Wean system my Dr. perscribed me..Please help!!
Posted 14 September 2009 - 05:22 PM
Maureen, today is day day 20 and i just eat dinner i feel like i'm gunna throw up my food!! Also, I have pain in my legs espeacilly my left leg in the back of my caves!! I kinda feel a bump and it's not my muscel part..and when i touch it there's a sharp pain all the way to he top of my legs like a shock wave or something... it's kinda scaring me...I dunno if the cymbalta has anything to do with this pain im feelin in my legs but they do hurt bad I kinda dont want to walk on them anymore...I hope ur not getting pain in ur legs.. : ( I feel awefull today!!! do u think it could be a blood clot?
Tomorrow I call my Dr. he wanted me to call him tomorrow to see how Im doing so I well let you know what happends after we talk ok.
Posted 14 September 2009 - 06:50 PM
I've seen lots of comments on here from people who've had serious muscle aches and pains.
I haven't been too bad, but when I was doing the alternating days of 30mg, I had two problems, one was pain in a muscle I damaged in a motobike accident decades ago which hasn't hurt for years and years, and the other was what seemed like a painful lump near my pubic bone. (Not a good look walking around wanting to clutch your groin!!)
Both stopped once I went to the 15mg per day, so I suspect chances are it's the Cymbalta in and out of your system, but of course it could just be coincidence and you should get it checked out with your doctor.
When i was taking 30mg every second day I also had lots of overnight cramps (which I'm a bit prone to, but this was every night) plus I'd often wake and one arm would be 'asleep'. Again the cramps have almost disappeared, and haven't had the arm thing since changing to a daily dose, so hard to imagine there was no connection.
Do let me know how you feel tomorrow.
take care, Maureen.
Posted 15 September 2009 - 07:10 PM
Marueen it's day 22 and my legs are soooo in pain.. and the Nasea is extra bad today. I think it's cause I took the Cymb. 2days ago and I reinterduced it to my system like you have said before......... I do it one more time then I'm cold turkey that's when I'm going to need all the help in the WORLD...Scared.
Posted 15 September 2009 - 07:17 PM
Remember how you felt much better after several days with no cymbalta? I think you're going to feel better once you've started recovering from the last dose.
You sure you want to take it?????????!!!!!!!!!!!!
I have two more days of 12mg; I've already divided a 60mg into six doses for the next drop down to 10mg.
Still having truly weird vivid dreams, but otherwise o.k. apart from the itchyness. Driving me crazy! (correction: crazier)
Posted 16 September 2009 - 11:45 AM
A magpie is a native Australian bird, which can be quite friendly with humans and become fairly trusting. They tend to stay in family groups and be a bit territorial, so generally the only ones near our house are part of a family of five. It's hilarious watching the three juveniles, who are now quite independent, turn into begging babies if their mother turns up.
This is what it looks like:
http://www.photoseek... ... Magpie.jpg
We have checked out what to feed them (mince or dried puppy food) and the instant we open the back door in the morning they descend for their feed. They're one of the few breeds of birds which walk rather than hop so can look a bit comical on the ground. We're a bit ikey with the food, as we don't want them becoming dependent on us.
Perhaps I should also mention it's the name of a certain Australian Rules Football team which otherwise goes by the name of Collingwood (junior's and my husband's team) which are going to get absolutely thrashed by my team, the Geelong Cats on in the semi final on Saturday night.
Hope you're feeling well,
Posted 16 September 2009 - 11:47 AM
Our little cats, on the other hand, Pepper in particular (aka The Devil) could solve this itching in a flash of claws.
Just like she could quickly finish off our magpies - we have to make sure they're inside when we feed the maggies or the cats would have them for dinner.
Posted 16 September 2009 - 12:15 PM
Posted 16 September 2009 - 05:08 PM
Day 23 feeling Nasea...and BLAH!! the heat here is sooo bad!! and usually is gets a little cooler here in California around September..anyway, I crave carbs and sweets constently! and I just want to go cold turkey..sometimes..and wonder if I would just be better off like that going cold turkey than how Iam doing now...........?
It's day 23 and I'm suppose to TAKE today and I really don't want to!!! and don't know what to do...
Posted 16 September 2009 - 05:21 PM
Yep, you gotta laugh.
We're into the last two weeks of our Australian Rules football season (and Australian Rules is mainly played in Victoria, where Melbourne is); my team finished 2nd of 16, and Junior's 4th, and they play each other this weekend for a spot in the grand final the following weekend. I'm more of a fair weather fan really, so don't get too excited about it; PLUS my husband's team is the same as Junior's, so one of has to win this weekend!
Sorry to hear about your nausea. Are you actually feeling worse than the day before you took the last dose? You sounded as though you were feeling quite good at that stage.
My opinion? don't take it, and if you don't feel any better in a week perhaps use your last handful of capsules to taper down like I'm doing, so your body has a smallish dose every day.
When you've got ten minutes, read this:
http://en.wikipedia.... ... n_syndrome
I'ts 'only' wiki, but makes sense to me!
take care, Maureen.
Posted 16 September 2009 - 05:30 PM
Cece nite nite : ))
Posted 16 September 2009 - 05:44 PM
GIVEN that the idea of dropping down the way you are doesn't seem to be recommended by anyone except some doctors.
I'm having an easy time of it in comparison - managing to actually diet a bit and exercise to get off these few extra kilos before summer hits.
(Similar climate here to California - the bad Australian bushfires in Feb were in the hills just ouside Melbourne. We had 46 degrees that day - that's about 115F!.)
sleep well, Maureen.
Posted 16 September 2009 - 09:13 PM
Pray for me..
see you manana (meaning tomorrow) yeah, I'm mexican : )
Posted 17 September 2009 - 07:16 PM
Today i went to go see my Dr./pych. and he told me that he wants me to stop taking the Cymbalta he dosn't want me to do the weaning off list anymore starting today when i saw him this moring... and he's going to call me next monday!!! to see how i'm doing... can you believe this??? I hope i do good!!! and iam still ALIVE............ : ( Also, I asked him why dosn't he want to taper me off!! and he says it takes alot longer time..he says months..to do the tapering and he says Cymbalta will always be in you even when tapering off...so why would you want to do that?? and i said well it's less more side effects!! cause i have been getting nasea and all the above!! and that's when he decided for me to go cold turkey....can u believe this??? he says the seratonin is still in ur brain and your trying to get rid of it...
Posted 18 September 2009 - 01:02 AM
My understanding is that the SSRI's down regulate the serotonin receptors on the sending neurons so that what is fired into the synapse doesn't get taken back up if it doesn't make it across to the receiving neuron. What the body has to do when we come off an SSRI is up regulate those receptors. Some people seem to do it easily, some don't. I imagine it is a lot tougher for those of us who have been on these drugs for a long period of time.
Of course, Cymbalta is an SNRI meaning that it affects TWO neurotransmitters - serotonin AND norepinephrine.
Anyway, Cecile, once you stop taking the Cymbalta, hopefully you won't have to deal with the nausea any more.
Maureen.. GO PIES!!!!!!!!! :D:D:D:D
Posted 18 September 2009 - 06:19 PM
I'm feeling acutally pretty good just a little nasea, my teeth hurt off and on and i still have that chocking feeling, hard to swallow feeling when i eat something..but that's all..the nasea could also be becuase i'm still on my menestral..but besides that yeah..I'm doing fine...I feel a little changed too...like i'm getting back into the real world..from my zombieness from being on the Cymb...I dunno do you feel like that too Maureen?? coming off the meds..?? a little different???
Maureen, did the Magpies lose?? I hope so...haha...you said there game was today right??
Posted 18 September 2009 - 08:34 PM
It's 4p.m. on Saturday here, and the game isn't until 7p.m. tonight.
Although I'm Geelong (The Cats) my husband as well as Junior are Collingwood (the Magpies), so someone in this household will be happy tonight.
We have exciting news with our real magpies, though; the mother would appear to have hatched a new baby, because she's changed from gobbling down the food we leave out (chicken mince today) to taking a great beak full and flying off with it. The dad does the same (both parents raise the kid). They have the most beautiful song.
Because I went straight from Lexapro to Cymbalta, and then not on Cymbalta for long, it's hard to say. I actually got a lot of benefit from Lexapro - even the first day I noticed the 'calming' effect of the drug. I noticed the difference when I went to Cymbalta - it had much less of that effect on me (although I didn't need it by then anyway).
So, no,, I hadn't noticed any zombiness from Cymbalta. But I'm still damned itchy, which is a bit weird, because I was very itchy ON Cymbalta, then it almost disappeared when I tapered/lowered the dose, and has now re-appeared with a vengeance. Very strange. It's quite sunny here today too, about 20C (which I think is about 70F) and I've been gardening, so my slightly sweaty back is annoying me. Grrr.
Junior: I'll keep my Cymbalta caps handy in case I need to up my dose tonight. After WB very nearly trounced St Kilda last night I'm a bit nervous. You will note, though that the three highest scorers on the Age sports page correctly picked St Kilda, two of them said they'd win narrowly; the same three have picked Geelong to win, two by a big margin. So there.
Posted 19 September 2009 - 12:50 PM
When I went to my GP late last year having finally decided to succumb to the temptations of HRT, I thought most of the problems I was having were just due to menopause.
There was some crap happening in my life, and I was handling it badly due to the menopause symptoms.
I've never known anything like the menopausal lack of sleep. I've read of younger people saying oh no they'll never take HRT, if they can't sleep they'll just read a book. Ho Ho. Nothing like that sort of can't sleep. I could go for 5 cycles of about 20 minutes sleep, 20 minutes awake per night, although somewhere in there I'd usually get 2 - 3 straight hours. Do yoga, count sheep? Sure, that's when your heart rate has actually dropped to normal from the hot flush which actually woke you and drenched you in sweat, leaving you to fall back asleep only to wake 10 mins later freezing because your body has overreacted to the hot flush and now you're cold and wet.
After two years of this I started taking HRT, which apparently generally works very quickly. A friend who had even worse symptoms felt dramatically better within 24 hours, but after a full week I had negligible improvement apart from a slight reduction in the flushes and a bit better sleep. When I got back to the GP I was in tears because I was crushed that nothing much had changed - I'd blamed everything on menopause.
She took one look at me and said "i think you're depressed, and I think you have been for a while, just blaming menopause for ALL of your symptoms.' So i started on Lexapro and actually felt better even after the first dose (I could feel some of the anxiety fading). I was actually a bit underweight at this stage (just over 50kg at 5.3") and enjoyed the fact that I was enjoying food again. And again. And again. It took a few months for me to realize it was actually Lexapro making me feel hungry, even when I'd just eaten. That bit of your body from your mouth to before your stomach felt like I hadn't eaten all day, combined with that slightly light-headed way you can feel when you need food. Because I often eat meals at irregular times, several times I actually ate lunch twice!! Sometimes I would only realize this when I'd go looking for the half-avocado, thinking this is a bit odd, there was a whole one here this morning, and I had a half in my sandwich ... then I'd realize I'd had a (big, sourdough bread type) salad sandwich at 11.00 and another at 2.30.
I'm the sort of person who can easily skip breakfast and hardly notice, but on Lexapro my eyes would pop open and I'd think Oh goody, I can get up and eat!!
Before too long of course that just over 50kg became just over 60kg. The HRT I was on changed at one stage to Trisequens, which is working much better for me. I also had vivid dreams every night - I could handle that, but I had several nightmares, including one during the bushfires time where I was trapped by flames. I've never been one to walk or talk in my sleep, but apparently I was acting this one out, gasping for breath, moaning and groping around. My husband thought I was having a heart attack and said it took several minutes for him to wake me. It really gave him a fright.
Given I was so stable, my GP thought it might be worth trying a different anti-d. She was wary of me trying to just give them up given how bad I'd been late last year.
(I wasn't suicidal; my 17 yo daughter's life is never going to be destroyed by me. The effect on other adults wouldn't stop me, but the effect on her would. Three years ago a girl in her class -not a close friend, but one she'd been friendly with for years - had the horror of going home one day with her 10 year old brother and finding her mother had hung herself from the tree in the backyard - in the full knowledge that it would be her children who found her. How you get to a state where you can do that I've no idea - obviously I've never been that depressed. When i told the consultant physician I saw for blood pressure, he said you'd have to be very, very angry at something or someone, as well as depressed to do that. A few weeks afterwards my daughter, who seemed to be coping o.k. turned to me, threw her arms around me sobbing promise me you will never, ever do anything like that.)
So on to 30mg of Cymbalta; Inoticed immediately that I'd lost the calm demeanour, and felt a bit hyper for a few days, but otherwise o.k. Suffered a litany of annoying side effects, all listed on the info which came with the drug, and many of them were things which were more aggravating pre existing minor problems than anything else.
You may not know this if you were not on it long, but 30mg is not available as a repeat prescription in Aust, and when I went back after a month (with my GP off with swine flu) the doctor I saw was adamant that 30mg was just a step-up, step-down dose, and that 60mg to 150mg was the normal on-going dose of cymbalta.
After taking the 60mg for a few days, the side effects geared up a notch, and I had to try taking it every 1 1/2 to 2 days to try to minimize them, which seemed o.k. That went on for a few weeks until my own GP came back and happily gave me a 30mg script, agreeing that we'd just have to manage with separate monthly scripts. By this time I figured If I'd felt so well on what was NOT a theraputic dose, I might try giving them up, by taking the 30mg every 1 1/2, then every 2 days.
That's when the problems started. I thought for a start the emotional stuff was because underneath I was still depressed, but when the brain zaps started I found this site and from my reading here decided to continue with the withdrawal, but do it differently.
My GP has been fantastic; feels bad at what I;m having/had to go through, and is furious not only that she doesn't have the info that we all now know, but that at a phychiatric conference recently, brought up my experience and was told my one of Melbourne top experts (doctor, not drug company) that 'there's no evidence to support it'. She was livid that there was no opportunity to follow this up. That was the end of the conversation. At least there is one GP out there who won't be prescribing Cymbalta for depression.
The issue is complex though, because as she said C has been found to be superb for Diabetic Nerve pain; this is why I'm not prepared to call C a noxious drug which should be taken off the market. What I'm furious about is that the withdrawal information is not available to doctors, given Eli Lilly MUST know how common these problems are.
Given the withdrawal difficulties it would seem it's not a good drug for depression, because even if it works well with few side effects for some, coming off it (which you'd hope would be an objective for many) is going to be too problematic.
So that's my story ...
Posted 19 September 2009 - 03:26 PM
Ok here's mine. I come from a family where mental illness is rife. For example, Mum has bipolar 2 (hypomania rather than mania), her brother has bipolar 1, my younger sister has bipolar 1, and I suffer from Major Depressive Disorder (recurrent episodes) and Generalised Anxiety Disorder. I think the GAD is rife too but it has never been formally diagnosed in any of us. I found out about it through my study!! To be fair on my Drs, it wasn't a category in the DSM when I first started seeking help for it back in @1979. It was in the 4th edition of the DSM which came out in 1994.
Anyhow, I 'discovered' Aropax in 1997 when I was put on it for a bout of anxious-depression. I'd just endured what I call my 'winter of hell' (long story) so it wasn't surprising that I was now suffering depression. Stayed on it for about 6 months, came off it to have another attempt at IVF and went back on it when the attempt didn't work out. (I sufered Ovarian Hyperstimulation and wasn't allowed to have the fresh embryos transferred). Saw a psychiatrist who was also a psychologist as well as the IVF psychologist and got diff things from both. They both helped and I gradually put myself back together. I decided, however, to stay on the Aropax as it made a HUGE difference with my anxiety problems. I couldn't believe the difference. My stress levels were the same as others and I didn't have to go through the depersonalisation, feelings of unreality, feelings like my nerves had snapped and the resulting loss of confidence, the withdrawal into my self, and a whole host of physiological symptoms anymore. It was like a wonder drug for me. To say nothing of the fact that I also didn't have to fear depression. My "old friend" that was always like to come back and haunt me. It was just brilliant.
I went back to school to study psychology. Best think I could have done. It gave me my life back. I had direction and purpose again. I started studying via Open Learning in 1999, won my place at Monash Uni in 2001 and attained my degree at the end of 2005. Along the way I had my right ovary removed. They thought I had a cyst but it turned out to be adhesions (I'm riddled with them due to a ruptured appendix when I was 10; the cause of my infertility) so they removed it. That was ..umm.. early 2003. Late in 2004 I had the other ovary removed, this time it WAS a cyst. A huge one. 10cm! They were going to do a hysterectomy as well but even with a laparatomy, they couldn't see because of all the adhesions so they decided to leave it there. I went on HRT -premia - but can't say I suffered any problems. My mother didn't have too many probs so I must be like her. A couple of years later there was a dispute with the company that makes them and no chemist could get them in! I felt fine so I didn't bother. Except, then I had two very heavy periods/ breakthrough bleeding. I have fibroids so I flood. Ugghhh. My GP urged me to go back ON to HRT for bone density reasons. So I did. And I continued studying. Got in to '4th yr'. Same level as Honours but not as highly regarded. I had planned to do a Masters and go on... but that has since been revised...
I had found during the years of study that I could vary my dose of Aropax. There was a pattern. I'd start the year on one tablet, by mid 1st semester I'd increase it to 1 1/2, and by the mid of 2nd semester, up it to 2. Over the summer I could always drop it down. That worked fine for several years. Until last year. My 4th yr thesis was originally due in in October 2007 but i got a 3 month extension so it was due in Jan 2008. Of course that meant I couldn't drop the dose over the Summer as I always did. Didn't think anything of it. But I had 1st semester of 2008 off, for the first time in 10 yrs. I should have been able to drop the dose then but I found I couldn't. My body had always given me signs that the higher dose was too much - either too happy or too sedated - but it just didn't happen this time. And I felt really flat, quite low at times. Still, got on with the job of preparing our house to be put on the market. I had one last subject to do for my Post Grad Dip in Psych and it was only offered in 2nd semester. I also painted and we put the house on the market in mid October. Still on the 2 tabs and not bothering about it... except..I started having trouble sleeping. Not as bad as recently, but I just wasn't getting enough sleep.
We sold our house in Jan and moved out in March. The sleep probs had got worse and worse and my GP and I decided I had to come off the Aropax and try Lexapro. I discovered 'poop out'. I was sad that I had to come off Aropax as it had worked so well for so long. Anyhow, Lexapro immediately calmed me down and I was able to get through the move. I had to up the dose after only a couple of weeks though. Things calmed down, I slowly got organised but I found out that I couldn't really relax. I had no idea it was the drug so I just kept on doing what I was doing. It got worse. I became more and more restless, and toward the end, agitated, electrically charged, and the insomnia returned. Plus, the urge to slit my wrists was getting stronger. I'm just glad I was aware that these drugs can do that because it would have been easy to give in to it.
So, I asked for a referral to a psychiatrist. This is their field, right? He took all my history and everything. And put me on Cymbalta. Straight on to 60mg. The rest you know.
I still don't know exactly what the causes of my current insomnia are. It could be a combination of what Lexapro did to me. It probably drained a lot of minerals and vitamins, with all that restlessness and agitation. But I was starting to sleep again after coming off it (I was off it for a week) before going on to Cymbalta. It was only a few days before Cymbalta disrupted my sleep again. I kept waking every hour or so. I remember going to bed one night, waking an hour later, and realising I'd been dreaming. I thought WTF? REM sleep is NOT SUPPOSED TO HAPPEN EARLY IN THE NIGHT!
The good news is that I actually had a reasonable sleep last night. Without taking a sleeping tablet or anything. I've been trying not to but when it gets to 4am and you've only had one hour of sleep .... So, i'm hopeful that all these pills the naturopath has given me are beginning to work. I think they are because I'm feeling more relaxed during the day too. I'm back on the Aropax as well but I'm not sure it's doing much. I think it is because after a few days on it I felt calmer but not in the way the natural remedies have made me feel. It's hard to explain. I think it helped to settle whatever my neurotransmitters were doing to try to gain their equilibrium.
Fingers crossed I can get it together. I start my new job tomorrow!
And that is my story :)
Posted 20 September 2009 - 04:59 PM
Posted 20 September 2009 - 08:34 PM
I agree, too, about not taking any more. My gut feeling is that PART of the reason you feel so bad is because you're going through cycles of withdrawal and re-introduction.
Give it a go, keep a diary, and let the trash fester in the bin. Don't do an unfair share of the housework, especially at the moment or the resentment is going to make you boil over if how I felt a few weeks ago is any indication. Any minor transgression by any member of the household and it was just about 'call the police!'.
Sometimes passive resistance works better than anger and frustration.
I didn't get married to do more housework; I got married to share life's path with someone else. Housework around here is not always equal - sometimes is very unequal - but it's usually fair.
No one's making you do more housework; if he sits on the couch, join him. Sometimes it's only by not picking up the pieces (or towels, or dirty clothes) that you make it obvious what needs to be done.
(And this isn't an anti - men rant - my husband uses the same tack with me.)
Posted 20 September 2009 - 09:12 PM
wow, your story made me stop and think.
There's no on-going depression in my family which is lucky. The three short times in my life I've been depressed there have been external triggers, which isn't to say that I think depression is having a crap time of it (life).
I've had some pretty dismal times (several years ago with my adrenal investigations was one), but I wasn't waking up each day with a feeling of dread thinking oh god not another day to be got through. To my uneducated mind, when you feel really low, you can feel better with a sunny day, exercise, hearing of someone worse off, getting some good news. But with depression, sometimes 'good' things just seem to make things worse by adding guilt to the mixture. It's hard to explain to anyone who hasn't experienced it what it feels like to stand in front of your wardrobe and feel completely incapable of working out what to put on - it seems to me that by putting an almost complete block on thinking the rotten bits get blocked, but so does almost everything.
Over my worst times I almost always have my head in a book - take my head somewhere else if you like. When I was doing the alternate days 30mg I had some days where even though i was so busy (self-employed) I'd stop and read for an hour or so because it seemed to have a calming effect - i.e. if my brain was having to follow the words on the page it was distracted enough to be able to help a bit.
(Incidentally, one of the books I read was The Last Kabbalist of Lisbon, set in about 1600, with quite a bit of medical stuff happening - interesting!)
It's a pity that your family members are probably all seeing different specialists; if the genetic problem was elsewhere in your body, the connections would be hugely important to the doctors. You're right about your comment several weeks ago about mental health services. On my husband's side, his sister has had depression since her teenage years, and has been on and off (mostly on) Prozac for years and years. Of her two children, the daughter is fine, but the son developed all sorts of problems in his teenage years (which he puts down to being triggered/aggravated by smoking a lot of dope - which seems to be a pretty well accepted theory now). It took years and years and years for his treatment to be effective, DESPITE the fact that his dad is a medical specialist, their neighbours are a GP and psychiatrist, all three of whom were involved in trying to 'work the system' in a way which would get the boy the help he needed!. (Hobart) The classic tales of him being released without parents being advised, despite the fact that they were the ones having to pick up the pieces. He now has some sort of guardian, who controls his health care. If he doesn't turn up for his fortnightly injection now the CAT team come and collect him!
I feel for anyone who's had to go down the IVF path. Being an impatient person, the two weeks it took waiting to find out if I was pregnant the first month we tried (I was) was hard enough! I would certainly have had to learn to pull my head in if I'd had problems in that area. My adrenal based blood pressure problems at the time precluded having a second.
How independent is your son?? Will he be able to live independently??
AND ... how did the first day of your new job go??
Posted 21 September 2009 - 02:39 AM
Brain zaps!!! and ears buzzin!!! and the tears!!! my body aches and my arms a switching?? am i haveing a storke??????? OMG!!! it's bothering me sooo bad!!!....... this is depressing.... todays my TAKE day....but just going cold turkey like DR. said..........I feel like crying again while i'm writting this!! sooooo emotional....I look soo ugly with my red swollen eyes I didn't want to go anywere or do anything today...i cryed at the resturant today when me and my husband went to go get something to eat!!! how embarressing!! how do explian to people that are watching you that ur detoxing from a drug...they just have NO idea what i'm going through...and I just sit there thinking of how LUCKY there are not to be me!!! i just hate myself for putting myself through this!!! i just want to be normal like them!! like normal people!! life is not fair!!!!!!!! well for me it's not...
I'm gunna try to get some sleep.........good nite Maureen...ur the best...
Posted 21 September 2009 - 03:35 AM
Hope you get some restful sleep. Did you see a post today about a bloke who's coming off Cymbalta and his wife is coming off another anti-d and they both found Benadryl useful - calming etc.??
I think if you'd asked my family about me a few weeks ago they would have suggested I'd make good shark food.
How many 30mg capsules do you have left?
Maureen. ((((((((((((BIG HUG))))))))))))
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