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Tapering If Not Used For Long.


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#31 jc619

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Posted 09 April 2023 - 04:15 AM

Thanks guys for all your advice. 

 

That really is my problem. The pain never really established itself. I started duloxetine about the same time pain started when I was just getting tingling, so I can't tell what is what. Ditto the tinnitus - I have read that could be caused by neuropathy, but it also started after I started on duloxetine, which can also cause it. I'm absolutely focussed on every body sensation at the moment, so am attributing even normal twitches to this. Or I guess things could even caused by anxiety as this hasn't been an easy time

 

I just want to get to baseline really so I can work out what's what.

 

So an update. I'm on day 6 now. Not many side-effects so far and feeling OK. Getting tingling/crawling in various places now and again and the odd twinge in my feet, but not sure how much of that is withdrawal or neuropathy. Still got tinnitus. Yesterday I had a really good day with hardly any pain at all. Tonight I drop down to 7.5mg for 5 days. Fingers crossed!

 

For my spare beads to use after next Thursday (sorry to go on about these), does a 3.75mg dose (21 beads) sound right if I need them in days 1-3, and then drop down to emergency capsules with 1.87mg (10 beads) on days 4-5 if needed?


#32 fishinghat

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Posted 09 April 2023 - 07:59 AM

 "We have seen people prescribed Cymbalta for pain only to end up being depressed and/or anxious. "

 

That is very very true IUN. So sad

 

"For my spare beads to use after next Thursday (sorry to go on about these), does a 3.75mg dose (21 beads) sound right if I need them in days 1-3, and then drop down to emergency capsules with 1.87mg (10 beads) on days 4-5 if needed?"

 

just my opinion but given the small amount of symptoms you are experiencing I would just go to to 10 beads for your emergency capsules. At this point I think it would be enough.


#33 invalidusername

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Posted 09 April 2023 - 02:59 PM

I agree with Hat here, but stick with that plan to come off the capsules on Weds.

 

If you are still having doubts regarding the symptoms then we can address that, but as I said before, expect a little uncomfort as a result when Thursday gets here.

 

If it continues into the weekend, or you get a shock of a particular symptom, that is what the emergency beads are for, but do not rely on them. As I said, there will be moments of discomfort which will be uncomfortable, but be your own judge when you feel enough is enough and take those 10 beads to take the edge off, but leave it 24 hours until you do so again at the most, otherwise you will end u with a continual withdrawal - something you do not want.

 

IUN 


#34 jc619

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Posted 09 April 2023 - 03:47 PM

Thanks IUN,

 

My last scheduled day on 7.5mg is Thursday. 

 

From tonight I drop down to a 7.5mg dose. When I dropped to 15mg I had a few withdrawal symptoms but then seemed to stabilise. I'm a little uncomfortable tonight (bit of pain in my hands and feet, but not too bad at the moment).

 

If I get withdrawal symptoms while I'm taking 7.5mg, do you think I should have an extra 10 beads? I assume it's better to tough it out, but wondering what you'd recommend if that's not possible?

 

I guess I'm getting a bit nervous at this stage! It's not just withdrawal for me, it's what if I then get neuropathy pain.

 

Thanks in advance.

 

JC619.


#35 fishinghat

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Posted 09 April 2023 - 04:37 PM

Like IUN said... "expect a little uncomfort" but "when you feel enough is enough and take those 10 beads to take the edge off, but leave it 24 hours until you do so again at the most, otherwise you will end u with a continual withdrawal". You will be Ok. hang in there.


#36 invalidusername

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Posted 09 April 2023 - 05:14 PM

Thank you Hat - I cannot say more than that.

 

Bit of a rough ride, but do all you can to hang on through it....

 

IUN


#37 jc619

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Posted 10 April 2023 - 02:43 AM

Hi guys, thanks for all your advice. 

 

Fingers crossed that I'm one of the lucky ones that doesn't get hit too hard. What I don't want to do is reach for extra tablets unnecessarily if I think pain that may be coming from withdrawal is actually coming from neuropathy, and so draw this out any longer than needed. But also appreciate it's almost impossible to tell the difference.

 

Anyway, I took my first 7.5mg capsule last night. Do you think I should be expecting withdrawal symptoms yet?

 

I'll keep you updated.

 

JC619.


#38 fishinghat

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Posted 10 April 2023 - 07:41 AM

It would take a few days (3 to 5 usually).


#39 jc619

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Posted 10 April 2023 - 08:35 AM

Thanks Fishinghat,

 

A quick question. When you're tapering, is the intention to avoid withdrawal symptoms entirely, or to reduce them with each drop so they hit you less hard? 

 

For example, when I went from 30mg to 0mg cold-turkey, within 48 hours I was feeling pretty bad. But when I regrouped and dropped from 30mg to 15mg, it still felt as though I was getting some withdrawal symptoms - I was occasionally feeling dizzy, some extra pain for a while, a little bit more anxious. But they were all in manageable levels and then stabilised. 

 

Now I've dropped 15mg to 7.5mg I feel a bit the same - mainly light-headed and a bit dizzy. Nothing serious though. And had some foot pain last night but seems OK today. 

 

Sorry for all the questions, you set me thinking. In a weird way this is quite an interesting topic that I've shackled myself to!


#40 fishinghat

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Posted 10 April 2023 - 10:07 AM

Don't apologize for the questions JC. That is why we are here. I certainly asked a million questions when I did my withdrawal. 

 

For most the idea is to simply reduce the withdrawal symptoms to tolerable levels with a slow wean. 


#41 jc619

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Posted 10 April 2023 - 11:09 AM

Thanks Fishinghat,

 

In that case one more question!  :)

 

When people taper, do they generally get mild withdrawal symptoms along the way like I (think I) have so far, or is it when they are finished they normally experience them?

 

JC619.


#42 fishinghat

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Posted 10 April 2023 - 11:40 AM

Of course, a lot of that depends on how fast they wean but most get moderate to severe symptoms once they drop below 30 mg and horrible symptoms when below 10 beads. These symptoms can last 2 to 3 years. Of course, there is some that have no withdrawal symptoms at all. Some research suggests that only 20 to 40% have any withdrawal. Oh, aren't we lucky? NOT.


#43 invalidusername

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Posted 10 April 2023 - 05:21 PM

Sorry I couldn't be here to help today - long day, but as usual Hat has done his bang up job of answering your questions perfectly.

 

Look forward to hearing how the rest of it goes...

 

IUN


#44 jc619

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Posted 11 April 2023 - 06:16 AM

Thanks IUN,

 

Please don't apologise, both you guys have helped me more than I could ask for!

 

I think it's going OK, but don't want to get too confident only to be bitten later on, so I'm taking it cautiously. I have all my capsules made up, including 10-bead emergencies. Already some of the side-effects I had with duloxetine seem less. Not the tinnitus though, which I understand can get worse before/if it gets better. Today it does seem worse, but fingers crossed.

 

I have a few questions:

 

1. Are there any go-to supplements that you would recommend to anyone trying to wean? I can see that there are a boat-load of suggestions over the forums but I'd be spending lots of money if I tried a fraction of them! I'm already taking quite a few supplements & b-vitamins for neuropathy already in the hope they help, and have just started taking L-Theanine as well as I see it gets good reports on here. Is there anything obvious I'm missing?

 

2. As I leave duloxetine, my challenges and my attention will undoubtedly turn towards the peripheral neuropathy. I don't know if this is something that you guys would know, but with my peripheral neuropathy I get tingling/tremors (which is tolerable), and sometimes a bit of pain (not so good). I'm trying to work out what to expect now. Does duloxetine reduce the amount of tingling, or is it just pain as it's a different mechanism? I ask because last night my foot was tingling lots. I'm working out if that's a withdrawl thing, a rebound thing, or purely chance (it could be like that sometimes anyway). From what I can see duloxetine and other drugs talk much about pain reduction, but not a reduction in other symptoms such as tingling.

 

Thanks in advance,

 

JC619.


#45 invalidusername

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Posted 11 April 2023 - 04:23 PM

The supplements are a very good idea, but they will depends on the symptoms that you get at the time. People can get anxiety, brain-zaps, exhaustion - all of which can be treated with different supplements.

 

Go easy on the B supplements. Some are safe, but others in too large quantities are not a good idea - can you let us know what it is you are taking?

 

L-Theanine is quite safe and can be good for calming overall and reduce anxiety. Again, what doses are you taking and when?

 

Your second question is best suited for Hat. My immediate response would be Lion's Mane Mushroom or NAC. Both of which Hat knows a lot more than I. I am sure he will be along later or tomorrow to help you out with this....

 

IUN


#46 jc619

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Posted 12 April 2023 - 05:12 AM

Hi guys,

 

It's quite a mix, so I probably look like an Internet nutter! I'm rattling when I walk at the moment.

 

You'll probably be aware that for anything related to nerves there's a lot about b-vitamins. I'm following a protocol I found online by some doctors (the Nerve Doctors on YouTube if you want to take a look) who say they've had great results at their US clinic with the following supplements alongside red-light therapy. So each day I'm using a red-light machine and taking the following (split dose is when I split it through the day):

  • R-Alpha Lipoic Acid - 600mg
  • Benfotiamine (B1) - 600mg (split dose)
  • Methylcobalamin (B12) - 1200ug taken as sublingual spray
  • Pyridoxal-5-Phoshate (B6) -100 mg (split dose)
  • Folate/Folic Acid (B9) - 400ug
  • Evening primrose oil - 1000mg
I'm supposed to be taking these as well, but have temporarily paused them as they may increase tinnitus (I need to do a bit of an experiment or wait until it's hopefully passed):
  • Acetyl L Carnitine - 1500 mg (split dose)
  • L-Citrulline - 1000mg

I'm also taking these even though they aren't a part of the protocol:

  • Vitamin D - 4000ui along with vitamin K2 (as I was found to be borderline insufficient)
  • L-Theanine - 400mg

And I'm also looking into the following as they are also supposed to support nerve regeneration:

  • Krill oil
  • Turmeric
  • Berberine
  • N-acetyl Cysteine  - NAC
  • Resveratrol 

It's a bit of a punt because many doctors will say that nerves can't be regenerated once damaged. Others say they can be, but as one of the slowest-growing parts of the body it takes time, patience and the correct long-term plan. There seem to be quiet a few studies to back this up regarding pain improvement and regeneration. I'm hoping it's not just a baseless way for these guys to make money through their clinic (although I'm not giving them any money directly myself, just following their plan), but at the end of the day, I have to try something. The supplements recommended seem to be recommended by other doctors as well. 

 

There are interesting theories about how the medical industry doesn't really respond well unless medicine instantly fixes things vs a longer approach with supplements, or wants people to use revenue-generating drugs rather than supplements. The incentive is there to put people on pain-killer drugs like cymbalta for many years (equals £££s), which seems to be what's happening for neuropathy pain. 


#47 fishinghat

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Posted 12 April 2023 - 08:49 AM

1) For things that can help I would refer you to these posts.

              Meeting Psy Tomorrow - ARE YOU NEW HERE? Words from the wise about Cymbalta - Cymbalta / Duloxetine Withdrawal Support and Cymbalta Side Effects Help (cymbaltawithdrawal.com)

 

2) You are right, Cymbalta has a different pain mechanism and seems to only effect pain and not so much on the tingling but see note below.

 

Holy cow JC, it is no wonder that you are having issues. Especially the vitamin B6. Some of those are very excessive doses and especially the B6 which can cause peripheral neuropathy. My wife was taking 5 mg a day and developed vitamin B6 toxicity. Vitamin B6 has a 28 day half-life if I remember right. There is a section on vitamin toxicity in the ebook. Man, I could write a book about why these things could be an issue. 

 

The five listed below have all been linked to improving BDNF and nerve health but you don't need to take but one of them. Tumeric is also good for inflammation but can be hard on the stomach. Krill oil is because of the omega 3 content but be careful to get one that does not contain mercury. I would suggest you spend some time in the ebook looking at pros and cons on each of these vitamins and supplements. It could be time well spent.


#48 jc619

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Posted 12 April 2023 - 11:21 AM

Hi Fishinghat,

 

Thanks for your honest feedback. Certainly some food for thought there and it's much appreciated! 

 

All issues began way before I began to take these supplements. (Or duloxetine). The Nerve Doctor's take is that RDA amounts are recommended to maintain the status quo. If you want to fix specific issues then you need to up the daily intakes.

 

I did do a bit of research. For example B6 is supposed to cause toxicity that leads to neropathy at 1000mg/day. Occasionally there have been reports at 100mg - 300mg/day. But under 200mg/day is generally considered safe. However, I hear what you say about yor wife and it certainly serves as a warning. I guess everyone is different, and some people may have naturally high levels to start with. She must have been pretty unlucky to get toxicity at such a low dose as 5mg.

 

B6 actually stuck out as the odd one to me in the list, especially when I heard excess levels can cause toxity and peripheral neuropathy. What I think I'll do for B6, with your warning ringing in my ears is drop down to 50mg/day as that seems like a load more than anyone needs and it puts me into a safer zone, and maybe go get a private B6 test (which may also rule it out as a cause of my neuropathy - the doctor didn't test this!). I'll also take a look through the rest - maximimum values and half-lifes and the ebook as well, and make sure all my levels put me into a 'safe' zone. I certainly don't need to cause myself any other unnecessary problems, so thanks again for your advice. It's always useful to get someone's perspective on things as you can sometimes not see the wood for the trees.

 

I think for now I need to coccentrate on my duloxetine wean. And then I'll hopefully have a bit more headspace to take a pragmatic look at my next steps. Everything is getting a bit mixed together like a soup since I began on duloxetine!

 

I have 2 x 7.5mg capsules left. One for tonight and the one tomorrow night. And then (hopefully) I will be done. I still have tinnitus, but it seems to be changing a bit - sometimes better and sometimes worse, so something seems to be happening. A new thing for me at the moment is that I'm really having trouble sleeping, probably only getting 3 hours a night. Weird, as when I started duloxetine I was instantly sleepy. That changed over the next few weeks and now it's the opposite. Strangely I'm not that tired, and I can't really nap. I'll be glad when that goes back to normal though. We all need sleep!

 

If I end up taking the 10-bead capsules, is the idea to just last as long as I can before taking another? I don't want to revert back to 1 per day unless absolutely needed.

 

Thanks again!


#49 fishinghat

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Posted 12 April 2023 - 02:33 PM

"I did do a bit of research. For example B6 is supposed to cause toxicity that leads to neropathy at 1000mg/day. Occasionally there have been reports at 100mg - 300mg/day. But under 200mg/day is generally considered safe. However, I hear what you say about yor wife and it certainly serves as a warning. I guess everyone is different, and some people may have naturally high levels to start with. She must have been pretty unlucky to get toxicity at such a low dose as 5mg."

 

I have seen those research articles as well and many are short term (say 1 to 3 weeks, occasionally 12). One must remember that with a half life of 28 days it builds up to toxic levels in a very short time. B6 toxicity along with selenium and multivitamin toxicity are the most common toxic cases seen in the ER according to an Emergency Room doctor here. Like I say I will provide more data later on these. I am glad that you do your research and encourage you to continue this approach in the future. 

 

" The Nerve Doctor's take is that RDA amounts are recommended to maintain the status quo."

 

true but remember the RDA is not established for the amount of a material to be taken as a supplement but the average amount to be ingested (diet plus supplement) on a daily basis. 

 

More to follow...


#50 invalidusername

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Posted 12 April 2023 - 03:53 PM

....told you that Hat was the guy for this!! :)


#51 fishinghat

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Posted 12 April 2023 - 05:21 PM

Vitamin B6 Toxicity
 
National Institute of Health
 Food and Nutrition Board (FNB) at the Institute of Medicine of the National Academies (formerly National Academy of Sciences) has established a maximum UL (daily upper limit) of 100 mg/day for adults.
 
We describe seven adults who had ataxia and severe sensory-nervous-system dysfunction after daily high-level pyridoxine (vitamin B6) consumption. Four were severely disabled; all improved after withdrawal. Weakness was not a feature of this condition, and the central nervous system was clinically spared. Although consumption of large doses of pyridoxine has gained wide public acceptance, this report indicates that it can cause sensory neuropathy or neuronopathy syndromes and that safe guidelines should be established for the use of this widely abused vitamin.
 
My wife's history of vitamin B6 toxicity. 
RDA is 1.5 to 2 mg/day.
My wife's supplements, without consideration of her dietary intake, was 5 mg/d for 2 1/2 years. 
The treating dr immediately recognized her symptoms as from B6 toxicity and said it happens frequently.
 
Half-Life is 15 to 24 days.
 
A spreadsheet based on bioaccumulation showed that her levels after 2 years and 1/2 could have been equal to around the same as a single dose of 550 mg buildup in her body based on a 80% absorption rate.
A spread sheet that considered bioelimination calculated that her blood levels should return to near normal levels within 6 months. This does not give consideration to her diet which has a substantial number of B6 containing vegetables. After 8 months her symptoms were gone including her peripheral neuropathy.
 
Many of the supplements on Amazon have from 20 to 100 mg/day of Vitamin B6 and with a half life of 15 to 24 days would allow toxic levels to be obtained with continuous use. 
 
Pyridoxine neuropathy.
A case of sensory neuropathy in a young woman due to long-term ingestion of pyridoxine, with subsequent recovery, is described. Pyridoxine neuropathy may occur after the long-term ingestion of doses as low as 200 mg a day. Because of its widespread use in the community, both the general public and the medical community need to be aware of this recently described complication of megavitamin therapy.
 
A newly recognised neurotoxic syndrome due to pyridoxine (B6) overdose is described. It is the largest series of B6 intoxication hitherto reported.T A raised serum B6 level was present in 172 women of whom 60% had neurological symptoms, which disappeared when B6 was withdrawn and reappeared in 4 cases when B6 was restarted. The mean dose of B6 in the 103 women with neurological symptoms was 117 +/- 92 mgs, compared with 116.2 +/- 66 mgs in the control group. There was a significant difference (P less than 0.01) in the average duration of ingestion of B6 in the neurotoxic group of 2.9 +/- 1.9 years compared with 1.6 +/- 2.1 years in controls. The symptoms were paraesthesia, hyperaesthesia, bone pains, muscle weakness, numbness and fasciculation, most marked on the extremities and predominantly bilateral unless there was a history of previous trauma to the limb. These women were taking a lower dose of B6 than previously described (1,2), which may account for the complete recovery within 6 months of stopping B6.
 
Vitamin B-6 toxicity cannot occur from eating natural foods, but it can occur from supplementing with its synthetic form, pyridoxine. The recommended dietary allowance of vitamin B-6 for adults is no more than 2 mg daily, but toxicity is not thought to occur until ingesting at least 100 mg daily, if not 500 mg daily, for many weeks consecutively. Some people do mega-dose pyridoxine for long enough to cause toxicity, which leads to symptoms ranging from temporarily irritating to permanent and disabling.
 
Vitamin B6 (pyridoxine) causes neuropathy at intakes of 1000 mg per day or more, which is about 800 times the daily intake from foods. There have also been occasional reports of toxicity at intakes of 100-300 mg per day. The US authorities set the no-observed-adverse-effect-level at 200 mg per day and the safe upper limit at 100 mg per day. 
 
Supplementation with pyridoxine at doses greater than 50 mg/d for extended duration may be harmful and should be discouraged. 
 
 
Because of suppliments and certain medical therapies including some chemotherapies, vitamin B6 toxicity is becoming much more common. 
 
Note - A search of vitamin B6 supplements on Amazon shows that many supplements currently on the market are well above the recommended dietary allowances. The long half life allows for toxic levels to build rapidly. 

#52 fishinghat

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Posted 12 April 2023 - 05:23 PM

I will look at some of the other supplements and reviewing them as time permits.


#53 invalidusername

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Posted 12 April 2023 - 07:13 PM

Given time I would help, but Hat is right on the money here.

 

People have been taken into to hospital for overdosing on vitamin B - just one quick search;

 

https://jamanetwork....abstract/600605

 

This is serious.

 

People think that they cannot overdose on vitamins, but nothing could be further from the truth, hence the reason why I asked.

 

I understand a fair amount of what is viable, thus soluble, in the human tract, but Hat does know more than me regarding vitamins which is why I handed it over to him, but do not underestimate the seriousness of the overingestation of vitamins can do to one's nervous system - particularly whilst on such medication.

 

Again, a word that you will not hear from a doctor. 

 

Overingestation of certain vitamins (specifically vitamin B ) can be vital to your recovery - please take heed and await Hat's recommendation.

 

IUN


#54 jc619

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Posted 13 April 2023 - 06:24 AM

Thanks guys... wow! So let's pause the b-vitamins for now. Are you guys sure you're happy to help me? I feel as though you've done loads for me already.

 

Interestingly, on the Adventures In Supplementation thread, my protocol looks suspiciously like the 'Neurovascular Suppot/Nerve Health/Brain Health Supplements', but without B6 and B12. As you say though, I am taking the lot of them. 

 

Interestingly, I was taking a b-vitamin complex for a long time prior to this. I checked this morning and it has 5mg of B6 in. I also used to take a 1000 mcg B12 supplement as I'm diabetic. My neuropathy started very strangely. My diabetes is very well controlled and I've never had issues, always told I have good circulation. Before Xmas I developed a really bad chest infection. It took an age for me to get over, and I had to take two courses of antibiotics and steroids. I also took an immune boost medicine as well into the new year as I just felt under-par for weeks after (that looks like it also included 10mg B6). I then developed a really bad back,and in the middle of that my right foot started tingling. I assumed that was related to the back issue, but the back is now better and the tingling has spread to other parts of my body and has turned into pain sometimes in my feet. Doctors has already ran some blood tests for my bad back and sent me to a physio. Nothing was found so are using those results to say there's nothing underlying other than diabetes. So as I'm diabetic, it will be caused by my diabetes without further investigation. Whereas when I search the web I can see there are plenty of other reasons. 

 

I'm still searching for a potential 'mystery' cause of my neuropthy (ie. if it isn't diabetes). I'm generally a supplement freak, which you may have realised. So I wonder if there's something in this? I've found a place for a private B6 test locally. It's a bit expensive, but I may do that as for some reason it was one that my doctor didn't test for. Also interesting that B6 defficiency causes tingling, so maybe another reason for testing.

 

I'm hopeful that some nerve regeneration is possible, or at least halt progression. Maybe there's a bit of denial going on. It's all happened so quickly and I think I'll find it depressing if not and I've ran out of options. I really don't want to find myself back on anxiety meds for pain if it gets worse after my experiences on duloxetine. My immediate question is that there are some go-to supplements that seem universally accepted for peripheral neuropathy - alpha lipoic acid looks like the main one. Do you think I'm OK to keep on using that, or are any better/others?

 

I think I need to get off duloxetine first (it's my last 7.5mg tablet tonight and then I'm off entirely) and then take a look at what on earth I should be doing. I was in quite a lot of pain last night (hopefully rebound pain), so need to get this part behind me. Thanks again for all your support, it hasn't been an easy few months.

 

A quick question for you though Fishinghat. When your wife had B6 overdose did she get tingling symptoms in her feet? Did it turn to pain? Was it anywhere else?

 

JC619


#55 invalidusername

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Posted 13 April 2023 - 03:20 PM

"Also interesting that B6 defficiency causes tingling"

 

On the contrary, too much B6 can cause loss of feeling in limb extremities - known as peripheral neuropathy as already said. I would suggest a test if it is viable, as you said yourself that everyone is different in this respect. 

 

We are always here to help you - do not worry about that. But do not forget about the half life that Hat has mentioned. It can take considerable time for the B vitamin to be removed from your system. 

 

I would wait for Hat to come back on this for further information, again, as he has more expertise in this area.

 

IUN


#56 jc619

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Posted 13 April 2023 - 04:37 PM

Thanks IUN,

 

Yeah, I meant both too low and too high B6 causes neuropathy. With such a clear link, I'm a bit miffed the doctor didn't test my levels. I am absolutely off the B6 and will get tested!

 

I'll wait for Hat. 

 

Meanwhile... last duloxetine tonight (hopefully).

 

JC619


#57 invalidusername

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Posted 13 April 2023 - 05:28 PM

No problem...

 

Never guess the levels as there is no other way than to have your bloods taken. 

 

I am a complete coward when it comes to bloods (depsite being cover in tattoos - go figure!!), but this is the only way.

 

I'm sure Hat will be back tomorrow and will give his opinion, in the meantime, stay in touch and let me know about the last day!!!

 

You are doing really well.

 

IUN


#58 fishinghat

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Posted 14 April 2023 - 07:12 AM

Sorry for my absence. She had neuropathy in her arms and calves and left foot. 

 

I hope to get some more work done on your other supplements this evening so hang in there and good luck on the last drop of Cymbalta. My instincts are that you will be OK. I should mention that my wife says my instincts are often wrong though.  lol

 

As IUN said, we are here to help. You really don't need to worry about that. I just really appreciate your patience with me as sometimes matters in life come up and other things have to wait but I will get there.

 

The major medical facilities in my area do not want to do vitamin and mineral scans. They only do those when there is no other obvious other medical reason and/or the patient raises the issue strongly. Dumb.  Be back on line later today.


#59 jc619

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Posted 14 April 2023 - 05:32 PM

Hi Fishinghat,

 

Absolutely no worries. Again, thanks. 

 

JC619.


#60 fishinghat

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Posted 15 April 2023 - 08:27 AM

OK, back in the "real" world again. 

 

I have set up a worksheet on my computer related to the supplements you take and will begin looking to see if I notice any issues and let you know. 

 

Meanwhile hang in there with your weaning and I hope all has gone well since that last dose. 





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