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Need Help For My 15 Year Old Daughter


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#31 fishinghat

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Posted 25 January 2019 - 05:11 PM

Ahhh, I did find it in the second one and indeed it says enteric coated capsules (not pellets).

I would however trust the FDA drug insert over other sources.

#32 invalidusername

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Posted 25 January 2019 - 05:18 PM

Could well be wrong given that it seems odd for both to be coated unless, the capsule is preventing the stomach being subjected to contents of the Cymbalta. Possibly a mechanism of the delayed release whereby the capsule is broken down and the pellets are released further... that much I don't know, but of course, now I want to find out!!

 

However - very compelled to say, as the last thing I want to do is argue with a superior mind (!), but first document, section 1 reads "enteric-coated capsule under the name Cymbalta®", doc 2 in the legend at the footer "Duloxetine Enteric Coated capsules (30 mg - 60 mg) and corresponds to Duloxetine D.R., i.e. Delayed Release, capsules" and doc 3 I was just going by the title. If I read something wrong, my own research could be in a lot of trouble!!!

 

[EDIT] Just seen your above. It would indeed seem logical for the FDA to be correct, but it would be interesting to see what occurs in the case of the OP... but one thing is for sure, she cannot stop cold turkey!!


#33 fishinghat

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Posted 25 January 2019 - 05:34 PM

Amitriptyline

I found one member that used it for her bipolar. I did find two members that used it for Cymbalta withdrawal with "some" success. I also found two members that had to stop using it due to massive weight gains in a short period of time. Most of the TCAs are famous for weight gains.

#34 ncmom

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Posted 26 January 2019 - 10:16 AM

Thanks for all the comments and info about the capsules - I had seen the "hardshell gelatin" reference as well and wondered what that actually meant.  But, I cannot fathom making any change where there might be even the slightest chance that she goes backwards.  We've been using the gel capsules for months.  She must be getting some of it because if we speed up the taper, she suffers.  The Prozac was starting to cause problems at 10 mg - we had to titrate up 1 mg at a time over 10 weeks but once we got there, she just was not well and we figured it had to be the Prozac and doc agreed and said to stop taking.  Side effects were like serotonin syndrome - seems unlikely given the super low dose, but enough to make her doc backtrack - it just wasn't working.  In my heart and mind, I know that stopping at this point would be awful, and I've explained to both my husband and daughter that stopping now won't necessarily reduce the overall time for recovery.  One of the best articles was the one in the medical section that describes what's going on in the brain during withdrawal - it's healing, not just suffering.  As such, the slow taper is not just wasted time, the brain is healing the whole time.  That makes me feel better about continuing with the slow taper.  It's crazy that doctors are still so clueless - no one really believes that it's this hard to get off the drug.  Everyone has heard of some trouble getting off the drug, but nothing like what we're describing.     


#35 fishinghat

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Posted 26 January 2019 - 10:38 AM

Don't feel bad NCM. Prozac didn't work for me either during my withdrawal. For others it did well. You just never know until you try.

#36 invalidusername

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Posted 26 January 2019 - 02:59 PM

"As such, the slow taper is not just wasted time, the brain is healing the whole time.  That makes me feel better about continuing with the slow taper."

 

Absolutely - you got it. Don't put her through what the doctors are putting me through at the moment.


#37 ncmom

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Posted 04 March 2019 - 04:15 PM

Well, it's been 4 weeks, she quit.  8 mg to 0.  It was her decision.  She wanted off this poison and nothing I could say made her think it was worth continuing.  I hope she does not end up in protracted withdrawal.  Some of the worse symptoms have lessened - no more crying all day.  Nightmares much less.  But, nausea, anxiety, irritability(!), fatigue, and general lack of motivation are almost overwhelming.  I just pray that her young brain can recover more quickly.  Her psych just doesn't think this is still withdrawal - it's so hard - of course, we don't know for sure.  All we know is that she didn't have these problems before.  Even my closest friends don't believe us - they think it must be depression or an anxiety disorder.  The psych doc wants to try a new med - she doesn't know who she's dealing with on that - we will never NEVER take another anti-depressant.  Every once in a while, there is a window and she looks and feels pretty well, then the window shuts and she's back in the hole.  Anyway, that's where we are - will update in a few weeks.  


#38 invalidusername

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Posted 04 March 2019 - 04:43 PM

I can going to beat Hat to it in saying...

 

Her psych is an idiot. Of course this is withdrawal. These doctors get me (and Hat) so wound up. On one hand you have a guy sat in an office pushing pills out like a dispensing machine, and on the other you have people on a dedicated forum who have seen 1000's of people coming off the same drug, taking detailed notes, reading journals and papers, watching the news. These people just do not want to be upstaged. Simple as that.

 

I hope for her sake and yours that the sh*t doesn't hit the fan, but please don't be surprised if it does by the weekend. If so, none of the "told you so", just back onto the 8mg asap. If she starts to feel worse in a few days, there is worse to come. We say this for your best interests and don't want to see anyone get hurt.


#39 fishinghat

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Posted 04 March 2019 - 05:46 PM

Oh IUN took over my soap box. lol

If she is having a few good hours here and there that is a very good sign. Would you or her consider using a supplement that may ease thins some or are you just trying to ride it out?

#40 invalidusername

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Posted 04 March 2019 - 06:05 PM

So she has nausea, anxiety, irritability(!), fatigue, and general lack of motivation (anhedonia for reference if required).

 

Yes, alternative is to supplement her ass off.

 

• Ginger tea (best made with root) for nausea - works great.

• Suntheanine for anxiety - start with 100mg - up dose to max 400mg if no improvement after a few days.

• Irritability should curb with the anxiety tailing off.

• A good omega 3 and vit C will help fatigue.

• Anhedonia will be caused by a combination of the above and will pass soon.


#41 ncmom

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Posted 07 March 2019 - 02:26 PM

She's been taking Omega 3 for months, tried Suntheanine 100 mg/day, but she was so tired, so she only takes 50 mg/day - probably not enough to do anything,  Vitamin B and D.  


#42 invalidusername

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Posted 07 March 2019 - 04:42 PM

Suntheanine does have the capacity to make people tired, which is why it is often combined with caffeine - but as was discussed only a few days ago, this combination can be counterproductive for people with anxiety. Those who combine with caffeine are often using theanine for concentration and so forth.

 

You need to make sure the Omega 3 supplements are giving her between 2000-3000 combined DHA/EPA. I know that sounds like a lot, and she might end up taking 3 or 4 capsules, but this is a tried and tested method. Anything less just doesn't cut it when it comes to withdrawal.

 

...and before Hat steps in and tells you, I will preempt his reply... Vitamin B and D (and others) should only be administered when a deficiency has been shown. Vitamin B is known to be a stimulant above required levels and thus can readily cause anxiety. 


#43 ncmom

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Posted 08 March 2019 - 12:02 PM

Thanks - she has had bloodwork completed two times in the last year and both showed deficiencies in Vitamin B (slight) and D.  And Hat is the one that gave me the DHA/EPA guidelines back in October, so we're good on that as well.  Her phych wants us to try adding Deplin (l-methylfolate) - I have not looked through the med section yet about that.  Also suggested Taurine 500 mg/2 times daily and NAC 300 mg/2 times daily.  I hate the idea of pumping all that stuff in her.   


#44 fishinghat

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Posted 08 March 2019 - 01:10 PM

https://www.cymbalta...bie/#entry39490

This link contains a lot of info on Deplin.

The NAC will not hurt anything but if you are taking Vitamin C (another antioxidant) it may not help.

Taurine is trickier as it is effected so much by what other supplements you are taking. It is a mild antidepressant with little to moderate effect on anxiety depending on the research you read. It is safe up to 3 grams a day.

Examine.com

#45 ncmom

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Posted 08 March 2019 - 01:28 PM

Thanks - read that whole thread.  Not sure if I'm settled whether to try it or not, but at least it doesn't sound harmful.  


#46 KathyInFL

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Posted 08 March 2019 - 01:48 PM

I didn't read the link yet but just wanted to say I was on Deplin about 6 or 7 years ago, it was awesome! I felt like I got my memory back. The company that made it stopped the production of it and I had to stop taking it. 


#47 fishinghat

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Posted 08 March 2019 - 02:07 PM

They still sell it on Amazon Kathy.

Wow, that would be a great name for you...Amazon Kathy!! lol

#48 KathyInFL

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Posted 08 March 2019 - 02:21 PM

They still sell it on Amazon Kathy.

Wow, that would be a great name for you...Amazon Kathy!! lol

 

Hey, I'm trying to curtail my amazon shopping! 

 

Maybe it was a precursor to Deplin? I believe it was a prescription? And it was made by the company Pamlabs before they got bought by Nestle. I'll try to think of what it was.


#49 invalidusername

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Posted 08 March 2019 - 03:02 PM

Taurine is trickier as it is effected so much by what other supplements you are taking. It is a mild antidepressant with little to moderate effect on anxiety depending on the research you read. It is safe up to 3 grams a day.
 

 

Quite. I am clued up on the tryptophan and tyrosene, but still reading about the taurine. But as with other supplements, there can be a competing for the crossing of the blood brain barrier, and an increase in one amino can swing others out of balance. I'd go steady with this in the first instance. Finding the right levels of these things is not easy, and more damage can be done rather than undone.

 

Assuming your advisor is well-informed, then it should be a step in the right direction, but would still heed caution.


#50 fishinghat

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Posted 08 March 2019 - 04:12 PM

"But as with other supplements, there can be a competing for the crossing of the blood brain barrier, and an increase in one amino can swing others out of balance. I'd go steady with this in the first instance. Finding the right levels of these things is not easy, and more damage can be done rather than undone."

Right on.

#51 ncmom

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Posted 19 March 2019 - 10:05 AM

We decided not to add the Deplin and just stay the course for a few more weeks.  Overall, I think there is some light.  There are still days of uncontrollable anxiety - even the smallest decisions are excruciating.  And any disappointment results in terrible rage.  These were always problems for my daughter - inability to make decisions and handling disappointment, but they are magnified 1000% with the withdrawal.  At the same time, she is starting to look better and talk about the future more.  Little steps.     


#52 fishinghat

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Posted 19 March 2019 - 10:45 AM

Keep hanging on mom and daughter. It does get better albeit slowly.


#53 invalidusername

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Posted 19 March 2019 - 12:16 PM

Glad to hear there is a bit of light to be seen. And yes - the withdrawal - and start-up effects always make things worse as you say. I have health anxiety and badly dizzy and nauseous. Really doesn't help!!


#54 gail

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    5 months on cymbalta, scary side effects, to get help and to return the favor if I can.

Posted 19 March 2019 - 01:12 PM

NcMom,

Thank you for the update. We can see that there's improvement, which is what we're looking for!

Rage is a common sign of withdrawal. Magnified if it's allready in your daughter. You've come a long way, and you've been a great mom, bravo!

#55 ncmom

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Posted 01 April 2019 - 10:16 AM

Anxiety and headache!  We are 7+ weeks out from CT off 8mg.  We've noticed that when my daughter has her period, her withdrawal symptoms are all worse for that week - symptoms that were not previously associated with her period.  Just thought I would throw that out for your general consumption.  The anxiety is crippling - literally.  I want her to go to therapy for some CBT - found a young professional, BUT my daughter won't agree and every time I bring it up, she refuses to even talk about it.  I can't even get her to tell me why she is so adamant about not going.  Anyway, I'm going to force her to go, which is something I rarely do, but there is no telling how long these withdrawal symptoms will last and the anxiety will keep her from enrolling back in school this fall - we can't afford to wait until July to see if the withdrawal symptoms will go away.  I'm sure developing some skills to better deal with anxiety would be beneficial to anyone, but I wonder whether anything could possibly help with this anxiety - I mean, is this "withdrawal anxiety" different from any other anxiety?  Just writing that sounds silly, but honestly we don't have any experience trying to deal with an anxiety disorder.   


#56 fishinghat

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Posted 01 April 2019 - 10:32 AM

Well, I feel for both of you. This is the hardest part. In a couple months you should begin to notice on and off improvements. In the meantime the CBT is a great idea but will have limited effect on a withdrawal as severe as Cymbalta. Are you interested in some non-addictive prescription meds to try or maybe try supplements other than those you have already tried?

#57 invalidusername

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Posted 01 April 2019 - 03:23 PM

Agree with Hat here. The cymbalta withdrawal anxiety is down-right awful. It is not her thoughts that are unsettling the chemicals in the brain, the brain is doing that on its own - so the anxiety that is caused from the withdrawal only adds to this anxiety which is why it is so awful. Supplements or other meds may be called for - but don't let her near Lyrica/Pregabalin if she has a history of depression - I speak for many, and from personal experience.

 

Whilst I am all for CBT, do be wary that with the withdrawal anxiety, her thoughts can be in the right place, but she is working on a baseline of existing anxiety that she cannot control. So lets say she had a fear of open spaces and armed with her CBT knowledge of facing and getting through she went ahead and went to such a place. No matter how hard she tries, the chemical imbalance in her head will be causing anxiety. In such a scenario she could then be falsely convinced that the CBT doesn't work.

 

Not wanting to play devil's advocate to your decision, but this is important stuff and I only want the best for you and your daughter.


#58 ncmom

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Posted 17 June 2019 - 11:58 AM

Hi Everyone - just checking in.  Daughter is into her 5th month off C.  I can happily report that things are much better, not 100% of course, but much better.  Anxiety much less.  Irritability way down. Very few nightmares.  A few weeks ago she cried and said "I finally feel happy."  Of course, there are still bad moments of crying, self-doubt, hopelessness, but usually we just wait those out and she's better within a few hours.  She got her driver's licence, has completed her on-line courses, put in a job application - lots of things to be positive about.  It always felt good to come to this site and be heard.  The most I can say is THANK YOU for your support - it helped me immensely and in turn, helped my daughter.   


#59 gail

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Posted 17 June 2019 - 12:07 PM

I FINALLY FEEL HAPPY, what a delight to hear. Nothing's perfect, but she made it. How happy you must be.

Thank you for updating, we appreciate this enormously.

#60 fishinghat

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Posted 17 June 2019 - 12:36 PM

Absolutely great to hear. You are such a terrific mom to do what you had to do to help your daughter through a very tough situation. I tip my hate to you. Just because things are better don't be a stranger. We would always like to hear how you and her are doing.

God bless.



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