1636 replies to this topic

[invalidusername]

Benzo withdrawal was pure hell as well

 

There are countless here on the forum that would agree with that Lyla!!

[gail]

When it's done slowly, like a year or more, depending on your dosage, it's a pretty easy thing to be done. I know, I have done this twice with zero side effects.

Fishinghat is another that's still weaning. Hey, fishinghat? You there? If so, where are you at with the lorazepam? Less than 1 mg? Love

[fishinghat]

Down to 0.82 mg and no withdrawal effects. Yea.

[invalidusername]

Can anyone say how lorazepam compares to diazepam?

 

Some places suggests that lorazepam takes a little longer for onset, but the effects are longer. That is one of the issues with diazepam - it wears off far too quickly. It is useless in the mornings when I am likely to need it most as it just sedates me for an hour - often making me feel worse when I come to...

[fishinghat]

Most say that lorazepam is much stronger than diazepam. Effects are suppose to last for several hours but I must admit it did nothing at all for me. I was on 6 mg a day which is a huge dose for lorazepam and nothing. They use 10 mg to sedate nervous horses. You should be aware that in the old days lorazepam was used as an anesthetic like Versed is now.

 

Lorazepam is rated 10 times stronger than diazepam and is considered the second hardest benzo to withdraw from behind clonazepam.

[gail]

I agree with that as lorazepam acts quickly. Diazepam is much smoother and takes longer to be felt.

[invalidusername]

Good info - thanks Hat/Gail.

 

This explains why the Doc gives out Diazepam before anything else. Probably best I don't venture down the route of trying to get hold of anything else. The Diazepam has helped in moments of need, for example, waiting in hospital, sitting in a court room etc, but when I wake and have those moments of horrible uneasy and really uncomfortable anxiety where it is thoughts more over circumstances, they don't tend to cut it.

[ForLyla]

The problem with benzos is that they create dependence very quickly. I took them for a very short period of time and only about 1 pill 3 or 4 days a week. The upside to them is that you can do a liquid taper. Benzo withdrawal syndrome was very similar minus the horrid depression I've had with cymbalta wd. 

[invalidusername]

That sort of frequency shouldn't denote much in the way of dependence... but such a question is very much subjective. Generally, a course of benzos, 2-3 times daily for a couple of months should be tolerated with minimal, if any, withdrawal or dependence effects.

 

Much like antidepressants, benzos were only supposed to be used short-term. But of course, this didn't pan out quite as it should... courtesy of the greed of the Big Pharma.

[fishinghat]

Use benzodiazepines for only 4 weeks or less to minimize risk of addiction.

https://www.ncbi.nlm...les/PMC4318457/
Dependency problems with benzodiazepines have been a familiar phenomenon for
about 40 years for this reason, pharmaceutical companies and the German Federal Institute for Drugs and Medical Devices (BfArM) have restricted the standard period of use to 2–4 weeks since the 1980s. According to the current law on prescriptions of medical drugs, hypnotics and tranquillizers can be prescribed for period can be extended if sound reasons exist.

http://www.smw.ch/co...smw-2011-13277/
Within weeks of chronic use, tolerance to the pharmacological effects can develop and withdrawal becomes apparent once the drug is no longer available, which are both conditions indicative of benzodiazepine dependence.
Withdrawal symptoms are observed following discontinuation or abrupt reduction of BDZs dosage, even after a relatively short treatment period (three to four weeks). Such physiological symptoms are the main signs of physical dependence. The most frequent are insomnia, gastric problems, tremors, agitation, fearfulness and muscle spasms. Less frequently observed are irritability, sweating, depersonalisation, hypersensitivity to stimuli, depression, suicidal behaviour, psychosis, seizures and delirium tremens. Over-rapid withdrawal from BDZs also increases the severity of the symptoms. Slow and gradual reduction of dosage customised to the individual accompanied by psychological support are the most effective way of managing withdrawal. Complete withdrawal can require four weeks to several years.

National Health Committee. Guidelines for assessing and treating anxiety disorders. Wellington (New Zealand): National Health Committee; 1998.
Recommend restricting their use to no more than 3–4 weeks

https://www.ncbi.nlm...pubmed/17535048
Recommend restricting their use to no more than 3–4 weeks

https://www.ncbi.nlm...t1-ndt-11-1885/
Review of research listing proper use of benzos.
In general, compounds with higher potency and a shorter half-life are associated with a greater likelihood of developing withdrawal syndromes and dependence.
A significant risk of dependence is recognized in some patients receiving treatment for longer than one month, and health professionals should be aware of this when considering the relative treatment benefits and risks.

https://www.ncbi.nlm...pubmed/16639148
Benzodiazepine dependence could be prevented by adherence to recommendations for short-term prescribing (2-4 weeks only when possible).

Clinical Guideline 22 (amended). Anxiety: management of anxiety (panic disorder, with or without agoraphobia, and generalised anxiety disorder) in adults in primary, secondary and community care" (PDF). National Institute for Health and Clinical Excellence. 2007. pp. 23–25. Retrieved 2009-08-08.
According to National Institute for Health and Clinical Excellence (NICE), benzodiazepines can be used in the immediate management of GAD, if necessary. However, they should not usually be given for longer than 2–4 weeks. The only medications NICE recommends for the longer term management of GAD are antidepressants.

McIntosh A, Cohen A, Turnbull N, et al. (2004). "Clinical guidelines and evidence review for panic disorder and generalised anxiety disorder" (PDF). National Collaborating Centre for Primary Care. Retrieved 2009-06-16.

Barbui C, Cipriani A (2009). "Proposal for the inclusion in the WHO Model List of Essential Medicines of a selective serotonin-reuptake inhibitor for Generalised Anxiety Disorder" (PDF). WHO Collaborating Centre for Research and Training in Mental Health. Retrieved 2009-06-23.

Based on the findings of placebo-controlled studies, they do not recommend use of benzodiazepines beyond two to four weeks, as tolerance and physical dependence develop rapidly, with withdrawal symptoms including rebound anxiety occurring after six weeks or more of use.

https://www.ncbi.nlm...pubmed/25613443
Benzodiazepines are generally highly effective when first given, but they should generally be given only for strict indications and for a limited time. If these drugs still need to be given beyond the short term, timely referral to a specialist is indicated, and possibly also contact with the addiction aid system.

http://www.rcpsych.a...diazepines.aspx
Royal College of Psychiatrists
How long should I take a benzodiazepine for?
Up to 4 weeks - no longer. This should really be just to give other (often psychological) treatments a chance to work.

[invalidusername]

benzo buddies is a great source of information - as Hat already knows...

 

http://www.benzobuddies.org/forum/

[ForLyla]

Ya I've been on Benzo Buddies for years but havent used it as of late. I know this question comes out of left field but the only supplements I'm taking right now are fish oils and spirulina. Are there any known adverse effects by either of those while in WD?

[fishinghat]

Those with irregular heartbeats that take 3000 mg of omega 3 may find that their irregular heartbeat worsens. Other than that nothing I know about other than fish breath. lol

Spirulina, a family of blue green algae. is not one I normally recommend as many brands use ocean varieties which can contain large amounts of pesticides, heavy metals, etc.

Blue-green algae products that are free of contaminants, such as liver-damaging substances called microcystins, toxic metals, and harmful bacteria, are POSSIBLY SAFE for most people.

But blue-green algae products that are contaminated are LIKELY UNSAFE.

Contaminated blue-green algae can cause liver damage, stomach pain, nausea, vomiting, weakness, thirst, rapid heartbeat, shock, and death. Don’t use any blue-green algae product that hasn’t been tested and found free of mycrocystins and other contamination.

[fishinghat]

Evidence has suggested a reduction in the activities of the digestive enzymes CYP2C6, CYP1A2, and CYP2E1.

 

The same evidence has noted an upregulation (increase in activity) for both CYP2B1 and CYP3A1.

 

These characteristics would then effect the amount of medication absorbed by the body if that medication is processed by the same mechanism.

 

https://examine.com/...nt-interactions

[ForLyla]

Thanks guys for your input. Another strange thing that's happening is I'm getting a lot of neck stiffness and upper back pain. Normally I'd just chalk this up to sleeping on my pillow wrong but it's accompanied by a rather sharp pain on one side of my neck. I also have this constant doom feeling like the end is nearing. I obsess about cancer. I feel like this is the end and it makes me sad for my little daughter. I don't want to let her down.

[invalidusername]

Neck and upper back pain can be a whole host of things - stress is usually a big culprit... the sharp pain on one side of the neck is likely to be a trapped nerve. I suggest you try some chiropractic exercises and see if the pain eases. 

 

But a trapped nerve will not signify the end! But that sounds like health anxiety, which is my specialty! This is why living with these post withdrawal symptoms is driving me round the bend. 

[fishinghat]

"I also have this constant doom feeling like the end is nearing. I obsess about cancer. I feel like this is the end and it makes me sad for my little daughter. I don't want to let her down."

Boy does that remind me of my withdrawal. 9months of constant fear, doom and dread. Hang in there Lyla. My sympathy to you.

[ForLyla]

I don't mean to scare people or anything but ive been going through wd for so long that I feel like my body is giving out. Im so tired too. My friend had a constant stiff neck for weeks and it turned out to be lymphoma. I just feel like this is the end.

[invalidusername]

Protracted withdrawal is nothing short of the most intense collection of symptoms. If I let myself think about it too long, I can really work myself up into quite a stupor. Given I've only been here for 9 months rather than your 2 years, but it really scares me to think when I had the last day that I didn't have any symptoms. The problem is that people do not understand just how delicate our brains are. As Hat said the other day, it can take 2 years just for the repairs to carry out once everything has been left alone. 

 

It is natural for you to think that there could be any number of things potentially wrong. A lot of the things you have will share the symptoms of a number of other health issues. I was all but convinced that I had Chronic Fatigue Syndrome over the last week. I was so exhausted all the time... before that I had head for almost non-stop for 3 months - I thought that could be some sort of blockage in the brain. Stomach pains before that. Chronic dizziness before that. Adrenal issues before that to the point I was falling over. 

 

I understand Lyla - really I do. I hate this much like you. You have so much sympathy from me, but whilst I can obviously not guarantee it, I am quite sure there is nothing terminal on the cards for you - even though it feels like it. Patience went out the door a long time ago... I know. Nothing I can say will help more, but all we can do here is offer you support and a place for you to get it all off your chest.

 

My thoughts are with you dear girl.

[fishinghat]

It is horrible Lyla and so many members make trips to the ER because they thing they are going to die and the symptoms they feel scare them to death. For sure there have been a few who have found an issue but most spend thousands on tests that find nothing and yet are given another prescription to treat the symptoms (sleeping aide, pain killer, etc.). If you are really concerned maybe a visit to your psychiatrist is in order. You have been at the\is higher dose a long time. This level of anxiety should have improved by now.

[ForLyla]

Hey guys. Been a little while. How is everyone doing?

Thought I'd do an update. My physical symptoms have amped up the last couple weeks. Feeling bad fatigue and still having that constant stiffness and pain in my upper back and neck. The anxiety comes and goes throughout the day. It's been 5 months now since I updosed and although my waves arent nearly as bad, I'm also not really getting any great windows anymore.

[fishinghat]

It sure does take a long time doesn't it Lyla. Hang in there, those 'good' times will slowly return.

[invalidusername]

You know withdrawal is like that old arcade game where you hit a mole and another one comes up - these are the symptoms. You sort one out, and another comes up in its place... Then if you are anything like this guy, you just get frustrated at the end...

 

[ForLyla]

LOL love it IUN. Cymbalta withdrawal is the worst! Almost every day is a struggle with anxiety where I get intense waves of it throughout the day.

My doctor was thinking of getting an xray of my back but I've had so much radiation that I'm glowing! Do you think its needed or is muscular pain and stiffness common with this? Feels difficult to even hold my head up anymore

[fishinghat]

Muscle soreness and stiffness is common but the bad thing is it is common with many many conditions. I guess best to error on the side of caution.

[invalidusername]

As Hat said... better safe than sorry. When I had similar issues, I went to a chiropractor and first sessions after x-rays showed me that my left was translated almost an inch to the right!! He had me fixed in about 6 months...

 

Glad you like the moles

[ForLyla]

Boy am I feeling it today! Super anxious, fatigue and some heart pounding. No idea what I did except I did use some Otrivin yesterday because my nose has been blocked. Any chance that could set me back or is this just taking it's natural course? Hope you guys are doing ok.

[invalidusername]

Its a long shot, but the main medicinal ingredient in Otrivine works by stimulating adrenal receptors - albeit in the nasal passages, but still a chance that this would excite further responses which would result in adrenaline/cortisol excess symptoms such as anxiety...

 

EDIT

 Yup - I was right. It is indeed a side effect of Xylometazoline as detailed;

 

https://www.ncbi.nlm...les/PMC4402865/

[fishinghat]

Good catch IUN. It says that effectiveness lasts up to 10 hours so should be fading away by now.

[ForLyla]

Ya the problem is that when you sniff, you end up swallowing some. Sucks, another thing to stay away from. Strange that it didn't affect me in benzo wd but it does now. My main issue now isn't so much the physical symptoms anymore but moreso the mental ones. Depression isn't too bad but anxiety can be pretty severe. My night vision has been wonky as of late as well.