469 replies to this topic

[fishinghat]

"The wife pointed out, and is convinced, Valium is my problem and I have never really stopped and stayed stopped long enough to heal mentally."

 

A very wise women. From what I have read in the medical journals and what my drs have told me that it takes around 2 years for the brain/nerves to fully recover from a neurological medication like benzos. Nerve tissue is very slow to adapt and recover unluckily. I have also seen research that has indicated that in order to secure success in restarting an old psych med (AD, benzo, etc) the person should have been off the med for at least 2 years. If restarted before that time period success varies considerably.

[invalidusername]

Jon....

 

I cannot emphasise enough from someone that has been there himself. 

 

Withdrawal from ANY benzo is horrific. 

 

I have gone through SO MANY withdrawals in my mental health history and I remember this more than anything. PLEASE, for the love of God, listen to your wife as Hat said. Benzo withdrawal is worse than meth. That should give you some sort of idea. It is the third worst substance to withdraw from according to reliable sources.

 

PLEASE..... don't take this so quickly. It will hurt you. I should know as I have been there.

 

It is ultimately your decision, but I am pleading with you to go back to your last stable dose.

 

Your decision at the end of the day, and I will help you whatever you decide, but benzo withdrawal should NEVER be taken lightly. NEVER. It can ruin a person - and I do not say this lightly. It is your decision, but both Hat and and myself know of benzo withdrawal and have seen many member on this site and others where people have stopped benzos too quickly. 

 

I am not going to lie to you, it the worst case, it has led to suicide. 

 

Think strongly about this.. PLEASE.

 

IUN

[looneytune]

IUN.......stable now, thanks, on day 9 at 2mg. Had 5 GOOD days from seven and that is something,believe me

 

Thanks for concern. Comfort blanket of Diazepam is gone and head is clearer and mornings are now easier to negotiate. I have actually made some good strides forward but it has been so slow that it's not always easy to see how far one has come

 

I am actually making it out the front door and have started my morning walks again. Yesterday I noticed the smell of the ocean and realised it had been a while since I even noticed it was there

 

In my heart and head I know instinctively that the worst of the withdraws are behind me....save for the odd flashback I guess but things ARE improving and now need to manage situations without the Dizzypam comfort blanket. I could not "go back the way" and start at higher dose but I fully understand your concerns but trust me on this, I am fine and coping

 

It's so crazy man, but now that head is clear even audio (street sounds) sound the way they should rather than some distant sound track. Jeez O.....Diazepam is some bad shit

 

My days of old ( pre shit storm) were always split into three sessions,6 days a week.....1 hour 30 min walk in the morning.......weights and exercises in afternoon for a further 1 hour 30 and guitar playing at night from one to four hours....I am part way there already to getting this routine back but have already made some mistakes in doing too much too soon and exhausting myself....baby steps is the way methinks for now especially as I have been laid up so long

 

I ain't finished with you boys just yet though  I intend to hang around for your great wisdom and advice and to keep y'all up to date on how I am doing....talking helps me

 

I actually caught myself singing today FFS....long may it continue. I don't want to have come through all this for nothing.....I would like there to be some sort of reward, even if that reward was only to be a better person in the end

 

Happy Guy Fawkes day

[looneytune]

Could I expect the drop from 3mg to 2mg and 2mg to 1mg to be just as tough ?

[fishinghat]

Yes, or even worse I am afraid. Those last few mg seem to always be the hardest.

[looneytune]

Thanks FH

 

Does my "good days/bad days" make any sense during this lengthy taper program?

 

John

[fishinghat]

It is what many have called the "Cymbalta rollercoaster". What really struck me about it was that when I felt good I felt like I would never feel bad again and when I felt bad I felt like I would never feel good again.

[looneytune]

It be Diazepam, I be a talkin' about MH.......

 

Could I expect the drop from 3mg to 2mg and 2mg to 1mg to be just as tough ?

[looneytune]

Diazepam withdraws after intermittent usage for over year at least

 

It's landed and peaking and so very horrible........I don't wanna get out of bed in mornings,is that OK to sleep some of it off?

 

Sore bones/not sleeping at night/dreads/feeling that if my stomach rumbles I have cancer in stomach/it's 3 pm and have rallied a little/

 

The irony is, I feel this morning exactly how I felt when I first approached Doc for help for depression......doom/doom/ and more doom....never gonna get over it

 

So negative and morbid it's untrue.......I am not going to start again at last levelled out dose...I have come too far with this one

 

It's been a couple of months since try to taper from 7mg and some time 10mg a day down to 3mg in one go and periods in-between when i was suffering and sneaked some extra dosage in to "taper program".......It's been a very dishonest attempt and lengthy but this feels like payback time

 

feels like digest and bowels are complaining too IDK....no thoughts of suicide but have negative intrusive thoughts about self and If I will ever make it out

 

PS day 3 of 1mg a day. This is the longest period I have been "off them".....I HAVE stopped before this past year but as soon as I started to feel unmanageable nervous jitters (most likely withdraws from previous diazepam!!!) i helped myself to a few and started the cycle again.............that's what I think has happened. I have been postponing what I am going through today

[invalidusername]

It be Diazepam, I be a talkin' about MH.......

 

Could I expect the drop from 3mg to 2mg and 2mg to 1mg to be just as tough ?

 

Your 3mg to 2mg is a 33% drop, and your 2mg to 1mg is a 50% drop - then 1mg to 0mg is 100% drop, so it is a sharp curve which is why so many people find the sting at this point. Each drop is bigger as you go down. But as diazepam has a long half life, you are safe to make 2.5mg from taking 2mg one day and 3mg the next. 

 

Unlike Cymbalta which has a very short half-life and can cause more harm than good. 

 

Just go easy!! Give yourself a lot of self-compassion and avoid anything that you can foresee might give you any stress. Stress is a major player that needs to be controlled as much as possible..

 

IUN

[looneytune]

Thanks guys  

 

A wee question for y'all.......regarding Duloxetine.......are you guys OK with someone who is successfully managing their depression with respectful dose of Duloxetine and is it just the withdrawal and lack of GP's adequate warning when discontinuing med that bugs you about the capsule?

[invalidusername]

Quite - we understand that Duloxetine WILL help for some and we aren't in the business of spreading news that Duloxetine is a bad drug. But we are here to help people when they need information about it - and other meds. Updosing, downdosing, withdrawal, beadcounting, timetabling withdrawals, anything that will aid a withdrawal...

 

That is what we are here for.

 

For sure Eli Lilly have got some dark secrets covered up, but then again, which big Pharma doesnt?

[looneytune]

IUN and guys...Re  ^^^^^^^^ Diazepam taper

 

Now that I am down to the nitty gritty on half tab, 1mg, after many months of (ab)use is the upset stomach and shitz part of the reward?

 

and is renewed stress part of the course as in all AD meds at this point?

 

Thanks Guys 

[fishinghat]

My opinion...yes. Most AD meds effect serotonin and it is the most common neurotransmitter in the digestive tract. Benzos effect the gaba receptors which act, in part, as a stabilizer for the nervous tissue. Aren't we lucky!? NOT!!

[invalidusername]

Absolutely... the serotonin is largely concentrate in the gut, hence the issue. As Hat said, is the most common most neutrotransmitter which is why we are always harping on about pre and probiotics.  

 

The biggest nerve in the body, the vagus nerve, is largely concentrated in the GI area and controls a lot of mood stabailising. 

 

Diet and supplements can often play more of a part than most think if done correctly.

 

IUN

[looneytune]

Had a month from hell with Dizzypam taper and likely overuse on my part TBH.....things started to happen in stages when I decided to rid myself of Diazepam..........

 

Head started to clear and woolliness was gone.....it was as if, not only my mind was in slo mo, but body functions too,all of 'em.....so all inner workings perked up

 

Less tired and indifferent and more like to get out over the door and do some shit....tomorrow is my last 1mg tab and feeling OK about that

 

Thank you to the two cats above 

 

PS I can't believe (and this is all true) my wife who has been offering advice all through my loooooong depression that I have been paying no attention to....." get rid of those Valium for ever...

spend less time in your bed, it only makes you worse.....take some Greek yogurt or kefir and get your gut and vagus back to health after all those painkillers and AD's you've been swallowing....stop eating/drinking all that sugar crap and drop some VIT D whilst you are at it"   Scotland = no Sun 

 

PPS I discovered all about the vagus nerve when I started looking into ectopic beats......that nerve is quite the busy fellow

 

Thanks again

[fishinghat]

When you get feeling better you need to do something special for your wife. Hard to find that wise a women. Keep us posted.

[invalidusername]

Agree with Hat on this one. 

 

It is so easy to see from outside the situation, but when you are in it yourself, it makes it so much more difficult!!

 

IUN

[looneytune]

 

[looneytune]

2 good days in a row,yeah. Then get up this morn like shit, so low! Took last 1mg last night. Depressed because I am depressed! FFS

 

Is this to be expected....is the Dizzypam assault not finished with me yet, can things ebb and flow for a while?

[invalidusername]

That is the very first thing that I got when I made an attempt to go 10mg to 5mg in one go. 

 

Had a honeymoon period of around 4-5 days thinking... "sweet... I got this!"

 

Then it hit me like a boot in the crown jewels. Horrific depression. 

 

You are smack dab in the middle of the "roller-coaster" as Hat has named it.

 

My sympathies,

 

IUN

[looneytune]

Ta  

[invalidusername]

Apologies, should have approached that more gently, but just know that the ups and downs of the rollercoaster can only gt better with time as the brain figures out the homeostasis again. 

 

It will for sure get better, but it is just unfortunate that there is the inevitable delay while these things have to find out the means to get things clearer following the length of term on the med....

 

Again, sorry to hear that you are going thru this. Should it help, I seem to be having some sort of PAWS reaction to my withdrawal from the sauce - just the same - depression. Really trying to tell myself that which I have just told you. That my brain is also finding its way through the fog. It sucks... but we can see it through

 

IUN

[looneytune]

*Diazepam*

 

I'm a bit confused......the drop from 7mg to 3mg is a 4mg drop and was a bit tough but the drop from 1mg to zero (yes, a 100% drop) is causing me all sorts of problems and although 100% it's only 1mg compared to the larger drop of 4! WTF?

 

IT'S DAY 3 on ZERO Valium (a drop of just 1mg to zero!) and things are really SHIT!.......night time sweats....not much sleep and when I do sleep,the night terrors!!! no appetite......and most concerning,stomach/bowel cramps and loadsa diarrhoea......Benzo Belly the net calls it....some anxiety and plenty fed up....oh, and something else I notice which appears to be quite popular with users/taper, Agoraphobia........GUYS! Is it at all possible that that last wee drop/taper of 1mg to zero is making my life such a misery right now? 

 

I have been using these meds on and off for so long now and now that I have stopped the gut problems are full on

 

This sucks

 

PS Daft question of the month......the shitz /the runs coincided with the zero taper but also coincided with a change of Duloxetine BRAND/same strength just different manufacturer....that's only change in the past 3 days or so. Is my thoughts that the shitz may be caused by new/different brand just paranoia.....and the bowel problems most likely the result of the zero Valium program?

 

Guys will it ever end?

[fishinghat]

I have been a member of Benzo Buddies for around 19 years. Yes, the further you drop the harder it gets. The further you drop the more synapses you have competing for less and less benzo. I know that really sucks but unluckily synapses do not recover quickly and the only cure is time and patience.

[looneytune]

Thanks Hat you're a sweetie

[looneytune]

RE  Daft question of the month......the shitz /the runs coincided with the zero taper but also coincided with a change of Duloxetine BRAND/same strength just different manufacturer....that's only change in the past 3 days or so. Is my thoughts that the shitz may be caused by new/different brand just paranoia.....and the bowel problems most likely the result of the zero Valium program?

 

Is it at all possible that a change of brand has set in motion my bowel troubles again after getting used to the original brand?

 

It's the exact same projection diarrhoea that blighted my initial original Duloxetine....FTR I have IBS courtesy of Ankylosing Spondylitis but my feeling is this horror show of the shitz is the different brand of Duloxetine that be causing it

 

Seeing doc on Thursday......an important question coming up guys in a few moments

[looneytune]

I would prefer to stay on Duloxetine 30 after all the effort I have put in but if Doc wants to overrule me I'd like to be prepared.....

 

By the time of my next appointment next week it will be 15 weeks on Duloxetine

 

If I had to come off them and not suffer the consequences would this taper plan be OK?

 

A drop from 30 to 20mg and sit on it for two weeks >>>>then....

 

A drop from 20 to 10mg and sit on it for two weeks>>>>then....

 

Come back and see you guys for advice on how to manage the last 10mg!?

[invalidusername]

Typically, one would increase the withdrawal to be consistent with the level of drop. This is where a lot of people need the guidance.

 

So to make it a simple example -

 

30 to 20 drop is a drop of 10mg, but it is a 33% drop relative to the starting dose <<< this is the important part

 

20 to 10 drop is ALSO a drop of 10mg, but is a 50% drop relative to the 20mg starting dose, therefore it will be more difficult.

 

As a result you would consider 33 days for the first drop and 50 days for the second drop to keep things balanced.

 

It is always a question of listening to your body and if you feel good, then you can go that little bit quicker. 

 

I would personally be concerned about dropping the Dulox at the same time as the Diazepam. 

 

I will allow Hat to weigh in, but I am sure he will agree that withdrawals should be done one at a time, unless there are serious reasons for it. If you end up having to go back on previous doses because the withdrawal is too much, then you will end up with kindling whereby each additional withdrawal before more difficult. Having been there myself, I can tell you it is no party. Coming off pregabalin and escitalporam at the same time during Christmas 2018 (I think?!).... a whole week in bed barely even managing to get myself to the bathroom. This following an overdose of diazepam which landed me in an ambulance to hospital. Lucky to still be here. 

 

Withdrawals are better off not planned too much as things will change along the way - hopefully for the better. As I said, you might find that you are able to cope and can keep going, but you have to give your body time to adjust with each drop. 

 

IUN

[fishinghat]

"I would personally be concerned about dropping the Dulox at the same time as the Diazepam. 

 

I will allow Hat to weigh in, but I am sure he will agree that withdrawals should be done one at a time, unless there are serious reasons for it."

 

Absolutely