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I Weaned Down(90Mg-30Mg), Felt Great, Than Upped Dosage, Now Struggling With Insomnia


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#1 ChrisHennessy

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Posted 27 February 2016 - 12:48 PM

In late 2014, per the help of this awesome sight, I quickly weaned down from 90mg per day (had been at this dosage for 7 years) to 30mg per day(in about 8-10 weeks) with little or no side effects.  I stayed at 30mg from Jan 2016 to July 2016, and felt great.  Than in July I tried to beed count down from 30mg, got to the point where I felt horrible, so I went back up to 30mg, felt great again, and figured I'd stay there as long as I wanted....  

 

My dad got very ill in nov 2016, and I was so upset I began feeling high anxiety, and upped cymbalta to 60mg(late Nov 2016)...  The bad anxiety lasted about two weeks and went away. (I don't think it was the cxymbalta that helped)  

In Jan dad died, and I struggled with intermittent insomnia and upped cymbalta back to 90mg.   OYE! This gave me a horrible chemical reaction in my body, waves of horrendously negative electricity, and horribly bad feelings etc, I never felt so horrendous in my life, and sleeping was very difficult.   After about 9 days I went cold turkey from 90mg back to 60mg, and those horrible symptoms went away immediately!

 

I'm still getting intermittent periods of insomnia which really sucks, I've never had it before....  I believe the stress of dad's death triggered this, but I'm wondering if getting back down to 30mg of Cymbalta would actually help my current insomnia issue.  Tomorrow I'm gonna start beed counting down to 30mg, I was feeling SOOO good at that dosage, and it'll take a month at most to wean down to that.....    Any thoughts/suggestions would REALLY be appreciated!! 


#2 gail

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Posted 27 February 2016 - 05:16 PM

Welcome back Chris,

I am sorry that you went through so much. If I understand right, you are on sixty and felt pretty good on 30. And you wish to bead count to 30.

My thought is that you could try going straight to 30mg. Some do without any symptoms.

Up to you my dear, that dosage was perfect for you. So I would do it this way and see. Don't bead count unless you are real stable on 30.

Keep us posted, quiet today on the forum, definitely this is what I would do since you were just a short while on the higher dose. On that, keep strong!

#3 ChrisHennessy

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Posted 28 February 2016 - 04:58 PM

Thanks SOOO much for welcoming me back, although it's not great to be back :)  ya know?

 

you said, "Don't bead count unless you are real stable on 30."  I know you're telling me to go from 60mg right down to 30, without bead counting, but I'n not sure what you meant by that explanation....  Sounds good, cause like I said, I went right from 90 to 60, and it was nothing but a huge positive........  But, why should I go right down to 30 w/o bead counting?  thanks so much


#4 fishinghat

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Posted 28 February 2016 - 05:09 PM

If you are not in a hurry I would go ahead and bead count from 60. The reason the suggestion to go ahead and drop to 30 is that many can handle that and stabilize in a couple weeks. But there are others that can't handle that drop very well. If you try to drop to 30 and it is too rough then you can go back up to 60 and bead count once stable. Just my thinking.....Bead count from 60. The less jumping around the better but it is up to you.


#5 ChrisHennessy

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Posted 28 February 2016 - 05:58 PM

Thanks so much God-like,

 

Well, each 30mg pill has 150 beads, so I took out 20 beads today and felt fine.   What I may try to do is drop 20 beads twice a week....  That worked before...  That's minus 40 beads a week, and I'll be back down to 30mg in a month.  

 

HOWEVER, it sounds VERY TEMPTING to just take one 30mg tomorrow and see how I feel, and be done with it (If I don't get side effects)  

 What do Ya'll think?


#6 gail

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Posted 01 March 2016 - 08:25 PM

Hi Chris,

I had lost you in the forum since you had posted in another place.

What have you decided? Straight to 30?

#7 ChrisHennessy

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Posted 03 March 2016 - 01:23 PM

Hi Chris,

I had lost you in the forum since you had posted in another place.

What have you decided? Straight to 30?

Gail,

 

I followed your advice, since I've got insomnia and was in somewhat of a hurry.  Today was a bout my 5th day having gone straight down to 30mg from 60.  No withdrawals as I anticipated.  The first couple days the rapid heartbeat and heart thumping when I lay down at night went away, and I slept adequate !  Last night the heart thumping thing came back when I laid down and I didn't sleep well.   is my body gotta get used to 30mg again, will this horrible insomnia go away?  Any help you could offer is appreciated.  Insomnia is the WORST!


#8 gail

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Posted 03 March 2016 - 01:38 PM

Hi again Chris,

I think that you will do good on the 30mg.

For that insomnia, over the counter Benadryl tablets, extra strenght should help you during this temporary pass. Works quite good. Should it be the first time that you try this, don't drive. Works pretty good on anxiety also.

You will be fine, as Fishinghat often mentions, Time and patience here. Keep us posted!

#9 ChrisHennessy

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Posted 03 March 2016 - 02:24 PM

Hi again Chris,

I think that you will do good on the 30mg.

For that insomnia, over the counter Benadryl tablets, extra strenght should help you during this temporary pass. Works quite good. Should it be the first time that you try this, don't drive. Works pretty good on anxiety also.

You will be fine, as Fishinghat often mentions, Time and patience here. Keep us posted!

do you think it's the cymbalta 6omg that was causing the insomnia?  would it be typical for the insomnia to gradually go AWAY?  IS THERE ANYWHERE ELSE OR ANYONE I CAN FUTRHER DISCUSS THGIS WITH, OR SHOULD I BOTGER?  Thanks sooo much


#10 gail

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Posted 03 March 2016 - 02:52 PM

I would say yes to that. My opinion.

Fishinghat, are you there?

#11 ChrisHennessy

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Posted 03 March 2016 - 04:36 PM

I would say yes to that. My opinion.

Fishinghat, are you there?

Thanks Gail.  Hey Fishinghat where the heck are you!!


#12 fishinghat

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Posted 03 March 2016 - 05:50 PM

Sorry Guys. I have the flu and I am a little slow right now.

 

The insomnia really makes things worse. Gail is right, my first try would be 50 mg of Benadryl about an hour before bedtime. Another thing you can try is melatonin. This is available over the counter. It is the natural sleepiness drug the brain makes in the evening. You can try both at the same time but I would recommend one at a time so you can tell what will work and what won't. I have some more info on sleep aides I will post in a few minutes.

 

Also the heartpounding and rapid pulse is some of the first symptoms of withdrawal for many so I wouldn't consider another drop until things settle.


#13 fishinghat

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Posted 03 March 2016 - 05:59 PM


There is a new sleep aide out called Somnapure.

It is flying off the shelfs and being hailed as a wonder cure for insomnia. BUT.....

As you can see the ingredients are listed below;



Supplement Facts
Serving Size: 2 Tablets
Servings Per Container: 30

Valerian (Valeriana Officinalis) Root Extract 500 mg*

Lemon Balm Extract Leaf 300 mg*

L Threonine 200 mg*

Hops Extract Strobile 120 mg*

Chamomile Flower Extract 50 mg*

Passion Flower Extract Aerial 50 mg*

Melatonin 3 mg*

* Daily Value not established.
'

All of these ingredients have strong drug interactions and/or side effects except for melatonin. There has been a rash of people landing in the hospital for reactions to this med, especially if they are on antidepressants. Use with caution.


#14 ChrisHennessy

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Posted 03 March 2016 - 06:02 PM

Sorry Guys. I have the flu and I am a little slow right now.

 

The insomnia really makes things worse. Gail is right, my first try would be 50 mg of Benadryl about an hour before bedtime. Another thing you can try is melatonin. This is available over the counter. It is the natural sleepiness drug the brain makes in the evening. You can try both at the same time but I would recommend one at a time so you can tell what will work and what won't. I have some more info on sleep aides I will post in a few minutes.

 

Also the heartpounding and rapid pulse is some of the first symptoms of withdrawal for many so I wouldn't consider another drop until things settle.

I'm not planning any reduction from 30mg for the long term.  I first need to get rid of insomnia...  Do you think the insomnia may have been due to the fact that I upped Cymbalta from 30mg - 90mg in Nov and Jan?  And if you read the first thread, I had horrible reactions at 90mg(my old dose!) and as soon as I cold-turkeyed down from 90 to 60mg a couple weeks ago, the horrible symptoms went away.  So I was good for a year on 30mg, and no that I';m back down there, how long may it be before my system goes back to normal?  Do you think the insomnia is triggered by when I upped the Cymbalta?  thanks so much I really appreciate your effort and I hope you feel better soon


#15 fishinghat

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Posted 03 March 2016 - 07:01 PM

Well Chris it is possible. That reaction is known to occur. Unluckily the only way to find out is to wait and see if the insomnia fades away. It usually takes about 2 or 3 weeks to fully stabilize after returning to a dose (such as the 30 mg). Hopefully you will notice some improvements in the next week. Hang in there.


#16 ChrisHennessy

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Posted 03 March 2016 - 10:17 PM

what about the sleep aids the docs prescribe like ativan?  low dosage?   I'm headed right now yo get Benadryl  God-Like thanks much


#17 fishinghat

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Posted 04 March 2016 - 08:56 AM

Ativan is a benzo. Good anxiety treatment as well as sleep aide. Very addictive, bad withdrawal and is to be used for no more than 4 months due to dependence and tolerance. Benzos can make you feel a lot better but they come at a steep price.


#18 ChrisHennessy

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Posted 04 March 2016 - 02:33 PM

Hey God-Like.........

Thanks for the Benzo advice.  I've used it couple times a week at most.....

GOOD NEWS!  I've slept well two of the last three nights with NO DRUGS OR SLEEP AIDS!!!!!!

I did buy the Benadryl, but when winding down last night I didn't have rapid heartbeat or the thumping,

so I laid down and has a fairly close to normal sleep last night.  I will cross my fingers, hope and pray 

that this is the beginning and the end of Insomnia.

...... The medical professions says this started because Of the recent passing of my dad, and I agree!  But, at the same time I also

stupidly upped my Cymbalta from 30 to 60, than a month later from 60 back to my original(pre-weaning) 90, and I'm really thinking that the reason I'm feeling better is cause I went from 90 to 60, and per your advice, 60 back to 30 without beed counting.  freaking Cymbalta, wish I knew what I know know before I started taking this sh--           Thanks SO MUCH FOR YOUR HELP AND SUPPORT, SO VERY APPRECIATED 


#19 ChrisHennessy

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Posted 06 March 2016 - 05:45 PM

Ativan is a benzo. Good anxiety treatment as well as sleep aide. Very addictive, bad withdrawal and is to be used for no more than 4 months due to dependence and tolerance. Benzos can make you feel a lot better but they come at a steep price.

Hey it'll be a week tomorrow since I went from 60mg to 30mg....  Just a couple days before that I did something I've never done... At bedtime I realized I'd forgotten to take my cymbalta, so I missed a day.  How does that affect you?


#20 fishinghat

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Posted 06 March 2016 - 07:20 PM

You know Chris that is an interesting question. We have had this happen to quite a few of our members. Some notice no effect and the others go into a tailspin within 24 hours and it takes them several days to settle down after they miss a day. This is some crazy medicine. Some are so much more sensitive then others even over a small drop. We had one member that wound up dropping one bead a day for nearly a year before she finally made it. Even at that slow rate it was a battle.  You just never know.


#21 ChrisHennessy

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Posted 13 March 2016 - 02:11 PM

After being at 30mg for a year, down from 90mg, I upped the dosage when my dad dies to 60mg, than a month later upped it to 90mg because I started to have anxiety and some sleepless nights.

Please note that at 30mg I felt great, and there was little or no side effects from quickly bead counting down from 90mg to 30mg

Long story short, after about a week on 90mg, I started feeling horrible waves of electric-negativity passing through my body. It was a horrible few days.  I decided to cold turkey back down from 90mg to 60mg, and those symptoms went away immediately.

 

Everything was great for a week, I even slept fine, but after that week the insomnia returned.  Two weeks ago I cold turkey'd from 60mg to 30mg, thinking that the cymbalta might be causing the insomnia...

 

I'm still struggling with the insomnia it's brutal, and I am feeling depression in the am, making it difficult to get out of bed...

No other side effects from the wean-down....  except as soon as I lay down most nights I typically feel my heart throbbing (beating harder and louder)

 

Should I hang in their at 30mg and hope I stabilize?  Or go back to 60mg?

 

Any advice on the type of dr/medical professional I could see for help?


#22 fishinghat

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Posted 14 March 2016 - 12:30 PM

This is your second time to drop down from 90 mg and each time it gets more difficult. My opinion (for what it is worth0 is to go back to 60 until stable and then drop slower. Staying at 30 mg until stable would probably take several weeks. If you can handle that it is OK. Each person is different so it is a difficult decision.


#23 ChrisHennessy

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Posted 14 March 2016 - 11:23 PM

This is your second time to drop down from 90 mg and each time it gets more difficult. My opinion (for what it is worth0 is to go back to 60 until stable and then drop slower. Staying at 30 mg until stable would probably take several weeks. If you can handle that it is OK. Each person is different so it is a difficult decision.

If I could handle what?  Going back to 60?     Hmm, you really think that'll help?  


#24 fishinghat

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Posted 15 March 2016 - 08:33 AM

Sorry Chris. I was talking about staying at 30 mg would be OJ if you thought you could handle the withdrawal symptoms for several weeks.

 

Usually, when you are having bad withdrawal,  if you go back up a little on dosage it will bring some relief to the symptoms in a few days. The thing is the higher you go back up the more relief you get but then you have further to eventually drop back down. The key is to drop slow enough in the first place  so the withdrawal is not too bad..It is a very difficult balancing act, especially with each of us being different in how we react to this drug.


#25 ChrisHennessy

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Posted 15 March 2016 - 01:25 PM

I went back up to 60mg, even though I've heard it's not good to go up and down a lot.

But I've been feeling so very crummy......

 

The only thing about the insomnia, is I started experiencing it before I went from 60 to 30, so I'm not convinced that Cymbalta is causing the insomnia.

 But I do agree that feeling shitty and depressed all the time could very well have resulted from the sudden drop from 60 to 30mg  Hope I start feeling better, sleeping better....  I certainly will not try to beed-count-taper from 60mg to 30 for quite a while..... 

 

If anyone has further advice that might help I'd really appreciate it.  Are their doctors that specialize and know Cymbalta weaning in and out?  Sleep specialists   whatever, I'm desperate from a medical professional take take charge and be my consultant and bring me back to sleep


#26 fishinghat

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Posted 15 March 2016 - 02:46 PM

Well Chris in the beginning drs were trained by the manufacturers that there was no withdrawal for Cymbalta other than a couple days of cold like symptoms. After a few years it became clearer to a lot of patients that there was a serious withdrawal for many. After several law suits and a ruling by the FDA the manufacturer was forced to include a statement on the drug inserts that there was a serious "discontinuation syndrome" associated with Cymbalta. However the FDA did NOT required that physicians be retrained. Many still do not realize that the withdrawal exists but believe any return of symptoms is just the patients symptoms returning and they just need to go back on the Cymbalta. It is interesting that pain management drs quickly realized that these were withdrawal symptoms. There patients typically did not suffer from psych symptoms before going on the med but yet still suffered the withdrawal effects.


#27 gail

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Posted 12 April 2016 - 03:38 PM

Hello Chris,

How are you coping?

#28 emoothart

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Posted 05 July 2016 - 02:34 PM

I'm not planning any reduction from 30mg for the long term.  I first need to get rid of insomnia...  Do you think the insomnia may have been due to the fact that I upped Cymbalta from 30mg - 90mg in Nov and Jan?  And if you read the first thread, I had horrible reactions at 90mg(my old dose!) and as soon as I cold-turkeyed down from 90 to 60mg a couple weeks ago, the horrible symptoms went away.  So I was good for a year on 30mg, and no that I';m back down there, how long may it be before my system goes back to normal?  Do you think the insomnia is triggered by when I upped the Cymbalta?  thanks so much I really appreciate your effort and I hope you feel better soon

Hey Chris, I know this is from a few months back, but I wanted to mention that this is EXACTLY what happened to me when I upped my cymbalta dose.  Insane insomnia!  I'm working my way back down (currently at 60mg) and the insomnia is a thing of the past, although it took a few months to go away entirely.  

 

Emily





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