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Tapering After 8 Weeks


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#31 looneytune

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Posted 08 October 2023 - 11:02 AM

Guys, what are your thoughts about the folk that successfully receive treatment that manages their condition with reasonable 30/60mg doses of Cymbalta,are y'all OK with that?

 

Or is it a stay well clear attitude all round regardless of apparent success stories?

 

Just curious, not trying to be flippant 


#32 fishinghat

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Posted 08 October 2023 - 02:01 PM

My wife has had 5 spinal surgeries, I fully understand where you are coming from. She endures.


#33 invalidusername

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Posted 08 October 2023 - 06:48 PM

I totally understand your concern relating to your understanding of Kratom. It is thought when there these things are not easy to understanding,  These things are very difficultly to think about how they will improve your situational position. 

 

I am not doing very well at the moment, so you will have to exhausted my response, but please understand that I can help you in that which I can help you in any way I can,,

 

IUN


#34 looneytune

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Posted 09 October 2023 - 10:34 AM

IUN......Keep well man....this place needs you

 

Thinkin' of you

 

John

 

PS Drop us a wee PM when you are on your feet and if there is anything we can do.........


#35 looneytune

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Posted 10 October 2023 - 11:42 AM

been on Cymbalta/Duloxetine for..

 

30mg for 4 weeks

60mg for 2 weeks

40mg for 2 weeks

20mg for 10 days with another 14 days to go at 20mg until next Doc appoint (26th) and decision on way forward

 

so, will be approx 11 weeks on Cymbalta when next see doc (26th)

 

Thing is, even at my new low dose of 20mg the diarrhoea persists,although not so often throughout a day, but still daily

I hardly ever got up for a pee through the night and now it is up to 3 times a night coupled with weak flow

Headaches and Tinnitus in left ear

Lethargy and complete disinterest in everything I once held dear ( i KNOW this could be my depression but the Cymbalta has done nothing to address situation) and jitters are making a comeback. At one point, on 40/60 dose, jitters were diminishing but the skitters (Scottish word for teh shitz) :)  were on the increase

Everything is now an effort....walking is like walking through the swimming pool. I've HAD ENOUGH and be forthright guys, do you blame me,should I carry on with dose and hope for a breakthrough?

 

My chart is above ^^^ At one point I went from 60/40 and "NOTICED it".....if my doctor agrees, and I think she will, what's the best way to go from 20 to 10 to 5 to ZERO?

 

As for tapering,when the Doc and I last spoke she spoke of a reduction technique of days on the med followed by days off and so on (alternate) but I read online that that is not the best way to stop

 

So, can you vets suggest how I should go the final lap of 20mg to ZERO after 11 weeks of this shit? Would half 20mg cap (10mg) daily for two weeks be OK then Half a 10mg capsule (5mg) for two weeks then STOP!?

 

and could I expect a hard time with the 5mg/stop last leg?

 

The past two years has seen me try 6x meds and I no longer know whether I am coming or going.......I don't know any more if it's withdrawals or the difficult few weeks of start up

add to that the Diazapam buffers and I am well and truly over medicated IMO

 

A QUICK approx calculation, if you guys give my plan the go ahead, would be.......11 weeks on Meds and 9 coming off

 

Hope you are perking up IUN  :)


#36 looneytune

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Posted 10 October 2023 - 01:17 PM

IUN

 

Started to read your tapering off last dose post and you mention shallow breathing......is shallow breathing a thing with this med, taper or no taper?

 

Your post was a HORROR story BTW and still reading it.....damn


#37 looneytune

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Posted 11 October 2023 - 07:21 AM

It's been 11 days since my drop down from 40 to 20mg

 

Woke up last night 3am as though I had just stepped out of a swimming pool,drenched.Electric skin on legs and light headache. God knows how you poor guys cope that have been on this shit for YEARS. WE NEED this lie exposed some how

 

After my fever lifted, (still in bed around 5am) something some of you may think a little soft or soppy, my Mother, who died many years ago, visited me in my dreams, and put her arms around me. I was overwhelmed and so happy and it has stayed with me throughout the day. I'm going for it,I believe it :hug:

 

I never have nice dreams. I moved to this new current location just over two years ago and my last dream a couple of nights ago was of my old house burning down. Upon 7 or 8 o'clock am I have started to have that feeling of the FOG lifting and part of my old self re-emerging.... could be the worst of the drop down symptoms saying goodbye.IDK

 

One thing I have learned this past two years is don't trust any happy breakthroughs, it may just be a blip in reverse (if that makes any sense)

 

John


#38 fishinghat

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Posted 11 October 2023 - 07:28 AM

"So, can you vets suggest how I should go the final lap of 20mg to ZERO after 11 weeks of this shit? Would half 20mg cap (10mg) daily for two weeks be OK then Half a 10mg capsule (5mg) for two weeks then STOP!?

 

and could I expect a hard time with the 5mg/stop last leg?"

 

I know you have certainly had a rough ride with your drops but overall it seems to be a lot better than many members, even the short-timers. Your plan sounds good to me. And yes, unluckily that last drop will be the toughest but you have shown that you are strong and you will make it through.

 

"One thing I have learned this past two years is don't trust any happy breakthroughs, it may just be a blip in reverse (if that makes any sense)"

 

Ahhh, the mighty rollercoaster. I remember it well. Really sucks. It gives you hope and then jerks the rug out from under your feet.


#39 looneytune

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Posted 11 October 2023 - 07:42 AM

Thanks Mr Hat....you and IUN are class acts

 

John


#40 looneytune

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Posted 11 October 2023 - 08:33 AM

UK Guys.......is there a 10mg Cap?


#41 fishinghat

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Posted 11 October 2023 - 09:21 AM

Not that i can find. The lowest dose i have ever been able to find was 20 mg. A compounding pharmacy (usually expensive) is able to make some up for you though. Most members usually opened up the capsule, removed half the beads and then closed the capsule back up and took it.


#42 looneytune

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Posted 11 October 2023 - 11:54 AM

I think there may be a TAB of sorts in UK (IDK) but failing that.........can I quarter (bead count) the 20mg cap (when doing the 5mg dose) and just swallow the beads without the gelatine cap for container?

 

 

 

 

https://www.1mg.com/... Organic Search


#43 fishinghat

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Posted 11 October 2023 - 12:36 PM

You can do that but be aware that you must be careful to not chew or damage the beads as they are enteric coated. If Cymbalta dissolves in the stomach rather than the intestines it cause severe stomach issues.


#44 looneytune

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Posted 12 October 2023 - 08:35 AM

Oh man, I am at a complete loss as to what to do and it's creating some tension at home

 

At one point in my Cymbalta journey I had a week of 30mg c/w some low Diazepam that was GREAT....when the dose was increased to 60 that's when the problems kicked in and I went down to 40 and 11 days ago, down to 20mg

 

TBH I have been self medicating with the strength of Diazepam (5mg at once instead of 3mg) when I feel things getting worse

 

My plan was to taper to nothing in the coming weeks but wife thinks the week on 30mg was worth trying to achieve again....I'm confused because ,is my current LOW feelings and the fear of the worst of symptoms returning because of my low 20mg (that I have been on for 11 days) dose and Cymbalta leaving my system (withdrawal  symptoms)  or because Cybalta has been helping and now the madness returns because I am reducing? God I can't even explain properly....the wife wants me to continue at 20mg for a couple more days then up the dose to 30mg (as per docs instructions)


#45 fishinghat

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Posted 12 October 2023 - 01:08 PM

"...the wife wants me to continue at 20mg and monitor situation until we see doc in two weeks."

 

​I think your wife is very smart. Just my opinion for whatever it is worth but i doubt if it is from symptoms returning. Possible but not likely. I know how much this wears on a person but the most successful weans take 2 to 3 years. You, unluckily, will need to have patience. Sorry.


#46 looneytune

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Posted 13 October 2023 - 08:57 AM

"but the most successful weans take 2 to 3 years."

 

What! after 10 weeks use?

 

A question for anyone in general...

 

A hypothetical question,....if 30mg daily sorts whatever problem you have and manages your anxiety and depression is it worth sticking with Duloxetine/Cymbalta for a year or so knowing that at some time you may like to come off them and consider the problems you are likely to have with withdrawals?

 

It's just for me, that all the horror stories and withdrawals is enough to discourage me and for a while I was noticing a positive effect on them........so confused. Are there POSITIVE stories on here?


#47 fishinghat

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Posted 13 October 2023 - 11:17 AM

""but the most successful weans take 2 to 3 years."

 

What! after 10 weeks use?"

 

No but I have seen it take several months after being on it for 3 or 4 months. I just mentioned that to suggest how slow things can progress.

 

I have to admit that there are many people who have benefitted from the use of Cymbalta BUT the risks may not ne worth the benefit. It helped my anxiety for example but caused a failure in my testosterone production (common). The ebook lists many effects that Cymbalta has on our bodies.(See list below)

 

Hypothyroidism
Tinnitus
Restless Leg Syndrome
Pregnancy
Heart
High blood pressure
Cymbalta's Damages/Effects
Bone metabolism
Organ development
Cardiovascular growth factor
Damaged red blood cells
Cymbalta downregulates the activity of the bladder control nerves
Cymbalta regulates DNA product manufacturing in the frontal lobe and hippocampus
Change the structure of Glutamate receptors in the prefrontal cortex
Cymbalta and Alcohol
Hyperglycemia
Mania/Sexual effects while taking Cymbalta.
Liver
Skin
Seizures and Sodium
Hyponatremia
Cymbalta's effect on neurotransmitters in the brain
Receptor Alterations
Cymbalta Fat soluble tissue absorption
PSSD (Post ssri Sexual Dysfunction)
Dystonia
Dyskenisia
Akathisia
Edema
Cymbalta Toxicity 
Hand Sanitizers
Cymbalta‐ Induced Parkinson's
Cymbalta Histamine Reactions

#48 looneytune

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Posted 14 October 2023 - 12:59 PM

Ebook! Wot's an EBook?

 

Would the above list of Cymbalta effects on our bodies not be applicable to most of the snri / ssri meds or is Cymbalta got a worse track record than the others?

 

Thanks

 

John


#49 invalidusername

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Posted 14 October 2023 - 07:16 PM

Hi John...
 
Apologies for the silence. Been a bad few days this end, but coming out the end of it.
 
Well done for reading even part of my tapering story! The shallow breathing is all part of the heightened anxiety which occurs coming off the drug. Perfectly normal, as scary as it was.
 
Sorry to hear about the fever, but what a beautiful thing that your Mother came to visit you in your dark hour. You say don't trust the happy breakthroughs, but all the same, live in the present and enjoy what comes along.
 
As Hat said "the mighty rollercoaster". Happens to us all.
 
There are 10mg Duloxetine (Dulotin), which I have just realised you have found, but they are not available in the UK as far as I am aware, and I certainly wouldn't trust anything bought "off-prescription" on the net. 
 
But bead counting isn't as bad as it sounds, don't worry too much about it - we can help you through it.
 
The 11 days is just about when the neuro effects will start to kick in. Physical effects start around 3 days, but the changes in the brain do not start until around 7-10 days, so this is about right what you are feeling.
 
There are members who have found Cymbalta/Duloxetine useful, but had the issues when they were coming off them. As I said a while back, I had the same effects as you insomuch that I was "painting the walls of the bathroom" about 4-5 times a day. I couldn't tell if it was doing anything as I was so crazy of the above - who wouldn't be anxious about something like that?!
 
Wow, I just googled "cymbalta withdrawal ebook" and out lovely little guide was right at the top of the results!! Awesome!
 
Anyway - you can download if from here;
 
 
This will give you a wealth of information... Keep us updated!
 
IUN

#50 fishinghat

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Posted 15 October 2023 - 07:56 AM

Just my opinion but I would say that the side effects are worse for snris than ssris. Worse in intensity and types of side effects. 


#51 looneytune

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Posted 15 October 2023 - 12:11 PM

Thanks guys

 

@invalidusername

 

IUN.....thanks man and hope you are well.....hope you don't mind some personnel questions...it's cool if you choose not to answer, I dig

 

Could you send me your story link I was reading, I lost it......also, poor Gail, she sounded so lovely

 

Are you still having  issues with your (M) health...are you on some meds?

 

For me personally I am going round in circles and I don't think the constant dose changes are helping

 

New plan between doc/wife and myself........i have been on 20mg for two weeks now and going to try 30mgs for one more month to see if shitz come back ( the shitz originally appeared at 40mg)

 

My original spell on 30mg for 4 weeks (shitz free) was rather good as it cleared up a lot of those loop negative thoughts and anxiety....so will try that dose again and STICK with it if it works and taper off if not suitable.....considering 120mg is the max I don't think 30mg is going to cause too much problems (hopefully) but i do detect tinnitus and have done for wee while

 

Hope you have got over/managed your wee spell of whatever ails you

 

John


#52 looneytune

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Posted 16 October 2023 - 01:46 PM

Just Thinkin' out loud......

 

Let's say my new dose of 30mg per day worked out and after 6 months or a year I decided to come off...if they enabled me to get well again, and I managed a year or so, my goal would be to come off them as I am not really a big fan of meds at all

 

In reducing and stopping the meds would a drop of 5mg per two weeks be much too fast? (over 3 months taper for max stay of one year on capsules)

 

Thanks guys...hope you are all well and keeping the black dog at arms length

 

John


#53 fishinghat

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Posted 17 October 2023 - 07:59 AM

Hello LT

 

Here is what I have noticed over the last 10 years of being on this site.

 

After one year on this med most people take around 2 to 3 years to come off successfully. Even if they are on only 30 mg. Of course, most are on a higher dose but it is important to realize that they can usually drop from their normal dose to 30 mg with minimum withdrawal over a 2 or 3 month period. Dropping from 30 mg to zero is a very different story. As the dose decreases the withdrawal worsens significantly. many times the person takes several months to drop the last 1 mg. Don't underestimate the severity of this withdrawal.

 

Now having said that it is important to realize that about 20% of the people (my opinion from what I have seen) have no withdrawal at all. My sister-in-law stopped 90 mg of Cymbalta twice, cold-turkey, and never had a symptom. There are some studies out there that indicate that around 40% of patients have a severe withdrawal.

 

i wish I coulkd be more positive about things but this is what i have seen over the years.


#54 looneytune

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Posted 17 October 2023 - 10:15 AM

Mr Hat

 

but it is important to realize that they can usually drop from their normal dose to 30 mg with minimum withdrawal over a 2 or 3 month period. Dropping from 30 mg to zero is a very different story.

 

 

What you sayin there FH........that someone (most folk) could drop from 30mg a day to ALMOST ZERO in 2/3 months and the last of the meds ( the last 1 or 2,mg) would be the hardest?

 

PS Could I expect to be a wee bit jittery 4 days after going from 20mg to 30mg?


#55 fishinghat

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Posted 17 October 2023 - 12:05 PM

That is what I am saying alright.

 

Yes, the jitteriness is common with an updose like that. Sometimes a little dizzy as well but normally that would pass in a week or so.


#56 looneytune

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Posted 21 October 2023 - 01:32 PM

7 days ago doc put me up from 20mg to 30mg....at same time (7 days ago) I came down from 7mg single dose Diazepam to 3mg single dose....up and down reactions,the past few days, at same time, is a head mangler. A LOT of bed time this week and fed up with myself

 

I reckon doc is just gonna give me another 2 to 4 max weeks at this 30mg dose and watch for results......I've got tinnitus (no fun when you are a musician) gastro/stomach problems and some left over bowel problems ( occasional shitz) from last upward dose increase....oh, and the odd headache. It's about 11 weeks usage just now but it's difficult to gauge the success or reaction of the meds due to roller-coaster ride of up/down/up/downs dose and resulting jitters dose changing cause....lost some more weight too and not eating with this shit

 

However in an other 4 week period all shall be revealed since I will have been on a stable dose and no diazepams to muddy the waters

 

If I/or good Doctor decide it's for the best I come off these things......(if she tried me for another 4 weeks at 30mg that would be a total of 15 weeks on one level or another of Cymbalta)

 

I know I have asked before guys but just want some reassurance......if the decision is to stop, can I safely drop/swap out 30mg capsule to 20mg and sit on that for two weeks to level out?

 

Then drop 20mg to 10mg and level out for a further two weeks? and after that my head and heart tells me to see you two guys again on how to deal with the last 10mg

 

I have seen nothing yet with these tabs that makes me wanna shout from the roof tops about how good they are but the wife says there is a difference in me thus far....

 

PS IUN how are you keeping man?


#57 fishinghat

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Posted 21 October 2023 - 05:04 PM

"I know I have asked before guys but just want some reassurance......if the decision is to stop, can I safely drop/swap out 30mg capsule to 20mg and sit on that for two weeks to level out?"

 

You will level out but probably more like 1 to 3 months.

 

"...at same time (7 days ago) I came down from 7mg single dose Diazepam to 3mg single dose"

 

The issue will be the drop in Diazepam. This type of drop usually takes around a year. Benzos are one of the most addictive meds on the market. You can come off them but to do it the easy was takes 1 - 3 years.

 

Just a side note, but Cymbalta effects the serotonin and norepinephrine receptors in the brain but Diazepam effects the gaba receptors. Totally different situation. What this means to you is that even if you settle down from a change in Cymbalta dosage you will still have to deal with the Diazepam withdrawal.


#58 invalidusername

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Posted 21 October 2023 - 06:13 PM

Hi John...
 
Many thanks for your concern, it is very kind to read your replies.
 
I don't questions at all - I will have to find my two main posts I put up and post as they were such a long time ago - but I will dig them out...
 
Gail... well... she was nothing short of an angel on earth. Her, along with Hat, LDN, AJ and others, I have met some of the most amazing people here on this forum. What Gail went through was some of the most intense bravery I have ever known. Being in Canada, she had the option of assisted suicide, but she wouldn't do it. No matter how bad she felt and how much pain she was in. She was here for more than 2 years after the doctors said she would be, and I am sure everyone that knew Gail would agree that we are so happy for that. She was writing on the forum until her last few weeks. Again, a gift from God.
 
I am on Citalopram 30mg, and cannot come off the damn stuff. The last time I dropped 5mg, I was bad enough to take an overdose. So, when the NHS finally allow me to have the liquid citalopram, I will give it a go. 
 
I still have good days and bad days. My life is stressful purely as my other half is severely mentally ill - OCD, agoraphobia, PTSD... So I have to get all the bills paid, do the shopping and look after her at the same time - plus my elderly parents - my Dad of whom is in the advanced stages of Parkinson's. So it doesn't take much to tip the scales the wrong way!!
 
Constant dose changes will certainly not be helping, but just as Hat said, I would be concerned about the Diazepam - that is one evil withdrawal. It took me best part of a year to go from 10mg to 2,5mg. That all went to pieces when I was going through my alcohol withdrawal as my anxiety was unbearable, so I went back up to 10mg, so I am going to have to do the whole thing again. 
 
I wouldn't worry about the Diazepam muddying the waters too much, again as Hat said, they are two totally different classes of drug. 
 
Regarding the drop from the Duloxetine from 30 to 20, I would consider bead counting and observe carefully, given what occurred previously.
 
Great to have a fellow musician here as well!! The tinnitus can easily be a side effect as we have serotonin receptors in our ears, so the odds are on that it will improve....
 
Good to catch up and thanks for sharing, John.
 
IUN

#59 looneytune

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Posted 22 October 2023 - 11:31 AM

IUN

 

Dear God man,have you got it bad.If I am having a bad time I can retreat to bed and here are you with all these responsibilities.

 

Done it all too....the elderly parents ( my wife's) 8 years & 24/7 and know how draining that can be,and the commitment and thankless task most of the time...

 

Done the alcohol thing , stopped booze and fags and joints on same day 14 years ago after Jeff Beck gig in Glasgow and been teetotal since. I would never go back and love being sober

 

Thinkin' of you tonight Bro and thanks for all your help especially in the light of how much you have on your own plate

 

Hope you and family are good tonight

 

PS The booze I stopped Eazy Peazy, it was the bloody fags of all things that made my life a nightmare with withdrawals.....8 months of it...God, my poor wife

 

John

 

@invalidusername


#60 looneytune

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Posted 23 October 2023 - 12:54 PM

IUN or Mr Hat

 

a coupla questions for you for some reassurance....

 

10 days ago Doc changed my DULOXETINE 20mg to 30mg.  Is 10 days still early days (too soon) to see the FULL benefit of 10mg increase dose change?

 

Reading through my PC Nutters diary I can see I have gubbed a lot of Diazepam on and off this year and a no break solid past 8 weeks, which is ongoing and tapering

 

I went from around 7mg to 3mg 9 days ago......just dropped 7 to 3....could that partly be to blame for the current shitty, flat and jittery mood and could I expect the same for a wee while yet?

 

You know with the Diazepam withdraws it's probably making it that wee bit harder to appreciate any benefit right now from the Duloxetine

 

It's beginning to dawn on me that I should stop this cursed Dizzypam for good......they are undoubtable great for that short period when you need the extra help but it's not so easy to always find the discipline to get off them

 

Hope you guys are well

 

John





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