66 replies to this topic

[twig50]

i have been on .75mg for about a month now and want to start my water taper at .5mg of xanax starting tonight would that be ok. I did a genesight test about 2 years ago an valium was in the red column meaning sighnificant gene drug interaction so thats why i want to water taper. i thought that by going to .5mg it was easier to cut the pill into 4 sections and water taper from there. tell me what you think of this move. thanks 

[fishinghat]

That is cutting your dose by 33%!! To big a jump. According to studies only 38% of the people weaning off of a benzo can go back up in dose during weaning and get any benefit. So once you go down you are stuck there until the withdrawal wears off. I would not advise this.

[twig50]

thanks for replying fishinghat, so then i should stay at .75mg untill i am done with my taper. I was going to do a 2ml drop which would if my math is correct is 150 days. so i should stay at .75mg for the whole 150 days or do something different 

[fishinghat]

"so i should stay at .75mg for the whole 150 days..." Your make up will stay at 0.75 mg for your makeups.

So 0.75 mg make up minus 2 ml equals 0.745 mg

Day 2 - 0.75 mg makeup minus 4 ml equals 0.74 mg.

Yes it will take 150 days. BUT what I like to start real real slow and if no issues after a couple weeks then I increase the drop rate a little. I would rather start low and have no issues and slowly build up than to start high an d get all messed up with withdrawal.

[twig50]

i am getting alittle confused, are you telling men to stay at .74 ( that would be the second day drop of 4ml) for a couple weeks and if there are no withdrawal to continue the drop process to 6 then 8 then 10ml  ect.  thanks

[fishinghat]

No, I am saying do your daily drops of 2, 4, 6, … and after a couple of weeks we may increase the drop rate to 3 mls a day if everything is going well.

 

Hang in there, you will get it.

 

The schedule would look like thi

 

day 1 - drop 2 ml

day 2 - drop 4 ml

day 3 - drop 6 ml

day 4 - drop 8 ml

day 5 - drop 10 ml

day 6 - drop 12 ml

day 7 - drop 14 ml

day 8 - drop 16 ml

day 9 - drop 18 ml

day 10 - drop 20 ml

day 11 - drop 22 ml

day 12 - drop 24 ml

day 13 - drop 26 ml

day 14 - drop 28 ml

If at this time all is going well we will start dropping b y 3 ml a day. So...

 

day 15 - 31 ml

day 16 - 34 ml

day 17 - 37 ml.....

[twig50]

i follow you know thanks for all the help

[fishinghat]

Your very welcome.

[twig50]

 i just want to update on my weaning off xanax, i am at 129ml right now so i will get to 300 sometime in december,so far so good on any withdraws. i am still on 30mg of duloxetime, 60mg vyvanse and 150mg of seraquel i wanted to start the duloxetine next and i needed somebody to make a taper schedule up for me if they could and when i could start the process. i have the brand solco and i took apart one capsule and it had 143 beads in it. another facebook group said i should open up and count 3 capsules, add the total and divide by 3 and that would give me a average and then multiply by the amount i wanted to reduce 10% 5% etc. Is this a good taper method. how long should i wait to start the taper after i am done with taper of the xanax

[fishinghat]

Sounds like you are off to a great start Twig. As far as the drop on the Cymbalta....First of all I would wait until 2 months after finishing the benzo. I would then drop at the rate of 1 bead a day until down to 30 mg and then one bead every 2 days until down to 10 mg and then 1 bead every 3 to 5 days depending on how you are doing. This is just a rough outline and can be adjusted as you go depending on how you feel.

[twig50]

i would like to get your opion on vyvanse it is in a powder form how would i taper this medication. I almost stopped it cold turkey this week but I dont know what the withdraw symtoms would be like so i did not do so. It has a major reaction with duloxetene i dont want to come down with serotonin syndrome. Any advice would be apprecate it  thanks

[fishinghat]

Vyvanse (lisdexamfetamine, a form of amphetamine) is a Schedule II substance in the US, which means that it has a high abuse potential, and its continued use can lead to severe psychological and physical dependence.

 

In this case, withdrawal symptoms may include:
Fatigue.
Hypersomnia (at first)
Irritability.
Anxiety.
Headaches.
Lack of motivation.
Dysphoric mood depression.
Increased appetite.
Cravings.
shakiness
sweating
trouble sleeping

Withdrawal symptoms usually appear within the first 24 hours following the last use of Vyvanse and can last several weeks.

The first week is usually characterized as the initial “crash,” during which many people spend quite a bit of time sleeping.

It is also important to note that during the most severe phase of withdrawal, suicidal ideations are possible, and family/friends should be alert to the mental state of the user during this period.

 

Generally speaking, Vyvanse withdrawal is less severe than other amphetamines, such as Adderall, due to its decreased potency.

 

Tapering lasts between several weeks and several months, depending upon the individual patient and how large of a dose the patient is taking at the start of tapering.

 

Staying hydrated is critical during withdrawal.
https://www.mentalhe...nse-withdrawal/

Reactions reported to FDA when taking Cymbalta and Vyvanse together.
https://www.ehealthm...vanse/cymbalta/

[fishinghat]

Handling withdrawal.

Avoid other stimulants. Refrain from using other stimulants, such as cigarettes or caffeinated drinks. These can interfere with the quality of sleep, making a person feel even more tired.

 

Eat well. Staying hydrated and getting a good range of vitamins and nutrients can have a powerful effect on a person's overall mood.

 

Get a good night's sleep. Make a plan for bedtime and create a good sleeping environment. A person may also wish to place a few drops of aromatherapy oils on their pillow, such as lavender or jasmine.

 

Schedule some downtime. Avoid planning too many activities or stressful situations when a crash is possible. This can help to reduce anxiety or stress.

 

Stress relief. Find some effective stress-relieving or sleep-promoting activities. These may include deep breathing, meditation, or listening to soft music.

 

Avoid depressants. Avoid using drugs that depress the nervous system, such as alcohol. These substances may further disturb a person's sleep and extend the comedown.

 

https://www.medicaln...cles/321489.php


https://mentalhealth...ptoms-timeline/
At the bottom of this site is a discussion that people had about their experience with this withdrawal.

 

After reading a lot of stories about peoples experience with Vyvanse withdrawal I would say that the key is to taper over a 2 month period. Those doing that seemed to have less issues with withdrawal symptoms.

More to follow...

[fishinghat]

Note - The manufacturers of this medication provide no guidance on how to successfully withdraw from their product.

https://www.ncbi.nlm...pubmed/22780921
J Clin Psychiatry. 2012 Jul;73(7):977-83. doi: 10.4088/JCP.11m07430. Epub 2012 Jun 12.
Maintenance of efficacy of lisdexamfetamine dimesylate in adults with attention-deficit/hyperactivity disorder: randomized withdrawal design.
the participants entered a 6-week double-blind randomized withdrawal phase on treatment with lisdexamfetamine dimesylate (same dose) or placebo. During the randomized withdrawal phase, treatment-emergent adverse events were reported in 48.2% and 30.0% of participants in the lisdexamfetamine dimesylate and placebo groups, respectively. Treatment-emergent adverse events with incidence ≥ 5% in the lisdexamfetamine dimesylate and placebo groups were headache (14.3% and 5.0%), insomnia (5.4% and 5.0%), and upper respiratory tract infection (8.9% and 0%).

https://www.ncbi.nlm...les/PMC3773663/
There were no significant amphetamine withdrawal symptoms noted after LDX discontinuation. Amphetamine withdrawal has not been well studied; however, animal studies suggest behavioral manifestations become prominent within the first 2 days after discontinuation and can persist up to 4 weeks (Paulson et al, 1991). No meaningful differences in response between placebo and LDX were observed on key efficacy measures during the double-blind/randomized-withdrawal phase.

 

Note - This was all I could find in the medical research relating to Vyvanse withdrawal. Given the results from these studies I would recommend a 3 month tapering period rather than 2 month just to be safe. with this being a powder filled capsule I would suggest the product be weighted out for dose determination. Weight the amount of powder un 3 capsules and then divide by 3 to deter mine the average amount in each capsule. Divide that amount by 100 to determine the amount to decrease the dosage each day. This will undoubtedly require a very sensitive low mass scale.

[fishinghat]

What is your current dosage of Vyvanse Twig?

[gail]

Just a little note here, Fishinghat, Twig is allready at 30 mg duloxetine.

[fishinghat]

Sorry Twig, I see you are on 60 mg of the Vyvanse. Max dose is 70 mg so you will need to go slow.

[twig50]

thanks for the info on vyvanse i am at 60mg doseage and would like to taper off this amount  i read on another website that you can open the capsules and dissove the powder in water, so my question to you if i can do this that i could take a 60ml of water and dissovle the capsule in it and draw out 10% or 6ml and take the 54ml and drink that. If i could do this how long would i stay at this dose. thanks

[fishinghat]

A good idea. Vyvanse is indeed water soluble. Many have used this method to come off Vyvanse. The method is referred to as water titration.

I do not suggest you make 10% drops though as those are big steps. I would recommend small consistent drops. Say dissolving your dose in 100 ml and dropping 1 ml every day. After 100 days you would be done.

[twig50]

thanks fishing hat  do you mean to go down day one 1ml day 2 2ml day 3 ml ect. ect.

[fishinghat]

You got it. Keep us posted.

[twig50]

thanks fishing hat  do you think it is dangerous to start my taper on vynanse whlle i taper off my xanax, also can i go up on my mil of water so that i will have enough at the end of my taper of vyvanse 

[fishinghat]

Dangerous ...No
But a bad idea. The withdrawal from one is enough to worry about. While you may not have withdrawal symptoms from one the added stress will make the withdrawal from the other worse. I really suggest one at a time with a 2 month break before the next one.

[twig50]

i was on another benzo website and kind of got slamed on the way i was tapering off the xanax by using the 3,6,9 etc mil pull out of the 300ml jar. the person said  thats a 30% drop which is to fast and that by taking out 3,6,9 etc that was a waste of medicine. what do you think i should do, stay at what i have been doing or change my routine thanks

[fishinghat]

Stay with what you are doing. The other person is apparently math challenged as 3 ml drop out of 300 ml is a 1% drop not a 30% drop.

[twig50]

as allways thanks for your help fishinghat, i think what that guy meant is that pulling 3mil out at night was a 1% drop and a 30% drop for the month which he thinks is a kind of fast taper. do you think that 30% is a big drop and should i stay at this dossage pulling 3 mil out at night. thanks for all the information that you supply to me  

[fishinghat]

If you are not having any symptoms then stay at that rate. If you develop withdrawal symptoms then stay at that dose a few days until they are gone and then start dropping a little slower, say 2 ml per day. I understand his/her concern but first of all you have not been on it that long and Xanax is one of the easier ones to come off of.

[twig50]

i am concerned about the the interaction between duloxetine and vyvanse. it says in the drug checker that the combination of taking these two drugs together could cause  seratonum syndrone whick makes me nervous. what do you think i should do.

[fishinghat]

You need to closely monitor your body temp for a fever of 102 or higher. In the mean time we need to keep working on getting you off some of these drugs.

If you want you could start weaning off one of them but you have already started on the Xanax and you don't want to do both at once. No clear answer here but serotonin syndrome can be serious.

[fishinghat]

From the Mayo Clinic

Symptoms

Serotonin syndrome symptoms usually occur within several hours of taking a new drug or increasing the dose of a drug you're already taking.
 
Signs and symptoms include:

Agitation or restlessness
Confusion
Rapid heart rate and high blood pressure
Dilated pupils
Loss of muscle coordination or twitching muscles
Muscle rigidity
Heavy sweating
Diarrhea
Headache
Shivering
Goose bumps

Severe serotonin syndrome can be life-threatening.
Signs and symptoms include:

High fever
Seizures
Irregular heartbeat
Unconsciousness
 

When to see a doctor
If you suspect you might have serotonin syndrome after starting a new drug or increasing the dose of a drug you're already taking, call your doctor right away or go to the emergency room. If you have severe or rapidly worsening symptoms, seek emergency treatment immediately.

https://www.mayoclin...es/syc-20354758