894 replies to this topic

[invalidusername]

Thank you for your kind post, and for putting some positives across. 

 

It would indeed seem, apart from a bit of lingering dizziness, that the physical symptoms have come a long way. I have also had the mental issues soon after the physical symptoms cleared after each drop in dose - although none have been quite this bad before. But there is at least a pattern that I can see. 

 

My lovage always - Scratage

[invalidusername]

'Hat - in need of your thoughts if you would be so kind.

 

Today I started to recognise the feeling I was getting since the start of the week. It was EXACTLY what I was feeling in August 2017 when I was starting up the Citalopram again after cold turkeying. Dread following me 24/7, cannot bring myself to eat, burning on the chest bone - sounds default for depression, but I know this combination well enough. I felt this for about 6-8 weeks from the point I started the 30mg Citalopram (having then been off it for 10 weeks).

 

What concerns me is that I have been back on Citalopram for 8 weeks (2 weeks 10mg, 2 weeks 20mg, 4 weeks 30mg), and I have just got worse. I acknowledge that I did the Duloxetine 10mg to zero over a week, and now 5 days with nothing, but I simply worry that the Citalopram is not going to pull me through this, noting that I relapsed over 15 months ago, and got not better whilst on the Citalopram...

 

I saw the medical team today and explained all this, and they have told me to just carry on for another 6-8 weeks before they consider any medication - either additional, or changing.

 

I can go back to my GP and he will listen, but I would like some advice on whether these first few days of zero can be THAT bad, regardless of a second SSRI? Or just to know how long I can expect this heightened level of psychological problems? And whether there is a point whereby I need to throw the towel in with the Celexa?

[fishinghat]

"I can go back to my GP and he will listen, but I would like some advice on whether these first few days of zero can be THAT bad, regardless of a second SSRI?"

Oh definitely. I am not surprised at all. I also am concerned that the Celexa may not be helping you any but you don't dare stop it or you may get withdrawal from that too. You have definitely been on it long enough. I have seen many who taper slowly and after zero have those type of symptoms for another 4 months or more. You might consider keeping a log of how many hours each day you feel decent. With time you can tell if you are improving. If 12 good hours the first week are followed by 15 good hours the second and 20 hours the third week then you will know you are progressing, slowly, but progressing.

[invalidusername]

Thanks 'Hat. It is good to at least know this is par for the course. Even with the Citalopram.

 

Incidentally, I have been keeping a mood diary since my first CBT session this time around. This is the scientist in me. I always keep track of things. Dare I say, that I even plot graphs from time to time...!!

[juli]

Would an option be to switch out the Citalopram for Lexapro or Zoloft?  Seems like the Citalopram is not much help.

[invalidusername]

DAY 7

 

Bit of a late arrival as I was wrong about the the physical symptoms. Following an iffy nights sleep, I woke to the most horrible brain fog, headache and dizziness. Every time I moved I felt worse. I have been in bed all day. Have fallen going to the bathroom. Had some cereal but have the shakes now so had a tough time getting it in my mouth. I refused the wife's help. I have to do this on my own.

 

Juli - I thought Lexapro would be a good move for me, but the p-doc refuses to change anything while I am on withdrawal. I can sort of see their point, but right now I would do anything to get out of this...

 

My wife has been an angel. I would be so lost without her, but all this has made her anxiety and OCD much worse. I hate what this is doing to her. It is just not fair on her, on me... on all of you here.

 

Week ago I was 10mg (and had been for 4 weeks), then spent a week tapering to 0mg. Now been a week without. I know we are all different, but I would REALLY like thoughts and experience on when I can expect things to start turning around??

[juli]

Juli - I thought Lexapro would be a good move for me, but the p-doc refuses to change anything while I am on withdrawal. I can sort of see their point, but right now I would do anything to get out of this...

 

I don't think that makes any sense.  If you are in horrible withdrawl and want out,  then the doctors should add a new AD to manage the symptoms.  That is protocol for Cymbalta withdrawl.  Can they force you to suffer through this?

[invalidusername]

I expect they are anticipating a withdrawal on top of another withdrawal. Quite how that works I do not know.

 

But I am sure you are right Juli. It really doesn't seem that the Citalopram has worked... at all... for the last year or so. 

 

'Hat has said that I can indeed expect these symptoms in the days after hitting 0mg. But he also agreed that it sounds like Citalopram is not doing its job. I did everything by the book in terms of coming off steady - except for the last 10mg. But as the mental health team took my stash of beads I had no choice once this started to hit....

[juli]

The last 10mg are the absolute worst of it.  IUN I would get on Lexapro or Zoloft to beat the withdrawl.  Those meds are so much easier to get off of.  I can't believe they are so unfamiliar with how massively horrible Cymbalta can be to get off of.

 

Both my and my son's psychiatrists use Lexapro or Prozac to get their patients off of Cymbalta/Effexor/Paxil.

[invalidusername]

"The last 10mg are the absolute worst of it."

 

No kidding. Which is why when the p-doc first said "just stop on 10mg as there is hardly anything left now", I was tempted to ask him just which part of withdrawal did he not understand. I was still not overly happy about jumping down the last 10mg in the space of 6 days.

 

As you say, people use a second SSRI agent to come off this stuff... even when they are stable. The fact that the Citalopram isn't working means that I am more-or-less coming off this with zero support. This, combined with the last few days, scares me witless.

[fishinghat]

Juli - I thought Lexapro would be a good move for me, but the p-doc refuses to change anything while I am on withdrawal. I can sort of see their point, but right now I would do anything to get out of this...

I don't think that makes any sense. If you are in horrible withdrawl and want out, then the doctors should add a new AD to manage the symptoms. That is protocol for Cymbalta withdrawl.

 

Well said Juli, totally agree.

[invalidusername]

OK. I'm listening, and prepared to go around what I have been told by the p-doc. 

 

I told them that I didn't think the Citalopram was working... I mean... why else would I have switched to Duloxetine if the were!!!!

 

So, as far as you guys are concerned, I should have indeed utilised the withdrawal from Duloxetine to make the switch over to Lexapro (or Escitalopram as I know it)??

 

Given that I am now on my 30mg dose of Citalopram, what would be the protocol for now substituting that for the Lexapro??

[fishinghat]

four week taper off the Cymbalta and a concurrent four week installation of Lexapro.

[gail]

fH, do you mean four weeks taper off Citalopram?

And since Citalopram is an SSRI, as Lexapro is,couldn't he just do the switch?
Like when I was on Prozac, switched to Zoloft without tapering the first?

[fishinghat]

IUN said..."I told them that I didn't think the Citalopram was working... I mean... why else would I have switched to Duloxetine if the were!!!!"

So I think he is on Cymbalta. Him and Axle have had drs screw with their meds so much it is confusing.

Some drs do the straight up switch and others do a few week switch over period. I thought maybe with as many med issues as he has had it might be better to do a 4 week taper period to not shock his body as bad. No set answer for this unluckily.

Hmmm, Where is Scrat. Did Scrat scat?

[invalidusername]

I'm here. Apologies for my late appearance. Today has not been good. I have not been able to do anything whatsoever.

 

I woke absolutely petrified of anything and everything. Couldn't speak properly again, head fog and dizziness. Wife had to help me with cereal as I couldn't steady my hand today. Depression set in around 4pm and I have just wanted off this mortal coil.

 

Duloxetine stopped 8 days ago now, still on 30mg Citalopram (have been for 5 weeks now)

 

9th Nov - 60 beads (10mg)

10th Nov - 56 beads

11th Nov - 52 beads

12th Nov - 40 beads

13th Nov - 30 beads (5 mg)

14th Nov - 20 beads

15th Nov - 10 beads

16th - NO DULOXETINE

 

I need to do something before things get (more) out of hand. I will end up at the funny farm.... ad believe me, they are horrific in the UK

[fishinghat]

I was just looking at your weaning schedule. WOW is that fast. You may have to go back to 30 beads just to see if you can stabilize and when you do drop 1 bead a week.

I am glad to hear from you.

[invalidusername]

Yes... and now I don't have any beads at all. The health team took them from me.

 

So would you suggest I switch the Citalopram with the Lexapro still?

 

Or am I to the point that I need to get my beads back.... or both?

 

I'm trying not to exaggerate what I am going thru, but of you know. At least people here listen to me... or don't steal my beads...

[juli]

Seems like it's a bit complicated by the quick weaning off of the Cymbalta. My guess is that the introduction of the Lexapro would start to give some relief and get better as you go up in dose.  Bringing down the Citalopram as you are going up on Lexapro will hopefully stabilize you and in the end, you will be on a med that is easier to come off.

 

Going up on Cymbalta would also achieve your goal of stabilizing.

 

Just my two cents.  I am thinking about you and praying for relief soon.

[invalidusername]

Thanks Juli... your words mean a lot.

 

In order to get the Lexapro, I need to go back to my GP as I sincerely doubt I will be granted anything by the mental health team. They have told me I will have a review in 6-8 weeks. If I have 1 more week like this one - let alone 6-8, I will be severely lost.

 

I have switched from the Citalopram twice before - once to Venlafaxine and then to Cymbalta - both times the switch didn't give me any issues, so I can't see how a switch to Lexapro should be a problem. It can't be any worse than Citalopram...

[gail]

Going back on dulox to stabalize is impossible.The point here is that Scrat never stabalize. Duloxetine made him at times suicidal.

Duloxetine brought a lot of anxiety and depression. Since the beginning.

If waiting for him to stabalize, we will still be here in two years.

Juli, thanks for your post, it needs to be addressed.

[fishinghat]

"Seems like it's a bit complicated by the quick weaning off of the Cymbalta. My guess is that the introduction of the Lexapro would start to give some relief and get better as you go up in dose. Bringing down the Citalopram as you are going up on Lexapro will hopefully stabilize you and in the end, you will be on a med that is easier to come off."

"Going up on Cymbalta would also achieve your goal of stabilizing."

I agree with you entirely Juli. The Lexapro (or any other AD you switch to) is a matter of luck.

I switched to Lexapro once and it did great but when I went through Cymbalta withdrawal and switched to it did not help and I had a bad reaction to it. Go figure. I am not saying not to switch, if things keep going like this you will have to do something and Lexapro, Zoloft or Prozac seem to have the best chance of helping.

 

By the way Juli he went up from 30 to 60 and felt terrible so went back down to 30. Makes me wonder if he is one of those that is sensitive to Cymbalta. Unluckily if your health team won't give you anything (Lexapro, more Cymbalta, etc) it really doesn't matter. What a mess.

[invalidusername]

"Duloxetine brought a lot of anxiety and depression. Since the beginning."

 

Well, yes. It made me very ill, which in turn ran havoc with my health anxiety, which swiftly turned to depression.

 

That said, having gone through this week, those times seemed like bloody paradise!

 

The wife is on Lexapro... maybe I could steal some of her supply in the meantime

[invalidusername]

Getting the lexapro won't be an issue through the GP. It will piss the Mental Health team off no end, but who am I to care after what they have put me through...

[juli]

Yeah, I wouldn't worry about pissing them off.  They don't seem too worried about them off pissing your central nervous system.

 

Lexapro is worth a try right?

[fishinghat]

For sure.

[invalidusername]

Call on Monday to arrange this next step. 

 

The drop was too fast - that is something I cannot change now. Time to move things forward... sooner rather than later.

 

I will report back over the weekend and again when the above is in motion.

 

Thanks y'all and God Bless.

[invalidusername]

I wanted to share an experience I am having when I wake. As soon as I wake. I have perfectly normal rational thoughts, but somehow my brain turns them into a moment of stress or anxiety. It is so heightened, like nothing I have known before. It makes me think I am going crazy. I just think about a cat. My brain then quickly puts pieces together to establish a moment of panic. I had a cat, it died earlier this year, I had to go to the vet, there was so much anxiety involved. Then another comes... every few seconds until I am punching the bed.

 

This has set me up for the day and just cannot stand any more. I know I have plans for Monday, but again, there's a lot of doubt, anticipation and anxiety attached to that too...

[invalidusername]

So, shortly after the above bout of the worst anxiety/stress, I went into a shaking fit and again could not talk properly. At this point, I had really had enough and broke down in tears with my wife holding my convulsing body. 

 

We paged the MH team around 3pm, and they never got back. We had medics out who confirmed that it was the direct result of the quick withdrawal - but of course we know that. They then arranged for me to see another doc at the hospital. So this evening, up I went and waited as best I could only to be told that the hospital could not administer any such medication as they could not intervene with the MH team. For goodness sake!! We paged the MH team again, but STILL no response. 

 

All this stress will not help me. 

 

I really hope the symptoms are peaking this weekend. I really need just a little respite... just a few hours. I can even play angry birds without become anxious because I didn't get three stars. 

 

I've never known anxiety like this! And this is all common for the withdrawal?!?

[fishinghat]

I actually have two dents in my aluminum pontoons on my boat from panic attacks during my withdrawal. I am almost certain it is better to hit your bed than to hit an aluminum pontoon.

I don't even know what to say anymore about your mental health folks in the UK.