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Tapering After 8 Weeks


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#1 looneytune

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Posted 30 September 2023 - 11:43 AM

Been on 30mg for 4 weeks

Then up to 60mg for 2 weeks

Then back down to 40mg for 2 weeks.... by the time my next week appoint comes up, 05th Oct

 

It's been 17 days of severe diarrhoea 3 or 4 and up to 5 times day. This morning when I was standing for pee ( drug has appeared to slow urine flow too)

it was coming from both ends at once...relax the bum department and out it squirts. I thought FU8K IT! I have had enough of this SH8T

 

A couple of months ago doc tried me on these bloody tablets and I gave up after 10 days of hell but she ever so slightly scolded me and asked me to try longer and results can't be expected in 10 days and I would have to push on through the hurt to reach the land of faeries and happy people, so I started again and the first 3 lines of post is recent timetable of 2nd attempt on tabs. Diarrhoea started on 2nd week of upgrade to 60mg

 

After two weeks ( because of the runs) the doctor suggested a drop of 60mg to 40mg and it was not TOO bad...a few bad days but I managed but dose reduction made no difference to the runs

 

So dear reader, before even consulting doc on Thursday I am tapering and stopping these sh*t tablets...would a drop of 20mg down to 20mg be OK?

 

and how long would I sit on my new dose of 20mg before stopping completely?

 

So that would be 40 to 20 to nothing....that doable you think? considering my relatively short time on these things

 

I think a wee sedative* type thing at night (COPD friendly) would help my anxiety and I could deal with the depression as and when

 

*Can't take Mirtazapine because of the FX it has on my breathing

 

Thanks peeps


#2 invalidusername

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Posted 30 September 2023 - 12:32 PM

Ok... so if you have been on 40mg for 2 weeks (down from 60mg), then I wuld say that you are safe to go to 20mg.
 
Clearly everyone is different in how they manage the withdrawal, but I would say you should be ok. You may get some head fog, anxiety and a few mood swings, which will kick in around 3 days after the drop, but you should also notice a difference with the runs at the same time and gradually getting better towards the end a week of withdrawal. 
 
That drop to 0mg can be a bit of a sting, but you need to understand that going from 60mg to 40mg was a drop of 33%, then you will be drop by 50% going from 40mg to 20mg. Then your final drop would be 100%, which is why we often tell our members to slow down at this point.
 
Just keep listening to your body and you will know where and when to go.
 
IUN

#3 invalidusername

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Posted 30 September 2023 - 12:49 PM

Just a reminder - should it help you, but I went through EXACTLY the same thing as you.

 

Your timeline is almost identical to mine. You can even find my backstory on this forum. I know exactly what it is like to have to run to the bathroom umpteen times a day. 

 

I just could not stand it and wanted it to end there and then, but my withdrawal sucked - even though I was tapering over to another drug at the time (Escitalopram - Lexapro to our US family). 

 

I really feel for you going through this as it brings up painful memories. But I have been through worse, and remember, there is an expiry date on these issues. It WILL subside.

 

To quote Hat's favourite phrase... "time and patience".

 

IUN


#4 looneytune

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Posted 30 September 2023 - 01:08 PM

Yes I should listen to my own body thanks but a ball park figure at "parking" at the 20mg....one week...two?

 

Oh, I forgot.......I only have 40mg caps at the moment.....should I open one and HALF the beads until I see doctor for proper 20mg caps?

 

and later, should I do the 20 to zero or consider something else like 10mg?

 

Thank you Sir  :)


#5 invalidusername

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Posted 30 September 2023 - 02:26 PM

I would suggest 2 weeks at 20mg if you can manage it before the final drop. But be prepared for 3-5 days of a rough ride when you do the final drop.

 

If you have only 40mg caps, then you will need to bead count, which is, granted, a royal pain in the ass.

 

But you can follow our many guides on the site of in the eBook. 

 

Just open up the capsule, and bunch of wee balls will come out (unless you have the "big bead" version, then it will be far easier). But the odds are on that you will have a load of little beads around 1mm or less in diameter. So you will need to remove half of these little beads, and leave the rest in the capsule. Best way is to empty the capsule contents onto some black fabric to aid friction and observation. Best guess is that you will have around 40-80 of these little sods in each capsule. Toss half of them aside, and put the rest in the capsule and there is your 20mg dose. Simple!!

 

IMPORTANT!!! - DO NOT take 40mg every other day (to achieve 20mg/day). It will make you worse. Due to the half life of these little bastards, you need to make sure you take a dose every 24 hours.

 

Please come back to me with any issues and I will help you. It can be quite daunting if you haven't done it before, but this is, by far, the best way to operate a safe and comfortable withdrawal!!

 

Keep me informed!

 

IUN


#6 looneytune

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Posted 30 September 2023 - 04:02 PM

Will do....thanks you :)


#7 fishinghat

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Posted 01 October 2023 - 07:25 AM

It looks like IUN has you well covered. I fully agree.


#8 looneytune

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Posted 01 October 2023 - 09:53 AM

I did the bead counting this morning and it went OK (20mg)

 

The efficacy of these meds are continuing to work on me......deeper sleeps/lazyness/bizarre dreams...I am getting on soon for 8 weeks (Thursday)

 

One thing about these tabs that has NEVER IMPROVED is the lethargy/tiredness. I have been a fanatical morning walker for 35 years and have not been over the door in 3 weeks

 

Would the diarrhoea 3 or 4 times a day for 3 weeks make me feel weak also?

 

Between the diarrhoea weakness and Cymbalta lethargy and excess time spent in bed I feel I am in wind down/training for death mode :)

 

If these tabs work for you I am so happy for y'all but they have pick pocketed my zest for life/personality and hope for the future......they are some baaaaad ass sh*t and I can't wait to get off them. WTF am I gonna do next? I have no idea

 

Citalopram/sertraline/Venlafaxine/ had to stop 'em all for valid reasons

 

John


#9 fishinghat

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Posted 01 October 2023 - 05:00 PM

"Would the diarrhoea 3 or 4 times a day for 3 weeks make me feel weak also?"

Absolutely

 

"...pick pocketed my zest for life/personality and hope for the future."

Oh, they sure can do that!!

 

Next would be kratom. then there is always Prozac or Lexapro. One other thing to consider is Wellbutrin. It does not work with serotonin or norepinephrine but instead it works on dopamine. When "standard" ssri or snri don't cooperate then Wellbutrin is worth a try.

 

You know, I was thinking about your diarrhea issue and was wondering if your dr would try hyoscyamine. many have good success with that med. Something to talk to him about.


#10 invalidusername

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Posted 01 October 2023 - 08:15 PM

Following on from Hat's post.... please... if you have done the rounds of the western meds of depression/anxiety - look towards the east. 

 

They have had it right for a long time.

 

If nothing else - PLEASE look up the work of Professor David Nutt regarding Psilocybin.

 

David Nutt worked for the British Government for a long time until he made significant discoveries that Psilocybin (aka Magic Mushrooms), had a FAR FAR greater effect on curing depression and anxiety as it simply "re-wires" the brain, rather than masks the problem that exists when using SSRI's.

 

But what happened? The UK Government kicked him out of his position because he didn't fall in line that would make the UK government all their tax ££££.

 

PLEASE trust me. Look at Professor Nutt's papers since he went back into academia. The route to curing our sort of ailments is from Eastern medicine.

 

Just look at the stats of how many people in the East suffer from depression etc, compared to that in the West. 

 

The western drug manufacturers are all about the almighty dollar. 

 

Even Russia use Phenibut, which is far better than pharma based drugs.

 

Please listen - I have been there and "done that" - all of the alternatives. I am convinced that Eastern medicine is far better than what we have in the west.

 

If it grows from the ground, then it cannot be taxed. Think about that for a moment..

 

.......

 

.......

 

Are you with me?

 

Talk to me - I can help you. Stop going through all this pharma-based rubbish. I WANT to help people like you. I have nothing to loose, but your own wellbeing. I have been stuck on Citalopram for 15 years (a BAD thing), and am slowly working my way through back to emotional freedom with the above.

 

IUN


#11 looneytune

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Posted 02 October 2023 - 05:11 AM

Thanks guys, will research and consider all...........is it my IMAGINATION but am already feeling more down today and glum and night time headaches 24 hours after dropping from 40mg to 20?


#12 fishinghat

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Posted 02 October 2023 - 05:48 AM

Probably not your imagination. It will pass with time.


#13 looneytune

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Posted 02 October 2023 - 09:52 AM

Will I ever lose the lethargy? 8 weeks in, that's what hits me most.....would it subside with ongoing use....eventually?

 

PS Wellbrutin not licensed in UK for anything other than stopping cigs!


#14 fishinghat

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Posted 02 October 2023 - 05:02 PM

Typically the lethargy lets up 1 to 3 months after the last dose but that varies a lot.


#15 invalidusername

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Posted 02 October 2023 - 07:11 PM

The issue is that Duloxotine is an SNRI, rather than an SSRI, so it controls norepinephrine, which is the precursor to adrenaline, so when stopped, your body has to learn how to balance it all on its own. So much like every other chemical than these drugs take control over, your brain has to work it all out by adjusting the amount of each neurochemical until it is right and your homeostasis returns.

 

Personally speaking, I went through a month of hell with this. At worst, one of those weeks, I could not even support myself. When I went for a walk, I had to borrow my Dad's walking sticks!! 

 

But it WILL go.

 

IUN


#16 looneytune

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Posted 03 October 2023 - 08:27 AM

The issue is that Duloxotine is an SNRI, rather than an SSRI, so it controls norepinephrine, which is the precursor to adrenaline, so when stopped, your body has to learn how to balance it all on its own. So much like every other chemical than these drugs take control over, your brain has to work it all out by adjusting the amount of each neurochemical until it is right and your homeostasis returns.

 

Personally speaking, I went through a month of hell with this. At worst, one of those weeks, I could not even support myself. When I went for a walk, I had to borrow my Dad's walking sticks!! 

 

But it WILL go.

 

IUN

FFS how long were YOU on them?

 

Reporting in this morning,well afternoon really, most of day thus far in bed and oddly enough sleeping for the 1st time in MONTHS

 

Head and eye sockets sore and feeling of anxiety and dread again returning or just showing up for laffs.....sore lower stomach with all the, and continuing, shitz

even the audio senses appear messed up

 

Seeing doc on Thursday for proper 20mg caps ( I've been 1/2ing the 40's).....when stable on the 20mg I will ask you guys for wot's next

 

Don't laff, it's got so bad that I have been watching Jordan Peterson and his discovery of God....I'm a RC and thinking of returning to services....ain't been since I was a kid

why not, I've tried everything else? God once a week with glass of water..........man this duloxetine blows yet it must work for lots of folk but they would be unlikely to start a site for it,right?


#17 fishinghat

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Posted 03 October 2023 - 12:29 PM

I was on it 5 years LT.


#18 looneytune

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Posted 03 October 2023 - 12:43 PM

Yikes!


#19 invalidusername

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Posted 03 October 2023 - 07:04 PM

I was on it 10 weeks and had all the crap that you are going through. But sometimes that is all it takes.

 

One of our late, and dearly loved members, Gail, was also on it 10 weeks and she went through hell on it as well.


#20 looneytune

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Posted 04 October 2023 - 08:54 AM

Guys can someone with depression and a touch of anxiety beat the black dog with just positive mind/meditation/REGULAR exercise and keeping a busy mind and body? I expect it would take some time though

 

Other than a breakdown of sorts 11 years ago I have not been much of a tablet person at all and always dealt with my own sh*t ,myself. I don't think these meds are for me TBH

 

10.000 members you say? I ain't complaining,and I am grateful, but how come only two people are speaking to me?

 

Day 5 of step down from 40 to 20 and if the house was on fire I'd just sit in it until carried out by a passer by. That's the energy and frame of mind today

 

Would two weeks on this current step down dose 40/20 suffice considering my relatively short spell on these wonderful meds?

 

I just researched the net today and discovered there is a 10mg capsule, ya fu*king hoo, I don't wanna drag it out any more than I need but would a handful of weeks on the 10mg and then STOP, finish the process? I have heard the last hurdle is the WORST!

 

John


#21 fishinghat

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Posted 04 October 2023 - 09:07 AM

"Guys can someone with depression and a touch of anxiety beat the black dog with just positive mind/meditation/REGULAR exercise and keeping a busy mind and body? I expect it would take some time though"

 

All that helps but even with time and patience its effect would probably not return you to a "normal" mental status. Just my opinion.


#22 invalidusername

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Posted 04 October 2023 - 06:40 PM

Looney...

 

I appreciate your position. And to address your first point. We have members come and go and Hat and myself try our best to cover all enquiries. 

 

We are not as popular as other sites, but dare I say, we have far more knowledge that the larger sites with members who simply speak from their own experience rather than helping 1000's with their individual experience.

 

Regarding your depression and anxiety, you REALLY need to look into something other that this sh*t they offer on the NHS. 

 

PLEASE look into alternatives. This is what has helped me. Kratom has got me out of my awful position. Psycobilin has got my other other half on her way to getting the same way. 

 

Listen... the SSRI's were created by ACCIDENT. Just look up the book "Let them eat Prozac". David Healey. He was fired as soon as he proved that SSRI's caused more damage than benefit. But it is true God dammit! 

 

I could give you countless amounts of literature. I want to help you. I am a PhD, not and MD (which in my mind is better!!). I am not just some git on a forum with a chip on his shoulder. I understand this stuff, and I cannot stand for people suffering the way you do. We can get you through this.

 

We are not some sort of cult. We do not have any vested interest in some weird-assed companies selling dodgy stuff.

 

WE GENUINELY WANT TO HELP PEOPLE LIKE YOU.

 

Getting out of your funk is difficult, but I can assure you that Kratom, Psyocibilin of similar WILL help you. I have been there so many times and SEEN OT WORK.

 

Please do not suffer. I don't know you, but I don't want you to be in the same place that Hat and myself have been in for so many years.

 

Talk to us. Tell us what you feel is your way forward.

 

There is a greater power up there, and you are here to do your work. Don't put it to waste. 

 

Your life has as much meaning - if not more - than anyone else. 

 

Grab it. Hold into it. Use it. Spread it. Tell people about it. Make the world a better place. This is what Hat and myself are here for - regardless of two dudes on a forum who speak to you - but you have our attention and WE WANT TO HELP YOU. 

 

That is the difference. WE WANT TO HELP YOU.

 

Talk to me brother - you are worth it...

 

IUN


#23 looneytune

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Posted 05 October 2023 - 09:58 AM

*Looney...*

 

^ That's priceless  :)   cheers Invalid  :)

 

Yeah I know a wee bit about the pharma companies and their accidents. Witness Viagra. They try to come up with a medicine for heart problems and by accident discover that they can use and make a great fortune with Viagra's side effects. "To hell with the hearts, let's licence this for the d*ck"

 

I will spend the w/end going over the Kratom & Psyocibilin

 

There is a greater power up there, and you are here to do your work. Don't put it to waste. 

 

Your life has as much meaning - if not more - than anyone else. 

 

Grab it. Hold into it. Use it. Spread it. Tell people about it. Make the world a better place. This is what Hat and myself are here for - regardless of two dudes on a forum who speak to you - but you have our attention and WE WANT TO HELP YOU.

 

^ That was very inspiring thank you

 

John


#24 invalidusername

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Posted 05 October 2023 - 04:37 PM

That you so much John - that was lovely to read after a very tough day my end. I hope you are well.

 

But here I am on my (digital) home away from home.

 

You are right, so many drugs find their use as a side effect from what they were researched for. Pregabalin is a fine example. Never meant for anxiety, that was never meant to be. But when they release these drugs as an alternative, they do not undertake the necessary tests. As it turns out, the withdrawal from Pregabalin gives severe suicidal ideation, and many people have lost their lives as a result. This was marketed as an anti-epileptic. 

 

I was put on it for the seizures that Duloxotine caused, and when I started the withdrawal, about three days in, I found myself taking a whole blister pack (140mg) of Diazepam/Valium. Two nights in hospital. Never again.

 

You cannot trust these people, my friend.

 

COVID is a perfect "wake up" example. Pfizer headquarters is a few minutes drive from my flat, and the amount of times I have thought about setting fire to the premises....

 

They didn't even test their COVID drug for immune subjects for infection. They admitted this in EU court in The Netherlands just 2 weeks ago. They marketed their COVID jab as being safe to prevent people infected passing it on. But the truth is they did not test for this!! It is HORRIFIC!!

 

I have not had ONE jab, never will do... and never had COVID. 

 

This is not some undercover process that people would have you believe. We are not people who just want to fight the big pharma. These are FACTS.

 

The truth comes out eventually. You can be sure of that. Just look at the figures of how many people contracted COVID. Way more people who had been "jabbed" caught the damn disease than those that did NOT get jabbed. It messes up the immunity of the individual. This has now be shown in the European Court. I am not start a conspiracy theory. Pfizer have stood in the box and ADMITTED IT.

 

We need to take health into our own hands John.

 

There was once an experiment undertaken by a Swedish University. They asked x amount of doctors (anonymously) if they prescribed drugs to patients that did not need them. 

 

ONE IN THREE doctors said they prescribed some drug (pain killer, antibiotics... whatever) even though the patient didn't need them. When asked, the doctors said they felt under pressure to prescribe something, anything... so that the patient felt as though they were being cared for.

 

Again, this is not some weird-assed conspiracy... this is FACT. 

 

I am a research associate here in the UK, so I knew whereof I speak. Just think about these things for a while.

 

Again, I am more than happy to help with any questions about western meds you may have. Just drop another post or PM...

 

Take care of yourself, John,

 

IUN 


#25 looneytune

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Posted 07 October 2023 - 07:45 AM

Day 7 of 50% step down from 40/20 and if anything on day 7 feeling worse....diarrhoea starting to clear up but the feeling of exhaustion and flatness and bleakness is overwhelming

it feels like I am on my way back to worst of days

 

Still on Diazepam 4mg in a/noon and I don't suppose 3 weeks of constant diarrhoea will have dome my NRG any good, runny nose and EYES!

 

Could this ^ be due to 40/20 step down even after the seventh day?

 

Thanks guys   :(


#26 looneytune

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Posted 07 October 2023 - 08:54 AM

Had a look at Kratom and it looks like "the jury is still out" on this one internet wise. The controversy reminds me very much of an other popular "underground" "herb" that does not have an UK licence but may have an USA one....I forget at the moment TBH. I would look at the other item you mentioned when concentration improves

 

There is sooooo much going on the world just now that worries me and I fear for not only myself but mankind.........Trump first and foremost/Putin/N Korea/Israel and Palestine/Rich and poor divide/& the clear nuclear threats from Putin* & NK

 

Jeez, The Cold War now feels like a time of peace and harmony   :)

 

Oh, edit..... I think it was KAVA I was talkin' about

 

 

*If his nukes are as good as his army we have nothing to worry about


#27 fishinghat

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Posted 07 October 2023 - 11:16 AM

"Could this ^ be due to 40/20 step down even after the seventh day?"

 

I have seen this type of step-down cause symptoms that last for 6 months or more BUT with limited time you have been on the drug I would not expect that in your case.


#28 looneytune

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Posted 07 October 2023 - 11:34 AM

Yes, I get that symptoms that last six months is unlikely for me but could my current jitters be the responsibility of MY reduction 7 days ago of 50% drop 40/20?

 

Ah, SHROOMS is the other alternative you guys were talking about. Very interesting

 

Thanks FH


#29 fishinghat

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Posted 08 October 2023 - 07:06 AM

"...could my current jitters be the responsibility of MY reduction 7 days ago of 50% drop 40/20?"

 

Absolutely!!


#30 looneytune

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Posted 08 October 2023 - 08:12 AM

A little history.......I have Ankylosing Spondylitis for over 50 years not much fun and a LOT of PAIN. I have learned to be wary of doctors

 

IBS and Ank. Spon. are bedfellows but the 600mg Ibuprofen prescribed by doctors 3 times a day done for for stomach and bowels. Nowadays there is a companion stomach tablet for those on Ibuprofen

 

MY rheumy decided on Tramadol 50mg 2x 3 times a day and I lasted less than a month. Giving up Duloxetine compared to stopping Tramadol is like giving up sugar in your tea. Believe me on this

 

co codamol 30/500 are GREAT, TOO great. The relaxing buzz from the codeine is all i ever need. Helps the pain AND the anxiety but like lots of things in life the price to pay is too heavy so I stay clear of them too and have been addicted a number of times.....I am treating my A.S pain with nothing and have been for years.

 

End of sob story

 

Thanks guys  :)





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