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#31 fishinghat

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Posted 18 March 2021 - 01:52 PM

"Finally after 3 months and a 40 pound weight loss I called my GI who had me do a series of stool tests and I had high levels of two toxins of cdifficile which took 3 rounds of vancomycin to clear up, GI doc was on the verge of scheduling me for a fecal transplant when the third round finally worked.  Needless to say there was damage done to my intestines due to both the chemo regimen and the cdifficile so since that time I have been taking 2 culturelle  probiotics a day on the GI’s advice.  He has since retired but my new GI suggested to continue with it.  Sorry if that was TMI.  So after all of that I do have some IBS-d which flares from time to time.  So now I have diarrhea from time to time but that is normal for me."

 

That was  "The one item that I really think may be an issue I am still working on," I mentioned in my previous post!!!

 

First of all here is no such thing as too much informtion on medical issues.

 

I have had IBS-d since my 20's (I can say that was a very long time ago). Tons of drs and supplements until I finally found a dr around 1985 who systematically approached the issue and along with reading medical journal articles I have an episode of IBS about once every 2 years that lasts around 3 or 4 weeks. Tommorrow I will work up a post for you on what has really turned the tide for me and many others. No aggressive medication and primarily life style changes. 

 

Hang in there!!


#32 frog

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Posted 18 March 2021 - 02:42 PM

Oof Mimi, my heart really goes out to you. As if the chemo and all that stress isn't enough, to then heap all of this other stuff on top of it. Thank you for the information regarding your experience with CBT-I and wow what a mess of medications. I'm sure you could barely figure out if you were coming and going while on all of that. I've been fortunate that the little bit of Seroquel does the trick 99% of the time. Although coincidentally last night I had a terrible time, my brain and body were too wired up and refused to give in to the Seroquel. 

 

My Cymbalta withdrawal gave me GI issues too :( I was told I have IBS-D or functional diarrhea by doctors but I don't think I do. I think it was just a result of withdrawal. I've been able to heal through Imodium and fiber and am pretty much back to normal now. Maybe even better in some ways as I used to get incredibly constipated while on Cymbalta. 

 

I hope you're able to find some help and relief that works for you. We're all here to listen


#33 mimi10

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Posted 19 March 2021 - 06:37 AM

IUN thanks for the kratom info, did some research and I don’t think it is something I will be pursuing at this time but I now have more info and knowledge on it.  Actually I think I found out why things were so bad for me yesterday, I had absolutely no idea that medical marijuana had any sort of withdrawal and when I went upstairs last evening I realized that for the past two nights I had not taken it.  Googled it and saw what a horrible withdrawal it too has, and if yesterday was any indication of its withdrawal, wow it’s was not good. The pharmacist at the dispensary never told me anything about that at our initial consult to decide which would be the best option for me for the chronic pain.  I take an edible gummy about half hour before bed, it is 20cbd and 10thc.  The initial gummy I started on was 5cbd and 5thc but wasn’t quite handling the pain so,pharmacist there suggested this one as the next step up.  I have been using it most every night for the last 2 years. Anyway, I had no idea there would be a withdrawal for it but that will have to wait for another time as for now I still works and this old body can’t handle anymore at this time.   I am just glad that I googled it last night when I realized that I had forgotten to take it for two nights and found that info because I was thinking perhaps it was the cymbalta withdrawal and I would have to updose a little, but I really think it was the marijuana.  I took the marijuana last night, then half hour later the mirtazapine and had a fairly good night.  Maybe I should have cut the gummy in half cause I still feel a little loopy from it this morning.


#34 fishinghat

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Posted 19 March 2021 - 11:49 AM

This IBS-D info is a little long so I am going to post it in sections.

 

I had IBS-D for nearly 50 years. During that time I worked on diet, meds, homeopathic and pharmaceutical ways of controlling g it. I am now nearly IBS free for 15 years.
All the information below has come from drs and/or medical journals. References on each are available if you desire further information.
Diet changes were based on journals I kept track of what bothered me and what did not. Foods that made my IBS worse were eliminated/minimized. One of my drs sent me in for an extensive allergy test. It showed an allergy to strawberries. I eliminate them from my diet and that helped a lot. 
 
I also began eating 6 very small meals a day.
 
I eat foods that promote serotonin production. Primarily white poultry meats (tryptophan).
 
No hot or cold drinks, Room temperature water only and only warm water when experiencing IBS. This alone helped a lot as warm water calms the stomach.
 
NO acidic food or drinks at all.
 
No fat diet. One of the things I found when tracking what food set off my IBS was that anything high in fat was an issue. Originally I went to a low fat diet. Due to a totally different issue my dr placed me on Omega 3. It made me very sick at my stomach. We tried various over the counter versions, prescription versions and enteric coated but to no benefit. I had some empty capsules at home from some weaning off of an antidepressant so I filled one with safflower oil, another with virgin olive oil and a third with canola oil. One of these was taken every 4 days which gave my stomach a chance to heal between tests. All three made me sick. My dr ran a screening of pancreatic enzymes. Both lipase and amylase were in normal range but at the very bottom of the range. It turned out I had a genetic variation in my lpl gene which made it difficult to digest fats. Changed to literally a nearly no fat diet. Big help. 
 
Now you may not have this issue but it gives you an idea of what to look for. One of the things to do is have a CMP performed (Comprehensive Metabolic Panel). It will measure serum albumin (a protein in the blood). It will also determine - Alanine transaminase (ALT) an enzyme found in the liver that helps convert proteins into energy for the liver cells. When the liver is damaged, ALT is released into the bloodstream and levels increase. Aspartate transaminase (AST). AST is an enzyme that helps metabolize amino acids. Like ALT, AST is normally present in blood at low levels. An increase in AST levels may indicate liver damage, disease or muscle damage. Alkaline phosphatase (ALP). ALP is an enzyme found in the liver and bone and is important for breaking down proteins. Higher-than-normal levels of ALP may indicate liver damage or disease, such as a blocked bile duct, or certain bone diseases. Albumin and total protein. Albumin is one of several proteins made in the liver. Your body needs these proteins to fight infections and to perform other functions. Lower-than-normal levels of albumin and total protein may indicate liver damage or disease. Bilirubin. Bilirubin is a substance produced during the normal breakdown of red blood cells. Bilirubin passes through the liver and is excreted in stool. Elevated levels of bilirubin (jaundice) might indicate liver damage or disease or certain types of anemia. Any of these could point to liver or digestive issues that need addressing. This is a simple blood test but can yield helpful results. 
 
A good probiotic twice a day. (big help) I use Renew Life 30 billion once a day. No disrespect to your dr but the Culturelle  probiotics only contain 1 to 3 different strains of good bacteria depending on the product. The Renew Life contains 12 strains. This will limit the buildup of good bacteria in the intestines. As indicated in one of your posts, do not underestimate the effects of antibiotics on your IBS. I literally have a large library on the effects of antibiotics on not only digestive bacteria but also liver, gall bladder and pancreatic function. This further illustrates the need for the above mentioned blood tests. 
 
In addition, you should NEVER take probiotics while on an antibiotic as it effects the performance of the antibiotic. This could lead to the need for multiple regimes of antibiotics to kill the pathogenic bacteria. You should always restart probiotics 48 hours after finishing a regime of antibiotics to replace any good bacteria that the antibiotic has killed otherwise any "bad" bacteria in the digestive system has a chance to repopulate faster than good bacteria. 

#35 fishinghat

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Posted 19 March 2021 - 11:53 AM

High fiber diet. Critical. It has been well documented that a diet rich in insoluble fiber is essential in controlling IBS diarrhea. The most effective is wheat bran. I use wheat bran in some biscuits I make. By eating two biscuits a day I receive my daily dose of insoluble fiber and that has totally eliminated my diarrhea. Other good sources are Shredded wheat and Fiber Oone cereal. Always start will low doses of fiber and work up or it can cause bloating. 
 
Peppermint products like lozenges, peppermint oil and candy can help relax the stomach as well. Be sure it contains real peppermint and not just artificial flavoring. Peppermint relaxes smooth muscles like the ones in the stomach. Caution -  It also relaxes the lower esophageal sphincter (the valve at the top of the stomach) which can lead to heartburn.
 
I was put on prescription dicyclomine. Very little benefit. 
 
Prior to using the wheat bran fiber I also took Imodium which seemed to be effective BUT if not careful I would become constipated. I found that I could take a small grain of it (about the size of a large grain of sand) everyday and it would help my diarrhea a lot. 
 
 
Last but not least. Heartburn. People with IBS often develop chronic heartburn, especially when they get older. Many times this heartburn takes the form of LPR (Laryngopharyngeal Reflux). this is an unusual reflux in that it does not have the classic heartburn symptom. The acid coming up into the esophagus will burn the throat and the sinus cavities leading to a sore throat and postnasal drip. If this occurs there is some tips below that may help. 
 
Heartburn
TREATMENT—
• Immediately drink a large glass of water. This will help wash the HCl back down and dilute it as well.
• Do not lie down. Remain upright, so gravity can help push the HCl down and keep it down. Later, when you do lie down, elevate the bed at the head by 4 to 7 inches.
• Avoid bending over; if you must lift something, bend at the knees. You do not want to compress your stomach when you have heartburn.
• Eating mints relaxes the lower esophageal sphincter, so HCl can crowd up into the esophagus.
• Do not drink anything caffeinated, for it will irritate the esophagus even more. Caffeine relaxes the sphincter, so stomach contents can move on up. Tobacco smoke also relaxes the sphincter. Estrogens relaxs it also.
• Drinking milk may feel good going down, but it encourages the stomach to secrete more acid.
• Drinks with fizz in them expand the stomach and make it more likely that HCl will come up the food pipe.
• Greasy, fried, and fatty foods sit in the stomach for a long time and increase HCl production. Avoid meat and dairy products.
• Antidepressants and sedatives aggravate heartburn. Aspirin and ibuprofen cause heartburn.
• Avoid stress, for that increases HCl production also.
• Loosen your belt; better yet, wear suspenders.
• Do not eat within 2½ hours before bedtime. Doing so not only can cause heartburn, but bring on heart attacks also.
 
Gargle with baking soda water. Baking soda neutralizes stomach acid. Sipping baking soda water will neutralize acid in the throat and stomach but drinking too much can cause gas which can force more acid into the throat.
 
My drs have instructed me that at the first sign of LPR start on omeprozole (Prilosec OTC). It should correct the LPR in 2 to 4 weeks. I have found it to be very effective..

#36 fishinghat

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Posted 19 March 2021 - 11:56 AM

The only other thing that I can think to add is that I ate out much less frequently because who knew what was in the dishes and if it would bother me. If you have any questions please do not hesitate to ask.


#37 mimi10

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Posted 19 March 2021 - 01:27 PM

Hat you are an amazing wealth of information.  Some of the things you have mentioned in your posts I do already.  My primary doc does a CMP at least once a year, sometimes more often if I’ve been unwell.  My oncologist also does a CMP once a year now, originally she was doing it every 3 months, then 6 and now annually.  Things are usually in the normal range, other than my ALK PHOS is slightly elevated once in a while, only since chemo.  I eat small meals, usually Cheerios and half a banana for breakfast, half a tuna  or turkey sandwich for lunch and baked chicken with white rice for dinner.  I haven’t eaten much more during withdrawal because cymbalta killed my appetite and still hasn’t returned. I sleep elevated.  I usually avoid fried and spicy things as they tend to be my triggers.  I have never been able to use aspirin or ibuprofen, only Tylenol.  I bought a multi strain probiotic, garden of life primal defense, but  it gave me constipation so went back to culturelle.  Everything usually needs to be cleared through my oncologist, she has been deemed the captain of my health team, usually everything is run by her.  Not sure of that will change as my oncologist very recently relocated to North Carolina and I have not met my new oncologist who replaced her yet.  GI originally told me to take florastor but oncologist said no because it’s a fungal strain and I have a permanently compromised immune system after a hematological cancer so that’s when together they chose culturelle.  I was told to use a product called Gaviscon I if reflux occurs, it is a tablet that you chew which becomes a foam in your mouth and you swallow the foam, usually works very quickly and it is rare that I need it.  Antibiotics have to be chosen carefully for me because I have allergies to all sulfa as well as quinonlones.  I’ve usually taken probiotics and yogurt while on antibiotics but separated by a few hours.  Oops, back later, husband wants to go for a walk.


#38 fishinghat

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Posted 19 March 2021 - 03:44 PM

Got to spend time with your spouse. That is a priority. All that seems good except the probiotics while on antibiotics. That is a big no no as the antibiotics effect goes to the probiotic rather than the pathodenic bacteria. Hopefully some of the other items may be of some use to you.

 

I also have a comprimised immune system due to a series of radiological imagings that destroyed my WBC. I have been in reverse isolation for 6 years now. Its tough to stay at home that much but my wbc is close to normal again and I hope to be released from isolation soon. Of course with covid in play I still won't be out and around until I get a vaccinated. I can't take the mRNA vaccines so i am waiting for the J&J vacine to arrive in my area.


#39 mimi10

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Posted 19 March 2021 - 05:42 PM

I will keep that in mind about the antibiotics, GI doc told me yogurt and probiotics but at least 2 hours away from when I take the antibiotic otherwise the antibiotics destroy the probiotics.  Husband and I spend 24/7 together during this covid, we are older and neither works anymore.  I was watching the grandkids from when the oldest was born and until his sister, born about 3 years later, was 6 months old.  I had to stop watching them when I was diagnosed as oncologist said I would have no immune system and children are little germ factories, that was one of the hardest parts of going through everything.  Up until covid I did a lot of volunteering at our local senior center even though I am a senior myself.  I really miss the activities there as well as my friends there, I’m hoping it will be reopening in the not too distant future. 
On cymbalta topic, this morning I went to a dose of 10 beads in my taper and am not sure if I should continue decreasing 1 bead a day or hold for a bit.  So far side effects have been bearable, the insomnia bothers me the absolute worst, nights I get little to no sleep I am no good for the next day.  Two nights ago was one of the worst but in hindsight I do feel it was my mistake with the medical marijuana.  What do you think?


#40 fishinghat

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Posted 20 March 2021 - 07:45 AM

Mimi. I think you are on top of your game. You are smart and intuitive. Trust your instincts. 

 

These last few beads can be the hardest. I would fo a 1 bead drop every 3 or 4 days depending on how you are doing. Maybe you are one of the lucky ones that won't have to many issues. Lets hope so.


#41 invalidusername

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Posted 20 March 2021 - 05:46 PM

Hat you are an amazing wealth of information.

 

That he is - no question. We are lucky to have a 10,000 strong audience of people who have used this, and many other, drugs. You don't get this level of population measurements in published academia - but then again, I'm quite glad. My latest survey took information from 300 people and it has taken me forever to log all the data!

 

Glad you had a look into Kratom, so you know that it is there should you feel willing to try in the future, and I am here should you need any other information regarding this, the CBD or THC. And yes, there will sure be a withdrawal - but each person is different. Some may not feel much of the effects of what you were on, but over the course of 2 years, there would be select few. It can get its claws into you quite early on, whereas the CBD, most can more or less take it or leave it. This is how I measure my Kratom. The point that I feel I simply couldn't do without it is when it stops, but after two years, this simply has not happened. But as I said, addiction is not to be messed with and you sure sound fairly savvy on that front and have done your homework.

 

Regarding the withdrawal, as Hat said, trust your instincts. Sounds like you have done well with your withdrawal. But as the drop becomes more towards the end, it might be wise to hold a day or two between drops, but see how you go.

 

Also... think it is wonderful that you do your volunteer work. I really hope, as you do, that things return for you. Bless you dear Mimi.


#42 mimi10

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Posted 20 March 2021 - 06:15 PM

Awww, you all, hat, IUN, and frog, are the best.


#43 mimi10

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Posted 21 March 2021 - 11:24 AM

IUN, something to run past you.  Husband and I were brainstorming this morning and were thinking that perhaps there was a chance that the medical marijuana use had contributed to the insomnia and other issues that came up when I was on a bunch of antibiotics for almost a month and unable to eat much at all on them because they killed my appetite.  ER had put me on flagyl and cefdinir for 2 weeks for diverticulitis, then 2 days later primary doc had to put me on 10 days of vancomycin for cdiff along with 14 days of clomiterazole for oral thrush from the antibiotics and immediately after it was doxycycline for a uti along with another 14 days of clomiterazole to finish clearing up the thrush.  During this time I was hardly eating but still taking the marijuana gummy around 9 at night, it has 20cbd and 10thc in it.  Was wondering if that dose on an empty stomach was too much, it was in the middle of all of that when the insomnia developed as well as some tachycardia and a light anxiety in the morning.  Since the edible I take is like a sugar coated strawberry gumdrop when I begin to try to wean off of it could I just trim some off of the edible, like maybe 1/8  which would be like a 1.25 reduction in THC or should I look for another form at the dispensary.  Since the edible is round, about the size of a dime, I could divide it like a pie but 1/8 is probably the smallest cut I could make.  I was wondering if the THC was evenly distributed throughout the gummy.  I was going to make an appt with the dispensaries pharmacist but not sure I can trust what he says since he didn’t seem think marijuana had a withdrawal, haven’t we all heard that one before.  Thanks for you help.

on the cymbalta front, after 2 days at 9 beads I tried 8 this morning and we will see how that goes.


#44 invalidusername

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Posted 21 March 2021 - 05:35 PM

Well the morning anxiety is quite likely as it is common even when a regular appetite is maintained.

 

Regarding the insomnia, this has been known to occur but in long-term users, and tests have been done on subjects who have smoked rather than taken edibles. However, this as a causality of the insomnia is still yet to be shown, so whilst it is less likely in the amount and length of time you have taken it, there is always a possibility. 

 

If the gummies are made correctly, they will be mixed at the point of adding the gelatine whilst at a moderate temperature and would therefore infuse with the rest of the ingredients, however, some are made by adding drops to the moulds from a pre-made mix, in which case, the THC/CBD content will be concentrated in one-place. the only way of knowing is to find out from the manufacturing plant. I would imagine if it is a larger plant, it would be the former as the gelatine, flavoring, sugar and chemical content will be pre-mixed and then heated before placed into the moulds which means they are uniform.

 

The alternative is to get a lower dose gummie, and then you will be sure you are taking the right dose each time.


#45 mimi10

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Posted 23 March 2021 - 04:54 PM

IUN thanks for the info, I think after I get done with the cymbalta I may try to start cutting back on the marijuana.  And as expected the dispensary pharmacist said he hasn’t had anyone who has experienced any withdrawal from marijuana.  Even though that aggravated me I politely said oh ok thanks and hung up.

As far as cymbalta went to 7 beads, starting to struggle with the withdrawal symptoms a bit, insomnia being the worst of it for me.  Last night I took the marijuana about 9, the mirtazapine about 945 and fell asleep about 10, woke up with anxiety about 1130 got up did some breathing exercises and walked around a little bit, luckily was able to get back to sleep around 1 but woke up for good at 415 ugh.  Hopefully better nights are coming.  Tinnitus is amped up today, anxiety is lightly present and a little nauseous too. 


#46 invalidusername

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Posted 23 March 2021 - 07:03 PM

Anxiety and nausea is textbook at this time. 

 

Lot of people freak out when ears come into play, but most aren't aware that there are serotonin "hubs" in the ears, so when the dose gets upset, the ears can very easily do some funny things, so try not to worry too much about that. I had exactly the same with Zoloft after only 10 days of being on it!

 

Hat will tell you that walking around when you can't sleep is a good thing - he swears by it. I am fortunate that my meditation helps me, but I know of the waking early and it being game over. Very annoying, but I am sure it will pass in good time.

 

Keep us updated!


#47 frog

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Posted 24 March 2021 - 03:05 PM

Insomnia is so hard :( 

So many possible causes, anxiety of course being a super common one. And once it starts and you throw medication into the mix for long enough, you can definitely become habituated to it making it extra hard to sleep on your own. Waking up too early is probably a good indicator of uncontrolled anxiety (as they like to say) being at play


#48 mimi10

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Posted 28 March 2021 - 03:31 PM

So on March 22, I went from 8 to 6 beads, then the next day I took 5 beads, Wednesday I kept it at 5 beads, Thursday morning  I decided to try 4 beads.  On Friday I couldn’t decide if I should do 4 again or try for 3 so I figured since I take it at 7am I could wait a couple hours to see how I was feeling and then decide.  Yesterday morning when I went to take my dose I discovered that I forgot to go back and take the dose as it was still there in Fridays compartment.  I figured I would risk it and just stop, so I did not take a dose yesterday or today.  My last dose was 7am Thursday morning.  So far things are tolerable, headache, tinnitus, fatigue and a little jittery, at times feel like my brain is sweating, very odd feeling.   Guess I’m still waiting for the withdrawal to come roaring in.  What do you guys, Hat and IUN, think.  When will the worst be coming for me and when will I feel myself again?  Thanks for helping me with this, much appreciated.


#49 fishinghat

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Posted 28 March 2021 - 03:38 PM

When will the worse happen? about 3 to 5 days after your last dose (give or take a week, lol).

 

When will you feel good again? Well that depends on how bad it gets in the next week or so. Keep us posted.


#50 mimi10

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Posted 03 April 2021 - 08:34 AM

Hat and IUN have been so very helpful and supportive to me so I wanted to come back with an update post cymbalta.
My last dose of cymbalta was March 25, things have been tolerable.  Headaches, fatigue and tinnitus most every day, Tylenol helps with headache, tinnitus is getting a little less.  I have always had tinnitus since chemo, a couple of the drugs in my chemo cocktail were ototoxic, but it was not this loud precymbalta.    
Jitters roll in once or twice a day, a nice walk outside helps with that however the past couple days have been cold and rainy so I’ve had to walk inside which is also a bit stressful because of covid.  Mirtazapine may be aiding the sleep but for some reason I wake up each morning about 4, don’t know why, hoping it will improve.  When I wake I do not feel anxiety or mind racing, still tired, still relaxed simply don’t fall back to sleep, usually just lay there and chill for a couple hours before starting the day.  I was trying to push myself to stay up beyond 10 thinking maybe that would help but haven’t been able to do that, so exhausted from waking up at 4.  Only been 10 days off so,hoping for more improvement in the coming days/weeks.  I do feel clearer headed and less foggy off cymbalta. 
I will update again on changes and thoughts and prayers for those still trying to get away from cymbalta.


#51 fishinghat

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Posted 03 April 2021 - 11:55 AM

I was wondering how you nwere doing mimi. Sounds like pretty good for this stage of the game. A very good sign. I am hoping things will not get worse but slowly get better. 


#52 invalidusername

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Posted 05 April 2021 - 01:46 PM

Well done... this all sounds very textbook for your part of the journey. Each day can bring its own challenges, but much like when you started the drug, the same applies - they eventually go.

 

If you are getting yourself to do things like walking - albeit inside, then that is a wonderful thing. The best thing is to try your best to keep going, don't look back. It is usually considered that after the first 2 weeks, you have got through the worst of it - assuming you did a relatively sensible taper/reduction which you did. 

 

It can seem like a lifetime waiting for it, but it really does sound like you are on the road to better places considering what we have heard from the countless others.

 

Hang in there and again, very well done.


#53 mimi10

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Posted 08 April 2021 - 10:34 AM

It has been 2 weeks since last dose of cymbalta.  There have been good days and not so good days.  The one thing that bothers me most is the anxious physical feeling that is present just about every day. It usually starts about 8 or 9 am and rolls in and out throughout the day but settles down usually by evening.  I have never had this before so am thinking it is still the cymbalta doing it.  I am on mirtazapine 7.5 to sleep, if I don’t take it I either don’t sleep at all or only an hour or two.  I looked online and don’t really see where that would be causing it. I’m hoping that it settles down soon, just an uncomfortable jitteriness.  Tinnitus is still around sometimes louder than others but I’ve always had a degree,albeit much lesser degree, since chemo.  That’s pretty much the update at two weeks off.  Hope everyone is winning in their battle with cymbalta.

Hat and IUN, the very best to both of you, would not have been able to or wanted to have made this journey without either of you.  Will continue to update, here’s hoping things keep improving.


#54 fishinghat

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Posted 08 April 2021 - 02:38 PM

You are way ahead of most people Mimi. Most don't see these types of symptoms until 7 or 8 months after their last dose. I know it is still uncomfortable to have the physical nervousness but it will fade with time. Cymbalta was controlling your norepiephrine levels when you were on it and now that you are off the excess norepinephrine is being converted to adrenaline and that causes the physical nervousness. Your body will adapt.


#55 invalidusername

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Posted 09 April 2021 - 08:30 AM

Just as Hat says, this is a very simply the norepinephrine that is kicking around doing this to you. It can take many guises, but generally, it is that nagging anxious feeling, so others it can come as a shaking or muscle weakness, which I had for around 10 weeks. At one point, I wouldn't walk unaided. Perfectly normal.

 

By the speed at which you have sailed through the rest of the symptoms, I would say that this part will follow course and that you should see improvements pretty quick. But set yourself some limits so you don't get disappointed. Don't expect to see improvement every day as the chemical is released circumstantially, or seemingly as and when it wants to. There is not rhyme or reason. But just let it be for a couple of weeks. Look for improvements every few days or weekly. It can unfortunately take time, but it WILL pass - that much I can assure you. 


#56 mimi10

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Posted 15 April 2021 - 04:33 PM

It has now been 3 weeks since my last dose of cymbalta.  Things were improving a little bit each day.  I probably shouldn’t have, but I started trying to reduce my dose of medical marijuana and it is just as bad as cymbalta.  The original dose was 1 gummy at an hour before bedtime that is 20cbd and 10 THC.  I cut 1/8 off the gummy as that was the smallest amount I could realistically cut.  Withdrawal started on day 3 and was pretty miserable, nausea, insomnia and anxiety.  I tweaked the dose again by cutting the gummy down to 3/4 of my original dose and things have remained pretty miserable, even with the mirtazapine I get about 4 hours sleep. Last night I nudged the dose down to 5/8 of the original dose. My goal was to try to get down to half my original dose because cutting it in half is an easier cut to make and on my next purchase at the dispensary I could buy a gummy that is 5cbd and 5 THC, then I was planning on doing a long hold through the summer before attempting to drop more.  At this point I am unsure if I just want to go back to the original dose and just wait until after summer to try to reduce the dose or continue to reduce til I get to the half dose mark.  I am pretty stubborn on trying to reduce this dose, especially because I am close to the goal of half dose but the withdrawal is pretty wicked.  From everything I see online, marijuana withdrawal takes about a month before things settle down.  Baseball and softball have started for the grandkids and we usually go to their games, I went to my grandson’s first game Tuesday but felt like a zombie sitting there.  Maybe some input is needed now, do I just go back to the full dose or stay the course and try to get down to a half dose?  Hat and IUN, I am especially interested in your opinions on this as you are both extremely experienced and knowledgeable about these things.  I look forward to hearing your thoughts.  Thank you so very much.


#57 fishinghat

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Posted 15 April 2021 - 05:06 PM

I have to admit that when it comes to marijuana details I am pretty much ignorant. I will certainly let IUN answer this one.


#58 invalidusername

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Posted 15 April 2021 - 06:45 PM

I applaud what you are doing here Mimi and it is clear that you are one of those people who just want to "rip the band aid off", but my advice is plain and simple. My advice summarised would be to reinstate the dose of the gummies, or at the very least reduce the THC but maintain the CBD levels.

 

To explain further;

 

The bottom line is that there is very limited research on how marijuana and CBD affects anti-depressants - even less on its use in withdrawal. For some CBD increases the effect as it prevents the brain from flushing out the additional serotonin, whilst conversely THC has been shown to do the opposite.

 

CBD carries more benefits for you during withdrawal, so I would recommend that you maintain that. There is no withdrawal at all, so there is no harm in continuing this and stopping when you are through the worst of it.

 

The THC carries a withdrawal of its own, and we never advocate the withdrawal of two psychotropic substances at the same time. Despite the limited research, from my knowledge, I would say that you are far better off waiting for the Cymbalta withdrawal to settle before stopping the THC. But again, if you really feel you want to, maintain the CBD level - you could also increase it gets too tough, again as it does not carry a withdrawal of it own

 

So you will need to source CBD gummies to counteract that which you are removing by cutting parts of your existing gummy which contains both.

 

Could you also tell me whether your gummies have THCa, which is the "medical grade", or if it is THC. Most of the timer it is the former... Always interested as the raw version of THC has little effect when consumed as raw product which is why it is changed to the acid substrate which breaks down to the THC...


#59 mimi10

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Posted 16 April 2021 - 06:46 AM

IUN, reading the label of the jar the troches come in says 20mg  CBD and 10mg THC.  Under ingredients it says cannabis oil.  They are made by a company called verano.  They are strawberry peach flavored and look similar to a gumdrop.  Last night I used 5/8 of a dose again and will be holding on tight to see how things go.  It seems like I feel the cut on day 3 and gets pretty intense for 3 or 4 days.  There are so many different theories online as to how long withdrawal from marijuana last, looks like the majority say about one month on average.  Whether I make it to a half dose or return to the original dose I plan on changing nothing else until after summer is over since the grandkids have ballgames and swim meets throughout which I would like to be able to attend.  My son has also planned a week at the beach in august which we usually accompany them on.  Any information you can provide is always appreciated.  
Hat, I appreciate you telling me that this was not your arena and deferring to IUN.  I would much rather be told that someone doesn’t know or isn’t sure than be given false information.  Thanks.


#60 invalidusername

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Posted 16 April 2021 - 07:10 PM

LOL - Hat always lets me handle those questions relating to the more "questionable" stuff like weed, CBD, Kratom etc. But I myself have never smoked - not even once. My grandfather, who more or less raised me died of lung cancer as he liked to have the odd puff on his pipe. That was enough for me...

 

Anyway. The withdrawal will be different from the gummies than it would be from withdrawing from smoking the leaf. Digesting THC doesn't have much effect at all which is why I asked as it should be the -a form which turns to the THC during ingestion, thus the withdrawal would be barely noticeable. 

 

So, if you have gone this far, you absolutely need to stop where you are, and if needed, get some cbd drops to get these levels back to where they were as again, this isn't something that requires a withdrawal. If anything, the CBD is an aid to the process.





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