Damn!  I'm so very sorry to hear about the loss of your daughter...I can't imagine how hard that must be...hugs!

Thanks for the reassurance...I really need that right now as I feel so alone and my fear is that maybe I'm just crazy and this won't end!  I just went out to run some errands and I feel so out of it...it's hard to see everyone one else carrying on with normal life and I'm fighting and struggling to merely survive the days...this isn't a new feeling either, I've felt that way since this journey began, but it's just stronger right now.  I might need daily reminders that I'll be OK...I just can't see it right now.  And then there's the whole wondering if I'm just creating all of this because of my thoughts.....

[xman]

P4L You do not sound whiny. Good that you are here. There are some great,  smart ppl here that keep us going and remind us this too shall pass...

[thismoment]

Hi Pups

 

TFL is right. The Road Back is a proselytizing pack of fast-talking, money-counting scam artists selling supplements found at any pharmacy or Walmart.

 

Nobody can control their thoughts, and nobody authors their thoughts-- thoughts simply arise in your brain and emerge into consciousness. No magic. If we  authored your thoughts, that would mean we think them before we think them.

 

The character of your thoughts is based upon the state of your brain, which in the case of those in withdrawal and discontinuation-- is struggling to self-regulate, self-repair, and self-stabilize by trial and error-- your brain has no blueprint for this repair. Thoughts are therefore out-of-the-norm! In time it will find equilibrium and your thoughts will settle down and become less spooky, even mundane.

 

How do I know? I was there.

 

You are not creating this. The drugs physically re-arranged your brain and the daily dose contributed to how your brain functioned. But now the drug is gone and your brain is working hard to re-arrange itself to function in the absence of the drug-- it's struggling to find equilibrium, and in time it will get there. Don't worry.

 

You bear no guilt. No fault. It is the way it is and you can only go forward. It's going to be alright!

 

Take care my dear.

[Pups4Life]

Wow...I am a bawling mess...to think that you people who don't even know me, can offer so many kind words and encouragement.  Thismoment, thank you for sharing your wisdom.  I've been told over and over how I need to stop thinking so negatively and I feel like I constantly fail.  This has been a big part of my battle with depression and anxiety, and it leads to me beating myself up for thinking the way I do...and telling myself that if I only had the courage, strength or right attitude to change my thoughts, I could change my situation.  Isn't that what CBT is all about?  I know my journey is allowing myself to feel and release a lot of old emotions from old hurts, and it seems the drugs got in the way of that.  Didn't mean there wasn't lots of sadness and tears, just that they didn't allow it to release.  Does that make sense?  

Today has been a day of hating myself, hating life and not seeing an end in sight....and then being upset with myself for not having a better attitude towards all of this.  What it comes down to is fear...and I struggle to trust that what others are telling me is so...I've had too many doctors and therapists etc all tell me that if I followed their advice, I'd be well....and so far nothing has worked.  That leads me to wonder what the heck is wrong with me...cuz after all this time, I'm still struggling.  Growing up in a faith filled family and community, this has rocked my world and my faith in a way that I don't know what to believe.  I have watched people close to me fight and lose the battle of cancer and while it was excruciating to helplessly see them suffer and then pass away, going through that loss was a cake walk compared to this journey.  Never in a million years did I think life could get so dark and hard.  Sigh...clearly I need a nap!

[thismoment]

Pups

 

You said, ". . . if I only had the courage, strength or right attitude to change my thoughts, I could change my situation. Isn't that what CBT is all about?" 

 

Yes and no. CBT is about solving problems in the moment, but there isn't a fixed protocol or algorithm (first this, then this, then this). There are many examples of how you must first alter the situation in order change the thoughts. Thereafter, the thoughts affect the future situations. Let me give you an example.

 

Basketball-- You are depressed with self-criticizing thoughts because you are unsuccessful at shooting foul shots-- you only sink 1 in 5 (20%). How can you elevate your mood? You still love basketball, but the thought of having to shoot a foul shot in a game makes you anxious and depressed. You've heard the expression "practice makes perfect" so you decide to practice just foul shots for a week. You shoot 1000 foul shots over the week. You now consistently sink 3 out of 5 (60%)-- a huge improvement!! Your mood is a little lighter!

 

You altered the situation and that altered the thoughts! Now the new thoughts can alter upcoming situations. 

 

Having a coach, or having a conversation with a wise person can have the same effect: you actually have to get busy at the "doing" to alter the default thinking.

[Pups4Life]

Thanks TM...that does make sense and takes a bit of the pressure off. I struggle to just be gentle and not judge the feelings and thoughts coming up...was this something you struggled with as well? I've been told that judging our feelings keeps them stuck...my work is to not judge them...and it's not going too smoothly right now.

[TryinginFL]

Pups,

 

One of the best things I can tell you, and the hardest it is to do...  remember to be kind to yourself!!

 

Liz

[Pups4Life]

You're right Liz...hardest to do yet most needed.

[thismoment]

Pups

 

Non-judgement of our own thoughts is the first tenet of Mindfulness.

 

Judging something that is beyond our control is counterproductive and hobbling. The act of judging is the act of 'practicing'-- same as shooting all those foul shots. After a while we get good at it and it becomes the default mind state. When it becomes the default mind state, judging is ALL we can do.

 

We become what we pay attention to.

 

Yes, it was something I struggled with a lot. I read a lot of neuroscience material and eventually became convinced that I don't author my thoughts, so how can I possibly judge them? Thoughts fairly directly reflect mind-state, so therefore one must ask, "How can I alter my mind-state?" Well, drugs do that-- beer does that-- and for a while we can have happy thoughts. Other behaviours besides drugs alter the mind-state for longer periods-- exercise, compassionate volunteering, dieting, cleaning out the garage, taking a course, learning to sail, taking a wilderness survival course-- and the altered mind-state alters the content of the thoughts.

 

What helped me most was learning that every event-- including thoughts-- are the result of prior causes-- your personal history. Some of those prior causes may be readily identified, but most of them can not be recalled  or analysed. We live in a world of cause-and-effect. Even the things you have chosen in the past are the result of prior causes, and while some of those choices proved to be bad choices, you didn't author the choice. You aren't guilty for having made the choice.

 

While we don't author thoughts and the choices we make, we are responsible for the consequences of the choices.

[Pups4Life]

TM...where have you been the last 2 years?? I've never had anyone explain it to me like that...or maybe I just never heard it. My thoughts are pretty negative about myself...I guess I've equated negative thoughts about self to equal negative truths about myself. Bad thoughts = bad person. I've carried so much shame for being depressed and anxious...I've always been the strong one, who's there for people with acts of service or words of encouragement. While I can still encourage others, I've been so debilitated by this that being physically able to help others hasn't been possible as much. It's been hard to reach out and ask for help and acknowledge that I'm struggling...for fear of being a burden to others and that all boils down to my own lack of self love, and feelings of undeserving. While I understand the root of those things, I've really struggled to change them. Done a ton of therapy and everyone tells me to change the thoughts which will then change the feelings. That's where I struggle...to change the thoughts. Or at least add some positive ones. When you say that meds affect the brain and the thoughts, maybe this is why I've struggled so much. I know that I want to keep these meds out of my system and do the work that I need to do in order to heal and become whole....it just seems pretty daunting from my viewpoint today. Wow...I think I just rambled and not sure if all that's making sense. You seem like a wise soul and I'm guessing you understand where I'm coming from. Did others on here come off Cymbalta cuz it was time or were they too, just never feeling well on it and unhappy with it's efficacy?

[Pups4Life]

I saw a Haikomi therapist who taught me an exercise about picturing myself sitting by a flowing river. When negative thoughts come along, to imagine them floating by in the river, not taking ownership of them. That has stuck with me...sometimes I can do that however right now there's too many thoughts coming at me. Thoughts?

[thismoment]

Pups

 

"Did others on here come off Cymbalta cuz it was time or were they too, just never feeling well on it and unhappy with it's efficacy?"

 

Yes, all of that-- and due to pregnancy, or flat-lined emotions, or Cymbalta pooped out, or insurance ran out, and other reasons.

 

"That's where I struggle...to change the thoughts. Or at least add some positive ones." To change the thoughts (to more positive ones) you need to change what you are practicing. Change the activity to something that gives you positive feedback, something you love to do, and the thoughts will change as a result. Happiness manufactures happiness. You need to win a few, which boosts your confidence and fosters your dignity.

 

Someone once described the source of happiness this way: It's doing something-- could be anything-- to the best of your ability and to a standard that you consider worthy. That's all there is to it. That could be painting the ceiling of the Sistine Chapel or cleaning out the basement. Do it right-- cut no corners-- and happiness will follow. 

 

"When negative thoughts come along, to imagine them floating by in the river, not taking ownership of them." I believe this can work and it's a technique worth keeping in your toolbox-- it involves not judging. You simply observe the thought but you don't get caught up in the storyline-- because you know what the storyline is: it's all about the bad things you've done in the past, and how you will do similar bad things in the future. We all know that storyline.

 

I actually found it most beneficial to acknowledge the thoughts-- they're here anyway. Make them a cup of tea, welcome them in. They won't be here forever because after tea you have work to do that will engage you and distract your attention. The activity should be both mental and physical, and it will occupy a lot of mental bandwidth and physical action; there won't be much room for other thoughts.

 

Soon you will look up at the metaphorical shelf you've just carefully repaired, cleaned, and polished-- and there will be a couple of new thoughts perched atop the gleaming mantle-- a strong, stable, and loving thought alongside another that is open and caring and compassionate.

 

Take care.