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2 Months Off After Somewhat Slow Taper. Really Struggling


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#121 fishinghat

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Posted 24 December 2019 - 05:52 PM

50 mg a day is not a high dosage and the withdrawal should be fairly light. A break every few days should make the withdrawal even easier but on the flip side you do need your rest. Only you can make that decision.

#122 Mxpro32

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Posted 24 December 2019 - 08:18 PM

I went back to my psychiatrist. We lowered the dose on my concerta cause I think it's aggravating my anxiety. Went from 54mg to 36mg. Seems to have helped. I tried not taking it at all the last 2 days and the anxiety was better, and I was much sleepier at night, but I'm having depressed moods creep in. I'm thinking I need to taper off this too, since withdrawals can include depression. My moods are so sensitive. My thoughts require constant vigilance or anxiety gets crazy, or depression swoops in. Sometimes I get panicked if I start thinking maybe this is as good as it gets and it will always require thought vigilance, and I will always be super sensitive to stress. I really don't have good reason to believe this, considering the progress I've made. My business sold a lot of product the last 2 weeks, so now I'm stressing cause I will have to count on myself to consistently work hard and long hours to catch up.

#123 fishinghat

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Posted 25 December 2019 - 09:18 AM

It is still early in your process Mxpro. You may have 2 or 3 months before you start seeing significant signs of improvement. Do you ever have any brief periods of feeling OK?

The added stress of your work won't help but sometimes there is no way to avoid it. I wish I could make it easier.

#124 invalidusername

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Posted 25 December 2019 - 10:23 AM

My goodness, yes, give yourself a break. There is a lot of stress going on here. 

 

Don't try and run away from your thoughts though. It cannot be done. Acceptance is the only key. Trying to avoid such thoughts only leads to fear - I know this only too well. It is such a difficult thing to deal with, but you shouldn't be telling your self to have vigilance with these thoughts. They are like the proverbial bully in the playground. You react to them and they will continue to trouble you more. You ignore them and they soon get tired of not getting a reaction. Let them be as best you can. It is such a paradox, but it is the only way it will see you through without causing you more concern.


#125 Mxpro32

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Posted 25 December 2019 - 11:51 AM

When I say vigilance, I mean being careful not to indulge the negative thoughts but ignore them and let them pass. Also, trying not to indulge the negative emotions by letting my thoughts run with them. Yeah, I have some pretty good days, amd overall they are trending in the right direction. It's rare that my anxiety or depression is overwhelming. I just keep freaking myself out with thoughts of "what if this is the best it gets" "what if I'm done improving". Again, rationally I have no reason to believe that.

#126 invalidusername

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Posted 25 December 2019 - 03:58 PM

I understand - and I too have had those exact same thoughts. Still do. I forget that I am capable of having really good days - it is my perfectionism coming out. You have done really well since you have been here and faced a fair bit. Keep in mind those moments where there has been a real test. You know the truth - and the truth is that things do return to normal... not perfect (!)... but normal!!


#127 Mxpro32

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Posted 26 December 2019 - 01:08 AM

Well, I didn't take my Ritalin (concerta) the last 2 days, and my anxiety was basically gone, but my mood was a little down. Today I took it (the reduced 36mg dose), and I'm anxious with chest pounding, clinching my jaw, headache. Felt like a tweaker. Since quitting cymbalta, I can't drink coffee without anxiety, and I'm thinking the concerta is causing a big portion of my anxiety and physical symptoms. I'm thinking of having the Dr. Give me the lowest 18mg dose so I can taper off and minimize the withdrawal depression.

#128 fishinghat

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Posted 26 December 2019 - 09:14 AM

You could be quite right Mxpro as Ritalin is a strong stimulant and can make anxiety worse. It is worth a try.

#129 invalidusername

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Posted 26 December 2019 - 10:12 AM

...and as it is often said that depression is the flip side of the coin to anxiety, so a sudden drop of anxiety can often lead to a moment of depression. I would experiment a little further - if you can - and get a more definite answer as to the cause of the anxiety. This time of the year isn't the best for doing such things as there are so many variables, so if you can manage it, I would try going off and on again to make sure the same results ensue. Anxiety can come out of thin air this time of year!!


#130 Mxpro32

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Posted 26 December 2019 - 01:57 PM

I've noticed that too, when I'm able to relax my mind and relieve the anxiety, depression sometimes sets in. In contrast to when I didn't take it, the physical effects were pretty clear. I was so antsy i almost couldn't sit still, I could feel it in my system. I couldn't stop clinching my jaw which gave me a headache, and my chest was pounding. Not as bad as the 54mg, but that almost made the effects more noticeable because the anxiety wasn't overwhelming. I had a hard time getting sleepy last night too even with the .5mg Xanax and the 50mg trazadone. The nights where I didn't take the concerta, I was sleepy and only needed .25mg Xanax to sleep. I woke up with more anxious energy this morning and still feel antsy from taking it yesterday.

#131 fishinghat

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Posted 26 December 2019 - 05:20 PM

This is called rebound depression. As IUN indicated as severe anxiety subsides it often fades into depression. The drop in anxiety is usually due to a drop in adrenaline and/or serotonin. Often times, especially in withdrawal, the body overcompensates for anxiety and drops the adrenaline and/or serotonin too low which is what brings on the depression.

#132 Mxpro32

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Posted 26 December 2019 - 06:39 PM

Makes sense. I didn't take the concerta today and I feel much better. I'm debating just not taking it any more, or getting put on a lower dose for a while

#133 invalidusername

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Posted 26 December 2019 - 06:51 PM

This is the issue with getting the balance right. Your system is still trying to sort itself out, and the influence of the other meds can confuse matters so you are never sure where the source is coming from. But a drug-free withdrawal isn't always possible, so when additional meds are called for, it can sometimes take a bit longer, but it is at least more tolerable.

 

So, all considered, it is a bit of a trade-off. Hope that makes sense...


#134 fishinghat

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Posted 27 December 2019 - 08:45 AM

Be careful Mxpro. Ritalin has a rather nasty withdrawal. If you start getting worse you might have to take a little from time to time to take the edge off. Watch for muscle cramps, that is one of the first withdrawal symptoms.

#135 Mxpro32

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Posted 27 December 2019 - 08:00 PM

Be careful Mxpro. Ritalin has a rather nasty withdrawal. If you start getting worse you might have to take a little from time to time to take the edge off. Watch for muscle cramps, that is one of the first withdrawal symptoms.


That's what I'm thinking till I can get the lower dose. I feel amped when I take it

#136 Mxpro32

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Posted 29 December 2019 - 12:00 PM

I'm taking my concerta today. A few days off and I get depressed and my thoughts turn dark. I start thinking about death and how even my kids (4 and 6) are going to die, and it feels scary and like life is pointless. We'll see how today goes. If the anxiety gets out of hand I'm talking to my Dr. As it is it feels like a pick your poison situation.

#137 fishinghat

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Posted 29 December 2019 - 01:07 PM

I noticed a couple of things about concerta.

 

The most common side effect is upper abdominal pain.

 

Also, discontinue concerta over a month or more of weaning. Sudden stopping can cause suicidal thoughts.


#138 Mxpro32

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Posted 29 December 2019 - 04:08 PM

I noticed a couple of things about concerta.

The most common side effect is upper abdominal pain.

Also, discontinue concerta over a month or more of weaning. Sudden stopping can cause suicidal thoughts.


Yeah, I'm thinking I need to ride out this dose for a while. My thoughts and mood are getting pretty dark. I took the concerta today and I haven't had anxiety. Mood and thoughts are still dark though.

#139 Mxpro32

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Posted 31 December 2019 - 04:07 PM

Man, I dealt with that same difficult customer who treats me like crap, and my anxiety goes through the roof. Happened this morning and I'm struggling to recover. Doesn't help that I kept waking up last night terrified of all the worst possible scenarios that could happen to me (wife dying, kids dying, losing my business, losing my health, etc.). My emotions are just always so powerful and raw now. Anything sad makes me bawl, stress makes me flip my lid, past painful memories hurt like they were yesterday, happy emotions are more powerful too luckily. Unfortunately, my mind is mainly in "prevent disaster" mode, instead of motivated to accomplish good things mode. I'm always pessimistic and expecting the worst and scared of how painful life's inevitable tragedies will be. It sucks. I'm wondering if this is still withdrawal, or my emotions being raw after being numbed by meds for so long. Maybe that's the same thing.

#140 fishinghat

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Posted 31 December 2019 - 04:15 PM

Still withdrawal. I was very lucky durimg my withdrawal to have a really good therapist. She warned me about the mood swings and cautioned me not to watch tv or listen to music as it would play havoc with my emotions. I also did not receive phone calls or visitors because that would also ramp up the emotions. It depends on the individual but that stage can last 4 to 6 months. Really sucks.

#141 invalidusername

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Posted 31 December 2019 - 05:13 PM

Yup - that is the upshot of too many days of withdrawal. Your nerves are right on the edge 24/7... and for the third consecutive opinion.. it sucks!


#142 Mxpro32

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Posted 31 December 2019 - 06:16 PM

Still withdrawal. I was very lucky durimg my withdrawal to have a really good therapist. She warned me about the mood swings and cautioned me not to watch tv or listen to music as it would play havoc with my emotions. I also did not receive phone calls or visitors because that would also ramp up the emotions. It depends on the individual but that stage can last 4 to 6 months. Really sucks.


I really wish I could put my business aside for a while. The daily stress of it is hard enough, but then I'm always stepping on emotional landmines like angry customers or supply shortages, or things I forgot to do (which happen more cause my mind is a mess). They really screw me up. I wish I had time to just heal. I need to quit tinkering with meds too. I didn't take the trazadone last night cause I was actually sleepy, then I kept waking up with fearful anxious thoughts. I need to stop reading into things so much too. I'm always questioning if I'd be able to function at a job if I lost my business, or if I could handle a major loss, or if this is just the way I am now.

#143 fishinghat

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Posted 31 December 2019 - 06:36 PM

The withdrawal effects the parts of the brain called the hippocampus and the amygdala. These two areas include the centers for emotions, especially fear, worry and paranoia. These things that run through your mind are part of that chemical reaction in the brain and will fade as the brain adjusts. Don't let it make you feel insecure. We all go through this and it will end.

#144 Mxpro32

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Posted 31 December 2019 - 07:05 PM

The withdrawal effects the parts of the brain called the hippocampus and the amygdala. These two areas include the centers for emotions, especially fear, worry and paranoia. These things that run through your mind are part of that chemical reaction in the brain and will fade as the brain adjusts. Don't let it make you feel insecure. We all go through this and it will end.


Thank you

#145 Mxpro32

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Posted 31 December 2019 - 07:50 PM

It's weird how my symptoms keep changing. I guess it's part of the calibration. The last few days, I haven't struggled with anxiety, even on the Ritalin. Even my fearful thoughts last night didn't feel like anxiety. The customer attacking caused anxiety, but it didn't last all day, it just turned to depression and sadness. I've actually been really tired and sleepy all day the last few days (until I go to bed). It's like the pendulum has swung too far the other way. I just feel like crying.

#146 invalidusername

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Posted 31 December 2019 - 08:23 PM

It's like the pendulum has swung too far the other way.

 

...textbook withdrawal behaviour


#147 Mxpro32

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Posted 01 January 2020 - 02:43 PM

Another night of crap sleep. Didn't fall asleep til midnight, even with the trazadone and Xanax, then woke up at 4 and couldn't go back to sleep even with Xanax and melatonin. Man this sleep thing is getting old. It makes everything else harder.

#148 invalidusername

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Posted 01 January 2020 - 03:51 PM

As "new-age" as it might sound, have you tried meditation?

 

It was the only thing that rescued me when I had sleep issues...


#149 Mxpro32

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Posted 01 January 2020 - 03:56 PM

As "new-age" as it might sound, have you tried meditation?

It was the only thing that rescued me when I had sleep issues...


I keep intending too. I just don't for some reason. Not exactly sure how

#150 invalidusername

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Posted 01 January 2020 - 04:15 PM

I started with Jason Stevenson's stuff on Youtube and then learnt properly using Headspace.

 

I could share some stuff with you to get you going, but it is your mind you need to quieten more than anything else. It does take commitment, but once you have got it, you can use it anywhere. I frequently stop in the car between appointment, sitting in traffic... far better for you than reaching for a benzo each time.





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