1636 replies to this topic

[fishinghat]

Anything you need let me know.

[ForLyla]

Well what do you guys advise I do? It's unlikely I'll go on any other meds to be honest. The options I want to take are either staying where I am or micro tapering down.

[ForLyla]

Well what do you guys advise I do? It's unlikely I'll go on any other meds to be honest. The options I want to take are either staying where I am or micro tapering down. My idea was to try staying where I am for another 2 months or so. If i dont feel better then perhaps I'll taper over the course of a couple years. I dont really like that option as it means I'll have to go through like 5 years of withdrawal before I can feel normal again. Even then, I'll probably be dead before I get to that point!

[fishinghat]

There is a thread in the Medical Support section called Summary of Cymbalta Withdrawal that may help you. It is a summary of what members have tried, medical research etc. Their are sections in that thread called how to raise your gaba, dopamine, endorphins etc. these are nutritional items that can help you bring your neurotransmitters into control. these may help you get stable with no side effects or issues down the road. Their is also a list of things to avoid if you are suffering depression or anxiety. This may help as well.

[ForLyla]

Thanks FH your posts are always very helpful. It's interesting, in the "benzo world", people are dead set against using any kind of supplements as most of them aggrevate symptoms. I think I've learned over the last two years that the most important things for dealing with withdrawal syndrome are keeping your insulin levels low and having continuous sleep through the night. If I stay awake for more than about an hour after waking, then my sleep cycle seems to hit the reset button and all hell breaks loose. This article on insulin matches up exactly with the lifestyle I've had to adopt to stay alive the last 2+ years. 

 

https://www.healthli...nsulin#section3

[fishinghat]

Interesting. Certainly I have never been very found of most supplements that I have tried for benzo withdrawals except the prescriptions of hydroxyzine and clonidine which help and of all the OTC supplements I have tried NAC has had a slight effect and the Lion's Mane Mushroom has had a pretty good effect as well BUT now my thyroid readings and wbc are off so I have stopped these last two to see if they recover. I will know in June and will post the results. Hydroxyzine has been used extensively for many years to treat benzo withdrawal. There have been probably a dozen or more other supplements I have tried and while I can say they didn't hlep I can't say they made it worse. Since Benzo Buddies and my drs turning me on to water titration benzo withdrawal is n t a problem anymore.

[ForLyla]

That's great FH! I started taking lots of tums for acid reflux I was having and now I've developed some painful kidney stones. I think the world is trying to tell me something when it comes to taking any kind of "medicine", even something that seems as benign as tums.

[invalidusername]

OTC remedies for consistent reflux is not a good idea. You need protein pump inhibitors if it is a permanent problem - but this would need to be diagnosed through a barium scan or upper GI.

[fishinghat]

It is funny you should mention tums. I make my own. I bought 100 gelatin capsules and 1 pound of food grade calcium carbonate (used to make beer) and make my own. No artificial colors, artificial sweeteners or artificial flavors. Luckily I don't need them often.
 
Kidney stones are mostly calcium oxalate salts not carbonate salts like many people think. Studies have shown that antacids do not contribute to kidney stones but there are a few studies that say they do contribute.  By the way it is common for people with kidney stones to also develop gout as that is also associated with high amounts of uric acid (made from oxalates).
 
There are two things to do to minimize this risk. Have an annual blood calcium test performed and the use of a good probiotic to help with proper digestion and minimize the presence of oxalates. Also one should avoid high consumption of foods containing oxalates like:

Try to limit:
Spinach
Rhubarb
Almonds and cashews
Miso soup
Grits
Baked potatoes with skin
Beets
Cocoa powder
Okra
Bran cereals and shredded wheat cereals
French fries
Raspberries
Stevia sweeteners
Sweet potatoes

Oxalates are also linked to causing depression.

This article is a pretty good overview of the situation.
https://www.webmd.co...s-food-causes#1

[invalidusername]

Having said that, there is evidence which shows PPI's can CAUSE kidney stones!! It is a no-win situation. 

 

Have you been checked out?

 

It may be hiatus hernia, or issue with bile tract - which can often produce stones in gall bladder too - and you would for sure know about them! But they can at least fix them..

 

Just seen Hat's mention of antacids... so yes, ambiguity about their involvement. I have seen plenty of evidence to their non-use long term...

[ForLyla]

I do have a hiatal hernia so that's been the source of my acid reflux. I can imagine that all the stress from WD may have given me mild gastritis as well. Any kind of calcium supplements seem to cause problems for me. I've also taken ppi's before which worked well but the world is telling not to pollute myself with anymore chemicals - worse things always happen as a consequence. I'm going in for an ultrasound this morning so keeping my fingers crossed that that's all it is. In order to treat stones, they need to do ct scans though, so who knows what problems may arise from getting 15 years worth of radiation in 20 minutes. 😑

[invalidusername]

Hat'll tell you all about radiation/scans.... bless him.

 

So, you are exactly the same as me then! I also have hiatal hernia, but refuse to take the PPI's. I don't even care if they work or not. I raised my bed a few inches at the head, watched what I eat and put up with what occurs. 

 

Please report back on findings - wishing you all the best.

[ForLyla]

Do you guys think that inhaling fumes from tile cleaner would lead to a big setback? Feeling more off today and wondering if that's why.

[fishinghat]

Quite possible if you can tell me the brand name or the ingredients I can better answer the question.

[ForLyla]

It's a mildew stain remover for bathroom tiles. What receptors would that work on? lol

It's called Scrubbing Bubbles bathroom cleaner by Johnson. https://www.whatsins...athroom-Cleaner

[fishinghat]

Well here is a summary of what I found. There are lists of receptors that these chemicals have been tested on but so mention of gaba, serotonin, histamine or any other receptor that we normally deal with in psych issues. Primarily a strong central nervous system depressant as well as possibly causing anxiety depending on how much lactic acid is in the product. I am very familiar with these chemcals so if you have any specific questions let me know. It very certainly could set you back on your withdrawal.

 

 

Dipropylene Glycol Propyl Ether (also known as 1-PROPOXY-2-PROPANOL)
A central nervous system depressant. Action is by direct effect on nerve cell metabolism. Many members of this family are known to be fetal toxins but this chemical has not been tested as of yet. It give a list of synapses and if it effects them in the section 16 Biological Test Results.
https://toxnet.nlm.n... @rel 1569-01-3
Detailed health effects.
---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Dipropylene Glycol Butyl Ether
Very simiar to the above compound. Both react with several sex hormone receptors so it is logical to expect them to be fetal toxins like so many compounds in this family.
https://pubchem.ncbi.../compound/24752
Detailed health effects.
----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Ethoxylated Alcohol
Significant central nervous system depressant. Little data found on this set of compounds.
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Sodium Dodecylbenzene Sulfonate
https://pubchem.ncbi...ompound/4289524
https://www.truthina...enzenesulfonate
A surfactant and irritant.
------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
L Lactic Acid
Easily converted to sodium lactate in the body, a strong nerbe stimulant on lactate receptors. Can cause severe anxiety if in sufficient quantities.
Strong neural irritant on avid receptors.
------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

[ForLyla]

Thanks FH! I think likely what happened is that baby has been preventing me from getting deep sleep the last few nights again. My symptoms are so reliant on getting continuous sleep.

[fishinghat]

You are welcome ForLyla. Sleep is so critical during withdrawal.

[ForLyla]

Ya getting to sleep isn't a problem. Staying asleep is so hard especially with baby. Do you have any tricks to getting back to sleep in the middle of the night?

[fishinghat]

There is a few things that I have used.

That 2 drops of melatonin the first time I wake up works fairly well. No 'hangover' in the AM.

If I can't sleep I will get up and walk about 35 or 40 feet and lay back down. If not asleep in a few minutes I repeat as necessary. The reason for this is when you walk and then lay down you get that momentary feeling of relief. This is a small amount of endorphins being released. AS you repeat the process the endorphins will build until sleep comes. During my withdrawal I would sometimes have to get up 3 or 4 times to walk before I felt like I could just lay down and rest.

My therapist also taught me that when I lay down to sleep (middle of the night or not) go some place boring in your brain. For example I plant a large garden so when I have trouble sleeping I will work that garden in my brain. I will week, plant seeds water etc. If my thoughts wonder to some bad thoughts I will start working the garden again from the beginning. This sounds ridiculous and I must confess it takes a month or two to get good at it but it will train your brain not to focus on bad thoughts.

I also will do deep breathing exercises.

I hope this helps.

[ForLyla]

I've been waking up every 3 hours and it takes me 2 hours to get back to sleep each time - bad thoughts or not. I've come to learn that your body does not count broken sleep as one. That after about an hour or so, it resets and will only count your last set of sleep. I can sleep 10 hours broken and it's not as good as sleeping 5 hours continuous. I think what's happened is that I'm too overtired to sleep now and sleep has become a very stressful thing. Clearing my mind used to work but it doesnt anymore. If I dont get a good sleep then my symptoms snowball terribly. My wd is completely dependent on it right now.

[fishinghat]

Studies show that it takes around 3 hours to get to FREM sleep, the deepest most restful sleep so what you say about continuous sleep making a difference is quite true.

[ForLyla]

It's just getting worse. I wake up every single hour and it feels like I'm having a seizure all day. I shake and feel like my head is in the clouds. It really sucks because I know I'd feel fine if I could just sleep but it's impossible. I'm worried that I'll be stuck like this now waking up every hour. I tried cbd and an antihistamine and it didnt help at all. It's all due to lack of sleep. What can I do about this? I know sleeping pills are a very bad idea but I'm running out of options.

[fishinghat]

I hate to say this Forlyla but I keep going back to hydroxyzine. 50 mg at night time. No withdrawal, no hangover in the morning, and your body does not build up tolerance to it like other antihistamines. I know you are worried about dry skin but if that occurs you can just stop taking it. The FDA says that only 0.5% experience dry skin.

[invalidusername]

Found this - would be worth a quick read;

 

https://mdedge-files...3CP_Pearls2.pdf

 

Corroborates what Hat says, although some reports of sedation next day, but where this has been reported elsewhere, patients have stated that it wears off. 

[gail]

Forlilah
,

Benadryl is often used for sleep. If you don't have time for a prescription, Benadryl is a very good choice. Say a prayer while taking it, won't hurt!

[fishinghat]

Found this - would be worth a quick read;
 
https://mdedge-files...3CP_Pearls2.pdf
 
Corroborates what Hat says, although some reports of sedation next day, but where this has been reported elsewhere, patients have stated that it wears off.

If any day time sedation occurs it usually fades in the first week.

[ForLyla]

I really don't think me waking up every hour is a stress thing. I got a massage, took cbd and a hot bath before bed last night and fell to sleep right away, but as usual I still woke up every hour. I'm thinking this is more of an end stage withdrawal problem. Almost like I've woken up from a long coma and can't get back to sleep. Although not sleeping makes me feel terrible. I wonder if anyone else gets insomnia this far out when they start feeling better.

I appreciate the advice but I'm not sure if I can take any of this stuff cuz i have to be mindful of my benzo withdrawal and sedating medications. I know that Benadryl is a bad one for it. I'm also afraid that going to my doc and asking for a prescription is off the table right now. I really don't think she'd even write it. How about if I take low dose melatonin when I wake up? Some people have had bad reactions to melatonin in benzo wd but maybe I can try it once. High dose niacin perhaps as well.

[fishinghat]

Forlyla

"Although not sleeping makes me feel terrible. I wonder if anyone else gets insomnia this far out when they start feeling better."

I can't remember any cases like this. Many have this type of sleep issue during the beginning of their withdrawal but it usually gets better as their symptoms improve.

"How about if I take low dose melatonin when I wake up?"

Good idea. That is what lead to the development of sublingual (under the tongue) melatonin. Doses of 3, 5 or more on the melatonin will usually result in a morning hangover so researchers though maybe a low dose when you wake up if placed in the liquid form under the tongue would go into the blood stream quickly, therefore go into effect quickly and be out of the system by morning. I have heard very good reports about this method and definitely think it is worth a try. Get a good liquid melatonin, shoot for a dose of around 0.3 mg, place it under the tongue and do NOT swallow it. Just hold it there to give your body a chance to absorb it directly into the blood stream. And you are right. Doses of 3 mg or more can cause issues whether or not you are going through benzo withdrawal.

[ForLyla]

Hi FH. What about tablets that dissolve under the tongue? I generally dont like using liquids because I find my measurements to be unreliable. The thing that scares me about melatonin is restless leg but maybe in the middle of the night it won't be so bad.