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#31 fishinghat

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Posted 11 April 2019 - 07:42 AM

Raven, I have two routine drs appointments today so it will be late afternoon or tomorrow morning before I get to post the links or post more info for you. Sorry

#32 invalidusername

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Posted 11 April 2019 - 08:41 AM

Raven - I really understand. We all need to find the resolve to push past it. I have woken up with horrible derealisation. Two hours so far. Every day something new.

 

Hat - hope the appointment go well - routine or otherwise.


#33 TryinginFL

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Posted 11 April 2019 - 10:07 AM

My dear Raven,

 

Please read my words that are part of my profile and will show up here after I post.

 

Also, remember what Gail had posted on an earlier date...

 

   He will cover you with His feathers and under His wings you will find refuge....from Psalms

 

God Bless


#34 TryinginFL

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Posted 11 April 2019 - 10:11 AM

Wishing the best for you, FH  ;) 


#35 fishinghat

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Posted 11 April 2019 - 12:39 PM

Drs appointment went well. Even got in and out early.
 
Here are the links to the products I would recommend.

https://www.amazon.c...e?ie=UTF8&psc=1

https://www.amazon.c...e?ie=UTF8&psc=1


#36 gail

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Posted 11 April 2019 - 01:15 PM

Raven,

I loved your last paragraph. Just like Scrat, I wanted to be there also.

I see nothing wrong with your kids, aren't most kids like that?

#37 fishinghat

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Posted 11 April 2019 - 01:45 PM

St John's wort

Some studies have supported the efficacy of St John's wort as a treatment for depression in humans, but have not concluded it as a replacement for more studied treatments, and proper medical consultation. A 2015 meta-analysis review concluded that it has superior efficacy to placebo in treating depression, is as effective as standard antidepressant pharmaceuticals for treating depression, and has fewer adverse effects than other antidepressants. The authors concluded that it is difficult to assign a place for St. John's wort in the treatment of depression owing to limitations in the available evidence base, including large variations in efficacy seen in trials performed in German-speaking relative to other countries. In Germany, St. John's wort may be prescribed for mild to moderate depression, especially in children and adolescents. A 2008 Cochrane review of 29 clinical trials concluded that it was superior to placebo in patients with major depression, as effective as standard antidepressants and had fewer side-effects.


In the United States, St John's wort is considered a dietary supplement by the FDA, and is not regulated by the same standards as a prescription drug. According to the United States National Center for Complementary and Integrative Health, "St. John’s wort isn’t consistently effective for depression".
' Supplement strength varies by manufacturer and possibly by batch.[52] A 2016 review noted that use of St. John's wort for mild and moderate depression was better than placebo for improving depression symptoms, and comparable to antidepressant medication.[53] In September 2016, ConsumerLab.com tested ten brands of St John's Wort supplements for levels of hypericin or hyperforin, and the presence of heavy metals, finding considerable variability in composition, with some products not containing any hypericin or hyperforin.


For mild to moderate low mood or depression:
⦁ In most studies, St. John's wort extract was standardized to 0.3% hypericin content and used at doses of 300 mg 3 times daily.
⦁ Some studies have used St. John's wort extract standardized to 0.2% hypericin at doses of 250 mg twice daily.
⦁ St. John's wort extract standardized to 5% hyperforin has been used at doses of 300 mg 3 times daily.

#38 fishinghat

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Posted 11 April 2019 - 02:00 PM

Dextromethorophan (Delsym and DM cough syrups)

Dependence and withdrawal

 

In many documented cases, dextromethorphan has produced psychological dependence in people who used it recreationally. However, it does not produce physical addiction, according to the WHO Committee on Drug Dependence. It is considered less addictive than the other common weak opiate cough suppressant, codeine. Since dextromethorphan also acts as a serotonin reuptake inhibitor, users describe that regular recreational use over a long period of time can cause withdrawal symptoms similar to those of antidepressant discontinuation syndrome. Additionally, disturbances have been reported in sleep, senses, movement, mood, and thinking.

 

Caution should be exercised when taking dextromethorphan when drinking grapefruit juice or eating grapefruits, as compounds in grapefruit affect a number of drugs, including dextromethorphan, through the inhibition of the cytochrome p450 system in the liver, and can lead to excessive accumulation and prolonged effects. Grapefruit and grapefruit juices (especially white grapefruit juice, but also including other citrus fruits such as bergamot and lime, as well as a number of noncitrus fruits) generally are recommended to be avoided while using dextromethorphan and numerous other medications.

 

Dextromethorphan has been found to possess the following actions (<1 μM) using rat tissues:
Uncompetitive antagonist of the ⦁ NMDA receptor via the ⦁ MK-801/⦁ PCP site⦁ [26]
Sigma ⦁ σ1 receptor ⦁ agonist
μ-Opioid receptor ⦁ agonist
SERT and ⦁ NET ⦁ blocker (i.e., ⦁ serotonin–norepinephrine reuptake inhibitor)
Negative allosteric modulator of ⦁ nicotinic acetylcholine receptors
Ligand of the ⦁ serotonin ⦁ 5-HT1B/⦁ 1D, ⦁ histamine ⦁ H1, ⦁ α2-adrenergic, and ⦁ muscarinic acetylcholine receptors

Treatment Resistant Depression with Loss of Antidepressant Response: Rapid-Acting Antidepressant Action of Dextromethorphan, A Possible Treatment Bridging Molecule.
Abstract
Dextromethorphan (DM) may have ketamine-like rapid-acting, treatment-resistant, and conventional antidepressant effects.1,2 This reports our initial experience with DM in unipolar Major Depressive Disorder (MDD). A patient with treatment-resistant MDD (failing adequate trials of citalopram and vortioxetine) with loss of antidepressant response (to fluoxetine and bupropion) twice experienced a rapid-acting antidepressant effect within 48 hours of DM administration and lasting 7 days, sustained up to 20 days with daily administration, then gradually developing labile loss of antidepressant response over the ensuing 7 days. Upon full relapse in DSM-5 MDD while taking 600 mg/day of the strong CYP2D6 inhibitor bupropion XL, a 300 mg oral loading dose of DM was given, followed by 60 mg po bid after an additional dose-finding period, without side effects. DM exhibited a ketamine-like rapid-acting antidepressant effect, thought to be mediated by mTOR activation (related to NMDA PCP site antagonism, sigma-1 and beta adrenergic receptor stimulation) and 5HTT inhibition, resulting in AMPA receptor trafficking, and dendritogenesis, spinogenesis, synaptogenesis, and increased neuronal survival (related to NMDA antagonism and sigma-1 and mTOR signaling). This report appears to be the first report of a rapid-acting effect in unipolar MDD and adds to antidepressant effects observed in the retrospective chart review of 77 patients with Bipolar II Disorder (Kelly and Lieberman 2014). If replicated, there is some reason to think that the administration of other agents with DM, such as lithium or D-cycloserine, might prolong the duration of the rapid-antidepressant effect.


https://www.ncbi.nlm...pubmed/21367535
Dextromethorphan as a potential rapid-acting antidepressant.
Abstract
Dextromethorphan shares pharmacological properties in common with antidepressants and, in particular, ketamine, a drug with demonstrated rapid-acting antidepressant activity. Pharmacodynamic similarities include actions on NMDA, μ opiate, sigma-1, calcium channel, serotonin transporter, and muscarinic sites. Additional unique properties potentially contributory to an antidepressant effect include actions at ß, alpha-2, and serotonin 1b/d receptors. It is therefore, hypothesized that dextromethorphan may have antidepressant efficacy in bipolar, unipolar, major depression, psychotic, and treatment-resistant depressive disorders, and may display rapid-onset of antidepressant response. An antidepressant response may be associated with a positive family history of alcoholism, prediction of ketamine response, increased AMPA-to-NMDA receptor activity ratio, antidepressant properties in animal models of depression, reward system activation, enhanced erythrocyte magnesium concentration, and correlation with frontal μ receptor binding potential. Clinical trials of dextromethorphan in depressive disorders, especially treatment-resistant depression, now seem warranted.
 


#39 Raven72

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Posted 11 April 2019 - 02:45 PM

My dear Raven,

Please read my words that are part of my profile and will show up here after I post.

Also, remember what Gail had posted on an earlier date...

He will cover you with His feathers and under His wings you will find refuge....from Psalms

God Bless


Liz🤗😍

Gail,
Yes I suppose most kids are that way. By I have fallen into the "everyone else's kids are more well behaved than mine" built by social media.

Fishinghat,
Thanks for all your help.

#40 invalidusername

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Posted 11 April 2019 - 03:07 PM

Dangerous trap that social media stuff!!

 

But either way, I have problems just being around other peoples children, so with current mindset AND children you must be a very brave soldier. The wife and I have trouble looking after a handful of indoor plants let alone anything else :)


#41 Raven72

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Posted 12 April 2019 - 04:01 PM

Yes, our Pastor mentions the dangers that Social Media pose quite often. We fall into the trap of seeing what everyone posts as their everyday life. Just because it looks perfect doesn't mean it is perfect.

With all Sinbalta has put me through, being an "average" every day Mom is not easy. The hubby has been more of a help than he gets credit for.

#42 invalidusername

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Posted 12 April 2019 - 04:37 PM

Perfection is a subjective term my dear.

 

What one sees as perfect will not engage the second observer in the same way, thereby presenting dangerous ambiguity. Aesthetic and qualitative response will always remain what it is to the observer, so in my mind it is far better to err on the side of this knowledge when partaking in social media activities.

 

Sorry if this is a bit wordy - I am writing part of my thesis at the moment :)


#43 Raven72

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Posted 12 April 2019 - 06:31 PM

No problems on the wordiness.

Good luck with your Thesis.

#44 invalidusername

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Posted 12 April 2019 - 07:55 PM

Thank you... and at 80,000 words I am going to need it :)


#45 Raven72

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Posted 13 April 2019 - 12:07 PM

Lexapro is ready for me at the Pharmacy. He started me with 10mg once a day. Should I tell it 1st thing in the morning or at night before bed?

#46 invalidusername

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Posted 13 April 2019 - 12:20 PM

Doesn't make much of a difference due to the half life. It all depends if you have a predisposition to when you take it. The most common complaint is that Lexapro can keep you awake, which is why most people take it in the morning. Given the choice, that is what I would opt for.

 

In fewer cases, the opposite effect occurs in that it makes people tired, and therefore the opposite is the way forward. But once in your system, the difference in blood levels during the day whether you take it at night or in the morning are minimal, so there is nothing really to gain in taking it at one time over another.


#47 Raven72

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Posted 13 April 2019 - 12:58 PM

Well, I am so tired during the day. The effects medication has the many seems to be opposite for me (the one). I think however I may start in the morning and see how the first week goes taking in the am.

Thanks to all of you.

#48 gail

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Posted 13 April 2019 - 01:31 PM

Another chapter in your life Raven and I pray a new beginning.

Hang in there, even though the first weeks make it hard to fall asleep. I remember, but I didn't feel bad. Bonne chance dear Raven, much love!

#49 Raven72

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Posted 16 April 2019 - 12:04 AM

Well, I wasn't able to get my Lexapro until Sunday. Drama insued and prevented it until Sunday. I opted to actually start off by taking it at bedtime. So, I took it Sunday evening.

I believe I actually slept better than I have in a long time. I woke up seeming more refreshed and didn't nod off in the car line like I normally do.

Then we got home to wake the hubs for work. After that we spent Monday evening in the ER with his leg pain. We feared a blood clot but the ultrasound showed no signs of a clot. We were sent home shortly after. We were there almost 5 hours or more. Over 2 hours of which were spent in the waiting room. Then sent home once the ultrasound showed no clot and his labs were ok. Like they couldn't get us out of there quick enough.

#50 invalidusername

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Posted 16 April 2019 - 07:16 AM

Sounds just like the hospital over here Raven - except you have less of a wait!

 

Glad that all is well with your husband - keep us posted on how the lexapro goes - hope the sleep continues to improve. FYI - I stopped last Saturday and sleep has got gradually worse since, so insomnia is potentially a withdrawal effect to consider with Lexapro as and when the time comes.


#51 Raven72

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Posted 16 April 2019 - 02:11 PM

Thanks IUN I am hoping the husband will be better. Thanks for the info on the Lexapro as well.

#52 KathyInFL

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Posted 16 April 2019 - 03:17 PM

I hope your husband is doing better, Raven! Good luck on starting the Lexapro. I hope it continues to help you sleep. Let me know, I really wish I could sleep in in the morning these days. 


#53 Raven72

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Posted 16 April 2019 - 09:30 PM

Kathy,

Today is no better for the husband. He couldn't even get out of bed today. 😢

I will let you know on the Lexapro. Hahaha...that rhymes😂

Today was rough but I should know more in a week or 2.

#54 invalidusername

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Posted 17 April 2019 - 07:51 AM

Morning Raven,

 

So sorry to hear what your husband is going through - do they have any idea what might be causing the issue with his leg? Must be peace of mind that test came back through clear though.

 

I would like to give you advice on the Lexapro start up, but when I switched last November, my head had already been through a Cymbalta withdrawal, and part way into a Celexa taper. So it was a recipe for disaster whichever way I looked at it!


#55 Raven72

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Posted 17 April 2019 - 09:57 PM

IUN,

Thanks for the advice. I have been off the Sinbalta for years as of April 1st of this year. Heck of a day to pick the quit a medication much less do it cold turkey.

Lexapro was the first depression medicstion I ever took and that was back in 2002/2003. I never seemed to have problems with this medication. I just suddenly realized one day that I had not take it in almost a month. I guess I figured I didn't need it.

I do however plan to monitor myself carefully.

As for the Husband, we still do not know what is the issue on the leg. We are relieved it is not a blood clot. The newest development is the his leg can no longer support the weight of his body. He needs support to walk.

We had appointment with a physical medicine Doctor today. He thinks it may be Sciatic related. He has ordered an MRI on the back to see if there is any nerve damage. He has also ordered Catheter Epidural for possible relief.

#56 invalidusername

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Posted 18 April 2019 - 06:08 AM

Hi Raven,

 

My heart goes out to you both - there is nothing worse than not knowing a diagnosis. Obviously one thing not to be a blood clot, but that is one box checked off - and clearly he just wants relief from it all. Too much waiting and too much anticipation. Prayers will be with you this end.

 

And yes, monitoring your medication is a must. Taking different doses and/or different times can be very detrimental to your mental health. This is why I make sure I keep track of when I am running low on my meds - nothing worse than getting too close to running out.

 

So you are now day 3 of the Lexapro at 10mg? Unfortunately, reports show that it can be quite a slow acting drug, so you will need to persevere. I often wonder whether I gave it a fair shot at 10 weeks, but as 6 of those weeks I had the shakes, it was just too much. There was no sign of them letting off. With a start-up effect they should at least decrease in severity as time progresses. Too much of the same thing can really start to get to you... again, which is why I feel for your husband. 

 

Bless you both.


#57 Raven72

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Posted 18 April 2019 - 08:22 AM

Hi IUN,

Thanks for the prayers. I will keep you updated.

I plan on staying vigilant with my medication. I will also give updates on this as well.

#58 fishinghat

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Posted 19 April 2019 - 08:36 AM

More on handling Depression

Ashwagandha
http://www.ncbi.nlm....pubmed/11194174
WSG also exhibited an antidepressant effect, comparable with that induced by imipramine in the 'behavioural despair' and 'learned helplessness' tests. The investigations support the use of WS as a mood stabilizer in clinical conditions of anxiety and depression

How to increase endorphin levels
1. Sniff some vanilla or lavender - Vanilla causes an increase in production of endorphins. This is wht it can help so many with anxiety. The endorphins released when inhaling lavender creates a calming effect that may even enhance sleep and relieve depression.

2. Increased exposure to sunlight.
https://www.ncbi.nlm...pubmed/24949966
https://www.ncbi.nlm...pubmed/26774381
https://www.ncbi.nlm...pubmed/16635689
https://www.ncbi.nlm...les/PMC2290997/
and more
Comments that sunlight is good for you especially if you have depression.
 


#59 fishinghat

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Posted 19 April 2019 - 08:39 AM

And more

Mucuna pruriens (Velvet Bean)
No more than 500 mg a day is generally necessary to experience all of Mucuna’s effects. If you take Mucuna too frequently, you may start to develop tolerances over time which cause you to increase dosage too quickly.

https://www.ncbi.nlm...les/PMC4213977/
Overview of its use in treating depression.

Curcumin is the main active ingredient in the spice turmeric. It readily crosses the blood-brain barrier where it boosts levels of dopamine. Curcumin has been found to be as effective for treating depression as the popular antidepressant Prozac. When buying a curcumin supplement look for one that contains piperine, a compound found in black pepper that increases curcumin absorption by a remarkable 2,000%.

https://www.ncbi.nlm...pubmed/18766332
Antidepressant activity of curcumin: involvement of serotonin and dopamine system.
The study provides evidences for mechanism-based antidepressant actions of curcumin. The coadministration of curcumin along with piperine may prove to be a useful and potent natural antidepressant approach in the management of depression.
And many other articles.
 


#60 fishinghat

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Posted 19 April 2019 - 10:45 AM

Raven, I am encouraged by the results for this amino acid on depression.

L-acetyl carnitine

https://www.ncbi.nlm...pubmed/15383157
Effect of intraperitoneal acetyl-L-carnitine (ALCAR) on anxiety-like behaviours in rats.
Levine J1, Kaplan Z, Pettegrew JW, McClure RJ, Gershon S, Buriakovsky I, Cohen H.

https://peerj.com/articles/5309/
Anxiolytic and anti-stress effects of acute administration of acetyl-L-carnitine in zebrafish
Lais Pancotto​1, Ricieri Mocelin​2, Matheus Marcon2, Ana P. Herrmann1, Angelo Piato​1,2,3

http://accurateclini...ession-2014.pdf
A review of current evidence for acetyl-L-carnitine in the treatment of depression

"The results showed that mean BDI and State-trait anxiety inventory (STAI) scores were signifcantly lower in the ALC group than in the PBO group at day 90 (for both, P < 0.001)."

https://www.nature.c...ticles/mp201668
Stress-induced structural plasticity of medial amygdala stellate neurons and rapid prevention by a candidate antidepressant
T Lau, B Bigio, D Zelli, B S McEwen & C Nasca

https://ihrmagazine....mood-disorders/
Acetyl-L-carnitine for depression and mood disorders

https://www.ncbi.nlm...dmeta-analysis
Acetyl-L-Carnitine Supplementation and the Treatment of Depressive Symptoms: A Systematic Review and Meta-Analysis.
Veronese N1, Stubbs B, Solmi M, Ajnakina O, Carvalho AF, Maggi S.
a total of 791 (human) participants
...showed that ALC significantly reduced depressive symptoms.
In these latter RCTs, the incidence of adverse effects was significantly lower in the ALC group than in the antidepressant group. Subgroup analyses suggested that ALC was most efficacious in older adults.

https://www.ncbi.nlm...pubmed/30917915
Acetyl-L-carnitine as a putative candidate for the treatment of stress-related psychiatric disorders: Novel evidence from a zebrafish model.
Marcon M1, Mocelin R1, de Oliveira DL2, da Rosa Araujo AS3, Herrmann AP4, Piato A5.

https://www.ncbi.nlm...les/PMC6112703/
Acetyl-l-carnitine deficiency in patients with major depressive disorder.
Nasca C1, Bigio B2,3, Lee FS4,5, Young SP6,7, Kautz MM8, Albright A5, Beasley J7, Millington DS6,7, Mathé AA9, Kocsis JH5, Murrough JW8, McEwen BS1, Rasgon N2,10.

https://www.ncbi.nlm...pubmed/21443422
Acetyl-L-carnitine reduces depression and improves quality of life in patients with minimal hepatic encephalopathy.
Malaguarnera M1, Bella R, Vacante M, Giordano M, Malaguarnera G, Gargante MP, Motta M, Mistretta A, Rampello L, Pennisi G.

https://www.ncbi.nlm...les/PMC3607061/
L-acetylcarnitine causes rapid antidepressant effects through the epigenetic induction of mGlu2 receptors
Carla Nasca,a,1 Dionysios Xenos,a Ylenia Barone,b Alessandra Caruso,a Sergio Scaccianoce,a Francesco Matrisciano,a Giuseppe Battaglia,c Aleksander A. Mathé,d Anna Pittaluga,e Luana Lionetto,f Maurizio Simmaco,f and Ferdinando Nicoletti
The rapid and long-lasting antidepressant action of LAC strongly suggests a unique approach to examine the epigenetic hypothesis of depressive disorders in humans, paving the way for more efficient antidepressants with faster onset of action.

https://www.ncbi.nlm...les/PMC3773672/
Upregulation of mGlu2 Receptors via NF-κB p65 Acetylation Is Involved in the Proneurogenic and Antidepressant Effects of Acetyl-L-Carnitine
Bruna Cuccurazzu,1,2,4 Valeria Bortolotto,1,2,4 Maria Maddalena Valente,1,2 Federica Ubezio,1,2 Aleardo Koverech,3 Pier Luigi Canonico,2 and Mariagrazia Grilli1,2,*


https://www.webmd.co...tyl-l-carnitine

Side Effects & Safety
Acetyl-L-carnitine is LIKELY SAFE for most adults and POSSIBLY SAFE for most children when taken by mouth. It can cause some side effects including stomach upset, nausea, vomiting, dry mouth, headache, and restlessness. It can also cause a "fishy" odor of the urine, breath, and sweat.

Acetyl-L-carnitine is POSSIBLY SAFE for most adults when given intravenously (by IV). Use only under medical supervision.
Special Precautions & Warnings:
Pregnancy and breast-feeding: Not enough is known about the use of acetyl-L-carnitine during pregnancy and breast-feeding. Stay on the safe side and avoid use.

Bipolar disorder: Acetyl-L-carnitine might worsen symptoms in people with bipolar disorder who are currently in remission.

Nerve pain (neuropathy) caused by chemotherapy: Acetyl-L-carnitine might worsen symptoms in some people with nerve pain caused by a class of chemotherapy drugs known as taxanes.

Under-active thyroid (hypothyroidism): There is some concern that acetyl-L-carnitine might interfere with thyroid hormone. Don't use acetyl-L-carnitine if you have an under-active thyroid.

Seizures: An increase in the number or seriousness of seizures has been reported in people with a history of seizures who have used L-carnitine by mouth or by IV (intravenously). Since L-carnitine is related to acetyl-L-carnitine, there is a concern that this might also occur with acetyl-L-carnitine. If you have ever had a seizure, don't take acetyl-L-carnitine.





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