328 replies to this topic

[Noush]

Me too IUN. If I can understand the HOW & WHY something is happening, it helps me. And Hijack away. I think any info posted helps us all anyway!

HAT- My 40mg capsules had an average of 380 beads (I think) before I started to taper. Therefore that's what I have gone back up to. If it's more than the prior amount, it will only be by a couple of beads.

[invalidusername]

"If it's more than the prior amount, it will only be by a couple of beads."

 

Don't want to say it, but without being sure, and with your sensitivity, this might be all that is required?

 

I'm back down to my 3 again! But I just don't know what I did to get the 8 in the first place... why can't it stay at bloody 3!!!

[fishinghat]

IUN

I sort of understand the pregabalin decision by the MH team. It should help with anxiety without too severe a jump in depression. The reaction you had was extreme, especially for that dose.

 

Noush

In that case you should stabilize some in a few days.  (He said hopefully).

[invalidusername]

Well this was their swan-song as they feel there is nothing more that can be done with medication, so I have been discharged. 

 

I feel like a damn guinea pig. 

 

At the very least, MH workers need to preface their medicinal suggestions with precautionary measures and explain the risks further to the patient. It is too easy for sufferers to put their trust in someone who has control of the drugs! 

[Noush]

Cymbalta does poop out. That is possible and when it does you will have withdrawal type symptoms. Unluckily no way to be sure. Definitely adrenaline though I think.

Hat- If Tmthe Cymbalta simply Poops Out, why does this cause Withdrawal type symptoms?

[fishinghat]

Remember Noush, withdrawal is due to the lack of Cymbalta not its presence.  with poop out it is as if there is less  Cymbalta in your body and the raw nerves are trying to cope. . 

[Noush]

Ok, so if it simply Poops Out, it wouldn't necessarily mean that the anxiety/depression that I had 6 years ago is still there & causing the symptoms? Am I understanding right?

[invalidusername]

Correct - it is the imbalance of the chemicals in your brain that is causing it. Neuro receptors are blocked by the Cym where they were once not blocked - the brain is confused as it cannot naturally produce the right amount of serontonin and such. Studies have consistently shown than it is not the lack of chemicals in the brain that causes mental health, more a case of an imbalance. Withdrawal forces our brains into that state after it has learned to balance with the impact of the Cym.

[Noush]

IUN - so when the Cymb stops working & poops out, those Neuro receptors are no longer being blocked? Is that right?

[invalidusername]

No-one truly knows what happens, so difficult to answer. But once blocked, new receptors are made in the brain, which of course takes time. But the brain forgets how to regulate the chemicals whilst on the Cym so the making of the receptors doesn't happen straight away until the brain once again understands what it must do to regulate the various emotions. 

 

This is the issue with Cymbalta, it seems to destroy so much of that information that it takes the brain so long to catalogue that information again.

[Noush]

Remember Noush, withdrawal is due to the lack of Cymbalta not its presence. with poop out it is as if there is less Cymbalta in your body and the raw nerves are trying to cope. .

Ok so if I seem to get these symptoms after a only a 5% drop, would you recommend a cross taper to an SSRI?

[fishinghat]

Oh Noush there are so many many options. You can just drop much slower, you can cross taper to a different antidepressant, of fight it with other prescription drugs or even supplements.

A key point I would like to make is that weaning can be very intolerable BUT changing drugs can be just as bad. For example in my case (and many others) the drs tried many other drugs (that didn't work 6 to be specific) until we finally found a combination that did work. At that point I had to wean off the 6 that didn't work (which I am on the last one now. I started that experience in 2013 and am still working on it. On the other hand some find a good medicine on the first shot and then wean off that later.

[Noush]

Oh Noush there are so many many options. You can just drop much slower, you can cross taper to a different antidepressant, of fight it with other prescription drugs or even supplements.

So I was weaning at 1 bead per week previously. Do you think that going slower than this would make a difference?

Also, is it possible that I could get the withdrawal symptoms at the 5% drop, but then lesser withdrawals from later drops?

[fishinghat]

"So I was weaning at 1 bead per week previously. Do you think that going slower than this would make a difference?"

Possible but that is very slow.

"Also, is it possible that I could get the withdrawal symptoms at the 5% drop, but then lesser withdrawals from later drops?"

No I don't. In all the posts over all the years that has never been reported.

No easy answer I am afraid.

There is a section in the Summary of Cymbalta Withdrawal that is a list of recommended blood tests. These tests often reveal imbalanced in the persons system that makes the withdrawal a lot worse. Things like thyroid issues, electrolyte imbalances, hormone imbalances, and many more. I would suggest you consider that as an option.

[Noush]

I did have full blood tests about 6 months ago & all were fine. If I go ask my GP for bloods checking just in case, without any troubling symptoms, they won't do them. Unfortunately, it doesn't work that way over here.

I think that I am definitely leaning towards a cross taper. As on three occasions now, as soon as I have got to the 5% drop mark, I have started with insomnia, racing heart and dizziness. Following by anxiety & very low mood.

[fishinghat]

Reasonable. Is there a particular antidepressant that has worked well for you in the past?

[KathyInFL]

So I was weaning at 1 bead per week previously. 

 

How many beads are in a capsule? My 60mg had about 600 plus or minus, that would have taken over 10 years to taper!     

 

Do you have the C with the 6 little pills in the capsule? I had them one time.

[Noush]

Cymbalta is the only antidepressant that I have ever been on. I have never suffered with anxiety/depression prior to postnatal depression which I suffered when my son was born 7 years ago. I did try a few different antidepressants prior to Cymbalta, but stopped each within a week due to start up side effects. So didn't really give them chance I guess. I was too anxious at the time.

[Noush]

How many beads are in a capsule? My 60mg had about 600 plus or minus, that would have taken over 10 years to taper!

Do you have the C with the 6 little pills in the capsule? I had them one time.

Hi Kathy. I have 40mg capsules with an average of 380 beads in.

[invalidusername]

A good point by Kathy there. 1 bead is an ambiguous amount. 1 bead for brand "a" can be 10 beads for brand "b".

 

Noush please don't forget that Hat's situation is probably the worst ever possible, and the likelihood of this with yourself is slim to none, but it is unfortunate that what he says is correct insomuch that finding something to aid the recovery is a lottery. Personally, I am staying clear of medication as best I can now - unless it is absolutely necessary. 

 

If you do decide to cross-taper, a long half life choice is going to be the way - prozac, citalopram, lexapro... But you could try with an anti-h or benzo for more immediate response, but you still need to come off those in time. It is only a choice that you can make - with our help. I say "you" as it is your body, your life - our doctors over here are so overworked and have no time to read bulletins and papers, so they know the square root of jack s**t about what they prescribe. 

[Noush]

IUN - What is an Anti-h?

[invalidusername]

Anti Histamine

 

Hydroxyzine and so forth

 

oooh - head zap - where'd that come from?

[PrincessNutella]

oooh - head zap - where'd that come from?

It's time to relax IUN

Noush, I am cross tapering in a sense with Zoloft, and if done correctly, it can be helpful. I think you are sensitive to meds if your previous attempts with AD's were like you said.

[fishinghat]

I would add Zoloft to that list of antidepressants.

[Noush]

HAT - Zoloft (Sertraline) is one that I never tried. Maybe this is one that I should try to cross taper with if my GP doesn't think Lexapro is a good option.

Ozgun - I think I am extremely sensitive to medication & dosage changes. With that in mind, would you think that cross tapering to another antidepressant would be a good choice for me or simply trying to wean off with other medication to assist?

[PrincessNutella]

Would you think that cross tapering to another antidepressant would be a good choice for me or simply trying to wean off with other medication to assist?

That's the million dollar question. I think cross tapering is the safer option due to having one mechanism (serotonin reuptake) in control of another med, and reducing the stress on the body while adapting (norepinephrine reuptake). Cymbalta controls both, but SSRIs control one, you know.

[Noush]

Ozgun - Would you have an ideal cross taper schedule from 40g Cymbalta to Sertraline?

[PrincessNutella]

I was going to come up with one, but I went through this thread and you don't respond well to drops at all. I am stumped. You had to reinstate multiple times, right?

[invalidusername]

I am tempted to agree with Oz on the way forward to balance out your serotonin level while the lack of norepinephrine is balancing out.

 

It is going to be a difficult one to foresee due to the issue with the Cym, but I am sure you will be much better once off it 

[Noush]

Oz - that's right. Whenever I have reached the 5% decrease Mark, I have got withdrawal symptoms. It seems like 5% reduction is the point where my body/brain realises it is getting less Cymbalta.