14 replies to this topic

[gettingoffpoison]

I haven’t been able to reduce these last beads, right now I´m on 22 but I started to feel depressed and anxious at 10. I find this very interesting…such a small difference.

 

I have been thinking about what happened to people before the existence of these drugs.

 

What is the natural function of being depressed? I guess it’s a natural way to preserve energy in a situation when one feels frustrated. When an organism faces a hazard from it can’t run away or fight. You know... "lay low", "play dead".

 

This is very interesting to meditate, about “that” which we perceive is above our ability to cope with.

 

Before these drugs, what was the natural evolution of depression?

 

This way in which we humans live is so unnatural...

[TryinginFL]

Hi, gop!

 

It's been a while since you've visited - good to hear from you!

 

You raise an interesting question...   When I was much younger (a child) I don't remember ever hearing of depression.  Perhaps my family wasn't exposed to it or maybe there was so much less stress back then.  I tend to believe this as there was no frantic working til all hours, fighting traffic,  all of this miserable technology, etc. and life was, in general, good!  How wonderful it would be to go back to those times!

 

I'm sorry that you are experiencing some difficulties - how long is it now that you have been tapering?  If needed, do you have anything for the anxiety?  The anxiety tends to feed the depression - at least it did in my case.

 

When you are feeling stable, do you think that you could reduce by one bead a day?  We have a member who had to do this and she has been off the crap for a long time now.  Please remember that this is not a race - it takes as long as it takes as long as you keep yourself comfortable.  

 

Hang in there, and please keep us updated!

[gail]

GOF,

Very interesting subject, very.

When you say, that which we percieve is above our ability to cope with. I can relate to this in a way I cannot describe.

Above our ability to cope with, for myself, this is when all started.
I still have those moments, and then anxiety or depression sets in.
Then it stabilizes till the next time that something happens that is above my ability to cope with. I repeat your phrase often, it touches me.

How did people manage before? I guess that with 10 children to raise, they did not have time to linger over this. They kept so occupied. No time to think or reflect on their condition. Just saying.

Looking forward for replies to your topic. Thanks! You gave me something to reflect upon.

[lady2882Nancy]

Hey there gettingoffpoison

Some interesting thoughts you have.

 

I have a friend who is 82 years old and her husband suffered from depression. I have asked her some of these questions hoping for some insight as to help me deal with my depression as he was never treated but successfully lived his life. The qualifier there was that she was behind him every step of the way.

She says "Well it was my job to cheer him up and when things were really bad I would get out there and help him with his chores" (they were a farming family). As long as she could get him moving then he would get out of his funk. In the winter was hard as we have so much snow and short daylight hours (I live in the north part of the Canadian prairies).

I have been completely off the crap for 2 1/2 years now and the depression is the hardest part. My pdoc will not put me on any ssri or snri antidepressants, not that I would take them anyway, and I struggle with day to day living. I told my therapist the other day that if I have no life then what's the point of living. She didn't take that very well and basically told me to stop thinking about my illness and concentrate on what I am good at. She makes it sound easy but when you wake up in the morning feeling like you can barely drag yourself out of bed you know it isn't easy at all.

 

I think the natural evolution of depression is that it is waves. Sometimes you feel fine and sometimes you don't. Those who get the worst depression sometimes don't make it (I have known too many of those).  

 

I like your comment --about "that" which we perceive is above our ability to cope with.

I too can so relate to this as I have had a number of things happen in my life which felt like they were above my ability to cope with

-the loss of my grandmother when I was 15

-the breakdown of my marriage

-the loss of my mother who was also my best friend

-the loss of my daughter who was my only child

-the mental anguish I went through when rapidly tapering off the crap to keep me from taking my own life 

 

I guess the old saying is true "What doesn't kill you, makes you stronger"

I don't feel stronger but I have survived so far although sometimes it doesn't feel like much of a life.

 

Take care of you and be well

 

Nancy

[gettingoffpoison]

You know, I was reducing fine; I even stopped smoking cigarettes (I got back one week ago). The problem (this “going backwards”) started to develop when I got back to circumstances similar to when I started taking the antidepressant (my perceived secure zone) three months ago. I went away and I was feeling better, but now I have the hypothesis, yes, I was feeling better getting away but I wasn’t facing the root cause, my true psychological reality. This is what I mean by “that” which we perceive is above our ability to cope with.

 

The impressive thing for me is recognizing so much pain, but not been able to see.

 

You know hinduism talks about the concept of “samsara”, a cyclical existence, living the same things over and over. Jung said, “Until you make the unconscious conscious, it will direct your life and you will call it fate (or destiny).”

 

The thing I realized lately, which I find very valuable, is that I didn’t want to face my reality, because it scared me so much. But by not facing it I also became paralyzed. How could I “fight” what I didn’t want to see? What I couldn’t see…

 

I think this “going backwards” was also a step, I feel scared to face my life, to move. But not moving is killing me.  Just a personal experience to share, I feel lonely also.

 

I think we really have to make an effort to humanize again in this dehumanized world. I guess it’s the same thing you are talking about Trying, all this progress, all this speed, all this technology, and yet, it seem we suffer more.

 

Big hug to you all, stay human, stay tough!

 

(Dream analysis helped a little to see “that”)

[gettingoffpoison]

... I still don’t know "what” to do and it scares me, but also what I feel now its not only fear and confusion, there is also a little feeling of enthusiasm, a little light inside, surrounded by this darkness.

[thomasbhunter]

Personally, depression has been an issue of brain chemistry, not external influences. Nature, not nurture. I was always an introvert, from the time I could walk and choose what I did as a human. But, I've never had anything to really be depressed about from a external factors perspective, at least nothing out of the ordinary for anyone going through life. I found I simply, slowly, became depressed in 1989, and it never left. No CBT or therapy or anything made any difference. The only things that alleviated my moods were chemicals that played with my brain chemistry. Unfortunately, the first major one was wine - that works great in improving your mood...for a couple hours. But, it's deceptively tempting and ultimately one of the worst things you can do if you're already depressed. Long term, it's horrific - I was an alcoholic for about five years, and functioned quite well for four of them. The fifth year... wow. Depression on a level I'd never experienced. Rehabs and going sober turned it around. My brain chemistry finally adapted back to the depression levels I had before drinking. Nowadays, I have to admit, when prescribed opiates, I consider that a short term vacation for my depression. The opiate boosts my mood, again, only for the short term - and the brain always adjusts for that high, and you will have to take the fall at some point. But, my brain chemistry definitely changed when I hit my early 20s. And I never had any major life issues that were abnormal, devastating, etc. For me, that's the issue. I have a great life in all other apsects. Great job, good pay, money in the bank, own a home, car, etc...  But, the depression keeps me from enjoying any of it. All I want to do is stay home, by myself, hop on Facebook, and the Internet, and for everyone to just leave me alone. And Cymbalta made it Hell when I was on it, and getting off it, of only for the short time I experienced it recently. Today, actually, is my first day of no brain zaps.

[fishinghat]

Hi tbh.

 

The last time I looked there have been 6 genes located that can cause depression directly. There may be more now. Having said that, there is no way to correct the genes so you learn to adapt and medicate.

[thomasbhunter]

Yes - and heredity is also a factor. I know in my family my grandmother had clinical depression, my grandfather (on my dad's side) commited suicide from depression, my dad has it (though mildly, and he "treats it" with a couple cocktails every night, or more - seems to work for him somehow). And I've certainly got it   I still hold out hope for exercise, vitamins, fish oil, and SAM-e. That combo actually worked for me for a few years. But, then it stopped and I slid back into this. I have an appt with an addiction psychiatrist on Friday - I'm interested to hear his thoughts on addictive behavior (substances) and depression. I'm not too hopeful, as my experience with psychs is they always seem to listen patiently for 45 minutes so they can write a script. That, or I know more than they do (and they don't like that) and when I ask about natural treatments, they seem oblivious, except for exercise - all of them seem to agree exercise is a must. Dopamine, wherefore art thou?

[gail]

Hi tbh.
 
The last time I looked there have been 6 genes located that can cause depression directly. There may be more now. Having said that, there is no way to correct the genes so you learn to adapt and medicate.

Fisherman, you say 6 genes maybe more that can cause depression directly.

Would you say the same for anxiety, the kind that comes and goes, not necessarily due to external events?

[fishinghat]

Hi Gail

 

There have been 9 genes identified that relate to anxiety. Most make the individual more vulnerable to developing anxiety but a couple are suspected to directly cause this condition. There are only a handful of pdocs that do genetic screening but so little is known about the exact function of each gene (produced serotonin transporter or other biological function). If it is determined it is gene related anxiety then the dr can assume that some level of medication will be needed to treat the individual for the extent of their life.

 

More is known about the depression genes and much has been written about dna profiling in an effort to determine the most effective drug therapy for the individual. This is a new approach that is still in it's infancy and much needs to be done to make it an efficient and consistent process. It should NOT be confused with other drs who do blood samples to determine neurotransmitter and transporter levels to determine the best medication to use. This second method only guides the dr in the general direction of what medicines to try. There are so many tings (including neurological diseases) that can affect the level of these transmitters and transporters that it can be a very complicated and misleading approach. 

 

I think with time this will become a standard approach to treating these two conditions rather then just relying on the educated guess of the dr.  We still have  a long way to go though before it is consistently effective.

[fishinghat]

Hey Gail, here are some summary articles on the subjects. They really reflect the complexity of the issue.

http://www.ncbi.nlm....les/PMC3285424/
Genetic Testing in Psychiatry: A Review of Attitudes and Beliefs

https://www.psycholo...ssion-treatment

http://onlinelibrary....20251/abstract
Genetic screening for SSRI drug response among those with major depression: great promise and unseen perils

http://www.psychiatr...iatric-practice
Genetic Testing for Psychiatric Disorders: Its Current Role in Clinical Psychiatric Practice

[gail]

Thanks Fisherman for the above.

Real interesting for the first post, with read the other later.

Something snapped, really snapped when you said yesterday, medicate and adapt. That threw me and got me thinking about the last 10 years
when it started with a few days here and there. Many things to think about here. Thank you again.

[fishinghat]

your welcome Gail.

 

It takes time to adapt (therapy techniques, social changes, etc). For most medication is the first line of treatment until they learn to control there anxiety, depression, etc.

[gail]

Fisherman,

I would rather say until you adapt to it or accept it as being a part of your life. When this grabs you out of nowhere, and for years,it brings by itself social changes. Therapy techniques, I had during withdrawal. A blessing!