110 replies to this topic

[fishinghat]

FN

 

    What dose of Lunesta you on? I believe the lunesta reacts with the same benzo neuroreceptors as the valium so this makes valium a little easier to get addicted to. I am going to double check that and post what I find. Yes, you got a little carried away with the valium. As a back up to just take the edge off the anxiety 2mg/day is about right.  You can come off benzos with little or no withdrawals but it is very slow and yes it is water titration (the only way to go with benzos).

 

Remember Zoloft builds slowly. You would have to go on 50 mg for around 3 weeks before you could tell if it is going to help. I like what my dr did. He gave me a prescription for 150 mg/day (using 25 mg tablets).. He said start at 25 for a week, then 50 for two weeks, and then increase it by 25 mg every two weeks. When you hit a level that doe well for you then just stay at that level.

 

Getting of Zoloft is a very slow process because of its long half life. What you need to do is to buy a jewelers scale (weighs tiny amounts), Scrap a little bit off your Zoloft. (say 5% of the total weight of one days dose).  Every 2 to 3 weeks increase the amount you scrap off your tablets. Some people can remove more and taper quicker than others (just like Cymbalta). You will have some withdrawal but nothing compared to Cymbalta. Because of the longer half life it takes longer for you body to stabilize at the new dosage.

[FiveNotions]

Ok, I think that makes up my mind....no Zoloft for me at this point....I'll stick with the Valium.....2 mg max per day....and focus on getting off it in the next few days...

.will I have withdrawal effects if I quit the Zoloft cold turkey after just three doses of 50 mg?

And how long on the Valium before I can't get off without withdrawal? If I use just 2 mg or less a day for the next few days....say a total of a week....am I into withdrawal I'm that?

He gave me the 3 mg lunesta...which is the strongest strength.....I don't think taking Valium with it at night is a good idea....

Thank you so much for all this info, Fishinghat .....you are anGodsend!

[fishinghat]

Ok, I think that makes up my mind....no Zoloft for me at this point....I'll stick with the Valium.....2 mg max per day....and focus on getting off it in the next few days...

.will I have withdrawal effects if I quit the Zoloft cold turkey after just three doses of 50 mg?

And how long on the Valium before I can't get off without withdrawal? If I use just 2 mg or less a day for the next few days....say a total of a week....am I into withdrawal I'm that?

He gave me the 3 mg lunesta...which is the strongest strength.....I don't think taking Valium with it at night is a good idea....

Thank you so much for all this info, Fishinghat .....you are anGodsend!

 

You may have some light withdrawal but I would still recommend a step down. Say 25 for a week them 12 mg for a week.

 

There are records of addiction to small doses of valium in as little as 2 weeks but more typical is a month to 3 months. In the presence of Lunesta addiction occurs much more quickly. What ever you do, do NOT try and stop the valium and lunesta at the same time. it will really bite you. I was on Ambien at the same time as lorazepam a few years ago. I remember trying to come of the Ambien, which is suppose to be non-addictive. WOW Did I ever have withdrawal. I called my dr and she said 'no way'. So I got on ncbi and found the articles where you are not suppose to take it with benzos as you will develop a strong addiction. I showed it to my dr who said they never knew that.

 

If there is anything else you need let me know.

[FiveNotions]

Oh crap...I ran out of the lunesta after taking it on Wednesday night....didn't take it last night,won't tonight...I forgot to pick up the refill on Friday, I was all focused on the Valium etc...

Am I going to have withdrawal? I'd been taking it off and on for a bout a mount...then nightly beginning about 2 weeks ago....I can't get the refill until tomorrow....

Besides, I should get off it, as it wasn't helping....I probably shouldn't have started using it regularly and just dealt with the sleep thing in other ways....

Damn, forget the anxiety attack, I'm having an attack of pure stupid! :-(

[fishinghat]

If you haven't taken it the last two nights and didn't have any signs of withdrawal you should be OK. I would just see if you can work out a way to get sleep without the lunesta. Isn't medicine fun!!??

[FiveNotions]

Oh yeah, my new favorite hobby /sarc

We'll see if any symptoms hit tomorrow....if not, I'm not going to take it again....if so....aw shit....

[inajam]

Its just that it seems to be going on forever.  I stopped on 2nd May, from 60mg p/day to 50mg p/day Zoloft, ( this was done suddenly, under advisement I must add, which i'm very upset/angry about), so its 5 weeks now and i'm still suffering terribly. I sometimes feel like i'm getting worse as opposed to better!  thats what is getting me down mentally as well as physically, the monotany of the 'daily sameness' is slowly grinding me down to, i just don't know what, coz i don't know what will be left of me if/when i get better.  Will improvement/getting better happen suddenly or gradually??

 

Despondency/frustration isn't a pleasant place to be resident atm, although I am trying to keep my chin up everyone.

 

Think I may take a break from here after all and see what happens,too confused all the time

 

inajam 

So, another 2 days have passed without any improvement yet even though i thought at one point it may be improving (typical trick of this crap) in particular the zaps, but now stomach issues, sometimes slurring my words, balance issues (anyone else get/had these please let me know i'd be grateful??) as well as the norm.  Hope to have a positive visit with my doctor, as mentioned, this afternoon, and will have to really summon up some strength to tell him i'm not happy about how the whole situation has been handled and changes are needed to achieve progress (decided to take someone along with me for support on this one occasion, although more they have insisted more out of/due to concern).  I'm still here anyway so that's a good thing, and I am trying to accept that the situation is what it is and not of my doing.  However, i find it really difficult to believe i am like this.  I have had to take medication for years, unfortunately it was the hand I was dealt as a youngster (which makes this all the worse) and have never, ever experienced a withdrawal, switch, whatever you want to call it, as awful/bad as this.  

 

I haven't really said exactly how i feel about the situation overall before, (because i'm so angry, upset, sad, hopeless and now suffering with feelings of loneliness), that i'm afraid my fellow colleagues, it would include far too much questionable language and too many expletives to be allowed as a post, that's how it would come out and I don't want to do that, but it makes me feel like that.  The fact is no one should ever be put in this position in the first place and yet here i am, hoping my brain will 're-wire' itself properly, although i don't know for certain if that will happen properly and that my new medication will help me with my original problems!  It is madness. Total, utter, madness, that i'm living in a world where this type of situation is allowed to be created in the first place and even worse, continued.

 

Forgive my rambling on please everyone it just came out i'm afraid coz i'm just sitting here on my own thinking.

 

Will see what today brings and just hope its good coz if it ain't then that's probably my job gone and who know's where I will be left at...?

 

If you read this I hope I haven't offended or upset anyone, and if you respond please be gentle as I am 'living on the edge'/feeling fragile right now.  Also, thank you for respecting and not judging.

 

BTW, I may decide not to post again on here after today because I may feel I have exhausted all the support I can get/be given, but thanks always anyway.  Its just the way I feel right now.

 

Take care, inajam

[FiveNotions]

Inajam, don't you dare stop posting, we love hearing what you have to say..... :-)

For example, I totally understand what you're feeling about the docs, this whole "just put 'em on a drug and get them out of our hair attitude".... None of this should have happened to any of us...and because of it, our lives have become worse not better.....and frankly, I now recognize that a large part of my anxiety may be due to all the rage I've been holding inside, with no one to express it to verbally, in colorful and foul language, and in a loud voice....I can't do this with my current doc, even though he's an idiot pill pusher, because I need him to write me the prescriptions for the stuff I need to use to get off cymbalta....I want to make unannounced visits to each and every witch doc I've ever had and do this....preferably with other patients as witnesses....I want to scream from the rooftops...destroy big pharma... :-@

Also, now that my mental clarity is returning,me very time I lay (lie?) down in bed to sleep, my mind is going back through each year of my life on the poison...sequentially it seems...and each time I close my eyes, it dredges up something new and awful, shameful or embarrassing that I did while on it...that I totally had no recollection of....total information overload...all of it making me sadder and angrier and more anxious...because I have no one to vent it all to, to personally confront and hold responsible...yes, I did these things...or, didn't do what I should have done....but I now see that I wasn't even rational or sane....and I now see why we have so many mass murderers, weird crimes, and broken society....these are mostly the people on these drugs....

Yep, I'm angry.....

Gee, that felt good...just writing it to share with my safe little group here ;-)

I'm planning to call Narcotics Anonymous today to see if those of us withdrawing from antidepressants "qualify".... I never got high of the stuff, but I got crazier in many ways....and withdrawal/recovery seems very similar to what I read about hard drugs like crack, heroin and cocaine....and, we're never going to be fully healed...just always in recovery and needing a group of individuals who know what we've been through to support us.....

NA would be the place for us to vent the rage...and help us stay in recovery....I'll make a new topic here telling what I found out....

Now, as to how you're feeling....my thinking is that what you're suffering is still pure cymbalta withdrawal...that is such a horrific overwhelming process and experience ...the first month for me was the depths of hell, second month a bit less hellish,third month some daylight arrived, etc etc....and from what Fishinghat has explained, it sure doesn't seem like the Zoloft build up can compensate for the cymbalta withdrawal....

Also, do the very best you can to get a referral to a therapist....and see them as often as possible...no matter how lousy they are, it's better than nothing....for example, today I'm also going to call the clinic where I have to go and get the earliest possible appointment with their clinical social worker....sad thing is, she's limited to just 15 min appointments as well....

[FiveNotions]

Fishinghat, thank you for the lunesta info....I think it would be important to have it as a new topic....so many of us are or might be using it....

What a total crock of poo.....

I made it through last night without withdrawal...but only got a few hours of sleep....as I said in my rant to inajam, above, every time I close my eyes now I recall something else I did but didn't remember while on cymbalta....my judgment and reasoning were messed up, as well as impulse control, everything....and I had no conscious recognition of what I was doing....and I forgot I did it....

This terrifies me....years and years of this behavior....and no therapist to help me process it....and worse, as a Catholic, I have to confess all this to a priest....I'm hoping he can just give me a "blanket forgiveness" for all these lost years....otherwise, the confession is going to take a year or two. :-(

[inajam]

Inajam, don't you dare stop posting, we love hearing what you have to say..... :-)

For example, I totally understand what you're feeling about the docs, this whole "just put 'em on a drug and get them out of our hair attitude".... None of this should have happened to any of us...and because of it, our lives have become worse not better.....and frankly, I now recognize that a large part of my anxiety may be due to all the rage I've been holding inside, with no one to express it to verbally, in colorful and foul language, and in a loud voice....I can't do this with my current doc, even though he's an idiot pill pusher, because I need him to write me the prescriptions for the stuff I need to use to get off cymbalta....I want to make unannounced visits to each and every witch doc I've ever had and do this....preferably with other patients as witnesses....I want to scream from the rooftops...destroy big pharma... :-@

Also, now that my mental clarity is returning,me very time I lay (lie?) down in bed to sleep, my mind is going back through each year of my life on the poison...sequentially it seems...and each time I close my eyes, it dredges up something new and awful, shameful or embarrassing that I did while on it...that I totally had no recollection of....total information overload...all of it making me sadder and angrier and more anxious...because I have no one to vent it all to, to personally confront and hold responsible...yes, I did these things...or, didn't do what I should have done....but I now see that I wasn't even rational or sane....and I now see why we have so many mass murderers, weird crimes, and broken society....these are mostly the people on these drugs....

Yep, I'm angry.....

Gee, that felt good...just writing it to share with my safe little group here ;-)

I'm planning to call Narcotics Anonymous today to see if those of us withdrawing from antidepressants "qualify".... I never got high of the stuff, but I got crazier in many ways....and withdrawal/recovery seems very similar to what I read about hard drugs like crack, heroin and cocaine....and, we're never going to be fully healed...just always in recovery and needing a group of individuals who know what we've been through to support us.....

NA would be the place for us to vent the rage...and help us stay in recovery....I'll make a new topic here telling what I found out....

Now, as to how you're feeling....my thinking is that what you're suffering is still pure cymbalta withdrawal...that is such a horrific overwhelming process and experience ...the first month for me was the depths of hell, second month a bit less hellish,third month some daylight arrived, etc etc....and from what Fishinghat has explained, it sure doesn't seem like the Zoloft build up can compensate for the cymbalta withdrawal....

Also, do the very best you can to get a referral to a therapist....and see them as often as possible...no matter how lousy they are, it's better than nothing....for example, today I'm also going to call the clinic where I have to go and get the earliest possible appointment with their clinical social worker....sad thing is, she's limited to just 15 min appointments as well....

FN - I honestly don't know atm, with the way i feel about everything, as i have said, i'm not sure what the next step or action is going to be right now for me. I will just have to see what my ''Father'' decides for me I think, as that is my only source of comfort. I am getting support from my friends at church who prayed for me yesterday (feeling emotional just writing that )  Still doesn't stop these feelings of, anxiety, sadness and complete loneliness (that's the worst one it is an awful feeling), which is odd in itself because I know through this site alone that others want to help and are or have suffered the same as me.  But hey that is the way it is for me and i have to tell you how it is, I can't help the way i feel (or the way the Crapalta is making me feel) otherwise there really is no point to anything. I'm not going to lie to you.

 

BTW - I hope you got the PM I sent you?

 

Also, FN - Could you just confirm for me if some of the symptoms i've described, which i put in my last post are correct please?

 

Thanks for caring my friend i do really appreciate it, means a lot even though we are miles apart. I also care about you and your recovery as well and am here should you need to talk, by PM if you wanted to (got emotional just writing that as well )

 

Take care of yourself, inajam

[FiveNotions]

Yes, inajam...all that you describe is what I experienced during the same time period....and many/most of us here....it is our delicate brains and fragile body's way of saying they are trying to rid themselves of the poison...so, in a way, these are good signs....

I don't think you've quite reached the turning point yet....I think perhaps you are putting too much pressure on yourself to feel well again, all at once.....please give your brain and body permission to feel awful, to go through this in their own time and way....it will speed the healing in fact....

You may not realize it, but you have already made huge progress...as I read back over your earlier posts up through now...wow, what a change, and all for the good!

Yep, got the PM and responded....

[thismoment]

inajam

 

Hello 

 

The stomach issues, slurred speech, cognitive impairment, vision impairment, and balance problems are all part of Cymbalta withdrawal. No need to worry- it will all go away.  

 

And your timeline is about right- 5 weeks out. Improvements usually appear between 8- 12 weeks out, but sometimes before that. You just need to hold on- you can't think this away, you just have to put in the time.

 

I understand that this is frustrating and scary- we all get it, and we are right here with you!!

 

Take care.

[fishinghat]

Inajam

 

Good luck with your dr.  Be sure and address the Zoloft issue. 50 mg/day just won't cut it.

 

This is also a chance to get some of that anger out of your system. Maybe then he/she will realize how sick you are and really address the issue.

[FiveNotions]

About the Zoloft....I've now taken 50 mg a day for four days.....I've started feeling jittery yesterday, and have been feeling more so all day today...and, my sleep problem seems to be different than "regular" insomnia....and getting worse....since the night before last....when I close my eyes, in a completely dark room, I still see light...not spots, more like a white screen...and my mind is racing like it's on speed....

I just checked some other drug discussion forums, and found, out of many many comments, just two people who reported these same effects.....on of them was on his 5th day of 50 mg, and said he'd felt this way beginning on day three....another was on 150 mg, for several years.....he said he'd had it too, but it subsided after about a month.....

I couldn't find any info on how long it might take for these side effects to subside....God forbid,if I've got side effects this soon, am I going to have to use titration? Any words of wisdom, Fishinghat?

That does it for me....no more Zoloft! It's a nightmare already happening! :-(

And, so far today, have taken just 1 mg about 11 hours ago....no sign of needing another one.....if this holds good, I'll get myself of it....

If only I had a decent doc or better yet, therapist.....some talk therapy and a bit of Valium likely would have gotten me through this....

[FiveNotions]

Zoloft...from Wikipedia...side effects section excerpt....

Compared to other SSRIs sertraline tends to be associated with a higher rate of psychiatric side effects and diarrhea.[47][48] It tends to be more activating (that is, associated with a higher rate of anxiety, agitation, insomnia, etc.) than other SSRIs, aside from fluoxetine.[49]

Experts note that because of the possible link of akathisia with suicide and the distress it causes to the patient, "it is of vital importance to increase awareness amongst staff and patients of the symptoms of this relatively common condition."[50][51]

http://en.wikipedia....wiki/Sertraline

Note: I also just found anecdotal comments and brief info. On the fact that vision problems are one of the rare side effects....I've got the light behind closed lids thing, blurring and a weird sort of astigmatism....the blurring and astigmatism appeared by Saturday morning, I thought it was the Valium....

Edited by FiveNotions, 09 June 2014 - 03:16 PM.

[FiveNotions]

Interesting chat thread on sertraline withdrawal from another site...which reminds me, I'm on that, not the brand Zoloft...

http://www.depressio...ine-withdrawal/

[inajam]

Zoloft...from Wikipedia...side effects section excerpt....

Compared to other SSRIs sertraline tends to be associated with a higher rate of psychiatric side effects and diarrhea.[47][48] It tends to be more activating (that is, associated with a higher rate of anxiety, agitation, insomnia, etc.) than other SSRIs, aside from fluoxetine.[49]

Experts note that because of the possible link of akathisia with suicide and the distress it causes to the patient, "it is of vital importance to increase awareness amongst staff and patients of the symptoms of this relatively common condition."[50][51]

http://en.wikipedia....wiki/Sertraline

Note: I also just found anecdotal comments and brief info. On the fact that vision problems are one of the rare side effects....I've got the light behind closed lids thing, blurring and a weird sort of astigmatism....the blurring and astigmatism appeared by Saturday morning, I thought it was the Valium....

Not enjoying these facts FN/FH, as I started on Sertraline 50mg five weeks ago coz i thought it would help my anxiety/social anxiety, am concerned now ive made the wrong choice and how it may affect or even worsen my condition.  Not sure what I should do now tbh, stop it and try something else or what.

 

Really worried about this now if im honest.  inajam

[FiveNotions]

Yes, this is very concerning....and I just don't know what to tell you....I'm clearly a newbie to this particular poison....clearly I'm one of the "rare few" who get these effects so rapidly and at such a low dose....my own plan is to not take it tomorrow and see if I go into withdrawal....if yes, then I'll try taking 25 mg....if I can step down that much, wonderful...I won't have to titration....

I'm hoping Fishinghat checks in here soon!

[inajam]

Yes, this is very concerning....and I just don't know what to tell you....I'm clearly a newbie to this particular poison....clearly I'm one of the "rare few" who get these effects so rapidly and at such a low dose....my own plan is to not take it tomorrow and see if I go into withdrawal....if yes, then I'll try taking 25 mg....if I can step down that much, wonderful...I won't have to titration....

I'm hoping Fishinghat checks in here soon!

Tell me about it i'm in a real dilemma now as i have been taking it for weeks and with what i'm already going through if i was to have to make another change and withdrawal etc i don't think i would handle it at all. This is too much for anyone to cope with.  I'm taking a break for a while.

 

inajam 

[FiveNotions]

I'm doing some more research...will post it here...and I'm sure Fishinghat will have sound advice and information.

Hang in there...we'll get this sorted out!

[fishinghat]

FH/IBS

 

Yes the jitteriness and increased nervousness can be caused by Zoloft and yes id does usually fade away in a couple weeks. But to be honest this really sounds more like an lunesta issue. Did you take any last night? Another reason I would lean towards the lunesta is that if the Zoloft was causing it you would have gastric issues as well. Normally with an increase in dosage, say from 25 to 50mg) after about 3 or 4 days you get a rolling stomach and (excuse me for the description) a lot of foul flatulence. I mean like road kill. You don't have this (at least I hope not).

 

If it is from lunesta it will slowly disappear over the next week or two. Luckily you have the valium to lean on.

[fishinghat]

FH/IBS

 

It is not a matter of a wrong choice. Zoloft, like other ssri, has a set protocol for its start up and dose amounts. Your idiot drs did not put either one of you on enough Zoloft to do you any good. The things we have been covering can come from Zoloft BUT if you are reacting to the startup of Zoloft I can almost assure you that you will have the digestive issues.

 

I agree with your view on the 'heck with the Zoloft.' No sense taking it at that dose and yes it sounds like the valium is pretty much taking care of the bulk of your nervousness. If the lunesta is causing these problems you can take diphenhydramine (OTC sleep aide) with your valium at night. It isn't going to cure your insomnia but it will help out til the lunesta problems subside. Be back in a minute. I need to check something out.

[fishinghat]

OK, I did not find any drug interactions between diphenhydramine and Zoloft so that shouldn't be a problem

[fishinghat]

I never heard of water titration for Zoloft. Usually you just shave a certain amount of your tablet each day slowly increasing the amount you shave off every week. If you decide to go this route let me know and I will give you more info.

[FiveNotions]

Thanks, Fishinghat!

I'm off the lunesta since my last dose on Thursday (I finally checked my notes to confirm)....I'm 3 days off....and now in realize I didn't read up on the withdrawal effects...maybe that's the source of my new issues? If so, I'm just going to ride them out...they're not hellish, just really annoying....esp the weird sleep....

I'm also quitting the Zoloft...I'm going to take a risk and not take it tomorrow...if/when withdrawal hits, I'll reinstate and do the "shaving" thing...this is like Carleeta did with ambien?

The Valium I'll keep...but so far today I've taken only that one very early a.m. dose.....and no signs of anxiety....just the jitters, which feel completely different.....

This is the problem with being on multiple meds...a jumble of side effects and withdrawal symptoms that seem, to me at least, impossible to sort out....I've learned my lesson on this...well, yet another lesson in this whole infernal process!

[fishinghat]

I think you have a good plan there FN. I think the valium will cover most of you problems. Good luck my friend.

[FiveNotions]

One last bad side effect possible on sertraline/Zoloft....increased risk of bone fractures...

I already have osteopenia and am taking something for that as well...it says so right in my med chart....

I'd like to take a sledge hammer to this doc's nice Mercedes!

[fishinghat]

Which one? I bet he has a couple.

 

The risk of brittle bones is usually mainly between 6 mths and 12 months. Only 0.28% complained of this condition.

[FiveNotions]

Well, strikes me as a lousy way to find out if you're gonna have that effect...."call us if you fracture a bone" ......

Turns out this guy is the head of psychiatry at the DC prison....he makes huge bucks there....why he was doing this clinic gig I don't know...I wonder how much he earned for just one day a week....for which he didn't always show up.....

[xman]

I didn't see a mention of Welbutrin, as I can't remember the generic, but I am considering introducing it to my body as a last resort. Things have not been going too well. Job stressors, my canine companion of 15 years died, neighbor's dad passed away, need I continue? Life. I am having a difficult time coping but am very hesitant to see my doctor. Do I really want to have another SSRI or whatever chemical altering drug in my brain? No. But I am on the brink of not being able to function and it is showing...