469 replies to this topic

[looneytune]

Re the valium/duloxetine combo drop.....seeing doc on Thursday and will be 9 days clear of my last 1mg valium and feeling OK actually......good to go?

[invalidusername]

Does sounds like you are doing a lot better than most... and after 9 days that is a fairly long time for things to come out, but Diazepam does have a long half life, so there may be something lurking but it would have given some indication by now I would have thought....

[looneytune]

Ta IUN 

[fishinghat]

I fully agree with IUN. 

[looneytune]

is this possible.......?

 

Past 10 days severe diarrhoea, again!. At times,most times, I believe I can smell the capsule chemicals coming up from bowl ( I ain't losing it guys)

 

Anything I eat comes straight out. Yesterday, headaches, and today, a bit jittery and headaches......is it at all possible I am losing contents of capsule down the toilet before they get chance to work their magic and I am getting some Duloxetine withdrawals already from losing my shit?  

 

Talkin' colonoscopy prep kinda diarrhoea levels here 

 

 

"Does sounds like you are doing a lot better than most."  

 

^ You really thinks so IUN? tell me more please.........I could really do with all the help I can get and some encouragement would go a LOOOOOOOONG way in helping my ass....other than the wife I am in a LOT of isolation here

[invalidusername]

I really do think that your issues are with the Dulox. I can say this with sincerity as I had the EXACT same thing as you - just look up my previous posts and you will see that I was writing posts JUST the same as you.

 

It was intolerable. It was embarrassing to speak about - but I had to do something. I couldn't stand it.

 

So if I had the same effects as you so quickly as soon as I tapered onto the Dulox, there is no reason why you cannot have had the same thing.

 

In a paper posted in a peer reviewed journal it stated that one in ten people got the shits from this drug. that was with a test involving 115 people. So it is relatively conclusive.

 

I will not forget my days on this drug and I know just how you feel. As you have started the diazepam withdrawal, you need to be careful it dropping the Dulox, but I am quite sure that you will see a different once you have this out of your system, just as I did,

 

IUN

[looneytune]

I am not tapering dulox yet.......i was wondering if valium rebounds after 6 days off them

[looneytune]

Gonna give Benzo buddies a wee look......you two guys are still my main men though 

[looneytune]

I might be sending a pal over....He's just Cold Turkey'd on Duloxetine

[invalidusername]

I am not tapering dulox yet.......i was wondering if valium rebounds after 6 days off them

 

Best thing to do. We will help you as much as we can along the way.

 

Despite being labelled as "cymbata" withdrawal, there is plenty that Hat and myself - and others - are aware of that we can help you with. So we will be happy to help your friend along the way. It is so much better when there is such a wealth of experience rather that an GP who is just taking random guesses!! LOL

 

IUN

[looneytune]

Guys   ^

 

I have no choice but to drop 10mgs of DUL 30 to 20mg ( the diarrhoea clears up at 20mg )

 

It's already been a constant two weeks of shitz so I really have no choice....or fade away down the pan

 

John

[invalidusername]

I can understand completely. It really sounds like it has reached a point.

 

I'd like to think give your joy thus far that this will not be too much of an issue, and it will certainly put you in a better place to have the diarrhoea cleared up. 

 

Keep us posted...

[looneytune]

Ta      Are headaches and also annoying tinnitus ( that I never had before )  a thing with DUL & Diazepam use/withdrawal?

[fishinghat]

Very common.

[looneytune]

saw doc and she gave me 20mg to try stop diarrhoea....can't get 20mg ANYWHERE LOL....she says if runs continue she will specify CYMBALTA for use only as other brands cause me the shitz ...lost another few pounds on scales

 

A few questions for you kind guys if y'all don't mind

 

9 days out from Diazepam taper and stoppage.....

 

1)  Lyin' in bed last night I suddenly got a wee electric shock x2 that appeared to travel an inch or so at left temple vein. Not an deep imbedded sort of shock more a surface of the head type thing......made me go ...woo WTF?  was that likely a brain zap and can I expect them with Diazepam?

 

2) 9 days out from stoppage and it seems to me that the honeymoon period is over and the anxious/jitters is on me more so than at 9 days ago......as that to be expected?

 

3) I have been having temple strain tension headaches for some time now (year or so) and recently noticed that Diazepam clears the headaches up...........doh! could it be that the headaches are the result of diazepam stoppage?   Oh man, this Diazepam is some high class liar and trickster!

 

PS Having moments of clarity and able to see what is needing done to get myself straight...they are fleeting but they are there nonetheless. I never realised or understood the extent of the grip Diazepam has/had on me. Still much confused by everything and will probably not see the truth until I am looking back on it

 

Thanks again guys 

[invalidusername]

"saw doc and she gave me 20mg to try stop diarrhoea....can't get 20mg ANYWHERE"

 

Sorry, don't understand - have you got 20mg or not?!

 

1) All manner of Benzos can cause brain zaps and they can appear anywhere in your head and they can occur for even weeks after withdrawal - are you taking any omega-3? They seem to be the best remedy for most. But the bottom line is that even the medical professionals do not know what they are. No-one knows. Kinda scary that.

 

2) Absolutely. As I said before you have a half life of 2 days... so based on this;

 

2 days - 50%

4 days - 25%

6 days - 12,5%

8 days - 6,25%

 

It is still in your system!! Granted there is circa 5%, but it is still there. By comparison, Dulox leaves your system 4 times quicker, which is why you feel the effects earlier. But as I said, 9 days is quite a while and I would have expected something to show up by the end of the week. But just stay alert as there is a chance your system had extra in other cells, fat reserves etc, so it has taken longer. 

 

3) Diazepam is a strong muscle relaxant and will quite possible help with such headaches - it may be you need to ask your GP for an alternative if they continue..

 

IUN

[looneytune]

Doc gave me prescription for 20mg capsule DUL........not available ANYWHERE and manufactures not got them in stock either

 

Diarrhoea continues at 30mg so gonna have to open capsule and remove approx 1/3 of beads and take 20mg approx

 

whaddya think IUN?

 

PS Missed/forgot to take yesterdays DUL 30 dose by mistake and had quite a crappy day....could one missed cap do that over 24 hours?

[fishinghat]

Removing 1/3 beads is OK but if you are not exact you will pay for it with worse withdrawal. A small set of scales from Amazon would greatly help. There is a scale recommended in the ebook that many have used (including myself).

 

One day missed can cause a significant change in symptoms. Cymbalta has a half-life of around 12 hours so when you miss a dose what is left in your body will be much less by the time of your next dose. Let me give you an example.

 

Let's say you take 30 mg at 8 am on a Monday morning. by 8 pm you will only have 15 mg left in your system and by 8 am on Tuesday morning (when you are scheduled to take the next dose) there is only 7.5 mg left in your system. BUT if you miss that dose then that evening you only have 3.75 mg in your system and by Wednesday at 8 am you will only have 1.8 mg left. On Wednesday morning hopefully you remember to take your next dose. One dose forgotten on Tuesday morning results in a nearly cold turkey withdrawal!!!  Oh yea that can cause issues.

[looneytune]

Hmmm....did I not read here on these sainted pages about someone who actually counted and documented the actual amount of beads in a Duloxetine capsule? i read it somewhere...!

 

Say it was 220 beads per cap it would make the removal of a 1/3 a lot more accurate by just removing 73 beads...no?

[fishinghat]

Boy have we had some serious conversations about that!!!  lol

 

I spent 3 days looking for details on the Cymbalta beads before I found the patents. The bottom line is that the diameter of each bead varies a lot so if you remove 1/3 of the beads there will be a lot of variability in the amount of Cymbalta removed. In addition, the thickness of the enteric coating varies on each bead so if you remove 1/3 the weight the amount of actual Cymbalta removed will vary a lot as well. So whether you go by weight or number of beads the dose will vary some. I would suggest you pick whichever method you feel comfortable with and go for it.

[invalidusername]

Boy have we had some serious conversations about that!!!  lol

 

Absolutely!! So many different pharmas with some many different amounts of beads! 

 

Everything that Hat said is true. There will always be some variability courtesy of the amount of dulox vs. enteric coating and diameter of the bead. There is so much to take into account. So granted it is better to get the right mg capsule, but in the absence of availability, the above is the next best choice, and far better than eyeballing it to get scales.

 

Personally, I would go with simple good-old bead count if math is your strong suit.

 

Remember that 30mg capsules will vary in the amount of beads. One pharam 30mg will have 200 beads, whilst another pharma 30mg will have 150 beads, so you will need to adjust accordingly - to get 20mg, it would be 133 beads for the first, or 100 beads for the second. 

 

The other alternative is to weigh using microscales. 

 

Again, as Hat said, whatever sounds easier for you. Either way it is a pain in the arse!! But is the best way forward.

 

Feel free to ask for help...

 

IUN

[looneytune]

Opinions guys......which is harder to taper and stop after lengthy course on drug.....Duloxetine or Diazepam?

 

Oh, Don't know if I have asked before.....Is Tinnitus associated with Duloxetine use or Dizzypam withdrawal?

 

Duloxetine....the drug that keeps on GIVING

[invalidusername]

Statistically, Diazepam is a tougher withdrawal, but this is very subjective with the regards to the user, the dose, length of time tapering etc. 

 

All you can ask for is opinions. Personally speaking, I have only come off Duloxetine - I am still on a dose of Diazepam, although, it is my intention to withdraw in the New Year, but shall do so over the course of what I expect to be 9-12 months.

 

I wasn't given that choice with the Duloxetine, so my withdrawal from that was horrific. The p-doc took my supply away when I started to have seizures. 

 

He said the reason I was having seizures was because I was taking too long to withdrawal... after 3 weeks. Absolute idiot. I firmly believe that it is because of him that I still have the seizures now. I will no doubt have them for life. I would do time for what I would do to this doctor.

 

Tinnitus - common with all SSRI and SNRI as there are serotonin receptors in the inner ear, so any change in dose could, and does, cause tinnitus.

 

It is also listed as a possible with benzos as well, but from experience, not as common. 

 

Wishing you a good weekend my northern friend,

 

IUN

[looneytune]

IUN...you have my sympathy for the scars you carry due to incompetent Docs....they DO exist you know in much the same way bad plumbers exist

 My Doc is clever and good but she lacks in the withdraw department. I also have a spinal issue that I know for certain I know more about than yer average Joe Blow Doctor

 

Best of luck too for the new year and your Dizzypam mission. If anyone can do it...it's you my friend 

[invalidusername]

Many thanks for the kind words, John...

[fishinghat]

"Opinions guys......which is harder to taper and stop after lengthy course on drug.....Duloxetine or Diazepam?"

 

Well i am going to stick myself out on a limb but would say that Duloxetine is much harder to come off of than Diazepam or any other benzo. The trick with a benzo is called "water titration". By dissolving your benzo doses in water and taking microscopically lower doses each day you can come off a benzo with little or no withdrawal. The bad thing is that it takes as long as 2 or 3 years to come completely off depending on which benzo you are taking and the starting dosage. I have come off benzos 3 times in my early years of anxiety with good success and have helped many others do the same. It does require a lot of patience though.

 

Totally agree with IUN on the subject of tinnitus.

[looneytune]

Is the drop of 10mg DUL 30 to 20 gonna be hard for me? struggling just now with diazepam withdraws as it is but I have just GOT TO stop the diarrhoea

 

this is all too much for me

[looneytune]

Juggling so many symptoms at the one time.....

 

The depression and anxiety and sometimes bed time is not linear but a stop and start "roundabout" of good days/bad days

 

How do I know it's not just a return of depression and anxiety wot got me into the diazepam in the 1st place and nothing to do with withdraws?

[invalidusername]

How do I know it's not just a return of depression and anxiety wot got me into the diazepam in the 1st place and nothing to do with withdraws?

 

Ah - the 64 million dollar question. 

 

Time will tell.

 

But depression and anxiety are ironically symptoms of withdrawal, so yes. Coming off the damn things can see the return of the symptoms of why you went on them in the first place, which is why doctors put their patients back on anti-depressants. This is purely as a result of a quick taper or cold turkey. 

 

Patients withdraw too quickly, go back to the doctor complaining of feeling depressed or anxious again, and they get put on a different drug. Happens all the time - and more often than not, it is as a result of the taper being too quick. This is why we say take time, listen to your body - if you feel symptoms returning - hold, or go back to the last stable dose. Rinse and repeat.

 

Regarding the benzo stuff - I am in no position to argue with my brother Hat here. He has a far greater knowledge of benzos than myself. More than most no doubt.

 

IUN

[looneytune]

Is the drop of 10mg DUL 30 to 20 gonna be hard for me? struggling just now with diazepam withdraws as it is but I have just GOT TO stop the diarrhoea

 

this is all too much for me

this ^