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#1 worthy

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Posted 27 August 2020 - 02:48 AM

Hello, I am new here and desperate for advice.  It’s a long story but will try to be brief.  Last year I did a rapid taper off zopiclone and did not realize there were nasty withdrawal efffects.  My family thought I was suffering from depression and sent me to a clinic for 3 weeks in July last year..  I live in Zimbabwe and as there are no clinics here I was sent to a neighboring country.  Whilst at the clinic I was misdiagnosed and badly poly drugged.  I was put on cymbalta, mirtazapine, zyprexa (olanzapine) and Ativan.  The dr told me to take all the meds for 3 months then come off them over the next 6 months.  I was very anti taking these meds and tried to resist but the dr insisted she knew what she was talking about.  She told me it would be easy to come off them.  Unfortunately I now see just how wrong she was as I am suffering terribly.  There are no doctors in Zimbabwe who know about cymbalta or zyprexa so nobody who can help me so having to do this on my own.  Also the drugs are not available here And the dr at the clinic won’t help me any more.  I have been tapering all except the Ativan @3%every 2 weeks since October last year.  It was ok first but now it is terrible and I am really struggling.  I was told to taper all at once but at the very low dose.  I can’t taper forever as can no longer get the pills as they are not available in Zimbabwe.  I have enough left to let me continue my 3% taper which I hope to finish nearly next year.  I realize my situation is very unique and difficult but can anybody give me some advice.  Is there anybody who knows zyprexa and mirtazapine.  My current doses are
 

cymbalta 13.2 mg of dose from 60mg

mirtazapine 3.2 mg of dose from 15mg

zyorexa .72 mg of dose from 5 mg

ativan 1mg of dose

 

I’m thinking of stopping the zyprexa at .72 then carrying on with the cymbalta and mirtazapine. 
 

Really hoping somebody can help.


#2 worthy

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Posted 27 August 2020 - 06:08 AM

I am new here and have posted a topic but as yet received no replies.  Feeling quite desperate as I have been poly drugged and need to get off the drugs as they are making me feel worse and I can no longer afford them and they are not available where I live.  I am on cymbalta, zyprexa, mirtazapine and Ativan.  Whilst I know this is mainly a cymbalta group is anybody able to advise me how to get off the other drugs.  I have been multi tapering but it is destroying me And my relationship with my families and I must make another plan.  I am on very low doses of all the drugs but now think I must quit one at a time or at least two at a time.  Please can anybody help.  


#3 invalidusername

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Posted 27 August 2020 - 07:10 AM

Hi there Worthy,

 

I am just reviewing the information right now and will be back to you in a few minutes...

 

IUN


#4 invalidusername

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Posted 27 August 2020 - 07:44 AM

So... apologies for the delay. Most of our team are in the US and are still asleep!! I am in the UK but suffer from delayed sleep phase disorder which more or less puts me in the same time zone as my friends in the US!

 

You are right that Zopiclone is no1 a drug to be messed with - it can have severe withdrawals and should only be used (as with all z-drugs) as a last resort when nothing else works. It is a real shame what has happened to you. 

 

You are in a situation which prevents a lot of options if you do not have access to the drugs. The problem is that you are withdrawing from more than one drug at a time and the neurological effects that are occuring as a result of this is what you are feeling.

 

So you were put on an SNRI, a tetracyclic, an antipsychotic AND a benzo. This is absolutely STUPID. To be put on these all at once is dangerous and someone who needs this combination of drugs would have been in a seriously bad way. 

 

You are right to leave the benzo out of this until the end, but you absolutely should not be coming off the other three all at once. Stability is needed on the other drugs whilst reducing from another due to the nature of how the synapses need to adjust the removal from your system.

 

If may be that we need to consider a shorter taper, but one at a time. The mirtazapine has a longer half life, so would be the easier to remove from the system to begin with, and as it is an add-on to the SNRI, that should be removed before the Cymbalta, but not at the same time. 

 

I will need to discuss with Fishing Hat as he will have additional knowledge when I do not on the mirt and the benzo, but I think we will need to know how much of each drug you have access to for us to formulate a withdrawal plan... but is there absolutely no means by which you can get more of any of these meds?

 

IUN


#5 worthy

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Posted 27 August 2020 - 07:44 AM

Thank you so much for looking at my post. Are you able to help with any recommendations

#6 worthy

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Posted 27 August 2020 - 07:52 AM

Thanks so much. I have on hand 100 mirtazapine
150 cymbalta
90 zyprexa
I managed to get the doctor to prescribe these but she won’t do anymore. She agreed to give me the extra doses at the time as she knew I could not get them in Zimbabwe,

#7 worthy

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Posted 27 August 2020 - 08:00 AM

I had thought of quitting the zyprexa first as that is what I have the least amount of. I really hope you may be able to give me some help. It is also the one I am on the lowest dose. The only drug available to me here is the Ativan

#8 fishinghat

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Posted 27 August 2020 - 08:48 AM

OK, worthy, I have posted information on the PM you sent me but for the purposes of helping others in the future I will copy that info to this thread so it can possibly help others. We can then do our communications on this thread for all to see. 


#9 fishinghat

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Posted 27 August 2020 - 08:50 AM

Previously supplied information from PM.

This is just some info from my library I keep.

 

Some info on Zyprexa ...

 

Olanzapine (Zyprexa) has a high attraction to serotonin receptors rather than dopamine receptors.

.

Olanzapine had the highest affinity of any antipsychotic towards the P-Glycoprotein which the body uses to transport a myriad of drugs across a numerous of different biological membranes (found in numerous body systems) including the blood brain barrier (a semi-permeable membrane which filters the contents of blood prior to it reaching the brain). A relatively large quantity of commonly encountered foods and medications inhibit P-GP and it is fairly common for pharmaceuticals to be either substrates of P-GP, or to inhibit its action; The  effects of olanzapine in the central nervous system by P-GP means that any other substance or drug which interacts with P-GP increases the risk for toxic accumulations of both olanzapine and the other drug.

 

So what we would want to do is find something to deal with the imbalance of serotonin during withdrawal as well as something to calm the receptors (Part of the nervous system). I have a list but would need to become familiar with what other meds you are taking (including supplements) before even putting forth any suggestions. 

 

 

FYI
Zyprexa (Olanzapine) withdrawal 
 
 
and there are many more.
 

#10 fishinghat

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Posted 27 August 2020 - 09:00 AM

I am reviewing your current meds and will get back to you. 

 

What are your current symptoms please?

 

As soon as I know your symptoms I will be back with some suggestions on things that can help. 

 

Just some drug interactions you need to be aware of but luckily you have gotten these doses low enough that they should not be high risk at this point.

 

Major 
mirtazapine DULoxetine
Applies to: mirtazapine, Cymbalta (duloxetine)
Using mirtazapine together with DULoxetine can increase the risk of a rare but serious condition called the serotonin syndrome, which may include symptoms such as confusion, hallucination, seizure, extreme changes in blood pressure, increased heart rate, fever, excessive sweating, shivering or shaking, blurred vision, muscle spasm or stiffness, tremor, incoordination, stomach cramp, nausea, vomiting, and diarrhea. Severe cases may result in coma and even death. You should seek immediate medical attention if you experience these symptoms while taking the medications. 
 
Moderate 
mirtazapine OLANZapine
Applies to: mirtazapine, Zyprexa (olanzapine)
Using OLANZapine together with mirtazapine can increase the risk of an irregular heart rhythm that may be serious and potentially life-threatening, although it is a relatively rare side effect. You may be more susceptible if you have a heart condition called congenital long QT syndrome, other cardiac diseases, conduction abnormalities, or electrolyte disturbances (for example, magnesium or potassium loss due to severe or prolonged diarrhea or vomiting). Talk to your doctor if you have any questions or concerns. 
 
Do NOT drink alcohol with these drugs.

#11 worthy

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Posted 27 August 2020 - 09:02 AM

Many thanks. My current symptoms are feeling very sui dal, tremors, flushed face, extreme agitation to the point of self harming (pinching, scratching) extreme anxiety (shaking, possible akasthisia like symptoms, restless leg syndrome) insomnia. , no motivation. I am ok some of the time but getting progressively worse

#12 fishinghat

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Posted 27 August 2020 - 09:05 AM

What are your current symptoms?


#13 worthy

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Posted 27 August 2020 - 10:21 AM

Are you able to give me any advice as to a way forward. I had none of these symptoms before I started these drugs

#14 fishinghat

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Posted 27 August 2020 - 11:41 AM

OK, anxiety but no depression.

 

I will be posting a article with things that have frequently helped other members. It will not be in order of importance. I would suggest you only try one item at a time so you can know what will help and what will not.


#15 fishinghat

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Posted 27 August 2020 - 11:52 AM

Well, it won't let me post it in one posting so I will have to post it in small sections.


#16 fishinghat

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Posted 27 August 2020 - 11:54 AM

Items Proven to Help Many with Cymbalta Withdrawal.
 
Diphenhydramine, (over the counter) also known as Benadryl (It contains diphenhydramine), is an antihistamine and as such is not only used for allergies/colds but also as a sleep aide. It does have a mild anxiolytic effect. May lower blood pressure and cause irregular heartbeats. Your body does build up tolerance to it after a few weeks so use it off and on. This medicine has many drug interactions.
Begins working in 15 to 30 minutes
Peak levels - 2 to 2.5 hrs
Half Life – 4 to 6 hrs
Use by members for anxiety relief and to help sleep is too numerous to mention. 
Diphenhydramine should NOT be taken with hydroxyzine. Drugs.com
 
serendipity - I found Benadryl to produce hangover effects, and cause palpitations when taken long term. Even if you wake up in the middle of the night, and can't get back to sleep, even a teeny amount (say, 15mg) can induce sleep again. 
 
Schmb - Benadryl worked on a limited basis for me, because sometimes it makes me jittery, and that only made the zaps much worse, so just use some caution in case you are sensitive to it.
 
 
FH - One caution on Benadryl. It is famous for bad reactions with other medicine so check your compatibility closely. The maximum dosage of Benadryl is 25 to 50 mg every 4 to 6 hours and do not surpass 300 mg in a day.
 
Benadryl Total
Medicinal ingredients:
•Acetaminophen, 500 mg
•Diphenhydramine Hydrochloride, 25 mg
•Pseudoephedrine Hydrochloride, 30 mg
 
It contains diphenhydramine which is the active ingredient in regular Benadryl and also pseudoephedrine which is common in most cold medicines. The Diphenhydramine helps with sleep and anxiety and the pseudoephedrine helps block the action of adrenaline which produces a calming effect. 
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#17 fishinghat

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Posted 27 August 2020 - 01:10 PM

Alright, good to see the website is back up. I will continue to post more information.


#18 fishinghat

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Posted 27 August 2020 - 01:17 PM

Melatonin
FH - a research article where it was shown that taking no more than 0.7 mg of liquid melatonin under the tongue (sublingual) helps with anxiety. Place it under the tongue until dissolved and gone. In case you are not familiar with melatonin it is the chemical your body produces in the evening to make you sleepy and ready for bed. I suggest you start with around 0.1 mg and work up from there. Too much will relax you but it might also make you sleepy. Your body will build up tolerance to it so it should be used a few days and then off of it a few days.
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L-theanine 
L-theanine is an amino acid precursor to glutamate (involved in the synthesis of GABA) and glutamine. It can cross the blood brain barrier. It is only produced by plants and fungi and a component in some teas. It inhibits glutamine transporters and glutamate transporters, and thus blocks the reuptake of glutamine and glutamate. Theanine increases serotonin, dopamine, GABA, and glycine levels in various areas of the brain. Caution – Most plants that contain L-theanine also contain caffeine and it can be a significant contaminant in L-theanine supplements. It is synthesized from glutamate using the enzyme glutamate decarboxylase and pyridoxal phosphate (which is the active form of vitamin B6) as a cofactor. This process converts glutamate, the principal excitatory neurotransmitter, into the principal inhibitory neurotransmitter (GABA).
 
Member's comments
(puritan's pride) 200 mg capsules 2- 3/ day. I have been taking this prior to cymbalta detox. It helped me reduce my dosage of clonazepam. Within 20-30 mins I feel more calm. I do believe it is helping keep the anxiety in check.
Tinabee - For now I have started taking fish oil and a supplement called Theanine Serene that is supposed to help with anxiety. I know it sounds silly since I've only taken the anxiety supplement for a couple days but I really feel like it has helped.
200mg L-Theanine in the morning with a full glass of water on an empty stomach, you can take again in late afternoon 100 to 200 mg if needed (make sure it is suntheanine - it helps with headaches and pain as any painkiller I had just did not cut it)
Member's comments were generally favorable.
 
Page 1 and 2, detailed information on L theanine and its usage.
Research
The research shows that all green tea leaves contain both L-theanine and D- theanine BUT only the special processing used by the manufacturer produces pure L-Theanine and is the choice of many of the research biologists.
 
 
Five of the six products contained significant amounts of D-theanine. Only one product, SunTheanine, appeared to contain only the L-theanine enantiomer. D-theanine is not used by the human body.  Suntheanine is the pure ingredient and that is what you want. 
 
Key Points
Theanine increases serotonin, dopamine, GABA, and glycine levels in various areas of the brain. 
Scientific Information
A National Standard monograph that reviews current research on theanine reports that it is likely safe in doses of 200–250 mg up to a maximum daily dose of 1,200 mg. Theanine is used to help with anxiety, blood pressure control, mood, and cognition. 
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#19 fishinghat

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Posted 27 August 2020 - 01:20 PM

Ashwagandha
(Withania somnifera )
All five studies concluded that WS intervention resulted in greater score improvements (significantly in most cases) than placebo in outcomes on anxiety or stress scales.
 
Our results provide evidence indicating that key constituents in WS may have an important role in the development of pharmacological treatments for neurological disorders associated with GABAergic signaling dysfunction such as general anxiety disorders, sleep disturbances, muscle spasms, and seizures.
 
300 mg twice a day.
Final BAI scores (anxiety test) decreased by 56.5% in the Ashwagandha group. Significant differences between groups were also observed in mental health, concentration, fatigue, social functioning, vitality, and overall quality of life with the Ashwagandha group exhibiting greater clinical benefit. No serious adverse reactions were observed in either group.
 
250 mg 2x/day
 
500 mg/day for bipolar, effective.
 
Each capsule contained 300 mg of high-concentration full-spectrum extract from the root of the Ashwagandha plant. Each person took 2 capsules a day. The treatment group that was given the high-concentration full-spectrum Ashwagandha root extract exhibited a significant reduction in scores on all the stress-assessment scales on Day 60, relative to the placebo group. The serum cortisol levels were substantially reduced in the Ashwagandha group, relative to the placebo group. No serious adverse events were reported.
 
W. somnifera extract is effective in treating obsessive compulsive disorder
The results suggest the protective effect of WS in the management of ethanol (alcohol)withdrawal reactions.
 
Preliminary results suggest that Withania root extract can be used in the management sleep loss and associated oxidative stress.
 
Effective for anxiety
 
WSG also exhibited an antidepressant effect, comparable with that induced by imipramine in the 'behavioural despair' and 'learned helplessness' tests. The investigations support the use of WS as a mood stabilizer in clinical conditions of anxiety and depression
 
It has a Cognition Promoting Effect and was useful in children with memory deficit and in old age people loss of memory. It was also found useful in neurodegenerative diseases such as Parkinson's, Huntington's and Alzeimer's diseases. It has GABA mimetic effect and was shown to promote formation of dendrites. It has anxiolytic effect and improves energy levels and mitochondrial health. It is an anti-inflammatory and anti-arthritic agent and was found useful in clinical cases of Rheumatoid and Osteoarthritis.
 
1,250 mg/day × 10 days
All volunteers tolerated WS without any adverse event.
Safety and side effects
 
This product is comparative to lorazepam in its ability to control anxiety. That is impressive.
 
250 mg twice a day.
At 6 weeks, significantly more patients met a priori response criteria in the drug group (88.2%) as compared with the placebo group (50%). The drug was well-tolerated and did not occasion more adverse effects than did placebo. It is concluded that this ethanolic extract of Withania somnifera has useful anxiolytic potential and merits further investigation.
 
This study provides scientific validation to the anxiolytic, anti-inflammatory and anti-apoptotic properties of ASH-WEX, which may serve as an effective dietary supplement for management of SD induced stress and associated functional impairments.
 
Members Comments
A few members have reported taking it during withdrawal and said it was very beneficial.
 
Brz - ashwagandha update:
had to stop - bummer.
definitely allergic. just like sk8ermama. i couldn't figure out why my allergies hadn't gone away even after the pollen count dropped way down. stopped the ashwagandha and my congestion and headaches subsided. not to mention i had a very tight chest feeling. very uncomfortable. my side effects are not uncommon from what i've learned. i may try again way down the road but now that i'm battling reflux, i don't want to complicate things. i've heard rhodiola is a similar adaptogen, but don't want to introduce anything new into my system right now.
 
Many other members have had good success with it but your body does build up tolerance to it so it must be used for short periods of time. 
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Deep breathing, sighs, yawns....
These activities cause an increase in the release of dopamine, endorphins and serotonin. This fact has been used by psychologists for decades to help control anxiety, depression and sleep. By causing yourself to yawn several time over a 10 or 15 minute period it will release enough of these neurotransmitters to help relax and induce sleep. Sighs work much in the same fashion but to a lesser degree, Breathing exercises are the most effective. A good psychologist should be used to teach the most effective techniques.
 
Member comments and tips -
deep breathes, breath(ing) - 22 comments all positive
Raven - Breathe it deep calming breaths and hold them for about 5 seconds before slowly letting them out.
Gail - you need to breathe, yes breathe in and out slowly.
FH - Deep breathing. Close your eyes—and try taking deep, slow breaths— making each breath even deeper than the last. If you have a psychologist who could teach you relaxation techniques, controlled breathing and heart rate, etc. These techniques really do work.
Raven - Just do you best to stay calm and use breathing techniques. My husband and FH have given me great tips on breathing when anxiety strikes. FH because he is a veteran and my husband because he has asthma.
Keys to breathing:
** Take slow deep breaths (breath in deeply and slowly)
** Hold for at least 15 secs if you can
** Exhale slowly
***repeat as needed*
 
FN - What helped me the most with this was yoga ...the breathing exercises ... once learned, they can be done anywhere, anytime .... the release of the built up anxiety in my body was tremendous ...
Janson - . i've learned a few breathing exercises via yoga and that helps immensely to calm down those nerves that are about to snap. even without knowledge of specific breathing exercises, just take deep full breaths with hands on your stomach and see your tummy rise on the breath in and then fully breath out. so simple, so effective.
Note - There must have been well over 100 members that had posts similar to the one below. Shortness of breath, heart pounding, skip beats, tightness in the chest or chest pain. these are classic anxiety symptoms and are the result of elevated adrenalin e levels. Adrenaline is a vasoconstrictor and bronchiole constrictor. These shallow rapid breaths allow CO2 to build in the lungs and worsens the symptoms. Alpha-agonists (eg. clonidine) and beta blockers (atenolol) work well t o block the effets of this excess adrenaline. Breathing exercises also help considerably in breaking this Cycle. As you can see below ZA got it really right.
Snap87 - Just scared with the shortness of breath and heart palpitations more than anything.
ZA - the 'out of breath' symptom is actually shallow breathing and I had that for about 2days it is very exhausting as it causes your ozygen saturation to drop. what worked for me 'was awareness -slow deep breathing -then a little aerobics. it helped to up my b/p and neuteralize by blood gases.
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#20 fishinghat

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Posted 27 August 2020 - 01:27 PM

Prescription Meds
 
Clonidine
Clonidine  (Catapres, Kapvay, Nexiclon, Clophelin) is a classic blood pressure medicine BUT it is very effective on anxiety. It is an alpha adrenergic antagonist which means it stimulates the alpha adrenaline synapses located in the frontal lobes of the brain. When these synapses are stimulated by the clonidine the brain thinks that it is due to adrenaline and it tells the adrenal gland to produce less adrenaline. It is a little slow to kick in, about an hour and a half. It has a 12 hour half life. Most drs prescribe 0.1 mg twice a day. One to be taken about an hour before bedtime and the other in the morning. Because it decreases adrenaline it has a strong calming effect which helps a person get to sleep and stay a sleep. It is not unusual for people to have a little drowsiness from clonidine until they get use to it (1 or 2 weeks). It does NOT work faster sublingual (under the tongue) like benzos.  These have no withdrawal but your blood pressure may spike for a couple weeks if you cold turkey. Due to the lowering of blood pressure and sleepiness it is common for the patient to start with ½ tablet at bedtime. Once the patient adjusts to the medicine they begin a ½ tablet in the morning. As sleepiness and blood pressure stabilize they are slowly worked up to the 2 tablets (0.1 mg each) a day. 
Begins working 60 to 90 minutes
Peak levels – 3 to 5  hrs
Half Life – 12 - 16 hrs
There are too many research articles on clonidine's anxiolytic properties to list here.
FH - I started clonidine but it was a relief to me NOT to be able to feel my heart pound through my chest. As long as your bp is OK you shouldn't have a problem. 
That is why the slow start up. This gives your heart a chance to adapt to the new med. I did the same slow start up and my bp stayed within normal range. Just keep monitoring your bp and you should be OK.
FN - clonidine worked wonders for me 
 
Hydroxyzine, (Vistaril, Atarax) - is an H(1)R antagonist, is very effective against anxiety in most people but some get no help from it at all. It is not addictive nor does it have withdrawal but it also can lower blood pressure some but that usually goes away with time. This medicine should be started slowly to give your body a chance to adjust to the blood pressure effect. Normal dose is 25 mg four times a day but can go as high as 400mg/day.
Begins working in 30 minutes or less
Peak levels - 2  hrs
Half Life – 15 to 20 hrs
Do not take with cimetidine as it increases hydroxyzine levels in the blood.
 
https://www.mayoclin...se/drg-20311434
(Mayo Clinic)
For oral dosage forms (capsules or suspension): 
⦁ To help control anxiety and tension: 
⦁ Adults—50 to 100 milligrams (mg) 4 times a day. 
 
Atenolol is a beta 1 adrenergic receptor antagonist, also known as a beta blocker. It does not pass  through the blood brain barrier which limits its side effects compared to other beta blockers. It has been linked to a higher risk of type 2 diabetes. It may cause drowsiness and lower blood pressure. Typical dosage around 25 mg four times/day. Dosage should be slowly increased.
Begins working in 30 minutes to an hour
Peak levels – 2 – 4 hrs
Half Life – 6 - 8 hrs
SF - So now I am on one. It is called Atilonol (Atenolol?) and calms down your heart rate too.
 
Buspirone (Buspar) is a seratonin 5-HT1A  receptor partial agonist and a dopamine antagonist at the receptors. It functions as a weak anti-anxiety medication similar to diazepam in strength (a weak benzo). No withdrawal or tolerance issues. Dosage should be kept low if taking a ssri and/or snri or St. John's Wort as it may cause seratonin syndrome. DO NOT take with grapefruit or grapefruit juice. May lower blood pressure. Typical dosage is 10 to 20 mg three times per day.
Begins working 3 to 7 days after begin dosing
Peak levels - 1  hrs
Half Life – 2 - 4 hrs
https://www.ncbi.nlm...pubmed/22998742
Buspar (15mg) and Melatonin (3 mg) yielded the best anti-depressant effect of any combination concentration tested. (See Melatonin below)
https://www.ncbi.nlm...pubmed/25156283
Buspar and melatonin in combination is anxiolytic.
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#21 invalidusername

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Posted 27 August 2020 - 01:30 PM

"My current symptoms are feeling very suicidal, tremors, flushed face, extreme agitation to the point of self harming (pinching, scratching) extreme anxiety (shaking, possible akasthisia like symptoms, restless leg syndrome) insomnia. , no motivation. I am ok some of the time but getting progressively worse"

 

OK - back from work and caught up.

 

I seriously think you need to consider staying where you are on the Cymbalta. Any further with this and your norepinephrine is going to be so far out which will mess up your energy, your adrenaline and all manner of other things. Your brain is desperately trying to cater for the loss of all these chemicals it had. 

 

The bottom line is we will never know which drug withdrawal is causing which, this is why I suggested your only way forward is by doing one at a time where possible. Three short-ish tapers are far better than one slightly longer three drug taper. No question.

 

Let's start there.


#22 fishinghat

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Posted 27 August 2020 - 01:30 PM

Dos and Don'ts

DON'T ...
take PPIs, acid reducers or antacids with an antidepressant as it will effect absorption of the antidepressant.

Don't take St. John's Wort, 5HTP, tryptophan, SAMe, Dextromethorphan (a cough syrup/cold medicine) with an antidepressant - Serotonin Syndrome.

Don't take Stimulants (Makes anxiety worse)
Caffeine 
Over-the-counter cold preparations contain phenylpropylamine and pseudoephedrine*
Sleep deprivation
Marijuana*
Magnesium*
MSG
Alcohol
Stress
amphetamines
ecstasy
nicotine
Ginseng
L-Tyrosine 
B Vitamins*
aspartame
Coconut Oil 
Taurine 
DHEA 
Ginkgo 
Iodine 
Arginine
Sugar
Kava
* - Only some people have this reaction.

Things containing caffeine..
https://www.caffeine...ffeine-database
List of energy drinks with caffiene. (over 100)

Don't take Depressants (Make depression worse)
Oxalic acid is a depressant found in members of the spinach family and cabbage, broccoli, brussels sprouts, chives and lamb's quarters are high in oxalates, as are sorrel and parsley. Rhubarb leaves contain about 0.5% oxalic acid. Oxalic acid can cause depression, lack of minerals, kidney stones, and more. Cooking does not affect oxalic acid. People with kidney disease, a history of kidney stones or suffer from depression should avoid these foods. 

other depressants:
Aspartame
Gluten
High Fat Dairy
Sugar 
alcohol
Trans fats
Sodium 
Caffeine
Pesticide residue on foods
GHB
exposure to organic solvents (paint, varnish, stains, cleaning solvents, paint thinner, etc).

Do not take any calcium or magnesium products within 2 hours of a medication as it can effect absorption of the medication. 
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Do
take 500 mg of vitamin C per day or 300 mg of NAC - (N-acetyl cysteine) twice a day, an antioxidant
learn Cognitive Behavioral Therapy or Mindfulness
sleep as much as possible
Keeping a Journal  - Don't trust your memory during withdrawal.
Stay hydrated
 


#23 invalidusername

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Posted 27 August 2020 - 01:33 PM

What Hat is suggesting on the supplementary and dietary front is very good advice. 

 

Implementing this along with the revised withdrawal should help.


#24 fishinghat

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Posted 27 August 2020 - 01:38 PM

Omega 3
Dose - Omega 3 is recommended at 2000 mg/day EPA and DHA for anxiety, give or take a couple hundred depending on what research you read. It has been shown that only the EPA and DHA components effect anxiety. Any other omega 3 fatty acids don't do anything for anxiety. Life Extensions, Mega EPA/DHA, is distilled (molecularly purified) so you don't get any impurities with your product plus it contains no mercury. Some even provide a certificate of analysis if requested. They also have ones that are enteric coated now that will not irritate the digestive track and has no fish burbs to them. 
 
http://www.cymbaltaw...elps#entry67706
This thread contains a detailed discussion on use of Omega 3.
 
Also this thread....
http://www.cymbaltaw...elps#entry68036

#25 worthy

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Posted 27 August 2020 - 01:41 PM

Many thanks for all that information. Are you able to help me with a tapering plan. I would like to taper the zyprexa first possibly with the mirtazapine???? Is 3% every 2 weeks slow enough. I am on such low doses of both. Would it be foolish to stop the zyprexa @
.72mg out of 5 mg. I really appreciate your help. I need to taper before I run out of meds. You did mention a revised withdraw plan but I can’t see anything on that. I so agree that 3 shortish tapers will be best, leaving the cymbalta and Ativan for last.

#26 invalidusername

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Posted 27 August 2020 - 02:22 PM

Many thanks for all that information. Are you able to help me with a tapering plan. I would like to taper the zyprexa first possibly with the mirtazapine???? Is 3% every 2 weeks slow enough. I am on such low doses of both.

This question can only be answered after knowing how long this would leave you to then withdraw from the Cymbalta.

 

Would it be foolish to stop the zyprexa @ .72mg out of 5 mg.

In my opinion, yes as it is usually the final 20% that requires the most resolve

 

I need to taper before I run out of meds.

Exactly - so if you can work out the above. What dose of Cymbalta are you on? And you have 150 caps of these left? Are you presently bead counting?

 

I so agree that 3 shortish tapers will be best, leaving the cymbalta and Ativan for last.

Yes - this is I am sure the way forward given the classes of the drugs.


#27 worthy

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Posted 27 August 2020 - 02:47 PM

Thanks so much.
My current doses are
Cymbalta 12.36 mg from 60
Mirtazapine 2.6 from 15
Olanzapine .72mg from 5 mg
Ativan 1mg

I am presently weighing all the meds. Hope this answers all the questions

#28 invalidusername

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Posted 27 August 2020 - 02:52 PM

Just to confirm, you have 150 capsules of 60mg Cymbalta left?


#29 worthy

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Posted 27 August 2020 - 03:22 PM

Just double checked and found an extra box so I have 180 cymbalta capsules left
100 mirtazapine
90 zyprexa

#30 fishinghat

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Posted 27 August 2020 - 03:25 PM

IUN has got you off to a good start.
Just my current thoughts.
 
I would do the Olanzapine first. it has a slightly softer withdrawal and your dose is already low. 3% drops? well I would suggest a slow taper over a 2 month period.

Second I would do the Mirtazapine with a drop over a 4 month period.

Third the Cymbalta over a 6 month period.

Fourth the Ativan but that is way down the road. I don't know if you are bead counting these or weighting them but be sure not to throw ANY away. For example if weighting a Olanzapine tablet and cutting it down to 0.72 mg don't throw away the part you shaved off. You may need it later.

These are the fastest drop rates I would even try. Slower is better. just to give you an example I weaned off 6 psych drugs over a 8 year period and am not yet done. The weaning off your starting doses would normally take a good 8 years. Don't underestimate the effects of the further withdrawals. Withdrawal too fast can lead to suicidal thoughts or even suicide. You must take your time.

I would strongly recommend that you get your current symptoms under control before weaning any more. Continuing to wean will only make things worse. Research has shown that it takes your nervous system up to 2 years to recover after weaning off just one antidepressant. Your best bet would be to lean on a prescription of clonidine, hydroxyzine or L-Theanine to start with. remember that all of these meds and supplements reduce blood pressure so get a good BP cuff and start up slowly so your bp doesn't get to low.



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